Lightning Network transactions successfully tested on Bitcoin mainnet

marky89

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Quote from: jseverson on December 06, 2017, 10:35:36 PM

Quote from: Iranus on December 06, 2017, 05:52:35 PM

Most major companies have been pretty far behind in terms of BTC development. The vast majority of recent transactions have still been legacy transactions rather than SegWit transactions, and most of the major services have not implemented SegWit yet despite the fact that there have been relatively stable releases in TREZOR and a couple of other wallets which have implemented it.

The Lightning Network may take an even longer time.

I doubt that we'll be seeing the full effects of the Lightning Network until a year or two from now, and by then this bull market is fairly likely to have subsided.

Hopefully the Lightning Network will develop well with a more peaceful environment and a more stable price, so that it can be used well by merchants later.

Well, there are still people who believe that everything should be verified on chain. That's really all that's holding Segwit back at this point. It's ready for adoption. Resistance is so strong that Bitcoin Cash was born, and it's actually gaining and maintaining its ground.

Segwit does verify everything on chain. Pre-Segwit nodes don't verify witness data, but they do verify Segwit transactions against the consensus rules and they are able to process them. Lightning will bring lots of transactions off-chain, which is actually great for privacy. It's a different trust model, sure, but the technology is sound. I just wouldn't keep more than 1 BTC locked into channels.... and I would consider that a very long term spending wallet.

Regarding slow adoption, I think it's more so a political stance that some companies are taking because they want massive scale now and they want capacity upgrades as needed. Mike Belshe (BitGo) comes to mind. They don't want to wait years for robust Layer 2 systems to come to fruition. I'm guessing that there is also pressure from shareholders who value company growth above the good of Bitcoin.

The Bitcoin Cash price is in a death spiral vs. Bitcoin, and it's really just backed by a few big players like Roger Ver and Jihan Wu. It managed to co-opt most of the Bitcoin Unlimited camp, but that was a pretty small community already.

chip211

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This is what makes bitcoin mad in the last days. Increasingly more and more bureaucrats accept bitcoin and its value increases day by day.

jseverson

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Quote from: Iranus on December 06, 2017, 05:52:35 PM

Most major companies have been pretty far behind in terms of BTC development. The vast majority of recent transactions have still been legacy transactions rather than SegWit transactions, and most of the major services have not implemented SegWit yet despite the fact that there have been relatively stable releases in TREZOR and a couple of other wallets which have implemented it.

The Lightning Network may take an even longer time.

I doubt that we'll be seeing the full effects of the Lightning Network until a year or two from now, and by then this bull market is fairly likely to have subsided.

Hopefully the Lightning Network will develop well with a more peaceful environment and a more stable price, so that it can be used well by merchants later.

Well, there are still people who believe that everything should be verified on chain. That's really all that's holding Segwit back at this point. It's ready for adoption. Resistance is so strong that Bitcoin Cash was born, and it's actually gaining and maintaining its ground.

It's also worth noting that while Segwit isn't necessary for the Lightning Network, it's critical for the malleability issue. Lightning Network will only be at its best if everyone starts using Segwit.

ladadadiweliketoparty

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Awesome I couldn't be more glad to hear this news about Bitcoin Core. It will finally put an end to all these dubious forks that have been happening of late. One that will especially die real quick is the "Lightning Bitcoin" which aimed to speed up Bitcoin transactions. To you I say goodbye, see you later or never I don't really care

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ebliever

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Some good information here:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/7hzdda/lightning_protocol_10_compatibility_achieved/

And here's a good place to start:
http://lightning.network/

Here's another good paper, considering ways to overcome LN shortcomings:
https://www.tik.ee.ethz.ch/file/a20a865ce40d40c8f942cf206a7cba96/Scalable_Funding_Of_Blockchain_Micropayment_Networks%20(1).pdf

No wonder Bitcoin is spiking. Exciting times!

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Quote from: aanbudi on December 06, 2017, 06:19:20 PM

Good Experiment. But whether the method can save transaction fees Bitcoin? I am very layman with Lightning Network technology.

That's the idea, but we're probably many months (or more) from that point. There are no working wallets yet. Lightning developers have established the final specs/rules for the network, which is a major milestone. Previously none of the implementations were compatible. Now that there is a standard, they can start building wallets for public use.

