Topic: Magicaldice.com(Provably fair or not..?)Warning for dicers (Read 3303 times)

lol your off dogg straight up

MagicalDice changed to the same system as you 3 days ago. And that user seems to be upset. They had a bug where betting 0.00000003, win chance 85%, you got 1 satoshi. So you had positive ev.

I don't know about the others, but JD definitely rounds down. If you bet 1 satoshi at 50% and win, you won't win anything. Your profit is calculated to be slightly less than 1 satoshi and rounded down to zero. There's a warning up the top telling you that the profit is zero:

What about nightly backups? The server seed was the same for days, so it should be contained in them. Or were they accidentally deleted as well?

nice stats blue.

Hey don't argue about nothing.

He is probably saying Stars didn't know what dev did before it got reported, or Stars lack the technical knowledge to understand what he did was wrong (I doubt that is true. Stars probably didn't check what exactly the dev did, but doesn't mean he can't understand, lol. )

Just ignore everything* you don't understand. Makes lives simple.


*From quarks and dark matter to DNA and CRISPR.

then you might want to join some tutorials kiddo,cause you really need it.
its OK if it was just to increase your acitivty,

No one understands your English, not to mention your point.

you both dont understand my point ,Star was unable to understand weather the dev did it the correct way or not as lacking technical skills.
otherwise this wouldnt have been happening.

Not understandable for me as well, but is he trying to say the dev of the site is a noob while is getting paid for the post? Thats hilarious if it is true.

lol well i dont understand someone who makes a statement that literally has no point ..and yes obvi it was there fault hardto miss that one now bud

damn that guys is so lucky....congo unibtc for your win......every dice site is fair there is  no doubt that they are not fair ...coz they wrk on seeds and all....but there are some sites which uses to AJAX particles or things which syncs the no. which the user had entered in the field....but when it comes to magical dice i dnt feel like that... its awesome website

How is that meant to be careful towards them ? on bitdice the minimum to bet is 0.001 litoshi not the 0.00000001 unit .
Yes they are not very professional it is pretty much cleared from the above done mistake,but they are LEGIT afaik and just give it time ..

i mean to say it was developers fault by not changing the client seed as well and star said he dosent has much info.. about these stuff .
what else u dont understand ?

what exactly are you trying to say..?

i know how it all looks to  NON-TECHNICAL people and plus there are very rare experienced and skilled developers in crypto world.
maybe time to change one for you people.?

Yeah, it was similar to our situation except you did it the right way, we did it the completely wrong way. Also that's what I thought was going to happen, I told our dev to change the server and client seed for Uni and I assumed by him doing this it would reveal the old server seed so he'd still be able to verify his old bets if needed. Either way, I went to sleep and woke up with Cryptasm telling me that our dev only changed the server seed and didn't change the client seed because he thought it was pointless. So I assumed everything was fine, I have no coding experience and lack a lot of knowledge on technical stuff so I didn't question our dev and thought nothing more of it until this whole situation arose.

This was definitely a lesson learnt though and won't happen again.

I don't think I ever accidentally leaked any information. One time I told a player that I had looked ahead while he was playing at very low chance of winning, so see when he was due to hit. And he freaked out on me. He told me that just by knowing his future I was changing the future, via quantum effects. So I promised I wouldn't do it any more.

Not looking makes it much easier to be in the chat. Sometimes people on long losing streaks try "fishing" for information from me. "I'm bound to hit soon, right doog?" - if I knew the answer to that question it would be difficult to know how to answer. It becomes a game of poker - do I bluff, double-bluff? And so I don't know - then I can't accidentally leak information.


I don't think so. HufflePuff had a way of discovering his server seed. If PD had changed it, he would have just made a new account and continued cheating on that one.


I found the thread accidentally all by myself.

Us dice site operators all get a little 'spooked' sometimes, and I think it's good to err on the side of caution. It's not a good idea to accuse people of cheating though, as BTC seems to be doing in that chat log. If the player isn't cheating, there's a good chance you'll offend him enough that he stops playing and so never loses his winnings back to you. And if he is, he'll just deny it anyway.

