Major mistake all traders make | Bitcointalksearch.org

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: GoldenLad on March 01, 2018, 04:29:34 PM

I think to make it in day trading, one has to maintain a working and certain strategy that could be maintained for long time. Though, I don't day trade but I have heard and read that it could be way risky than the normal cryptocurrency trading if not properly managed. I think its best if one brings out a certain amount of money for day trading to prevent them from losing all investment when no gain is made. At least this will convince the traders to know when to quit.

Actually, it is not as risky as it is boring. Basically, when you get the hang of it, it becomes more like a daily treadmill routine rather than a fascinating journey. So if it is not your thing, then definitely stay away from it. Many people have tried their hand at this and they left not because they lost but because they thought the profits they earned were not worth it. And for them, it is likely the best choice.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: helen28 on March 01, 2018, 10:11:28 AM

Major mistakes that a traders makes was when they don't know how to control themselves or how to discipline themselves, well all of us here has started with less understanding or even zero knowledge when it comes to trading so it is up to us how we will gonna study it.

It is not only about controlling your actions and bridling your emotions. This is nowhere near enough, though it is definitely a required prerequisite for a successful trading journey, one of. It is not about just acting in cold blood, in a purposely ruthless and unfeeling manner, it is also about choosing the right direction of your trading decisions. And personally, I would rather stick with the latter still being emotional and all that. Really, what's the purpose of being emotionless if you are losing, even though in a somewhat disciplined and controlled way?

This seems to be another interesting facet of trading.

Digital_Lord

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Quote from: gabmen on March 01, 2018, 07:43:23 AM

Quote from: Basmic on February 28, 2018, 01:33:26 PM

You should always have a supply of Fiat. If you really missed a moment to sell your coins then it is better to stop selling coins and pause. Most cryptocurrencies recover after a fall. This allows a failed trader to recover lost capital and think about changing his profession. But from errors nobody is insured. If you react to market behavior in time, you can quickly recover losses.

Yeah and usually it takes time before a trader develops patience and composure to survive a drop. Sometimes it takes longer before a coin recovers and people give up on their coins. It's true that you only really lose a trade is if you sell at a loss.

You only end up losing if you sell at a loss at the wrong time. There are some times that several indicators will give you a signal about the market and then it is left for you to make use of those signals to you advantage on when to drop from a market and look out for another buy in indicator.

A lot of people have complained that TA does not work, and sometimes, yes it may not, but it is rare as long as you do your analysis well.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: ivrynx on March 01, 2018, 09:09:45 AM

From what i see and hear and alsk have had experience, there are several mistakes that investors always do, first is they tend to think that they already know what they are doing without relying on the charts, they tend to speculate more rather than do analysis. Second, they tend to be greedy, they rely on their speculation that a certain coin will go high in value, but failed to do further research on the coin, they might bought it at a low price, but it may not go higher than they think, and they might just be set up for a trap. Third one that is see, is they go with the flow, they invest on the hottest coin and again failed to research the coin as well, theh never see to it, when is the best time to buy and sell, that's the reason why people loose a lot of money. The main reason that i see why investors makes major mistakes is that they fail to do research and in all cases, that is the reason they loose, be it a new investor or an old one.

I agree with your in-depth inquiry into the types of mistakes that many traders and investors do, especially the rookie ones. All these mistakes are real without doubt, but they can still be characterized or explained using the methodology outlined in OP. For example, you say that mistakes are due to a lack of proper analysis. But how do we know beforehand that an analysis performed was (not) proper? It may be quite extensive but this alone doesn't make it correct, right? So the real question should be whether an analysis is correct or not correct with respect to future prices. But we can't know that in advance before we actually open a position. And here's the core of the problem discussed. When you see that your analysis is incorrect, no matter how much effort you put into it you should immediately accept that humble fact and take steps to minimize your losses. I think this approach is more practical and robust but you are welcome to discuss it further, of course.

justspare

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Quote from: ivrynx on March 01, 2018, 09:09:45 AM

From what i see and hear and alsk have had experience, there are several mistakes that investors always do, first is they tend to think that they already know what they are doing without relying on the charts, they tend to speculate more rather than do analysis. Second, they tend to be greedy, they rely on their speculation that a certain coin will go high in value, but failed to do further research on the coin, they might bought it at a low price, but it may not go higher than they think, and they might just be set up for a trap. Third one that is see, is they go with the flow, they invest on the hottest coin and again failed to research the coin as well, theh never see to it, when is the best time to buy and sell, that's the reason why people loose a lot of money. The main reason that i see why investors makes major mistakes is that they fail to do research and in all cases, that is the reason they loose, be it a new investor or an old one.

