Topic: looking to borrow USD using bitcoin as collateral for bitcoin investment trust (Read 797 times)
December 03, 2013, 12:08:33 PM
Does this have anything to do with Coinsetter? I got an Email from them asking for accredited investors and discovered pretty much the same requirements you're talking about.
December 03, 2013, 11:41:22 AM
PM sent
December 02, 2013, 09:24:50 PM
Here is what second market can accept as Asset Documentation
The following documents are acceptable forms of proof of assets:
Bank Statements
Brokerage Statements or other statements of securities holdings
Certificates of deposit
Tax assessments
Third party appraisal reports
The 'other statements of securities holdings' does not include use of the blockchain. I offered to send one dollar from a wallet with my assets to an account of someone in their firm, but they said that would not satisfy the 'SEC rulings'. They have to jump through hoops of these regulators, regardless of how nonsensical they are.
I suppose I could ask about that '3rd party appraisal reports'. You have a point that I should be able to find an appraiser satisfactory to the 'SEC rulings' that is competent to use the blockchain to appraise my bitcoin holdings.
Probably some kind of government issued license to operate a business to appraise property, who also understands the fundamentals of bitcoin. Any suggestions of where I might look to find such a person?
The following documents are acceptable forms of proof of assets:
Bank Statements
Brokerage Statements or other statements of securities holdings
Certificates of deposit
Tax assessments
Third party appraisal reports
The 'other statements of securities holdings' does not include use of the blockchain. I offered to send one dollar from a wallet with my assets to an account of someone in their firm, but they said that would not satisfy the 'SEC rulings'. They have to jump through hoops of these regulators, regardless of how nonsensical they are.
I suppose I could ask about that '3rd party appraisal reports'. You have a point that I should be able to find an appraiser satisfactory to the 'SEC rulings' that is competent to use the blockchain to appraise my bitcoin holdings.
Probably some kind of government issued license to operate a business to appraise property, who also understands the fundamentals of bitcoin. Any suggestions of where I might look to find such a person?
December 02, 2013, 08:19:07 PM
Nope, no good. It has to be a bank or brokerage account statement. I know of no online wallet services that offer monthly statements - because as you point out, the blockchain has the evidence of what the account balance is, making official account statement preperation obsolete. But try to tell that to the regulators in the SEC.
First of all you don't send anything to the SEC. While the SEC is the regulatory they leave it to the issuer to handle accredited verification. I mean it isn't like bank statements or brokerage reports are cryptographically secure, so the burden of proof isn't that high. The issuer just need to "check the box", to show they made a good faith effort to validate the person and screened out non-accredited investors.
Have you asked the trust if they will consider Bitcoin wealth towards the accreditation threshold? In most cases dealing with a broker who has never heard of Bitcoins it probably is a long shot but this is the Bitcoin Trust. Now if they won't accept a particular proof of net worth then you are out of luck it is up to each issuer and there is no appeals process, however all wealth counts towards the threshold for accredited status. Many people own land, shares in other privately held companies, convertible notes, bullion reserves, real estate (but not primary residence), royalty contracts, etc and are can show accredited status. Wealth it wealth. Really the issuer is just looking for cover their ass and show an auditor they are open to the public.
December 02, 2013, 08:14:29 PM
Nope, no good. It has to be a bank or brokerage account statement. I know of no online wallet services that offer monthly statements - because as you point out, the blockchain has the evidence of what the account balance is, making official account statement preperation obsolete. But try to tell that to the regulators in the SEC.
That's strange. 1 million-worth of "assets" should be enough, and I thought bitcoin was considered at least as an asset, if not a currency. Did you really try to go down this way? December 02, 2013, 08:07:51 PM
If you have >1million USD worth of bitcoins, you're probably already an accredited investor.
Just send a message to the SEC signed with an such an address and you should be clear with BIT.
Just send a message to the SEC signed with an such an address and you should be clear with BIT.
Nope, no good. It has to be a bank or brokerage account statement. I know of no online wallet services that offer monthly statements - because as you point out, the blockchain has the evidence of what the account balance is, making official account statement preperation obsolete. But try to tell that to the regulators in the SEC.
Bitlend - I am looking to borrow about $150,000, and security would be whatever the current bitstamp or coinbase price is listing for USD/BTC.
As for escrow agents, so far I have found this link, but am still looking around and thinking about how to find someone that would give a safe feeling.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/escrow-list-108716
December 02, 2013, 07:52:13 PM
How many BTC would you be offering as security, and what USD$ amount would you require?
December 02, 2013, 06:34:31 PM
If you have >1million USD worth of bitcoins, you're probably already an accredited investor.
Just send a message to the SEC signed with an such an address and you should be clear with BIT.
Just send a message to the SEC signed with an such an address and you should be clear with BIT.
December 02, 2013, 06:29:17 PM
Be careful of newbies who will undoubtedly step forward to take you up on this. You will of course have to send them BTC first 
December 02, 2013, 06:23:21 PM
Not sure if this is the best forum for this topic ...I am looking for a loan, but in USD instead of bitcoin. I have plenty of bitcoin, am very bullish about the longterm future of bitcoin, and am looking to purchase more of it with a Roth IRA transfer using the secondmarket bitcoin investment trust (BIT), so I can avoid some capital gains tax over the long term.
Unfortunately BIT is open only to 'accredited investors'. According to SEC rulings, this status is available if you can show at least 1 million dollars in bank and brokerage statements as shown on the closing balance of a monthly statement. A credit report is required also to show you have the liabilities that you claim you have.
So is there someone out there with between 150-250k USD available that would, for some reasonable fee, wire to my bank for 3-4 days, in exchange for an equal amount of bitcoin, plus an escrowed fudge factor to protect the lender against price corrections?
I am open to suggestions on how to effectively protect both parties via someone acting as an escrow agent.
Feel free to PM me with inquiries. Looking to set something up ASAP, and definitely before the Dec 31 2013 statement close.
Thanks
Unfortunately BIT is open only to 'accredited investors'. According to SEC rulings, this status is available if you can show at least 1 million dollars in bank and brokerage statements as shown on the closing balance of a monthly statement. A credit report is required also to show you have the liabilities that you claim you have.
So is there someone out there with between 150-250k USD available that would, for some reasonable fee, wire to my bank for 3-4 days, in exchange for an equal amount of bitcoin, plus an escrowed fudge factor to protect the lender against price corrections?
I am open to suggestions on how to effectively protect both parties via someone acting as an escrow agent.
Feel free to PM me with inquiries. Looking to set something up ASAP, and definitely before the Dec 31 2013 statement close.
Thanks
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