Topic: Local peer to peer should be allow (Read 320 times)

While also using decentralized exchanges which is the best way for privacy, it is good to still follow the right procedure because scammers are everywhere. If you can follow the right thing to do on a decentralized exchange like not to release coins until you see the money on your bank account, and to check the coins directly on your bank account and make  sure your account has be successfully credited. If a vendor is not reputed, it is better to avoid the vendor.

Well said mr o_e_l_e_o I don't think it is advise to conduct any business transaction using local p2p, even if the person is a close relation or a friend, as mistakes are inevitable and they may occur at any given time. but using a reputable exchange as you said will reduce the chances of being scammed or cheated in a business transaction.

You shouldn't rely on your local police or other authority to recover your coins in the case of a peer to peer scam. They will almost certainly not be interested in the amounts you are dealing with, and even if they are, there will be nothing they can do if the scammer has taken even the most basic of precautions.

Rather, you should avoid being in a situation where you can be scammed in the first place. Perform your P2 trades only through reputable peer to peer exchanges such as Bisq or AgoraDesk which will place the relevant coins (+/- security deposits) in to escrow first.

Yes I get your points mate but what am trying to say is that if the buyer or the seller is trying to cheat anybody among them selfs higher authorities can help solve the issue, now you can differentiate between mistakes and cheating, you are talking about the aspect of mistake while I am talking about cheating, on cheating you can get any higher authority to settle the issues while on Bitcoin transactions mistake like sending to a wrong address no body can settle such case and both the local P2P buyer and the seller will suffer for it because non of then will get any thing.

Expensive little mistakes are always there in any country even if they allow bitcoins. You should read about several cases on the scam accussations board where mistakes caused by weak research have not been able to be resolved through legal channels because the fees are more expensive. Or you can check any board about wrong sending address where bitcoins can't be recovered, even authorities can't do anything about it.

I don't know where you live, but you don't need the police to settle disputes in a p2p transaction, use a p2p exchange such as bisq for either your online p2p or f2f trades, in whichever trade you decide to go with, follow safety precautions for trading. Bisq will settle disputes between you and your trading partner if you both run into a misunderstanding that you can't settle on your own, though this doesn't happen often.

If you enter into p2p tx's with scammers you meet on social media like Telegram or in other platforms that are not secure in the hope of the police saving you, i'm sorry you are going to be scammed and the chances of winning a lottery twice a day will be higher than chances of recovering your funds.

Well it might be because the OP have seen some local gift card vendors thats why he's thinking that a local P2P transactions should be allowed, but he has forgotten to understand that a gift card is different from bitcoin, on Bitcoin any little mistake you make your coins will be lost for ever and you can't do anything about it to recover that is if you live in a country that does not accept bitcoin, even if you reports it to the police station they will definitely arrest the both of you for law valuation.
But if you live in a country whereby Bitcoin is legalized you can easily sell your coin with P2P transactions and if the buyer trys to cheat the seller or the seller try to cheat the buyer any of you can report the issues to the police to settle it peacefully.

Got your point. TBH after giving my last reply to you I went to washroom and there Ideas come to me (hehe) and I then thought I should have mention that this forum which you called centralized but we could avoid them but I think you already have the idea (no need to go washroom hehe). Well, point is I already had some idea and after reading it from you my ideas become more rigid. And One thing i learnt here is Centralized = No Anonymity and also Decentralized also means Non = less anonymity.

Decentralization is a much broader concept. Bitcoin is decentralized, but you can use bitcoin with zero anonymity. This website is centralized, but you can still use it anonymously. Avoidance of centralized exchanges is certainly necessary to preserve your privacy, but decentralized exchanges don't automatically make you anonymous.

This is certainly true, but it's never too late to start reclaiming some of that privacy. It is entirely possible to anonymize your KYCed bitcoin, or even to sell it back and buy non-KYCed bitcoin elsewhere, and to keep that entirely separated from the private details you have revealed or leaked elsewhere.

I have a solid experience in this. Back in the day, there was barely any place where people can buy/sell Bitcoin from Bangladesh. As a result, Facebook was the only source to do so. I was an admin in a Facebook group (cryptocurrency discussion). I used to get scam accusations almost every day. It was a surprise that people get scammed and again looked for deals on Facebook. There were different kinds of traps around which made face-to-face deals risky too.