That is a mistake that everyone who hits the charts without learning and either following other people's opinion to trade, or gambling their positions without the use of any indicator but the mindset that as long as they buy low and sell high, they are good.

That is how a lot of them always end up losing their funds. TA and the use of indicators are there for reasons and they are not decorations, and anyone who feels they can just do it on their own, I am really looking forward to their success stories.

upsidedown75

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on March 01, 2018, 12:57:17 PM

Quote from: Bitcotalk on February 27, 2018, 07:34:29 AM

Quote from: ktabb on February 20, 2018, 06:38:10 AM

The biggest mistake that day traders make (especially crypto day traders) is believing that they have an edge over everyone else because of the charts they look at. The biggest mistake is not believing that day trading is 100% gambling, because that is exactly what it is. The only way to consistently make money over the long term is to invest based on value and fundamentals.

Only if they could end up knowing that it pays to either do short or long positions in the market than spending the whole hour in front of a chart trying to day trade.

I agree with you that day trading is 100% gambling but it is worth the risk anyway and they have a place in the market, I have been there but even though all you use is RSI or stoch to buy into an oversold market, sometimes, you may just end up missing the other indicators to know when a market is turning long term bearish, which obviously brings the stop loss into play anyway.

As an aside, I always find it amusing that in TA you can always look for an indicator or two which would have predicted the recent price move close to perfect. The problem is you would know that only in hindsight. Simply put, TA works at all times, it is just a matter of finding the right indicator or method, though there is no guarantee that it will work next time. Apart from very simple techniques like spotting a trend, for which you don't even need TA in the first place, it is mostly complete mumbo-jumbo to me. Sorry if I hurt your feelings here TA guys.

No, you are not hurting those feelings because you are right and all traders know that sometimes, even TA may go wrong and that is why you set emotion apart and see how to get back into a position you left if things end up turning the other way round. One thing with a market is that, there would always be a time to step back in and to monitor the trend, which can still give you a chance of not missing at all. However, for a good TA and very good use of indicators, you will make huge percentage of better decisions than bad ones.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: ?? on ??

The biggest mistake which new traders make is that they purchase some coins thee price of which increases quickly due to FOMO without actually knowing that its being pumped.

Some times the mistake what bitcoin traders do is that when they see bitcoin price falling,they wrongly predict it that bitcoin price would crash and they short their bitcoins with an idea o buying back those bitcoins at a much lower price.But unfortunately,bitcoin price starts increasing and they lose the game.This situation was even experienced a few months before by bitcoin traders due to wrong prediction.

I suggest that weekend or couch traders should stay away from shorting altogether. Naked shorts are a short road to disaster even for professional and highly experienced traders. Personally, I use shorts only if I properly hedge them, so in the worst case scenario my losses would be minimal if any. If you are tempted to short a coin, remember first that your profit side is limited while your losses are limited only by the size of your deposit.

malikusama

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Quote from: magneto on February 20, 2018, 05:23:28 PM

The most common mistake would be panic selling and weak hands, honestly.

If you invest in bitcoin then you are probably going to have to prepare for the long term. Trading bitcoin short term will mess up your entire trading psychology because you'll keep on trying to go for just that little more profits.

If you are trading bitcoin short term, make sure that you have a stop loss level in mind, and a target where you sell your coins. Otherwise, you'll always fall into the hole of selling low and buying high.

Indeed you explained quite well, the high expectations of beginners or inexperienced traders in a short period of time is the reason why they go for the panic selling during a dip. You should need to keep your calm in long term trading.

Claudyah

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Quote from: MartynasB on February 20, 2018, 06:41:27 AM

In my opinion, big mistake that a lot of new traders chase coins that price is growing fast like it was with Iota, Tron ant etc. They buy coins at all time high and think that it will grow much more

Minimize emotional involvement in stock transactions (if not eliminate). Emotion is one form of human subjectivity. Distinguish between emotion and instinct; new instinct can be gained from experience but there is still possibility to be wrong. Be sure to be ready with all possibilities.

Dreamchaser21

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Quote from: bitcad4u on March 03, 2018, 12:21:45 PM

Trading is not easy as like the posting,we should have huge knowledge before to start trade.Because with out the knowledge you had start a trade means,by seeing the minor fluctuation of price,you will buy the bitcoin with high price.So it's better to analysis the past chart of bitcoin,before you start trading.If you buy a bitcoin with 300$ lesser than current market price means,you can avoid huge loss even though fall in price.

