Topic: Low fee (Read 354 times)

Possibly... a good place to start would be identifying the block the transaction was included in... and which mining pool mined that block. If it was F2Pool, BTC.com, ViaBTC or AntPool... there is a possibility that someone got it accelerated.

By looking at the "children" of this transaction, you might find one that pays a ridiculously high fee... in which case, they may have attempted a "Child Pays For Parent" that worked to get it confirmed.

Are you saying that using transactionID knowledge I could figure out how this was cleared up?

You're totally misunderstanding what the CPFP dialog was telling you... the blockchain system was NOT waiting on a fee of 441.1954 mBTC for your transaction to be processed. The CPFP dialog that said "fee required = 441.1954 mBTC" was just telling you that if you wanted to attempt a CPFP to give your stuck transaction "priority" a better chance of being included in a block, you should send the CPFP transaction with a fee of 441.1954 mBTC.

However, your original transaction was just sitting there in the mempool, waiting for a miner to pick it up an put it in a block. There was nothing stopping it from being picked up, just the odds of that happening were relatively low because of the low fee.

As for HOW your transaction got picked up with the low fee... as I've theorised, given the "LARGE" number of bytes that this transaction seemed to be, it was probably a "PayToMany" transaction... it is possible someone else either paid for it to be accelerated by an acceleration service, or THEY paid a large 441.1954 type fee to do a CPFP etc. and that is how the transaction got confirmed.

But, as always, without transactionIDs to work with... this is all speculation.

On Christmas eve the 102 mBTC transaction went through and is appearing in the electrum wallet.  I do not know how it went through when the blockchain system was waiting on a fee of 441.1954 mBTC but it went through.

Can someone explain how it was cleared up or who could have cleared it up?  Whoever it was THANK YOU. That was a nice Christmas gift.  

with current network conditions... you're essentially playing the crypto version of Russian Roulette

The network is so busy, and fees got so crazy that the ViaBTC service went from "busy" to totally overloaded. You used to be able to submit your transaction sometime in the first minute of a new hour and 99% of the time it would work. Now, if you're not in the first SECOND of a new hour, 99% of the time, you're going to get "submissions beyond limit".

First of all, establish that the size=65643 is actually correct.

Do you know how to do that?

Hey all.  What are your thoughts on sending btc with a very low fee... then using via bitaccelator?

No... receiving wallets have NOTHING to do with the fees charged for a transaction. The fees paid are set at the time that the transaction is created and sent.

Electrum did not and cannot have had ANYTHING to do with any fees charged for a transaction that you received!

CPFP is simply a function whereby you attempt to "spend" your unconfirmed, received coins in a brand new transaction with a GIANT fee in an attempt to get miners to confirm the parent and the child together (miners cannot confirm a child unless the parent is confirmed)... this is why when you attempt to do the CPFP in Electrum it shows such a large fee.

It does not help that your transaction was over 65,000 bytes... Without being able to see the actual transaction (you have not provided a transaction ID), most of this is "guesswork"... but given that the transaction was over 65,000 bytes... it either had a LOT of inputs or a LOT of outputs... or both!

I'm *guessing* that wherever you received your 0.102 BTC from... they have "batched up" a lot of payments to several users... and are shifting a LOT of inputs around in one transaction. Attempting a CPFP would mean that in affect you are attempting to pay the fees for ALL the payments to ALL the users, not just yourself.

Given that a "standard" input is usually around 148 bytes... an an output is around 34 bytes... let's pretend the sender used 400 inputs... that gives up 148 * 400 = 59200 bytes... and we'll say they paid 100 people... that gives us 34 * 100 = 3400... so we're at something like 62,600 bytes, which is pretty close.

In effect, if you attempted to do a CPFP, you would be paying the fees to cover all 100 people getting their money, this is why the CPFP fee is so outrageous. CPFP was not really designed with covering the fees for "pay to many" transactions, nor for transactions with a ridiculously large data size

If I were you, I would seriously reconsider doing business with whomever it was that created this transaction... sending a 65+Kilobyte transaction is just ridiculous... especially if it got stuck, they obviously cheaped out on fees

Are you saying that the electrum wallet messed up the transaction so I was charged four times the amount of the btc that was sent to me?  Did the wallet do these inputs and outputs which caused the fees to be so high?

Are you sure that wallets when receiving transactions have something to do with the amount that is charged to the transaction?  I know that you can set the fees in wallets when sending transactions but I did not know that they had any influence over the fees when receiving transactions.


Can someone who knows settle these questions please.


Thank you,


G.P.