Well, later I introduced escrow service there and it was running smoothly + generating good profits for me until Binance came up with their shit idea.

Actually, centralized exchanges are the easiest and fastest solutions to deposit, buy, sell or withdraw your bitcoins for multiple time but they cost you your privacy and a chance that exchange may lock your account for unknown reasons. But for one-time use, decentralized exchanges are really more efficient solutions, if you just plan to hold it and not trade frequently. They have already been mentioned many time, so I'm not gonna repeat.

Decentralization simply means that the power isn't only in one hand, instead, it's distributed to smaller factions.
This forum is centralized, right? theymos is the owner. If theymos wants to ban me, there is absolutely no one who will be able to stop him because themos owns this forum, he is the main figure. But if we have a decentralized forum where hundreds of different admins, then theymos won't be able to ban me because he isn't that powerful, he needs confirmation of other hundreds of admins to do so.

There aren't people registered on decentralized social networks because they are a new thing, so, where should one spread the message? Meta and Twitter are only options right now. It's not like people were waiting for decentralization to abandon these giant platforms, it's a very difficult task.

Agreed to your point. But if you do not mind then can you please elaborate more why did you said decentralization is not a synonym of Anonymity. What I am asking is I do know that decentralization is not a synonym of anonymity instead decentralization is the main factor that provide us anonymity. Or is it not? People like, you said, many developers really are using centralized platform and they also value decentralization at the same time. That's what you are saying. Because IMHO, If a developer is using a platform (centralized one) then he/she is living one life there but if the same person wants to avoid the centralization in Finance then they chose not to use these platform for Financial purposes instead they chose decentralized financial platforms for that purposes.

And by acquiring many achievements in decentralized financial platform for financial freedom, people are now encouraged to use decentralized social media platforms not to mention that the volume of users on Decentralized platform is still lesser than centralized social media platforms one. And I am agreed with your points as my thoughts were same.

But I think I was unable to deliver the full meaning of my message in that topic. One thing I mentioned in that topic is most of the people have already posted there personal details on those centralized platforms which means they have already lost their anonymity but if those same people were to use any Financial platform like banks (centralized) or BTC (decentralized). They have the option to remain not anonymous and anonymous respectively. I really was not trying to get into deep details of how people can really still manage to remain anonymous in financial status like without giving any personal details or handing over there assets to some central authority. Because they are using decentralized platform for that. What I was trying to say in that post is, people do not really care about decentralization anymore because they already shared a lot of there information on the internet which could be used to track them easily which already have eaten away some of the options to remain anonymous because once you are leaked on the decentralized platforms then having accounts on centralized platform will get your full details in no time. Means you will easily be linked to your decentralized life in financial world.

If I said something which does not make sense then please do not mind and correct me because I am still learning.

Sorry, but your thread is simply wrong. Decentralization is not synonymous with anonymity. Just because people use centralized social media websites does not mean they don't care about decentralization. There are plenty of bitcoin devs who are active on social media. Hell, this website is centralized. Just because we use it does not mean we do not care about decentralization.

Yes, there are individuals who only care about trading for profits and will give up all their privacy and security by using centralized platforms to achieve this. But to say no one cares about decentralization anymore is just wrong. There are more P2P platforms than we've ever had. There is more P2P volume than we've ever had. We now have decentralized social media such as Mastodon and Nostr. Decentralization is growing.

No doubts in that because it is what it is. But after seeing the interest of people in centralized BTC (talking about ETFs) I can say people really do not care for decentralization anymore. But still those who do for them Binance is the worst example and worst choice too. I was not trying to motivate anyone to use it instead I was using it only as example but you said it is also bad one so next time I think I should use a decentralized platform for example.

I can't think of anywhere worse to find a peer to peer trading partner than social media. The signal to noise ratio on platforms like Facebook or Telegram is heavily skewed towards "noise". These platforms are absolutely rife with scams. Far better to use a dedicated peer to peer exchange such as Bisq or HodlHodl which has safety features such as a built in escrow or reputation system.

Binance is a terrible choice for trading peer to peer. You get absolutely none of the advantages of actually trading P2P. You have zero security since Binance take custody of your coins, you have zero privacy since Binance can monitor all your trades, and you still have to complete KYC.

There are some options for buying bitcoins, but they are limited due to the fact that governments monitor these transactions, so I found the best way to buy and sell bitcoins away from central exchanges and KYC is P2P.