Posting is not easy, you also need huge knowledge about this thing, well trading on the other hand is almost the same but with a higher risk so make sure you have to study everything about it because traders biggest mistake is to done it without proper knowledge.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: raven7886 on March 03, 2018, 08:33:27 AM

Quote from: A L I E N on March 02, 2018, 08:11:12 AM

Quote from: mia khalifa on February 23, 2018, 11:21:53 PM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

most mistakes made by a trading player is that the player can not control his emotions and control his patience because his key trading is to have a very high patience if you do not have very high patience is certainly likely to get a loss.

The biggest mistake that people make (I do not mean here only traders) is that they are all in a hurry. We need to learn how to be patient and wait until the right moment comes.

Lol, patience also has some level of degree. Patience when a market is just showing some slight movement and you know it is still in the present trend or patience when the market is showing a change of trend and you are still in your present position.

Anyone who wants to be a long term holder, there is no harm in that, it is good, but putting too much patience into trading without the use of your analysis unless you are the type that is just buying at any bottom and expecting a huge rise to sell, then you may have the patience, but be careful the bottom you are buying as it may still be a top.

Agree with this point. People generally seem to overestimate the importance of patience (being patient). It is not patience (or lack thereof) that they should actually care about. They should rather think about what makes them impatient in the first place. And this is a gaping lack of knowledge and understanding. Really, if you knew for certain that the price would rise tomorrow or in a week or so, would you be so impatient about it today?

The lesson to take home is that if you feel impatient and restless for some obscure reason, it is most certainly that you are missing some important detail in the whole picture.

bitcad4u

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Trading is not easy as like the posting,we should have huge knowledge before to start trade.Because with out the knowledge you had start a trade means,by seeing the minor fluctuation of price,you will buy the bitcoin with high price.So it's better to analysis the past chart of bitcoin,before you start trading.If you buy a bitcoin with 300$ lesser than current market price means,you can avoid huge loss even though fall in price.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: automail on February 28, 2018, 08:02:10 PM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

I agree. The rules of the game is simple, if the price is at its peak, don't even think of buying it. In my case, I always buy a coin when its at least 50% below of its price below (it depends, not usually the case). I found 3 coins who has then I sold it after 3 months. I gained some and I never regret my decision because I hold it long enough and I needed the money. The price went down on the 4th month but it recovered plus 10% on the 5th month. Always trust your instinct but be close to reality. You know what it is.

Actually, I like your trading strategy as long as you keep decent coins in your investment portfolio. As history has shown, expecting a ~50% major price retreat is not unfounded since such fallbacks are quite common these days and they can be used as a staple of a long-term trading strategy. As long as the cryptoverse expands, any correction will sooner or later be followed by a major bull rally, so it is kind of sure bet. But be warned, crypto won't expand infinitely.

Lancusters

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No trader can predict the depth of failure. Those traders who work on short trades will never keep the coins if they show a stable downward trend. They always fix their profit or loss very quickly. Those people who are set up for long-term storage of coins are not traders. They use crypto-currencies as a Deposit. These are completely different strategies.

raven7886

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Quote from: A L I E N on March 02, 2018, 08:11:12 AM

Quote from: mia khalifa on February 23, 2018, 11:21:53 PM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

most mistakes made by a trading player is that the player can not control his emotions and control his patience because his key trading is to have a very high patience if you do not have very high patience is certainly likely to get a loss.

The biggest mistake that people make (I do not mean here only traders) is that they are all in a hurry. We need to learn how to be patient and wait until the right moment comes.

Lol, patience also has some level of degree. Patience when a market is just showing some slight movement and you know it is still in the present trend or patience when the market is showing a change of trend and you are still in your present position.

Anyone who wants to be a long term holder, there is no harm in that, it is good, but putting too much patience into trading without the use of your analysis unless you are the type that is just buying at any bottom and expecting a huge rise to sell, then you may have the patience, but be careful the bottom you are buying as it may still be a top.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: Basmic on February 28, 2018, 01:33:26 PM

You should always have a supply of Fiat. If you really missed a moment to sell your coins then it is better to stop selling coins and pause. Most cryptocurrencies recover after a fall. This allows a failed trader to recover lost capital and think about changing his profession. But from errors nobody is insured. If you react to market behavior in time, you can quickly recover losses.

Bitcoin had been quite forgiving in this regard until recently. But if you bought a few bitcoins at $20k in December and the price will never get there again in the future, you are pretty much screwed. Besides, I can't agree that most cryptocurrencies actually recover over time. The vast majority of these coins are clear-cut pump&dump scams, and not running from them in due time means losing money (still better would be staying away from them). So it is not about recovering losses like averaging down, waiting out, or anything to that tune.

A L I E N

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Quote from: mia khalifa on February 23, 2018, 11:21:53 PM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

most mistakes made by a trading player is that the player can not control his emotions and control his patience because his key trading is to have a very high patience if you do not have very high patience is certainly likely to get a loss.

