I wouldn't think most supercomputers are even connected to internet, so we must be talking about computers with lax access (owned by a college allowing students to use it from home or something like that).
The fact it's the Los Alamos laboratory talking about this is a bit worrying though, was a supercomputer dedicated to nuclear weapons' testing used for mining ?
Topic: Los Alamos National Laboratory is building an anti crypto mining AI (Read 289 times)
August 27, 2020, 08:15:13 AM
August 27, 2020, 07:59:23 AM
Security researchers have claimed PC anti malware suites utilize scanning and signature updates to boost profits. They make more money charging consumers for their monthly virus update packages than they would in a one shot cure all product. Imagine if it were possible for anti virus vendors to engineer an AI based platform that seldom if ever needed monthly updates. That could be what we're witnessing here. A paradigm shift in IDS/PC security/anti malware markets.
I somewhat doubt claims of AI being involved. The definition of AI in this day and age has become blurred to where brute force applications that calculate every possible move in chess are considered a form of intelligence. I'm not certain if brute forcers which attempt every possible combination of letters to break a password would be considered intelligent. It is possible this same observation applies to "chess AI programs" which are only a little smarter.
Its questionable as to whether there would be any real advantage to having AI involved in IDS/security. There are scenarios where it could be a disadvantage due to contextual and critical thinking limitations. Similar to limitations tesla's self driving cars have.
I somewhat doubt claims of AI being involved. The definition of AI in this day and age has become blurred to where brute force applications that calculate every possible move in chess are considered a form of intelligence. I'm not certain if brute forcers which attempt every possible combination of letters to break a password would be considered intelligent. It is possible this same observation applies to "chess AI programs" which are only a little smarter.
Its questionable as to whether there would be any real advantage to having AI involved in IDS/security. There are scenarios where it could be a disadvantage due to contextual and critical thinking limitations. Similar to limitations tesla's self driving cars have.
August 26, 2020, 02:48:39 PM
Is there much call for this?
I was under the impression that even the world's hottest super computer is pathetically outgunned by any dedicated mining machine. I presume hijacking even a handful of fancy GPUs doing AI type stuff would give you more grunt and more options.
I was under the impression that even the world's hottest super computer is pathetically outgunned by any dedicated mining machine. I presume hijacking even a handful of fancy GPUs doing AI type stuff would give you more grunt and more options.
it depends on the supercomputer and the coin you're trying to mine. re bitcoin, i suspect you're right. but take an ASIC-resistant coin like monero and that all changes. just imagine pointing this at the monero network: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Titan_(supercomputer)
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18,688 AMD Opteron 6274 16-core CPUs
18,688 Nvidia Tesla K20X GPUs
18,688 Nvidia Tesla K20X GPUs
August 26, 2020, 02:25:29 PM
Is there much call for this?
I was under the impression that even the world's hottest super computer is pathetically outgunned by any dedicated mining machine. I presume hijacking even a handful of fancy GPUs doing AI type stuff would give you more grunt and more options.
I was under the impression that even the world's hottest super computer is pathetically outgunned by any dedicated mining machine. I presume hijacking even a handful of fancy GPUs doing AI type stuff would give you more grunt and more options.
August 26, 2020, 01:38:05 PM
I agree with @hatshepsut93 here! You do not need an advanced AI to tell you that your computer is being overworked. Even a novice with three fingers can fire up task manager on windows and find out which processes are eating up your pc resources and your electricity.
The real application for tech like this is in perhaps where a large number of slave computers are connected to a single network. Maybe in a company building or a site or even a large cafe (which is pretty small scale). Where maybe running a single app that can check hundreds of connected computers together can be an efficient tool to have. But then you will have to worry about the cost and if it is really worth it.
That said, everybody claims to be able to build an AI that can do X or Z... And yet I don't think I've seen an AI project truly deliver on its promises.
The real application for tech like this is in perhaps where a large number of slave computers are connected to a single network. Maybe in a company building or a site or even a large cafe (which is pretty small scale). Where maybe running a single app that can check hundreds of connected computers together can be an efficient tool to have. But then you will have to worry about the cost and if it is really worth it.
That said, everybody claims to be able to build an AI that can do X or Z... And yet I don't think I've seen an AI project truly deliver on its promises.