I was once concerned that server seeds may have leaked, and so even though I thought it unlikely I couldn't take that chance, and decided to reset all the server seeds. I made the site act as if all the players had clicked the 'randomize' button, resetting the server seed, revealing the old one, resetting the nonce to 0, etc. And I made the chat tell everyone about the reset each time they logged in, and every 10 minutes thereafter. For a month or two. Until people begged me to remove the notice.

yeah i should have doog from just dice stop in and he can let you know really how big of a deal it was when he had to reset the server seed and what he did to make sure the EVERYONE new that they werent using the same seed...

Yeah I definitely understand what we did was wrong and I can promise nothing like this will ever happen again. We will never ever act on impulse. If we want to make any update/changes to the website we'll for sure talk about it for a few hours as well as message people such as Nico who have a much bigger understanding on what not to do when it comes to owning a dice website.

In reality it is quite easy to tell

magicdice please generate a chart of the player profits during the time before the server seed


If the end of the chart shows the player winning money then magicdice obviously wasn't cheating but would explain why magicdice was scared the player was cheating and justifies them changing the server seed incorrectly

If the end of the chart shows the player losing money then magicdice cheated the player with fake rolls and covered their tracks by losing the server seed. They would have had no reason to be scared the player was cheating and need to change the server seed

thanks for helping with my thread and helping star to understand what exactly was so wrong with what happened cause seemed like he didnt quite understand the issue here regardless if he won n cashed out or not

Well, that's completely unverifiable now.

--

I guess the conclusion of this thread is that the server seed that unibtc was playing with was lost, which means it was either done intentionally to hide the fact some of his rolls were rigged to win back the money ... or done as a silly mistake.


I'm going to assume it was the later, as I know I've made more than my fair share of mistakes and would like people to assume the best.

The issue isn't you changed the server seed, that's not a problem at all. But if you do change the server seed you should do three things:

a) Show the previous server seed  (so past bets can be verified)
b) Prove you've committed to a server seed (i.e. give the hash of it)
c) Allow the user to pick their own client seed.


So from the sounds of it, the lack of a) is the biggest issue here. Is there a way for unibtc to verify his previous rolls?  But changing a server seed while keeping the users client seed the same is another big mistake, but something separate and mitigated by his unpredictable playing.


Well, pretty much all lucky winners look like they're cheating. You might as well assume they the best, as if they're legitimate players you risk driving them away. And if they're cheating, they're really not going to care if a mod is being rude.



Completely understandable. It sounds like that was the right thing to do, but steps a) b) and c) just need to be done as well

Yeah, the server seed is unknown because our main dev is away on holiday. Usually the main dev is making sure everything is being done properly. Our second dev changed the server seed without keeping a backup of it. Which was extremely stupid, I agree. So Uni can't verify old rolls but that was the seed he won 54 BTC with.

Ok you made a good point with changing the rolls in the 48-52 range but I don't know what else to say other than that didn't happen. There was honestly nothing malicious intended, we acted on impulse and changed his server seed quickly without giving it much thought and what the consequences would be. Like I said though, we changed the seed AFTER he withdrew the 11 BTC (that was his last big session he played). He didn't play once with the changed seed.

Unibtc isn't happy with our mod "BTC" because BTC watched Uni win over and over and change from hi to lo perfectly as well as know when to bet higher and win. Which I can't do anything about, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.



lmao that doesnt even make sense .......uni isnt happy with BTC rgw mod because he was watching him win....lol.....pretty sure what was said by uni himself was hes was unhappy with him due to remarks like "uni is done"  ...lol

winning too much dont fly i guess....lol

I don't think there was any foul play involved, but here are some things that is a little suspcious:
1. The previous server seed is unknown. and so bets cannot be verified.
2. It is possible to change the seed to something that would statistically result in more losses to unibtc. Like rolls in the 48-52 range.