Regarding fees.... Once the Lightning Network is up and running, Lightning transactions won't require on-chain confirmations to be secure. Users will likely pay much lower fees because they aren't competing for block space anymore. Instead, they are paying LN nodes/hubs to propagate their transactions across the network.

It's sort of unclear to me how routing among channels will work, but I'll save that discussion for another day.

aanbudi

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Good Experiment. But whether the method can save transaction fees Bitcoin? I am very layman with Lightning Network technology.

marky89

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Quote

We bought a Starblocks coffee and a http://yalls.org article.

I take it that Starblocks is just a fake/gimmick merchant, but it seems like yalls.org is real! I thought it was just a fake merchant for demonstrative purposes, but someone pointed out to me that it's a Lightning Network alternative to yours.org (which has pivoted away from Bitcoin and towards Bcash). Awesome!

I'm also excited about BTCPay, a drop-in replacement for BitPay, as BitPay also seems to be embracing Bcash.

The ecosystem is really evolving and offering users, merchants and services more options vis-a-vis Segwit/Lightning vs. Bcash/altcoins. I'm really excited to see how LN hitting the mainnet will affect on-chain transactions volumes. I'm also curious to see if it will take some of the luster away from altcoins (like Bcash) whose primary feature is fast, cheap transactions.

illinest

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Quote from: Iranus on December 06, 2017, 05:52:35 PM

Most major companies have been pretty far behind in terms of BTC development. The vast majority of recent transactions have still been legacy transactions rather than SegWit transactions, and most of the major services have not implemented SegWit yet despite the fact that there have been relatively stable releases in TREZOR and a couple of other wallets which have implemented it.

The Lightning Network may take an even longer time.

Implementing Segwit doesn't take much developer resources, according to most developers. Companies like Coinbase and Blockchain.info not implementing Segwit is more of a political statement than anything. It should also be noted that Segwit alone doesn't bring that much benefit (only ~2x in fee savings).

It's the post-Segwit features and infrastructure that are really ground-breaking, and those take time to develop. Once the Lightning Network is working on mainnet, there is much more incentive for services to integrate LN payments for their customers. The fee savings will be great enough that I believe users will definitely default to exchanges/payment processors/merchants that support the Lightning Network. Notably, Blockchain.info has an LN implementation (Thunder).

Quote from: Iranus on December 06, 2017, 05:52:35 PM

I doubt that we'll be seeing the full effects of the Lightning Network until a year or two from now, and by then this bull market is fairly likely to have subsided.

I agree that it'll probably still be a year or more before LN starts seeing noteworthy transaction volume. There are lots kinks to work out and there is no software available yet for end users. As for price? This rally will have subsided by then, but I'm doubtful that the bull market will be done with.

Iranus

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Most major companies have been pretty far behind in terms of BTC development. The vast majority of recent transactions have still been legacy transactions rather than SegWit transactions, and most of the major services have not implemented SegWit yet despite the fact that there have been relatively stable releases in TREZOR and a couple of other wallets which have implemented it.

The Lightning Network may take an even longer time.

I doubt that we'll be seeing the full effects of the Lightning Network until a year or two from now, and by then this bull market is fairly likely to have subsided.

Hopefully the Lightning Network will develop well with a more peaceful environment and a more stable price, so that it can be used well by merchants later.

squatter

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STOP SNITCHIN'

According to Lightning Labs, ACINQ and Blockstream, Lightning transactions are now being tested on the live Bitcoin network. Notably, this means that several different Lightning software implementations are now interoperable, which was a major development hurdle to overcome. The specifications for version 1 of the Lightning Network are now established standards.

Quote

We bought a Starblocks coffee and a http://yalls.org article.

It's definitely a major step in bringing the Lightning Network closer to reality, although there is still much work to be done. Before Bitcoin users can start using LN, the developers of the various LN implementations need to produce beta software for the mainnet. From the Coindesk article:

Quote

In conversation, Lightning developers stressed there are kinks left to work out with the user experience before they recommend businesses adopt it. Padiou argued that this cautious approach to development shows developers are making sure they get the technology just right, so as to eliminate the chance of users losing funds.

"It also demonstrates the approach has been very conservative. We're not going to rush anything," he told CoinDesk, adding: "We're almost there."

Topic: Lightning Network transactions successfully tested on Bitcoin mainnet (Read 379 times)