Its not the fault of the miners, they don't stole your btc and they have nothing to do with that, wallets are design to compute the recommended fee so it can be confirm faster base on the current situation of the network and based on your inputs/output of your previous transaction. 65643 bytes is pretty huge size you might have so many small amount of transactions(inputs/outputs) before thats why you experiencing this.

Posted on blockchain.info:  The Bitcoin network is currently experiencing record usage, resulting in longer confirmation times and higher miner’s fees for transactions. Transactions are likely to be more expensive and/or take longer to complete and additional fees go directly to miners.

Do you mean to tell me that the miners could be at fault for charging me thousands of times more than what is usually acceptable?

The miners stole the btc from me?

How do I get the stolen fees back from the miners?

Thank you

I need to take this out to a wider audience of people for advice if this can not be solved today on this thread within this section of the forum?  It is possible that none of the electrum developers would admit this charge of four times the amount sent was the fault of electrum?  So that is why i have to bring this outside of this section of the forum to assure I get more objective answers.  Thank you.

Please see post above for more questions.  Thanks to the experts who come on here and help.

Anyone know the username of an electrum developer on this forum who would be responsible for the electrum system?

You said:  ".... it depends on the fee paid......"

If the fee is four times of the amount that was sent, does that guarantee the transaction is dead in the water?

Also, who is responsible for me being charged four times the amount sent?  The sender only charged 2% to send the transaction at least that is what they have listed as their fee, but I also notice that inside of the electrum client it has a sliding scale of fees, and that is set right in the middle in my client.  So is it possible that something within the electrum system went haywire and that is why these ridiculous charges happened to the btc transfer I was to receive?

Payments should only be regarded as completed when the TX at least recieved 1 confirmation.


This depends on the fee paid and if the transaction is going to be rebroadcasted after being unconfirmed for several days/weeks.
You could look the transaction up in this blockexplorer: https://blockchain.info/ and add ?format=hex at the end of the URL afterwards.
Then copy the hex transaction. Afterwards you can try to broadcast/push this TX into the network when it has been dropped (if this is going to happen at all).
To push the TX after it has been dropped you can either use core or an online service[1].

[1] https://blockexplorer.com/tx/send or https://live.blockcypher.com/btc/pushtx/ or https://blockchain.info/de/pushtx, more can be found via google.

What happens if I just wait?  Will the transaction go through sometime in the future?

Thanks

as long as these transactions are not confirmed the sender can technically double spend them. this is why it is suggested to only accept confirmed transactions.
as for double spending, it is harder if it is not an RBF transaction which will show up as "replaceable". and if it is RBF, then the sender can simply increase the fees by double spending the same transaction.

Are you saying that even if the coin is showing in my wallet with the words "low fee" next to it, the sender can actually claim the btc again and resend it to me?

Can someone please tell me where I can find the accelerator?

Thanks

Also, is it possible that a company who is sending out mass payments would cause all those large sized inputs and outputs?

Also, what is an RBF transaction?

More tips needed.

Thanks

"try your luck with an accelerator like ViaBTC"

There is not suppose to be any luck. The blockchain is supposed to work with our trust in the technology to work correctly.

The price of bitcoin is going to collapse if this kind of nonsense takes place with others and word gets out.

If I have further payments sent to a different wallet will that make a difference?

Please help  me so this does not happen to me again.  Thanks a million.

Thanks

Simply put, you can't clear it up. It looks like you received funds from a transaction that included a LOT of inputs and/or outputs... The transaction data size was 65,643 bytes!!?!

For reference, a simple transaction of 1 input, 1 output and a change address is only 226 bytes!

There is nothing you can do except pay the fee, wait, try your luck with an accelerator like ViaBTC or ask the sender to try an RBF transaction and resend with a better fee!

I have a real humdinger to solve.

I was sent a transaction for 102 mBTC

It arrived in a pending state in my wallet with the notation "low fee" next to it.

When I bring up the child pays for parent I get these numbers:

Total size: 65643 btyes

Input amount: 102 mBTC

Output amount: -339.1923 mBTC

Fee:  441.1954 mBTC

---------------------

No way am I going to pay a fee of 441 mBTC for sending 103 mBTC.

Help me clear this up so I can get my 103 mBTC without paying too much.

Thanks,

G.P.

Depending on the version of Electrum you are running, then you could use  CPFP (child pays for parent). Check in your preferences whether dynamic fees is enabled, if not enable it. Go to your history of transactions and right click on the transaction with the "low fee" message and select CPFP. A slider will come up which you can then readjust the fee.

If you haven't got a version which supports CPFP, then you can always try out a free accelerator service, such as viabtc.

Some of the funds in the wallet are not credited. It is written: "Low fee". How can this problem be solved?