The biggest mistake that people make (I do not mean here only traders) is that they are all in a hurry. We need to learn how to be patient and wait until the right moment comes.

GoldenLad

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I think to make it in day trading, one has to maintain a working and certain strategy that could be maintained for long time. Though, I don't day trade but I have heard and read that it could be way risky than the normal cryptocurrency trading if not properly managed. I think its best if one brings out a certain amount of money for day trading to prevent them from losing all investment when no gain is made. At least this will convince the traders to know when to quit.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: Bitcotalk on February 27, 2018, 07:34:29 AM

Quote from: ktabb on February 20, 2018, 06:38:10 AM

The biggest mistake that day traders make (especially crypto day traders) is believing that they have an edge over everyone else because of the charts they look at. The biggest mistake is not believing that day trading is 100% gambling, because that is exactly what it is. The only way to consistently make money over the long term is to invest based on value and fundamentals.

Only if they could end up knowing that it pays to either do short or long positions in the market than spending the whole hour in front of a chart trying to day trade.

I agree with you that day trading is 100% gambling but it is worth the risk anyway and they have a place in the market, I have been there but even though all you use is RSI or stoch to buy into an oversold market, sometimes, you may just end up missing the other indicators to know when a market is turning long term bearish, which obviously brings the stop loss into play anyway.

As an aside, I always find it amusing that in TA you can always look for an indicator or two which would have predicted the recent price move close to perfect. The problem is you would know that only in hindsight. Simply put, TA works at all times, it is just a matter of finding the right indicator or method, though there is no guarantee that it will work next time. Apart from very simple techniques like spotting a trend, for which you don't even need TA in the first place, it is mostly complete mumbo-jumbo to me. Sorry if I hurt your feelings here TA guys.

helen28

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Quote from: ivrynx on March 01, 2018, 09:09:45 AM

From what i see and hear and alsk have had experience, there are several mistakes that investors always do, first is they tend to think that they already know what they are doing without relying on the charts, they tend to speculate more rather than do analysis. Second, they tend to be greedy, they rely on their speculation that a certain coin will go high in value, but failed to do further research on the coin, they might bought it at a low price, but it may not go higher than they think, and they might just be set up for a trap. Third one that is see, is they go with the flow, they invest on the hottest coin and again failed to research the coin as well, theh never see to it, when is the best time to buy and sell, that's the reason why people loose a lot of money. The main reason that i see why investors makes major mistakes is that they fail to do research and in all cases, that is the reason they loose, be it a new investor or an old one.

Major mistakes that a traders makes was when they don't know how to control themselves or how to discipline themselves, well all of us here has started with less understanding or even zero knowledge when it comes to trading so it is up to us how we will gonna study it.

ivrynx

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From what i see and hear and alsk have had experience, there are several mistakes that investors always do, first is they tend to think that they already know what they are doing without relying on the charts, they tend to speculate more rather than do analysis. Second, they tend to be greedy, they rely on their speculation that a certain coin will go high in value, but failed to do further research on the coin, they might bought it at a low price, but it may not go higher than they think, and they might just be set up for a trap. Third one that is see, is they go with the flow, they invest on the hottest coin and again failed to research the coin as well, theh never see to it, when is the best time to buy and sell, that's the reason why people loose a lot of money. The main reason that i see why investors makes major mistakes is that they fail to do research and in all cases, that is the reason they loose, be it a new investor or an old one.

gabmen

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Quote from: Basmic on February 28, 2018, 01:33:26 PM

You should always have a supply of Fiat. If you really missed a moment to sell your coins then it is better to stop selling coins and pause. Most cryptocurrencies recover after a fall. This allows a failed trader to recover lost capital and think about changing his profession. But from errors nobody is insured. If you react to market behavior in time, you can quickly recover losses.

Yeah and usually it takes time before a trader develops patience and composure to survive a drop. Sometimes it takes longer before a coin recovers and people give up on their coins. It's true that you only really lose a trade is if you sell at a loss.

automail

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

I agree. The rules of the game is simple, if the price is at its peak, don't even think of buying it. In my case, I always buy a coin when its at least 50% below of its price below (it depends, not usually the case). I found 3 coins who has then I sold it after 3 months. I gained some and I never regret my decision because I hold it long enough and I needed the money. The price went down on the 4th month but it recovered plus 10% on the 5th month. Always trust your instinct but be close to reality. You know what it is.

AVAMONEY

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If we call traders, then of course this refers to people who do daily trading, not those who buy assets and save for a long time.
In trading, 15% news, 15% chart and most 70% are speculation. Measures such as cut-loss are necessary if the price reduction is very fast and the market trend is negatively down for all coins. Because the bearish trend can certainly last for several days, in this case we call it as correction, while for recovery price will usually run slowly. So the decision wisely if the market conditions worsen then you can cut-loss and wait at the bottom price to buy, even though this means you are included in the condition of panic-sell trend.