August 23, 2020, 10:32:00 PM
Now, this is good news, this is the kind of news that I like to read. I've been wondering how can someone detect that hidden miner software since anti-virus nowadays can be fooled by those programs except for a few. If they can just sell their AI when they successfully made it to the owners of the anti-virus out there, we won't have any problems updating our systems. anyway, let's just hope we will have this kind of program soon because crypto-jacking is now the trend and it's a pain in the ass to detect them.
August 23, 2020, 08:33:07 PM
I don't see why tools which monitor application/hardware usage is good enough? Besides if they can developer AI which can detect malicious codes to hijack supercomputer, why limit it to cryptocurrency mining when there are other malicious things (such as stealing information or make server down).
Maybe this is just the first step to it? Maybe they are trying to teach their AIs to detect unusual behaviors that might help them develop an AI to prevent malicious things like you mentioned.
But if the hacker is smart enough, attacking supercomputer will be easier if it can't detect a malicious software, he can just set the mining to minimum and since the supercomputer can mine faster I think that would not be noticeable at all.
I agree. Even a small amount of computing power means profit to those hackers. Though this might be trivial to many, this is a huge step to computer experts to understand behaviors and AIs which might help them in future endeavors. Even small things can be useful.
Though some might disagree and say "they should have used their resources to other projects that is more important".
August 22, 2020, 10:11:47 AM
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First time that I heard about an AI trying to spot a malware used for crypto jacking. It says it also focus on supercomputers but maybe it could also be implemented for desktop as well.
A supercomputer has nothing to do with a desktop computer.
Anyway,I thought that supercomputers are running in a "closed" network,without access to the world wide web,since their main function is to do big math calculations.How a supercomputer can be infected by a crypto mining virus?I'm no expert in this field,so this seems weird to me.
I guess that crypto mining scripts are easy to be detected by any ordinary anti-virus program,when it comes to desktop computers,so there's no need for Artificial Intelligence.
typical super computer time is reserved far in advance by scientists and universities with very tight time frames and parameters. be kinda hard to sneak mining into some super advanced weather model simulation and such.
imo anyway. its like stealing time from the hubble telescope or something. be easy to notice when some project bombs or takes significantly longer to complete.
August 22, 2020, 10:02:24 AM
First time that I heard about an AI trying to spot a malware used for crypto jacking. It says it also focus on supercomputers but maybe it could also be implemented for desktop as well. Good if they could develop and make improvements, but they admit that this graph based approach couldn't capture all scenarios.
How hard can it be to detect that you computer is under full load even when idle or just doing some non-intensive tasks? Your fans will get louder, you might notice some heat, your performance will slow down.
And even for supercomputers, I doubt that AI is requires or is the best solution. They too can measure their load and detect suspicious processes, and if that is not enough, they can target crypto mining specifically, as it should leave a specific signature.
But if the hacker is smart enough, attacking supercomputer will be easier if it can't detect a malicious software, he can just set the mining to minimum and since the supercomputer can mine faster I think that would not be noticeable at all. August 22, 2020, 09:51:11 AM
I don't see why tools which monitor application/hardware usage is good enough? Besides if they can developer AI which can detect malicious codes to hijack supercomputer, why limit it to cryptocurrency mining when there are other malicious things (such as stealing information or make server down).
Apparently, mining is their most fierce enemy
August 22, 2020, 08:13:16 AM
You don't exactly need AI to detect any abnormal PC activities. It's probably just a gimmick.
For starters, any crypto-mining malware will exhibit the exact same behavior; to have a continuous utilisation of computing resources and a periodic network activity to detect new block headers to hash. It's good that they're trying to adapt to detect it faster but it is hardly THAT sophisticated.
For starters, any crypto-mining malware will exhibit the exact same behavior; to have a continuous utilisation of computing resources and a periodic network activity to detect new block headers to hash. It's good that they're trying to adapt to detect it faster but it is hardly THAT sophisticated.
August 22, 2020, 08:12:10 AM
How hard can it be to detect that you computer is under full load even when idle or just doing some non-intensive tasks? Your fans will get louder, you might notice some heat, your performance will slow down.
Some simply ignore the noise level produced by the computer thinking it is normal, but the creators of crypto mining malware also adapt in such a way that they do not use the maximum power of the CPU, which then does not result in a significant slowdown or increase in noise.
