Topic: Linux without windows (Read 934 times)

You don't technically need a distribution at all-- you can go fetch all the components, and build all the parts--- and run your entire system yourself.

But, presumably, you'd like to do something more with your life than just maintain your computer.

The reason distributions exist is so that we can outsource the effort of assembling and maintaining our systems.  Unfortunately, as with all outsourcing, the tremendous amount of time saved comes with some costs.

I started using Linux full time with SLS. That original system I manually upgraded myself from across several libc versions and eventually to glibc and from aout to elf.  I learned a lot, but mostly what I learned is that maintaining a whole OS yourself is a lot of work.    I've run many other distribution but after RH5 or so I ran RH (and later fedora) mostly.

When Fedora started doing more things I disagreed with (gnomeifying everything backing MSFT-signed 'secure boot', etc.) I switched to gentoo.  Unfortunately, gentoo maintenance has significantly died (esp after google hired off most of the most active developers).  And without vigorous maintenance a distribution is pointless. I'm back to running fedora on most systems again.

If a distribution does something you don't like, you can work around it.  If it's too much trouble to work around--- did you really dislike it that much?  Life is too short to waste too much time time on OS maintenance/customization.

My recommendation is to pick a distribution *widely used* with an active and not-shrinking user community. Change the things you must, don't waste your time on the minor issues that you can just ignore.  Understand that outsourcing your system maintenance is a phenomenal benefit but it comes with a cost that not everything will be exactly how you want it all the time.  It's well worth that cost.

I'm no complete n00b when it comes to software etc., but I had never heard about this before you mentioned it. This is friggin' impressive, one of the best discoveries of the year, man! I installed this on a CD-ROM (yes I still have some) and it works perfectly (sadly not from a USB stick at the moment) on my old laptop. This helps a lot for those small lightweight programs which I didn't get to run on Linux Wine.

Have you tried this yourself, JC? I haven't had the time to test the printer yet. Anyone else any experiences?

you can compile it anywhere you like, but my advice would be to put it somewhere in your user directory to keep things separate. then copy the bitcoind (and probably bitcoin-cli too) executables to /usr/bin (some people say it should be /usr/sbin, but it doesn't seem so important to me). then, the bitcoind.openrc script file goes in /etc/init.d, chmod it so it can execute, then rc-service bitcoind start (change the name from bitcoind.openrc to bitcoind first). you can add bitcoind to start-up with rc-update add bitcoind default (or to a different startup group to default, if you want)

dependencies huh? looking at the libraries I installed on my Bitcoin build VM, I have:

g++
autoconf
libtool
pkgconfig
libzmq5
libboostprogram-options-dev
libboost-chrono-dev
libbboost-date-time-dev
libboost-atomic-dev
libboost-thread-dev
libssl-dev
libevent-dev
protobuf-compiler

those ^^^ libraries are the Debian package names, so you'll need to find the equivalent name according to how Alpine has that particular code packaged. the protobuf one may prove annoying.

the -dev suffix is important for the boost libraries. and the version is important, there is a minimum version for boost (something like 1.60, typically more than one version of boost libs is available), but a maximum version for others. But for those with maximum versions, all the dependencies are bundled with the .git repo, as alot of them are part of the consensus rules and that's sensitive to change. that includes the annoying BDB 4.8 dep, which took me ages to figure out was part of the bundled deps.



and if you aren't using the GUI (I'd assume not), do ./configure --help to find the option that disables building the GUI, then you can avoid getting all the qt dependencies as well, which are entirely for the GUI and nothing else.

Yeah I think it got stuck trying to install the dependencies and I got stuck because there weren't any tutorials 🤣.

Is it all in the init folder that I need to compile it (or at least directions for compiling it)?

hmm. well it should be the same on everything really. you need that old version of BDB for the wallet, or you could just do ./configure --disablewallet and then that's not a dependency at all.

also, service files are different on Alpine, more configurable. https://github.com/bitcoin/bitcoin/tree/master/contrib/init has what you need, look at the the .openrc files

remember the error where it got stuck compiling?