On the other hand, if PD had changed the server seed of hufflepuff/robinhood they wouldn't have lost a few hundred bitcoins.

the seed is no where to be found

We changed it because we felt like our dev possibly messed up and leaked the server seed when the same roll incident happened. What we should have done is just ask him to change it himself so he knows it is 100% random and he's not given a seed which gives him more high or low numbers (Which wouldn't make sense anyway since he has no pattern, he bets hi/lo randomly)

Unibtc isn't happy with our mod "BTC" because BTC watched Uni win over and over and change from hi to lo perfectly as well as know when to bet higher and win. Which I can't do anything about, everybody is entitled to their own opinion.

As for Uni ending his session in a losing spree, That wasn't the case at all. The whole reason we changed it after that session was because he was constantly winning.

From the posts, it sounds like he ended his session in a bit of a losing spree? Is the server seed available from this period of time, as if so it should allow the verification of the whole session and put the matter to rest

He is a real deal, his name is famous in PD, MP and alot of other site too. Just because he keeps winning then this is a scary jokes from you to change the seed, this is like you are trying to make him lose and a red flag for your site. This means you dont want winner at your site?

from reading unibtc earlier posts in this thread it seems like hes not very satisfied with your moderation staff either

After his last big session when he withdrew 11 BTC, that's when we changed the server seed. He didn't bet once with this seed though.

Right and that IS how Unibtc plays. He changes from hi to lo randomly, also changes the size of the bets randomly too. So I hope that proves it was an honest and stupid mistake, that won't happen again. Regardless, Unibtc is continuing to play on our website after all of this so that definitely proves to us that he is the real deal and we were just being way too paranoid. 

If the server seed was changed at a particular nonce, the bets after that nonce should all verify using the latest server seed. If this set includes the losing streak, and unibtc was playing pretty unpredictably it's unlikely any foul play was involved.

even bigger a deal when the "original" seed was never found or seen

none of the bets verify

this thread right here is what makes me skeptical of online gambling sites. manipulating rolls or seeds period is WRONG. if you feel someone is cheating your site you need to address that issue with that user. you dont go fucking with shit trying to prove a point. sure you admitted your actions were wrong and apologized to the user for messing with his shit. BIG DEAL IMO. the actions prove to the rest of us that maybe this shit happens more than we know and we are losing not  just because of bad luck but more because of corruption.

any of you ever notice now n then your rolls start lagging real bad? or other little things?

It should be pretty easy to figure out at what nonce the server seed was changed (just work backwards until the bets doen't verify). And if the site has the original server seed then the bets before that nonce could be verified, which would make sure that the server seed change wasn't hiding unfair bets (that's assuming that unibtc was betting in a reasonably difficult to predict manner) and that it was just a silly mistake  =)


Or even if the site doesn't have the original server seed (which is a concerning red flag), it would still make sense to verify as many of the last bets as possible using the latest server seed and check if a losing streak fell under the latest server seed. If the losing streak happened to fall on unverifiable period, that would be another red flag.


(Although to be honest, I suspect the whole thing is just a silly mistake but the whole point of provably fair is that we can verify not trust)

haa your not even worth this shit lmao you aint worth the time your nothing but bs anyways say what you want start whatever littlebitch dramayou want lmao ill just sit back and laugh and watch n see how much of pussy you are last thing i need to do is waste time proving my self to a fake ass fuckin shit talkin hater like you but yeah go ahead and run your mouth like the bitch you are see how much i give a fuck

lol that makes you even a bigger fucking joke

your a fuckin joke a dude

i thought it was true. seeing you betting today. so its not true. ok then. dont stress over it

yeah well i just told that idiot right now too and dont start with that bs dude i see you every fuckin day dude not like we werent just talkin a fuckin hour ago like dog really wtf is this stupid shit even about bro like foreal though

i never see you anymore so i posted here. its cool if its not true dont get so fired up about it then. just say it wasnt true.

which you did. case closed


but someone did say that to me blue

idk who the fuck told you that dude but tell em they need to fuckin check there fuckin facts before they start opening there mouth bro i ever got anything from uni dude idk who the fuck cameup with that bs dude but thats some bs whoever is ut me behind my backlike a bitch would do if someone wanted to ask if uni gave me 2 btc for whatever fuckin reason that thought dawned upon them then they can ask me dude come on now dawg wtf dude foreal

someone told me unibtc gave you 2 btc. maybe hes fucking with me

your fuckin kiddin me right now cbi right

hi blue its cbi. you got 2btc from unibtc and couldnt come by and say hi to me? thanks buddy. friend.


you know if i got 2btc i would have found you and help you out

Another conversation with your very nice mod BTC..