In my country, there are still no laws prohibiting bitcoin, but despite that, and in anticipation of any change from the government, I always use P2P through a reliable local broker. There are brokers spread in every country, so you must find one in your country.

They charge about 1-2% on every dollar-bitcoin exchange or vice versa.

You're saying this because you happen to be in a country where there is strict regulation on buying and selling of Bitcoin, This is not the case in my country I can trade my Bitcoin and cash it out in a matter of minutes at our local exchanges do not impose strict and a lot of processes to convert your Bitcoin to fiat.

Bitcoin was created to be a peer-to-peer with no banking interference but as time goes by centralized institutions offer buying and selling of Bitcoin with strict compliance and because we cannot find someone with whom we can do peer-to-peer because of trust, we have no choice but to use the banking system.

You can find a group in your country where you can do peer-to-peer. Until such time, there comes a local exchange in your country that makes conversion from Bitcoin to fiat easy and comfortable for all holders in your country.

I get your point and I share it to a certain extent, but I agree with pooya87 that this is not about Bitcoin. This is not a problem about Bitcoin transaction. I'd even go as far as saying that this is not even a problem about Bitcoin conversion. Even AgoraDesk's volume alone suffices the amount that any ordinary person wants to convert. Conversion is easy. I can only speak of my local situation, though.

The big problem, however-- and I agree with you-- is when you make a withdrawal. Withdrawing money is indeed a tough one. If it's a meetup with cold cash on hand, it's not a problem. But when it involves the banks or remittance centers, you'd have to be careful not to deal with amounts large enough to trigger AML policies.

When somebody withdraws $20,000 here, for example, you better spread it across two different bank accounts at least. This has nothing to do with Bitcoin. This has everything to do with the fiat system. The moment they ask you where this money comes from, problems will begin to arise.

The creator of Bitcoin, Nakamoto emphasize peer to peer transaction without the middle man, nothing should stop you from doing peer-to-peer as long as you find someone you trust to transact with, but the problem is the conversion from Bitcoin to fiat and trust and this is where the third party or middleman comes in which is the exchange, they take care of the conversion and the trust.
It's part of the adoption to the mainstream that government imposes its rules and regulation to safeguard their people, your best option is the Curency exchange of this forum and where you can find in your area people who are willing to do peer to peer, nothing should stop you from doing peer to peer as long as you can trust the people you want to trade, I have done this so many times and still doing it.

Local Peer to peer is available on almost every exchange until someone from your local place is providing the p2p services like if you are trying to sell some BTC but no other local person wants to buy that BTC then no exchange could help you there. I hope you are getting my point here.

For example, if you use Binance exchange you have to send or lock you BTC into Exchange as exchange is middleman during the p2p trade only and once you will receive funds in your desired platform like some local platform instead of banks if you fo not prefer banks. Maybe some other finance apps which allows you to receive money but the condition is that finance app must be listed on Binance. Such as PayPal, etc. idk if PayPal is listed on Binance just saying it as an example.

No local vendor would tell you where they live, surely nobody is going to do that for reasons that are so obvious, and you don't even need that information, if you are going to trade with a local vendor then you can do it face to face if possible, and you both will meet in an open place to carry out the trade. Follow safety measures when doing that.
It is not safe to trust people who advertise that they sell and buy BTC on social media platforms, too many of them are scammers. You should use a decentralized exchange such as bisq for p2p trade, and if you want to trade in-person, you can also use bisq to meet local traders around you willing to trade f2f.

I think there are still people-to-person purchases like they used to do and don't use the official exchanges like people used to do. But we must be careful to find these local sellers because we don't know them well. Try to sell or buy a small amount of bitcoins to see how it goes and if they are really trustworthy, we can proceed with selling or buying a sizeable amount.

The important thing is we can trust the local sellers we find and if there is any suspicion, we can look for other local sellers. Usually, these local sellers can be found on social media to offer their services to friends or other people.

And try to meet the local seller so that we know who he really is and where he lives. And this can also prevent fraud because we don't know what will happen later.

p2p exchange has become popular compared to CEX for those who want to buy bitcoin and it differs according to the country and the regulatory framework in your country. whenever you find someone who wants to trade cash in exchange for bitcoin or by bank transfer, the faster the process, but it may be somewhat expensive as some ask for fees between 1% and 5%, especially in countries that are subject to financial penalties from OFAC. If you were in those countries, bitcoin might be the fastest and cheapest transfer method.