Have you ever installed bitcoin core on alpine? That was what I'd struggled with but I struggled with it on all Linux (until I realised compiled files were in the directory I ran make in normally)... That was the thing I needed the docker for.
And yeah, tbh I have 2 drives that fit that laptop so it might just be easier to switch between them instead.

I'll probably take a look at trying to dual boot over the Christmas break. I don't think I have anything that can't be deleted so it should let me run them both but failing that I'll use 2 hard drives.

Are you dual booted with something (I assume you'd have arch or alpine and then post here with something else)?

something in your grub.cfg file that sounds like. It's hard, the recommendation is to let automated grub-mkconfig handle it by reading from /etc/default/grub, but if you look at /boot/grub/grub.cfg, it might seem more obvious what the problem is, might help with figuring out what parameters to put into /etc/default/grub. I know though, it's more trouble than it's potentially worth as it risks breaking the part that does work. I bet you could get it working when you get a good opportunity to try it out again



right, I've never bothered with docker. lxc might be more intuitive, although I've never tried that either!

glad to hear you stuck with Alpine though. it's kinda challenging to have to deal with an all cli interface, so choosing something tough and keeping going is good for the keyboard skills

Ahh hi.

I dual booted an old laptop with alpine and Ubuntu but couldnt seem to access the alpine bit (I definitely did it wrong).

The docker stuff still seems really confusing I might have to turn to the 700mb debian os (without the desktop) to try to bypass that (I'm thinking dockers might slow everything down when trying to run core - other than that I've been happily live booting alpine when I have programming to do and then saving it to a drive once it's done which is great because its really fast!)

how did this end up jack? did you get on with Alpine? It has a great reputation as a minimal distro, be interesting to hear more.

I think I found the cause of the issue. I haven't yet done this https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Local_APK_cache#Enabling_Local_Cache

I recommend the opposite:


Red Hat (who make Fedora and Centos) are abusing their position in the Linux world. They're recreating important parts of Linux (init, desktop, device interface etc) in a way that forces you to use all their stuff.

The sensible way is to make components that are small, and compatible with alternatives. Red Hat are doing the opposite, making huge system components that force everyone else to become compatible with them (and lots of Linux software and distros are going along with this).

This approach makes it much harder to change bad software for good software, because the bad software is such a fundamental part of Linux underlying everything else


Don't use Red Hat's stuff, or anything else that uses Red Hat's stuff, there are better designed alternatives with smaller, better code (and hence fewer bugs) that don't lock you into their way of doing things.

Linux is like cryptos my friend, The code will work as the coder decide, so, the thing here is Who is behind the OS, if you want to invest in some tokens created with a smart contract then go for distros like Alpine, Puppy, or others... If you want coins with big features like BTC, ETH or Monero, then go for distros like Ubuntu, Fedora or Slack.

I would recommend you to give a try to fedora, it could be an empty and clean OS, or an OS who compete with Windows and MacOS.

Let me show you some screenshots about how had i configured my Fedora, for me, this is the best OS in 2019, i can do everything with it.


Full gallery: https://imgur.com/a/gbJzIS0

So, here is a great tutorial about the steps to follow after install fedora to configure your server (It's in Spanish but the commands works for any language):
https://www.yocupicio.com/que-hacer-despues-de-instalar-fedora-29/

And the SPIN i recommend is the MATE one because it use GNOME 2.*

https://spins.fedoraproject.org/mate-compiz/

I really hate Ubuntu. Debian is equally as bad.. My debian I installed a few years ago came with jdk1! I'm pretty sure it is a package older than me .

Open source apps are great but they come with a lot of vulnerabilities and not updating something in 30 years or however long it was just sounds like they're asking for trouble and I need something secur and something lightweight. Arch has some good support too though.

You should try a friendly version of linux... I have used Fedora and Centos for the past years but as almost each linux user I started with Ubuntu. Ubuntu has a great community and great support to fix any issue you have is a great option to start, but if you want to manage your OS as the same way as you work with your servers, then fedora is the way, and that's because a big % of the servers runs with Centos... Centos and Fedora come from Red Hat, and that means they can be used as the same way with Command line.

