Topic: Low power chips WANTED!!! 0.3 W/Ghs or around. Ideal miner design for exchange (Read 8757 times)

Please let me know if you get a working product. 

Thank you for your contributions to the community.  You are of Merit

Ideally, the *world* needs more people whose primary motivation is not greed, but you know, one step at a time.

"the basic motivation to be a good player or company in Bitcoin has little to do with viability of the company" is generally a sad fact.

"What the consumer wants will drive what eventually gets made and continues to be made" is great, but ignoring 90% of the customer base (sure, it's only got 10% of the money but it's still 90% of the customers) is kinda stupid. When you sell a decentralized system to only a core group, it ceases to be a decentralized system. When a small number of folks control the supply of bitcoins, how is that cartel different than any federal mint?

The problem isn't building things people don't want to buy, it's not building things people do want and alienating everyone except the high rollers. The few dozen rich guys capitalizing on the framework laid by the million regular joes that came before and are now being squeezed out of the way.

Consumers will buy miners motivated by what?

1. ROI.
2. Possess cutting edge miners.
3. To support Bitcoin.

I think the basic motivation to be a good player or company in Bitcoin has little to do with viability of the company.

What the consumer wants will drive what eventually gets made and continues to be made.

If you are unwilling to create demand and explore alternatives then you are doomed to failure. You can't continue building things people do not want to buy.

Even the scammers recognize that and have given up trying to swindle people who are buying miners.

Right now we're doing good just to pay the electric bill and keep enough to manufacture batches of PSU boards. We've got some outside jobs coming in that'll get some more R&D dollars in the coffer to expand product lines.

If that was meant to be sarcastic, take a look at everything Novak or I have ever posted. You'll see we've always helped little guys as much as possible. We started building PSU boards so home users could take advantage of increased efficiency and decreased price of secondhand server supplies, to help shave off the edge industrial buyers get in price preference. Our hosting service has a 15KW per-user limit so nobody big can take over what we've built for regular guys that can't afford to mine at home anymore. Which by the way, nobody draws a wage from maintaining the hosting infrastructure. The fees are entirely electric and building costs. We're designing hardware right now to allow efficient undervolting of S5 so they're viable longer; we're working on undervolt studies for BE200 gear so they can be viable longer; we're working toward a fully-configurable (clock and voltage) BM1384 board basically as an independent S1 upgrade. We made our own USB adapters (and sold 'em at cost) for Tube/Prisma when AM sucked at getting them to folks what needed them.

Basically, the bitcoin economy needs more people whose primary motivation is NOT greed.

Wow a company dedicated to the miner first, seems to have been said loosely before by every company.  Until they made enough to start their own multi petahash farms.

1. I'm interested in building miners for home users, and honestly most of the things we've sold haven't had much profit margin in them so why change that now? Like I said, we need third-party manufacturers that don't screw people over. I guess we also need first-party manufacturers that don't screw people as well.

2. I fairly vehemently despise the IoT concept and will not be participating. Neither will any GekkoScience products, no matter how trendy and profitable it might be, because we don't want to help the world shift to Hacker's Paradise and/or Skynet.

Also, miner controllers aren't that hard to conjure up if you don't suck at embedded programming. The AM Blade and Cube run off a little PIC32, and the Prisma controller's micro has 512KB RAM - three orders of magnitude less than a Pi. Even an Arm Cortex would be overkill for all but a huge and overly convoluted machine.

I've always been pretty adamantly against this happening. it just isnt practical in most use cases. Bitcoin mining is supposed to always be only marginally more profitable than the cost to mine.

when MBP has a datacenter with 2MW of power, paying less than 5c/kwh - theres no way a little DVD player with $10 worth of ASIC chips will compete, particularly as the majority of buyers would live where power is >10c/kwh and they likely dont want a constant 20-40W heating element sitting in their media cabinet.

the only viable options are space heaters and water heaters. spaceheater-wise; better to just buy an old ASIC like the S1/S3.
waterheater-wise; a distributor could come up with a clever way to do it, but water heaters only run about 6hrs/day, and a gas-powered one costs about 1/5th as much as an electric one to operate.

theres no real usage case for mining outside of high density, specialized equipment - unless you want a LOT of consumers pissed off because bitcoin made thier power bills outrageously high and their houses obscenely warm

It was also mid 2013.  The point is that an IOT device is likely already going to have a processor capable of acting as the controller, so you don't need to include one.  Also an IOT device is likely to already be networked via WiFi and you won't need to include that.  The only thing you may need is some DC/DC regulation (maybe) and that is v.cheap in qty.  In practice you should be able to add some hashing ASICs for pennies on top of the bare chip.

He was selling a 48Gh board for ~$1800, that's not really the same thing as trying to remain $ efficient for $2-3 worth of chips + controller.

What are you basing your opinion off of?  Likely any embedded processor used for an IOT device will be more than capable of running a few GH.

Edit:  An example...