Anyway,I thought that supercomputers are running in a "closed" network,without access to the world wide web,since their main function is to do big math calculations.How a supercomputer can be infected by a crypto mining virus?I'm no expert in this field,so this seems weird to me.
Obviously this is not the case, if you read the article the following is stated :
I guess that crypto mining scripts are easy to be detected by any ordinary anti-virus program,when it comes to desktop computers,so there's no need for Artificial Intelligence.
It's true, from time to time my AV detects such attempts from some sites that try to mine Monero via a browser - but this is not about this kind of CPU power hijacking - but about very sophisticated malware that is installed in the system and sometimes is very skillfully camouflaged as a legitimate program. As things stand with supercomputers, it seems that they really need AI to detect such abuses - besides, everything is going in the direction of giving more and more control to AI, and this area is no exception.
August 22, 2020, 08:11:03 AM
And even for supercomputers, I doubt that AI is requires or is the best solution. They too can measure their load and detect suspicious processes, and if that is not enough, they can target crypto mining specifically, as it should leave a specific signature.
AIs just make everything easier and more efficient in the long run that's why more and more companies and institutions are spending a shit ton of money on AI development. While it is not a necessity that should be there almost immediately, imagine the implications and resources they can save in the long run with this tech. Instead of allocating manpower and some time off in detecting some form of irregularity in the processing load, why not allow an automated process that will do the job for you? Supercomputers are often employed on tricky and glitzy scientific and mathematical modeling that require full concentration from those conducting the tests/experiments whatever, so I guess this isn't money down the drain from the Los Alamos National Laboratory.
August 22, 2020, 07:53:09 AM
I bet intrusion detection systems nowadays aren't as effective as they are perceived to be, hence the development of an AI to combat any form of crypto mining.
It's because hackers are also making advance and it seems that vendors are really late in reacting to it that even supercomputers are being targeted by this criminals to mine crypto without our prior knowledge.
Well this is a good news but I think the AI's capability would be limited only in scope to supercomputers and it would be ideal if it could also be developed to be used on other systems like pc's and servers since they are most often targeted by these kinds of malwares, maybe its because they can be easily penetrated as compared to the more secure supercomputer systems.
Based on the article, it seems that's where they want to deploy this so called anti-crypto mining AI.
Despite on this development, I think it still pays to have a good and knowledgeable systems administrator / security professionals to oversee and safeguard computer systems to any kind of such malware attacks. Imho.
It's really a game changer, so sys ads need to update their knowledge as well. And that's why I saw a lot of cyber administrators are in demand right now because of this kind of breach and intrusions.
August 22, 2020, 07:29:05 AM
I bet intrusion detection systems nowadays aren't as effective as they are perceived to be, hence the development of an AI to combat any form of crypto mining.
Well this is a good news but I think the AI's capability would be limited only in scope to supercomputers and it would be ideal if it could also be developed to be used on other systems like pc's and servers since they are most often targeted by these kinds of malwares, maybe its because they can be easily penetrated as compared to the more secure supercomputer systems.
Despite on this development, I think it still pays to have a good and knowledgeable systems administrator / security professionals to oversee and safeguard computer systems to any kind of such malware attacks. Imho.
Well this is a good news but I think the AI's capability would be limited only in scope to supercomputers and it would be ideal if it could also be developed to be used on other systems like pc's and servers since they are most often targeted by these kinds of malwares, maybe its because they can be easily penetrated as compared to the more secure supercomputer systems.
Despite on this development, I think it still pays to have a good and knowledgeable systems administrator / security professionals to oversee and safeguard computer systems to any kind of such malware attacks. Imho.
August 22, 2020, 06:15:40 AM
Quote
First time that I heard about an AI trying to spot a malware used for crypto jacking. It says it also focus on supercomputers but maybe it could also be implemented for desktop as well.
A supercomputer has nothing to do with a desktop computer.
Anyway,I thought that supercomputers are running in a "closed" network,without access to the world wide web,since their main function is to do big math calculations.How a supercomputer can be infected by a crypto mining virus?I'm no expert in this field,so this seems weird to me.
I guess that crypto mining scripts are easy to be detected by any ordinary anti-virus program,when it comes to desktop computers,so there's no need for Artificial Intelligence.