If you want to avoid all the crazy regulations, privacy invasion, security risks, and so on which come with centralized exchanges, then choose a DEX which allows you to trade directly peer to peer with other users. Bisq is great and has already been mentioned. Other alternatives include AgoraDesk and Hodl Hodl. See here for more suggestions: https://kycnot.me/?type=exchange

Any good DEX will minimize the need for trust by using escrow, smart contracts, or similar. Bisq for example puts the bitcoin to be traded and security deposits in a 2-of-2 multi-sig prior to fiat changing hands.

The problem you are discussing is what the government created by a way of banning bitcoin or regulating the operations of cryptocurrency in different countries. There are some countries that bitcoin is not banned but banks are not permitted to make any cryptocurrency related transactions. This has automatically made the people in that area to resort to the p2p introduced by the CEXs.

The p2p proposed by Satoshi in the white paper can only be accomplished I a decentralized way. But centralization has eaten deep in the people. So, the problem you are seeing is not created by bitcoin but external bodies. It is either you follow the hard way to buy bitcoin or you follow the easy way and sacrifice privacy.

You did not mention your country or where you are located and what your country's policy regarding Cryptocurrency, here in our country we have a lot of centralized local exchanges where you can trade buy and sell Bitcoin within half an hour, for a country to be called Crypto friendly there should be a lot of options where people can easily buy and sell Bitcoin, they should make it easy especially for newbies who are buying Cryptocurrency for the first time.
Peer-to-peer is ok but there should be trust between two parties I always trade peer-to-peer but it's always on people I can trust but not on a huge amount of money, when a huge of money is involved I go for our local exchanger.

It depends on your base, there are some countries that legalize crypto where you can find many solutions for crypto activity around without intermediaries even possible using cash like Bitcoin ATM.
As far as I understand, the easier it is you at least have to pay a higher fee. It does not include the risk if you are dealing with random people with no clear trust status.

If I am not wrong LNP2PBOT Non KYC btc lightning exchange is the one you are talking about, well I tried it but it seems it has only traders from specific country not all over the world so if anyone from that region can use it but to me its not really seems to be trusted.

If you wonder how to use it to buy/ sell on that bot via LN then here is the article.

How to Trade Non KYC Bitcoin P2P on telegram

Here's the bot : @lnp2pBot

It is allowed, and there are websites facilitating it though the popularity of them has dwindled through the years. Governments are tightening their grips on currency exchange, to manage capital outflows, terrorist financing, money laundering, etc. Legalized exchange between currencies would only become more and more difficult with more hurdles to jump through.

Your local OTC (a lot of exchanges are P2P but not OTC) transactions are likely to be less regulated but more sketchy.

Apart from DEX, he can maybe try the Currency Exchange section of the forum, although he has a very limited offer and it is difficult to find a match for what he wants. I would take a look at it anyway.

I've also heard that there is a bot on Telegram for buying and selling with LN, but I don't know much about it.

That has nothing to do with bitcoin though. It is the problems inherited from the centralized payment system and fiat that bring regulations and KYC which makes the process of converting your fiat to bitcoin a complicated one. In other words this is not "transaction process" this is "conversion process" that has gotten complicated.
However, bitcoin is a currency and if you treat it as such you won't face as many problems. For example if you were getting paid in bitcoin like you are paid in fiat!

DEX like Bisq is the closest thing to that.

It's true that some people find the transaction process for buying Bitcoin to be cumbersome. Simplifying the process through local banks or direct transfers could indeed make it more accessible. There are platforms that aim to streamline the buying and selling of cryptocurrencies, offering easier payment options and smoother withdrawal processes. You might want to explore exchanges that prioritize user experience and convenience to find a more straightforward way to invest and trade cryptocurrencies.

Most reason why people don't involved in the buying of bitcoin is because of the transaction process its really stressing and it has so many procedure's, before now in my country if you want to buy crypto is very simple you transfer from local account or bank direct to wallet but you have go through a whole lot of process from one channel to another before payment is made and the worst of it is during withdrawal you will discover that the stress of withdrawing your money is a tough one. I believe this peer to peer can be redirect to channel through local banks or account to crypto wallet straight and make more people to involved in investment and trading. Or is there platform one can buy and sell easily without passing rigorous payment system? Please share