Libertarianism in Ancient China | by Murray N. Rothbard

Rudd-O

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Quote from: benjamindees on November 27, 2012, 08:04:22 PM

Quote from: cunicula on November 25, 2012, 03:23:26 AM

Now ask yourself: If Cunicula likes Daoist philosophy, could Daoist philosophy be libertarianism?

With the number of times I've seen you misconstrue libertarianism before on this forum, the answer is undoubtedly yes.

Cunicula, from what I have experienced in this forum, could see a melanoma and say "Ahhhh!!!!!111ONE!! That's a symptom of libertarianism!!!!". He's the standard troll who has nothing going on for him but astroturfing, FUD, and hate for things he doesn't understand and has made no effort to understand. I sort of know what his priors are, and they're all standard signs of early child abuse, implanted in his brain way before he could develop rational defenses against them.

benjamindees

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Quote from: cunicula on November 25, 2012, 03:23:26 AM

Now ask yourself: If Cunicula likes Daoist philosophy, could Daoist philosophy be libertarianism?

With the number of times I've seen you misconstrue libertarianism before on this forum, the answer is undoubtedly yes.

Rudd-O

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I loved this article. Post more.

cunicula

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Quote from: stochastic on November 25, 2012, 04:24:07 AM

Quote from: cunicula on November 25, 2012, 04:06:44 AM

Quote from: stochastic on November 25, 2012, 03:44:55 AM

Didn't Caocao destroy the taoist rebellion?

I don't know. I don't go in for the historical/mystical/mythical part of it. I am only interested in the philosophers (Laozi, Huizi, Zhuangzi).

You'll find some relevant historical information here though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_the_Five_Pecks_of_Rice

Quote

Way of the Five Pecks of Rice (Chinese: 五斗米道; pinyin: Wǔ Dǒu Mǐ Dào) or the Way of the Celestial Master, commonly abbreviated to simply The Celestial Masters, was a Chinese Taoist movement founded by the first Celestial Master Zhang Daoling in 142 CE. At its height, the movement controlled a theocratic state in the Hanzhong valley, north of Sichuan. In 215 CE, the state was incorporated into Cao Cao's Kingdom of Wei, and followers of the Celestial Master were dispersed all over China.

It seems that the theocracy submitted to Cao Cao in exchange for Cao Cao's acceptance of Daoism as a state religion with supreme religious authority vested in the hereditary ruler.

As you can see, the whole thing just oozes with libertarian ethos. Murray Blowhard was really on to something!

It is always ok to fudge history for the sake of argument, right?

Their libertarianism can really be seen in their belief in qi and how they would use prepubescent girls to create the most jing.

Anyway, I thought the video was referring to the Yellow Turban Rebellion in China, but it seems they were different Taoists rebels and different Zhangs too.

Sorry, I didn't actually watch the video. Can't stomach Murray Blowhard and my flash player is completely broken.

stochastic

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Quote from: cunicula on November 25, 2012, 04:06:44 AM

Quote from: stochastic on November 25, 2012, 03:44:55 AM

Didn't Caocao destroy the taoist rebellion?

I don't know. I don't go in for the historical/mystical/mythical part of it. I am only interested in the philosophers (Laozi, Huizi, Zhuangzi).

You'll find some relevant historical information here though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_the_Five_Pecks_of_Rice

Quote

Way of the Five Pecks of Rice (Chinese: 五斗米道; pinyin: Wǔ Dǒu Mǐ Dào) or the Way of the Celestial Master, commonly abbreviated to simply The Celestial Masters, was a Chinese Taoist movement founded by the first Celestial Master Zhang Daoling in 142 CE. At its height, the movement controlled a theocratic state in the Hanzhong valley, north of Sichuan. In 215 CE, the state was incorporated into Cao Cao's Kingdom of Wei, and followers of the Celestial Master were dispersed all over China.