I'm stuck with my install of alpine Linux. Anyone who suggested it or knows something about it please help. I'm getting an error like this https://github.com/gliderlabs/docker-alpine/issues/207.

My /etc/apk/repositories file has just https://nl.alpinelinux.org/alpine/ in it

I'm revisiting this idea but can't find any guides to install alpinelinux onto my computer.

I've spent the day emptying a 1tb hard drive (as i bought the wrong sized one from amazon - no I got the inches right but didn't realise there was a slimtype and full type). I now have it in my old laptop and am copything a disk of alpine linux onto my pendrive in order to boot to it, anyone know how I can permenantly install it on that hard drive?

EDIT: I think I've found it but it has this warning (the drive is empty though):




If anyone wants it it is here: https://wiki.alpinelinux.org/wiki/Install_to_disk

This may be interesting to you.




https://hookrace.net/blog/linux-desktop-setup/

I have been a Linux user from the past 17 years, and i have thought about this topic a lot. So lets focus on two points here. What distro and what you can do with it.

For distro i have 2 options for you. First one is Ubuntu Server and the Second One would be Centos. Both of them comes without gui. So both are perfect for this.

And now, what can you do with it? Well, here you have some useful tools:


So, you can do tons of things without Gui.

So if you decide to try it, i would recommend you to take a look to this site, here you will find the best command lines for your OS https://www.commandlinefu.com/

It's actually pretty to easy to end up with a non-graphical system.  In the debian installer, just don't select the desktop environment task.

(https://www.debian.org/releases/stable/i386/ch06s03.html.en see 6.3.5.2. Selecting and Installing Software)

That said, if you want to boot into an xserver and still be very keyboard driven, tiling window managers like i3 (as pointed out by Anduck) can be quite wonderful.

Also, Carlton Banks nailed it when it comes to the popular linuxes.  If you really want to get into rolling your own, you could try the linux-from-scratch method (warning: not for the faint of heart).

Arch Linux.

I'd guess something like i3 would interest you. https://i3wm.org/

I use LMDE (Linux Mint Debian Edition) and generally run Raspbian on pi's

I've used Lubuntu where a lightwieght desktop was required.

Mint provides other editions with the Cinnamon desktop, MATE desktop and  Xfce desktop

Right, BSD is another minimalist option (technically not Linux, but superficially there are many similarities). There are multiple distributions of BSD to pick, derived from 2 main projects: FreeBSD and OpenBSD.

Downsides are similar to Gentoo, Alpine or Slackware: uber-minimal, so alot of skill & knowledge needed, and not always well documented to help you get there. Additional downside is hardware compatibility, you can't expect brand new (or even just very recent) computers (or peripherals) to work with BSD, the projects developing BSD distros don't have the same amount of resources to do the necessary work to get the same range of hardware working as exists for Linux.

Upside is that you'll be skillful and knowledgeable once you can handle BSD, and BSD is a secure choice

Well hell, if you want to go really extreme, it isn't really Linux, but it is Unix based.

You can install OpenBSD without GUI, it is easy to install, but I am not sure that there is much you can do with it with a default install.

I mean if you don't want a GUI, I already doubt that you want an Internet browser on it, so it might be something for you.

The system is extremely secure and very minimalistic. You can run Bitcoin Core on it, I run a Bitcoin Core node on OpenBSD without GUI, but I never really considered it as a general purpose PC. A bit too extreme for me.

EEEeee. Red Hat distro's have their upsides, but really the negatives outweigh the positives. Red Hat and Canonical are similar; corporate software's attempt to turn Linux into something they can dominate. I was hesitant to recommend Debian at all because of Canonical's bad influence on it's development (but settled with just making it a negative point in it's own right)

Ubuntu, Mint, Fedora and CentOS all come with undesirable software that work in Red Hat/Canonical's commercial interests, not in the users interests.