August 22, 2020, 05:41:50 AM
First time that I heard about an AI trying to spot a malware used for crypto jacking. It says it also focus on supercomputers but maybe it could also be implemented for desktop as well. Good if they could develop and make improvements, but they admit that this graph based approach couldn't capture all scenarios.
How hard can it be to detect that you computer is under full load even when idle or just doing some non-intensive tasks? Your fans will get louder, you might notice some heat, your performance will slow down.
And even for supercomputers, I doubt that AI is requires or is the best solution. They too can measure their load and detect suspicious processes, and if that is not enough, they can target crypto mining specifically, as it should leave a specific signature.
August 22, 2020, 04:41:05 AM
First time that I heard about an AI trying to spot a malware used for crypto jacking. It says it also focus on supercomputers but maybe it could also be implemented for desktop as well. Good if they could develop and make improvements, but they admit that this graph based approach couldn't capture all scenarios.
How hard can it be to detect that you computer is under full load even when idle or just doing some non-intensive tasks? Your fans will get louder, you might notice some heat, your performance will slow down.
And even for supercomputers, I doubt that AI is requires or is the best solution. They too can measure their load and detect suspicious processes, and if that is not enough, they can target crypto mining specifically, as it should leave a specific signature.
August 21, 2020, 09:36:25 PM
First time that I heard about an AI trying to spot a malware used for crypto jacking. It says it also focus on supercomputers but maybe it could also be implemented for desktop as well. Good if they could develop and make improvements, but they admit that this graph based approach couldn't capture all scenarios.
How hard can it be to detect that you computer is under full load even when idle or just doing some non-intensive tasks? Your fans will get louder, you might notice some heat, your performance will slow down.
And even for supercomputers, I doubt that AI is requires or is the best solution. They too can measure their load and detect suspicious processes, and if that is not enough, they can target crypto mining specifically, as it should leave a specific signature.
August 21, 2020, 06:40:36 PM
Foiling illicit cryptocurrency mining with artificial intelligence
https://www.lanl.gov/discover/news-release-archive/2020/August/0820-cryptocurrency.php
First time that I heard about an AI trying to spot a malware used for crypto jacking. It says it also focus on supercomputers but maybe it could also be implemented for desktop as well. Good if they could develop and make improvements, but they admit that this graph based approach couldn't capture all scenarios.
In related news: Hackers Are Using Supercomputers to Mine Crypto.
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LOS ALAMOS, N.M., Aug. 20, 2020—Los Alamos National Laboratory computer scientists have developed a new artificial intelligence (AI) system that may be able to identify malicious codes that hijack supercomputers to mine for cryptocurrency such as Bitcoin and Monero.
“Based on recent computer break-ins in Europe and elsewhere, this type of software watchdog will soon be crucial to prevent cryptocurrency miners from hacking into high-performance computing facilities and stealing precious computing resources,” said Gopinath Chennupati, a researcher at Los Alamos National Laboratory and co-author of a new paper in the journal IEEE Access. “Our deep learning artificial intelligence model is designed to detect the abusive use of supercomputers specifically for the purpose of cryptocurrency mining.”
Cryptocurrencies, such as Bitcoin, are forms of digital money. Instead of minting it like coins or paper bills, cryptocurrency miners digitally dig for the currency by performing computationally intense calculations.
“Based on recent computer break-ins in Europe and elsewhere, this type of software watchdog will soon be crucial to prevent cryptocurrency miners from hacking into high-performance computing facilities and stealing precious computing resources,” said Gopinath Chennupati, a researcher at Los Alamos National Laboratory and co-author of a new paper in the journal IEEE Access. “Our deep learning artificial intelligence model is designed to detect the abusive use of supercomputers specifically for the purpose of cryptocurrency mining.”
Cryptocurrencies, such as Bitcoin, are forms of digital money. Instead of minting it like coins or paper bills, cryptocurrency miners digitally dig for the currency by performing computationally intense calculations.
https://www.lanl.gov/discover/news-release-archive/2020/August/0820-cryptocurrency.php
First time that I heard about an AI trying to spot a malware used for crypto jacking. It says it also focus on supercomputers but maybe it could also be implemented for desktop as well. Good if they could develop and make improvements, but they admit that this graph based approach couldn't capture all scenarios.
In related news: Hackers Are Using Supercomputers to Mine Crypto.
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