ARM's embed IOT platform utilizes Cortex M series MCU:

http://www.arm.com/products/internet-of-things-solutions/mbed-IoT-device-platform.php

BCT user jlsminingcorp sold a 48GH standalone Bitfury miner utilizing an ARM Cortex M3 MCU.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/closed-48-ghs-standalone-bitfury-miners-with-escrow-278330

A controller isn't cheap per GH when we're talking about 5-30W worth of chips.

also i am closer to be millioner in cash,only missing 999999 $

While I think the idea on it's own is dumb (non starter), devices that are already internet capable can have a sha256 asic integrated at very low cost.  Not to mention a lot of the components you listed are cheap as hell when purchased in volume.

I've heard you talk about this web of things type model before, it will never ever ever be even remotely close to viable. Putting single / quad chip PCBs + own controllers + wifi is so incredibly expensive compared to even an S5 formfactor.

Problem is.

Non crappy prices means zero profitability.

Consumer prices rely on larger volumes and currently the market for miners to consumers is too small to make it a viable model. Why are companies going to B2B? Volume. Simply the economies of scale for single units for the home is just not there compared to mega farms. The trend will continue until there are no mid sized farms and only mega farms left.

The only viable way this could change would be massive amounts of small devices integrated into home electronics. Or linking millions of small units together in a single pool to compete with mega farms.

The money is not there at this time to go after the ever shrinking market home user unless you have some sort of miner that is more gadget than miner. You will likely start seeing these sorts of things popping up but it will require some really innovative design team to get them to be interesting to the consumer level buyers but also to break out of the niche in these forums it would have to have wide appeal well beyond the hardware forums.

We need more third-party manufacturers that can build not-crappy miners from mainline chips and sell them for not-crappy prices. And then actually ship them instead of screwing people over.

The only problem KnC & Bitcoin Brothers are not going to sell to the public,just to corps wanting to start massive farms (or themselves),same as Bitfury & Spoondolies  

Not sure if Bitmain can keep selling to us home miners either...have to wait & see  

quiet after the announcement ... sigh..

Don`t see any info about new products. Hamsters buying S5.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying bitcoin chip designers should be working toward a FinFET 14-16 nm chip.  I've read that there are two companies getting close.... and one company has reached tapeout saying the chip is 0.07 W/GHS???:

http://techcrunch.com/2014/11/02/bitcoin-brothers-aim-to-disrupt-bitcoin-mining-with-new-more-powerful-supercomputers/

http://cryptomining-blog.com/3854-kncminer-solar-new-16nm-asic-chips-coming-in-2015/

http://www.creandum.com/accel-partners-invests-in-kncminer-16nm-tape-out-completed/

Maybe we won't see these 2 manufacturers with the super efficient mining rigs using the FinFET16 chip for a few or several months?:

http://wccftech.com/tsmcs-16nm-finfet-faces-delays-qualcomm-jumps-ship-samsung/

http://www.guru3d.com/news-story/nvidia-moving-to-tsmc-16nm-finfet-process.html

All in all, it looks like a new "chip efficiency race" is ready to begin??

or

Is it all hype???

Bottomline:

Most miners love what Bitmain has done for the industry. If these new super efficient chips are close to becoming a reality, then Bitmain is likely exploring/developing them too.... so that they can maintain their share of the market.

yes maybe for factory owner,for me hotel owner this is stupid idea.I wote every 2- month minimum 7 days paid holiday.every EU state different week starting holiday

Too much rest no one has died.
If you see someone resting, help him
Do not do today what you can do tomorrow
Working as little as you can, and what exactly you can not avoid leaving to another person

Can't wait,  please not as noisy as the s5's

I am hoping they do something like this.  Not going to go out and get an S2 just yet, but if the price is right may find some good used ones.

I have two s2. waiting for announcements.

whay you joke around bitcoin.If you good chip designer.Apple,AMD,Samsung pay you couple bilion $ and more if you design working FinFET in 14-16 nm.
But if i can design working 14-16 nm chip i sale patent right in first year 100$ by chip and colect 20-30 bilion $ second year by apple,samsung,AMD,Intel and all other smartphone company.



TSMC: We're "Far Superior" to Intel and Samsung as a Partner Fab - See more at:  year 2013 http://www.dailytech.com/TSMC+Were+Far+Superior+to+Intel+and+Samsung+as+a+Partner+Fab/article34148.htm#sthash.2SBQbwb0.dpuf
today after spending 10 bilion in FAB
http://recode.net/2015/02/04/apple-taps-samsung-to-manufacture-next-iphone-chip/

http://www.taipeitimes.com/News/biz/archives/2015/02/18/2003611800

you must contact  http://www.tsmc.com/english/default.htm tsmc produce chip You must have only $ in advance cuple year.

I'm wondering what if I buy another (couple?) S2(s) for the purpose of upgrade... Will Bitmain play the fool with us again like they did before?..

waiting for the announcement of the price.

Price will be the determining factor.  If you already have a S2 better yet, but probably not worth
buying an S2 just to upgrade.  Unless Bitmain wants to let used ones go and complete with updated
boards.  That may be an option they should look into.  Still stumped at the price of the S5 staying still.
Come on Holidays, be gone!