Basmic

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You should always have a supply of Fiat. If you really missed a moment to sell your coins then it is better to stop selling coins and pause. Most cryptocurrencies recover after a fall. This allows a failed trader to recover lost capital and think about changing his profession. But from errors nobody is insured. If you react to market behavior in time, you can quickly recover losses.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: rocketbits on February 27, 2018, 02:31:36 AM

I so much agree with you on this. I have made that mistake sometimes back and I ended up learning from it anyway which has really made things to work out pretty well for me over time and make good decisions. Normally, every trader should always know what to even look out for in a trade, either they are following trend, using indicators to see what is going on with some TA and FAs to make their decisions. It was obvious for any trader to see that bitcoin was tapping down and everything showed a bear market, but of course, some are just in the game without knowledge or strategy which is what makes the difference.

You're welcome, bro!

Quote from: Bitcotalk on February 27, 2018, 07:34:29 AM

Only if they could end up knowing that it pays to either do short or long positions in the market than spending the whole hour in front of a chart trying to day trade.

I agree with you that day trading is 100% gambling but it is worth the risk anyway and they have a place in the market, I have been there but even though all you use is RSI or stoch to buy into an oversold market, sometimes, you may just end up missing the other indicators to know when a market is turning long term bearish, which obviously brings the stop loss into play anyway.

No trader can do without it, and the essence is to buy back in a better position for a better gain than waiting for the market to recover in one position while missing good opportunities.

Stop-losses shouldn't be made into a fetish of sorts. Thoughtlessly placing them just because so was written in a book on trading is not very far from equally thoughtlessly not placing them. As I have explained before, exchanges see these orders and use artificial flash crashes to trigger them. To put it differently, you should be as savvy about placing your stop-loss orders as about not placing them at all. If you stick to TA, they are a must-have normally, but if you follow fundamentals, they are pretty much meaningless. If fundamentals change, you just exit your position immediately and get done with that, so no stop-loss is hurt in the process.

Bustart

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Quote from: JC btc on February 28, 2018, 10:31:17 AM

Quote from: TERA2 on February 28, 2018, 02:17:44 AM

Quote from: Remember remember the 5th of November on February 27, 2018, 12:45:21 PM

Another major mistake I see traders make, is looking for patterns in 1,5,15m charts. Those are just noise most of the time. It really bothers me how many people see "triangles", channels in a 1m chart. This is absurd.

No these are the most profitable timeframes to trade on a high volume day. Why make a 50% profit once when you can make it 6 times? If you're not watching that 1m you're going to miss that huge instantaneous jump and the price for you to buy will be 25% higher.

One of the mistakes was making a decision when we are too emotional or sensitive, for example we have seen the price goes up we are too excited and we put large amount of money, likewise when the price goes down we do panic and withdrawing or converting our coins to bitcoin.

I strongly agree! Too much excitement does not always give satisfying results. Another thing that triggers mistake is when you don't expect the unexpected and not being prepared. Same thing goes with too much illusion of expecting to become rich any time soon which in fact it does not happen just a blink of an eye. It needs extreme study, research and strong-decision making tactics.Awareness is crucial towards prosperity and improvement. Mistakes are all part of the process, but if it happens repeatedly then it's another story. Eliminating unprofitable habit and bad behavior is way better to annihilate these mistakes from happening over and over again.

JC btc

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Quote from: TERA2 on February 28, 2018, 02:17:44 AM

Quote from: Remember remember the 5th of November on February 27, 2018, 12:45:21 PM

Another major mistake I see traders make, is looking for patterns in 1,5,15m charts. Those are just noise most of the time. It really bothers me how many people see "triangles", channels in a 1m chart. This is absurd.

No these are the most profitable timeframes to trade on a high volume day. Why make a 50% profit once when you can make it 6 times? If you're not watching that 1m you're going to miss that huge instantaneous jump and the price for you to buy will be 25% higher.

One of the mistakes was making a decision when we are too emotional or sensitive, for example we have seen the price goes up we are too excited and we put large amount of money, likewise when the price goes down we do panic and withdrawing or converting our coins to bitcoin.

TERA2

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Deb Rah Von Doom

Quote from: Remember remember the 5th of November on February 27, 2018, 12:45:21 PM

Another major mistake I see traders make, is looking for patterns in 1,5,15m charts. Those are just noise most of the time. It really bothers me how many people see "triangles", channels in a 1m chart. This is absurd.