It seems that the theocracy submitted to Cao Cao in exchange for Cao Cao's acceptance of Daoism as a state religion with supreme religious authority vested in the hereditary ruler.

As you can see, the whole thing just oozes with libertarian ethos. Murray Blowhard was really on to something!

It is always ok to fudge history for the sake of argument, right?

Their libertarianism can really be seen in their belief in qi and how they would use prepubescent girls to create the most jing.

Anyway, I thought the video was referring to the Yellow Turban Rebellion in China, but it seems they were different Taoists rebels and different Zhangs too.

cunicula

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Quote from: stochastic on November 25, 2012, 03:44:55 AM

Didn't Caocao destroy the taoist rebellion?

I don't know. I don't go in for the historical/mystical/mythical part of it. I am only interested in the philosophers (Laozi, Huizi, Zhuangzi).

You'll find some relevant historical information here though:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Way_of_the_Five_Pecks_of_Rice

Quote

Way of the Five Pecks of Rice (Chinese: 五斗米道; pinyin: Wǔ Dǒu Mǐ Dào) or the Way of the Celestial Master, commonly abbreviated to simply The Celestial Masters, was a Chinese Taoist movement founded by the first Celestial Master Zhang Daoling in 142 CE. At its height, the movement controlled a theocratic state in the Hanzhong valley, north of Sichuan. In 215 CE, the state was incorporated into Cao Cao's Kingdom of Wei, and followers of the Celestial Master were dispersed all over China.

It seems that the theocracy submitted to Cao Cao in exchange for Cao Cao's acceptance of Daoism as a state religion with supreme religious authority vested in the hereditary ruler.

As you can see, the whole thing just oozes with libertarian ethos. Murray Blowhard was really on to something!

stochastic

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Didn't Caocao destroy the taoist rebellion?

cunicula

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Okay, here is another argument Cheesy

. I actually like Daoist philosophy. I have even read some Daoist texts in the original Classical Chinese (not my native language).
I have even quoted Daoist philosophers to counter libertarian arguments in another thread. https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.1332148

Now ask yourself: If Cunicula likes Daoist philosophy, could Daoist philosophy be libertarianism? Isn't this a surefire indication that good old Murray Blowhard has made a little mistake?

benjamindees

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Quote

The word Judo is fascinating because it means Ju- the gentle, do- way. Do is the Japanese way of pronouncing the Chinese Tao, and so it is the gentle Tao, the philosophy of the Tao as applied to self defense. Now this philosophy has various components, and one of the most basic things to the whole practice of Judo is an understanding of balance. Balance, indeed, is a fundamental idea in Taoist philosophy. The philosophy of the Tao has a basic respect for the balance of nature. You don't upset that balance. You try to find out what it is and go along with it. In other words you avoid such mistakes as the wholesale slaughter of an insect pest, of the introduction of rabbits into a country like Australia without thought as to whether the rabbit has a natural enemy, because through such interference with the balance of nature you find yourself in trouble. So the philosophy of balance is the number one thing that all students of Judo have to learn.

http://judoinfo.com/watts.htm

cunicula

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Quote from: asdf on November 24, 2012, 06:07:56 AM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKWOUu1BA3U

Taoists figured it out ages ago. Wu Wei; action without action.

Do you know what the practical reality of Daoism in China was?

I will tell your fortune for $10k, you can get rich if you pay me $20k, and you can talk to your dead relatives for $30k, and I will extend your life for ten years for $100k.

Strong statist rulers like Zhu Yuanzhang swung the State's ban hammer at this crap for good reason.

I suppose the early Christians figured out libetarianism too? Cue Moonshadow to tell us about it.

[Note: Of course it is a gross perversion to equate the Dao De Qing with libertarianism, but let's ignore that for the moment.]

asdf

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKWOUu1BA3U

Taoists figured it out ages ago. Wu Wei; action without action.

Topic: Libertarianism in Ancient China | by Murray N. Rothbard (Read 1355 times)