Ive got 2 S2 just sitting here - finally i can get some use from them! 2.5TH? not shabby

obviously the PCB kit/boards has to be cheap enough - right now the S5 pricing sucks a little bit ($370 still)

Tomato tomato, we're all speculating at this point. When the S1 upgrade kit came along it was essentially an S3.  With this S2 upgrade how is it "Certainly" not an S6 but instead an S5 (which has a completely different efficiency and frame...)?

Not a S5 per se, but to S5 level boards / tech. Its certainly not an S6 though, which will be a S2 / S4 style miner [non official].

I don't see any mention of an S5, just an S2 replacement PCB drawing 0.4 W/Gh.

Edit: This doesn't even necessarily mean upgrade kit, it might simply mean the successor to the S2 (and in turn S4).

Thx Bitmain!
Any idea on price for the new S2 PCB?

I don't see any mention of an S6, just an S2 to S5 upgrade kit.



They do it better than us, EVERYONE goes on holiday at the same time in the same few weeks of the year so its coordinated.

Is it the Chinese April Fool's too? 

I'm doubtful we'll hear much until after their Holiday, at which time they'll probably make a big post and add the product to their website in their typical fashion.  But, it's not the first time we've been promised such things as upgrade kits for S2's, and if their S1 upgrade path was any indication, it may not even be economically feasible.  Lately they've been tending to miss the boat on launch prices..

Or use good PSUs which can load-balance.

Also, I wonder if Bitmain intends to do any more talking about their off-the-cuff comment in this currently very-off-topic thread, or if they'll start a new one for the actual announcement.

i hope for, but i know i'm a bit delusional:

c1 waterblocks compatibility
possibility to use several psu's, meaning power connectors only on blades&controller board

I think the real question is...will they be cost effective? The S1 -> S3 kits were not worth the cost.

S6 yeah!

so s6 is in the testing
if the price is right, i might upgrade an s2 or 2

This one is THE ONE. And the entire country is shut down for ~2 weeks effectively that time.
The other festival is the "golden week" somewhere in October, which is roughly a week.

Awesome stuff..

Now on a totally different note..

Seriously, how many freaking festivals/Holidays do the chinese people have!? - and every time, they seem to shut Down the entire country for a week.

Good job, legkodymov...and BitMain...!!!

Cheers,

ZiG

what is the price and the content update?

YEEAAHHH!!!

God save BITMAIN!

!!!!!  thank-you

So, it wasn't based on the OneString or those Yaizo (sp?) boards or the Prisma or a couple other string designs that had come out several months or a year earlier? I don't know of anything the S5 does that's truly novel design.

Interesting (and slightly confusing due to poor translation) news from Bitmain in an ancient and forgotten thread.

More interesting is the fact that the OP wasn't a total crackpot... as anyone who had read the thread in the past surely thought.   

S2-replace PCB will be released after Chinese Spring Festival, and it will be serial powered too, and its power consumpiton at wall will be less than 0.4W/G.

Finally great news!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks to legkodymov.
S5 was based on legkodymov's serial power design, and its power consumption at wall is 0.51W/G.
S2-replace PCB will be released after Chinese Spring Festival, and it will be serial powered too, and its power consumpiton at wall will be less than 0.4W/G.

has anyone tried undervolting bitfury Rev1 or Rev2 chips to their minimum voltage range? its like 0.5V for R.2 and 0.6V for R.1

i might just do that with a nanofury if i can find a drop in replacement for the vreg

My current, not so good 40nm chips run @.63 watt
Maybe you are right, maybe not.

You are little bit wrong about smart engineers. It is like producing devices and hosting devices. Sounds similar, but in fact completely different business.

I "sell" design for cheap. Many times cheaper then develop it, because I have it already.

Yes, my pricing ratio includes PSU!!!!

no one will give or share a working prototype of a .3 watt chip.

If I had some in hand  I could sell them for 1,000,000 usd

Frankly the .3 watt chip may be like  unobtainium.  The rarest of all elements a little humor for a sat afternoon. 

As of today no one has shown that they have a .5 watt chip maybe the sp30.1 from spondoolies can do it maybe not.

Good luck with your venture, but I'd imagine that a company with engineers smart enough to make a chip with this level of performance would also have worked out a design for a cost efficient system. Your pricing ratio presumably doesn't include the costs of PSU's?

As most of you understand, only low power chips will work this winter and only those who have such chips will do profits in near future.

I would like offer a best ever miner design in exchange for such chip. What I mean of 'ideal miner'. Manufacturing costs for miner will be only around 1/5 of overall price. 4/5 of price will be net cost of chips.

Miner will run at high voltage with great efficiency ~95%.

Miner can work with nearly any chips, but I'm searching for best chip ever.

I have prototypes for different current chip manufacturers, so I can provide proof if needed. Also I have a farm for personal use that employ such technology.

PM me if you have great chips to offer, only with working samples.