No these are the most profitable timeframes to trade on a high volume day. Why make a 50% profit once when you can make it 6 times? If you're not watching that 1m you're going to miss that huge instantaneous jump and the price for you to buy will be 25% higher.

STT

legendary

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Its not quite wrong but it takes a massive amount of skill to grab a trend from such a short time frame. Lots of profits to know direction so fast as it can mean bets 4 or more an hour paying off.

But yep correct, I'd say go for 4hr bars as a basic way to divide up the hemispheres globally that trade and have their own influence. As the sun sets on one part of the world another begins to wake up and digest the news with their own bias and influence on prices. So 4hr gaps fits into 24hr pattern quite well and it should be easier to spot trends over time like this more easily then guessing just static like you say.

Some swear by daily and weekly for the more laid back investment and again the trends are there with more certainity. BTC never closes ever, thats the hard thing, Forex and most markets have a closing bar every friday and this adds to certainty in price.

Remember remember the 5th of November

legendary

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Reverse engineer from time to time

Another major mistake I see traders make, is looking for patterns in 1,5,15m charts. Those are just noise most of the time. It really bothers me how many people see "triangles", channels in a 1m chart. This is absurd.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: Daimon88 on February 27, 2018, 01:08:37 AM

Quote from: MartynasB on February 20, 2018, 06:41:27 AM

In my opinion, big mistake that a lot of new traders chase coins that price is growing fast like it was with Iota, Tron ant etc. They buy coins at all time high and think that it will grow much more

That is a mistake that starts from the main mistake of not learning, gambling the market and expecting that every day is going to be Christmas. I call that trying to jump a fast moving train and that is like the most dangerous thing anyone can ever do. I would rather say the most common mistake some traders make is not having a strategy, because if you do, there is no way you will never have your profit: loss ratio in mind and know what to look out for before even placing your buy order.

This is a good observation and I was thinking about something to that tune myself, more specifically how well it fits into the scheme presented in this topic or how well such actions can be explained in the scope of the idea I am taking about here. It could be said that when people jump into the market without any clue about what they are doing, they are basically in the same position when they find themselves confused and helpless due to a sudden unexpected price change, just blindly hoping for the better. Though in the former case, they themselves are the cause of this situation, not market forces are involved as in the latter case. In other words, if you don't know where to go, no wind will be favorable.

Bitcotalk

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Quote from: ktabb on February 20, 2018, 06:38:10 AM

The biggest mistake that day traders make (especially crypto day traders) is believing that they have an edge over everyone else because of the charts they look at. The biggest mistake is not believing that day trading is 100% gambling, because that is exactly what it is. The only way to consistently make money over the long term is to invest based on value and fundamentals.

Only if they could end up knowing that it pays to either do short or long positions in the market than spending the whole hour in front of a chart trying to day trade.

I agree with you that day trading is 100% gambling but it is worth the risk anyway and they have a place in the market, I have been there but even though all you use is RSI or stoch to buy into an oversold market, sometimes, you may just end up missing the other indicators to know when a market is turning long term bearish, which obviously brings the stop loss into play anyway.

No trader can do without it, and the essence is to buy back in a better position for a better gain than waiting for the market to recover in one position while missing good opportunities.

Altcoins enthusiast

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

Thank you op very much for this view you have and I think you have make a very strong fact here. I believe that trading and investment is a very serious things and we should not just invest without having in mind what we what to do and have a strong plan about our entry point and exist points. Many use stop loss and take profit to control their profits and loss position.

rocketbits

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

I so much agree with you on this. I have made that mistake sometimes back and I ended up learning from it anyway which has really made things to work out pretty well for me over time and make good decisions. Normally, every trader should always know what to even look out for in a trade, either they are following trend, using indicators to see what is going on with some TA and FAs to make their decisions. It was obvious for any trader to see that bitcoin was tapping down and everything showed a bear market, but of course, some are just in the game without knowledge or strategy which is what makes the difference.

Daimon88

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Quote from: MartynasB on February 20, 2018, 06:41:27 AM

In my opinion, big mistake that a lot of new traders chase coins that price is growing fast like it was with Iota, Tron ant etc. They buy coins at all time high and think that it will grow much more

That is a mistake that starts from the main mistake of not learning, gambling the market and expecting that every day is going to be Christmas. I call that trying to jump a fast moving train and that is like the most dangerous thing anyone can ever do. I would rather say the most common mistake some traders make is not having a strategy, because if you do, there is no way you will never have your profit: loss ratio in mind and know what to look out for before even placing your buy order.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: sofi@ on February 24, 2018, 06:59:29 PM

I think this only applies to those beginners who are afraid of taking risk and to those who haven't experience failure in trading. For a beginner who want to take trading they must read this and understand how the market goes. They will experience sudden pump or dump but they should not worry, instead take this as an opportunity for more investment as cryptos nature is very volatile and unpredictable.