Now i really do demand an apology.  

Modification of server-seed is not fair , Site should never interfere in this as it would highly affect the future outcomes of the dice being rolled.
I don't know why you guys did that , if your dev is smart enough then these things should not have happened , the site has been launched two weeks ago and it has been favorite of players but has been in issues even much more.
I must admit that i have played there quite often but the first experience was very much Fair but a recent experience was worst and i guess there has been done a lots of modification for the former to loose.

I just did a small run.. and im up 0.7.. So i guess that proves im not cheating..

Tho i have not received any apology from other admins even tho they have went online.. and i also demand an apology from your mod BTC.. thats all =)  

Our dev messed up and reset the server seed only. He thought that was all that was needed. Regardless, we understand that it was a pretty big mistake. When our dev comes online we will make sure Uni will be able to verify all previous rolls.

Now, that is pretty awkward. If the seed was changed, it shouldn't affect what shows up on previous bets.

When the server seed was reset, was the nonce set back to 0?


Admins/Dev shouldn't interfere with the provably fair system. By any interference, they are completely changing the future rolls, and changing the future decisions the player makes.

good move for you to post this. Even if the problem has been solved it still needs to be posted because it is unnetichal to suddenly change the seed because you suspect someone. If you think there is a hole in the system, fix it and dont change the seed without confirmation

well said and yup i thought it was something that should be done and something everyone should know about ..hope you dont mind iposted but def felt like everyone should be aware of the incident

Like Stars said, this has been resolved, I accepted his/her apology regarding this matter. I guess BLUE just wanted everyone to know what happened as a future reference "incase" something like this happened again in the future, whether it will be on the same site or other sites.

Looking at the screenshot of the chat conversation tho..

Mod BTC tried to stop Bluewaffle from saying his own opinion on the matter, and said that to let unibtc and stars talk about the issue. AND YET, after some few chats, he strongly, blatantly, blankly accused me of cheating.. There is no proof of this claim of his, neither the admins nor the devs could not prove otherwise. I have given my real life information, my real life finance information and complied to whatever they needed. And yet this mod just shoot away with his accusation. Would you trust a someone like this to be you mod? I wouldn't, then again its just me.

Anyway, for everyone's information, this has been resolved, Stars have apologized, and he/she said other admins will do too once they get online.

There is no cheating nor exploiting that happened, its just a decision made by the admins which is not right and should not happen again.

-unibtc

As far as I'm aware all dice site admins have this ability.  They know the server seed which is created by them and have them stored somewhere. Beacuse of the nonce method; unless the user is changing their client seed each roll the admins will be able to predetermine future rolls.

It would be a little unnerving to think they have this information readily available to them. Even without any intentions of cheating their users its quite possible they could leak information about future rolls and inadvertently cause issues.

I know dooglus had been known to look ahead from time to time but stopped when he accidentally gave up information to a better.

Pretty sure he did change it in the database yeah.

Every website has that power. It's not like we did it to everyone, we did it to unibtc because we thought it was possible he had the server seed from when the same roll incident happened.

Maybe the dev changed the seed secret directly in the database to the user unibtc and it is lost now.

Yup I understand that you didn't cheat unibtc, but you do have the power to cheat other people , not saying you would but seems shady for you to have that  kind of power. AFAIK most people don't check every one of their bets for fairness, and you have the power to use it to your advantage if you find a HR with a particular stratergy.

It may look serious and possibly malicious, but I can promise you those weren't our intentions. Even if they were, as far as I know the only way we could cheat if Unibtc had a pattern and we gave him a seed which messed his pattern up. E.g if he would only roll under 49.5 we would give him a seed that rolls a lot of high numbers. But that's not the case at all because if you've watched Unibtc bet, he doesn't have a pattern. He switches from hi to lo randomly and also bets random amounts.