I am embarrassed to have forgotten perhaps the most minimal of all, Slackware.

This post is more about windows without Windows, but it may be relevant for some.

Recently I've watched a few videos about ReactOS - https://www.reactos.org/
and I think it is an interesting project. They seem to have created a product that is similar to Windows 7, and it runs most Windows software in native mode, It doesn't contain the spyware and the forced updates that have driven me away from Windows 10. I'm tempted to dig out an old Notebook, and try it out.

You certainly can install a system with just cli (command line interface) and it will work just fine.

For example Debian would be a good choice.

The biggest problem with cli system is configuring wifi. I do not know any easy way for a cli system to connect to wlan, doing it manually is HARD. So if you need that, then windowed system just might be easier.

ArchLinux is best choice if you can and want to bother with various configuration/deal with fast-rolling update distribution.

CentOS/Fedora might serve as good alternative as it based on Red Hat, even though i still prefer Debian.

I'm shocked to find out that Slackware - the purist's choice of 1990s - still exists.

These days I'm far less religious so I just use a minimal Ubuntu server install for when I need a quick simple Linux box.

I'm half way through installing Ubuntu Studio, because I want to use it for content production, and a lot of good stuff is part of the basic download package. I'll probably install Kali on this netbook, because there is quite a bit of interesting investigative stuff available for it.

I'm not too bothered about hard drive size. I put a 2tb SSD in the notebook for example, and I can add USD and SDcard storage addons if I need more. Some of the software requires the use of a GUI, and I can use terminal mode if I want to run something a bit more basic.

Arch Linux is probably the one you are looking for!

I've been a very happy user of Debian and MX Linux. Until now, I haven't had any stability issue with any of them. Previously I've been using Ubuntu and Linux Mint. Some stability issues, but I am talking years ago. The only windows to be found at my home, are the once I use to look outside.

I am quite sure that you really can't go wrong with ANY popular distro.

Devuan is a Debian fork that addresses at least some of the problems in Debian Jessie/Stretch. And it's minimalistic too, so it might be a compromise between Debian and the more involving/advanced nature of Gentoo or Alpine. I've used a live version of Devuan before, albeit a desktop version. Not sure if there's a live cli-only Devuan image.

Disadvantages for Devuan is that it's only removed the most egregious anti-Unix software from Debian, vestiges still remain. And also, Devuan is only a few years old as a project. Gentoo and Alpine have a commited development team behind them, Devuan's team and userbase is smaller and not as longstanding (although a significant amount of Debian users and developers have switched to Devuan). Until Devuan becomes truly independent of Debian, it's a difficult distro to commit to. But the trend is positive atm, at least.

Gentoo and alpine sound interesting. I’ll drfinitely look into them.

I liked Debian wheezy but then it seems to have started to become more like Ubuntu and less like a native Linux breed.

Anyway thanks! I had issues with normal debian having a large download size and no live version.

Debian:

+ Ubuntu is based on Debian, so life is easy when finding packaged software
+ Well documented on the web, because it's popular
+ Big choice when it comes to minimalism (wide range of install images & forks like Devuan from which to choose your level of minimalism)
- Succumbed to alot of influence from Canonical (Ubuntu's parent company)
- Old versions of software and libraries (but with latest bugfixes), because it's intended as a conservative distro

Gentoo:

+ Very configurable installation means big choice when it comes to fundamental packages (i.e. multiple init daemons and SSL libs are catered for)
+ Very portable to different CPUs (packages compile themselves, given some arch-dependent template)
- Steep learning curve

Alpine:

+ Just minimal
- Minimal is the only choice, at least when installing initially
- Steep learning curve


Maybe Arch might work well too, but I don't know much about Arch (it has a less flexible compile-on-user-side updates system than Gentoo has)

Hopefully this isn’t too controversial. I want to have a Linux operating system that is very minimalistic. I want just a terminal if I can/cli.

I think Ubuntu is counterfeit windows. I’m not against having a gui but I think it might make me faster without one. I kinda just want something without very much installed (until I need it).