In my opinion there is no common denominator apart from what I'm discussing here. In other words, it doesn't matter whether you are an experienced trader or beginner, you should at least get worried if the market falls suddenly and entirely unexpected for you. It may or may not be an opportunity but rationalizing it in the way you suggest doesn't look very appealing to me. It can bring you peace of mind, of course, but I don't think this is what most traders are looking for. They are looking for profits, not a feeling of being safe or protected.

STT

legendary

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Quote from: Slark on February 23, 2018, 05:21:07 PM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on February 20, 2018, 11:34:20 PM

As a long-term holder, I just HODL. That saves me a lot of headaches and a lot of trading commissions. You just put an example of what newbies do: to buy after the last ath out of FOMO and to sell after the dip out of panic. This is the opposite of what I usually recommend

My style exactly. I don't want to be associated with all that daily drama of day trading.
In hindsight, I can say that holding coins and not dealing with all that minor price fluctuation is far better if you have a normal job and don't have time to react accordingly to ever-changing trading patterns.
I recommend only to sell, buy at major breaking points - ATH is a great time to sell and crashes and corrections are great entry points.

There is some sense in that, notice a positive trend and dont sell into it. I post some relevant tweets I saw today on this:

Dam it, I cant find the other source but the stats were average gains trading in market hours for S&P 500 was -5% This is average, many will profit of course. Out of hours gains, merely buying at close and holding till open was +500% I forget the time span but a very long time. Looking at chart for this stock index, we see it is generally gaining hence the hold even overnight with risk of a sell off on bad news still gains on average because the long term trend is up. Same principle as HODL. I do think keeping up with developments is important as well, not all innovation will occur directly with BTC but also some other blockchains but that question is harder

sofi@

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I think this only applies to those beginners who are afraid of taking risk and to those who haven't experience failure in trading. For a beginner who want to take trading they must read this and understand how the market goes. They will experience sudden pump or dump but they should not worry, instead take this as an opportunity for more investment as cryptos nature is very volatile and unpredictable.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: Slark on February 23, 2018, 05:21:07 PM

Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on February 20, 2018, 11:34:20 PM

As a long-term holder, I just HODL. That saves me a lot of headaches and a lot of trading commissions. You just put an example of what newbies do: to buy after the last ath out of FOMO and to sell after the dip out of panic. This is the opposite of what I usually recommend

My style exactly. I don't want to be associated with all that daily drama of day trading.
In hindsight, I can say that holding coins and not dealing with all that minor price fluctuation is far better if you have a normal job and don't have time to react accordingly to ever-changing trading patterns.
I recommend only to sell, buy at major breaking points - ATH is a great time to sell and crashes and corrections are great entry points.

It has worked for you only because the market had been rising for well over two years, starting in September, 2015. If it starts trading sideways as many established markets do most of the time in some narrow or not so narrow range, you will see that this strategy is not as good as it seems to be. Further on, you don't know in advance whether it is an ATH or price is going to rise higher. But booking profits now and then is not what HODL means. Actually, it is half-way to day trading. The same applies to buying at dips. In short, a long-lasting sideways market will kill HODL.

mia khalifa

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

most mistakes made by a trading player is that the player can not control his emotions and control his patience because his key trading is to have a very high patience if you do not have very high patience is certainly likely to get a loss.

Rahar02

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

I see it as a wrong decision, refers to the example: buy few bitcoins at the high peak in December.
Don't you think about the problem before it?
Most mistake caused by "lack of information and greedy"
Yes, people didn't do some research to identify when the price will stop climbing and start to decline.
Or else, people realize it may be the peak, but it is bitcoin, it will continue to rise, I will keep it for few years as some people predict bitcoin can reach at least $50,000. In fact, we don't know what will happen in the future whether bitcoin can reach such price or not.
Holding, it's better than "cut loss decision" though.

hurry_hore

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As I posted in other topic (link : https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/just-a-little-guide-for-new-crypto-traders-2960563) even I am new in this crypto, but trading in principal most similar for all stuff. The key is UNDERSTAND the market, how to understand can use two basic analysis. This analysis to different trading with gambling, the analysis can predict where the market will move regarding use fundamental analysis or technical analysis. Both analysis is very useful, avoid us to be gambling and still in the track of trading regardless how long you will be in the market. This time in market classify you as short trader or long trader, some term for short trader called Scalper and long trader perhaps in this case to be called investor. Investor, scalper or may be a true long trader (time in market usually in more than 1 week and less than 3 month), I say all of them are trader.