So, you can actually change server seeds from the admin panel? That seems quite serious seeing you can change server seed as you do also know what the roll result will be.

This issue has already been resolved, I've spoken with Unibtc about it. But I will explain in detail, what happened for all you people wondering.

Magicaldice has been open for just over 2 weeks, so when Unibtc came to our website and managed to profit 54 BTC there was definitely red flags raised and questions that needed answering. The main concern being that Uni knew exactly when to switch from hi to lo and knew exactly when to change his bet from 1 btc to 2 btc. This happened on probably 25-30 separate occasions which A LOT of people pointed out to us, so it wasn't only us thinking there was something strange going on, it was others too.

Regardless, we still had no proof so we paid out all of his winnings. Although yesterday we did ask him to show us who he is, he gave us his ID, bank statements and also added me on FB with the same name on the statement + ID so everything seemed to check out. We also got him to verify some of his accounts that he played on, on other dice websites. We thought if he could prove he plays a lot on other sites, this would also strengthen the idea that he really is a legitimate player and just got lucky. After all of that, we we're pretty confident maybe he did just get lucky.

Let me bring you back a week or so to when we experienced a pretty big bug. Our dev was fixing a few things to do with roll speed and he accidentally fucked up pretty big. He made it so all rolls would produce the same result, and the nonce would stay the same. We fixed this issue fairly quickly and nobody got harmed since we re-set balances to the amount they were at before the issue occurred. Unibtc was online when this happened and that was where he managed to cash out 3 btc due to constantly winning (because roll was the same) and kindly gave them back to us. Now we forgot all about this until yesterday when we started thinking about it some more and we thought what if a user didn't re-set their seeds since then, maybe it's a possibility that it could have messed up future rolls or somehow leaked the server seed without us realizing it. So for that reason, we thought ok.. it still may be possible Unibtc has some sort of exploit. Maybe he knows the server seed and that's how he knows when to switch from hi to low and when to switch from 1 btc to 2 btc bets. So because of that possibility, which I admit probably was very small we decided to change Unibtc's server seed without telling him. The reason for not telling him was because we wanted to see if he'd continue to bet and if he did continue to bet then it proves to us that he probably is a legitimate player and we're just being paranoid. The correct decision was to message Uni and kindly ask him to re-set his seeds though, which is where we fucked up. We acted on impulse without thinking about it, our thought process was, "there's a possibility he's using an exploit? Ok, let's remove that possibility".

Like I said, I've spoken with Unibtc and although he was mad at first he did eventually understand where I was coming from and accepted my apology for not telling him in advance about re-setting his server seed.

No, the server seed hash shouldn't have changed, and if it did, the server seed itself should have been in the second screenshot.

Not accusing anyone of anything or it wouldnt be in this section..but just thought this needed to be out there for the people to see...and you got a good point there about primedice...except with this particular incident they did so and didnt reset nonces and theres literally no way to verify the previous bets........

And how is it possible for him to cheat?

Ahh ok, you didn't tell me to look at the server seeds.

Yes, it seems they changed the encrypted SHA 256 of the server seed without notifying the users and without publishing the secret of the hash.

It seems fishy but I think they just made a mistake not telling the users to generate a new client seed + server seed as primedice has done many times.

what makes you say that?

Unibtc was a probably cheating, got caught

Guess i should have mentioned that  ...YES LOOK AT SERVER HASH
lol what do you expect though from noob;p

Take a look at the server seed hashes.

That one guy was very lucky. And no, the winner is not the same guy as the owners.

Same thing can happen on primedice, just-dice or luckyb.it is just LUCK.

So whats everyones thought on this about the newest dice site to be introduced to btc community (magicaldice.com)


http://i.imgur.com/KXcIS9j.png



http://i.imgur.com/Sp046W0.png



Sorry about the sloppy work made it fast but it doesnt matter in a situations like this in my opinion..


please let  me know your thoughts....