shinjunobi09

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Don't get caught if there is a flurry of price dump in the bitcoin's price that makes you lose on what your goal setting is. Instead of what is upcoming ahead, because everybody is like "Ahh there is price dump, it is the end of bitcoin". Definitely not because what is important is what you believe in trading is all about your belief on your investment not on the opinion of other people, because people's voice are supporting tools for your analysis and decision making.

btcmegastar

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Quote from: zarados on February 21, 2018, 06:48:47 PM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

Most of the active trader thought that better to cut loss before they're totally loss. The price crash and media That can trigger them to do such a thing like cut losses. let alone the current moment that has a very high fluctuation rate, the market continues to move in turns up and down. Surely no one can predict exactly how long this will continue.

In this case most of the traders will always face some loss because it will not work according to their analysis. Even though they tried but some times we have to face loss and people start recovering their investment in other sources of investment.

wildflower18

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Quote from: Sowik on February 22, 2018, 09:33:46 AM

HOLDING is something that only newbies do. I had done it as well in the past, I had bought STRATIS @ ATH of $11 and I had to hold it for a few months for it to come back to its ATH...

That's also the best solution holding your coins if you had bought it at Ath. If you cut loses you will surely losing at all. Sometimes too much panic is not good as our performance in trading. We do a lot of mistakes in trading but that mistakes gives us a lesson. So in this case, yes holding it until such time price could recovered that can give you profit.

Slark

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on February 20, 2018, 11:34:20 PM

As a long-term holder, I just HODL. That saves me a lot of headaches and a lot of trading commissions. You just put an example of what newbies do: to buy after the last ath out of FOMO and to sell after the dip out of panic. This is the opposite of what I usually recommend

My style exactly. I don't want to be associated with all that daily drama of day trading.
In hindsight, I can say that holding coins and not dealing with all that minor price fluctuation is far better if you have a normal job and don't have time to react accordingly to ever-changing trading patterns.
I recommend only to sell, buy at major breaking points - ATH is a great time to sell and crashes and corrections are great entry points.

pitiflin

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This is a common mistake and one more mistake is that traders try to sell too quickly without analyzing the market situation. The one that you mentioned is more common because there are investors who rely on investments and investments only as their income. Some even rely on this to pay their debts/ loan borrowed from bank. Most people did know that the price will go down but still they took a bad step.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: Kevin77 on February 23, 2018, 12:52:20 PM

Quote from: 1Referee on February 20, 2018, 05:29:46 AM

Important aspect for any trader is avoid trying to take advantage of each potential market movement. In case of the near peak levels of last year, it comes down to common sense, because it was pretty obvious that there was no room for any up movement left anymore. I have been a day trader as well, and the urge to constantly try to exploit the movements were what was holding me back. I turned out to make much more profit while take distance for a good moment, than being active all day in a forced manner. And yes, I do agree that if you did end up buy yourself in the market at what later turns out to be a horrible price, liquidate your positions as soon as possible. In some cases you just have to accept that the market is always one or two steps ahead of you, and that you have to take a hit. It should be considered collateral damage as long as you make more profitable than losing trades.

I love where you said it should be considered collateral damage as long as you make more profits than losses. Nevertheless, what I will point out is that we have a lot of noobs in the market and most of them trade without any strategy.

How will you expect someone who does not have any trading knowledge and is busy buying low and selling high to know where to place a stop loss or when to know when a market is going bearish ?

Any smart trader should know already that you plan an exit immediately from the point you are planning an entry and that includes stop loss. As long as you know what you are doing, even if you play with any trend in the market, you can always readjust your strategy to make some profit from it, but always know what you are doing.

Traders are not the only force which is active in the market. There are also long-term investors which are not looking for quick profits. They are more like Warren Buffett type value investors rather than speculators like George Soros. If they see a genuine potential in a coin, they would consider any dip as an excellent opportunity to buy more, at least as long as they feel confident about the coin's future. Obliviously, the idea of stop-losses simply doesn't make much sense to them. If their attitude changes for whatever reason, they will just get rid of this coin as soon as possible irrespective of its current price.

Kevin77

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Quote from: 1Referee on February 20, 2018, 05:29:46 AM

Important aspect for any trader is avoid trying to take advantage of each potential market movement. In case of the near peak levels of last year, it comes down to common sense, because it was pretty obvious that there was no room for any up movement left anymore. I have been a day trader as well, and the urge to constantly try to exploit the movements were what was holding me back. I turned out to make much more profit while take distance for a good moment, than being active all day in a forced manner. And yes, I do agree that if you did end up buy yourself in the market at what later turns out to be a horrible price, liquidate your positions as soon as possible. In some cases you just have to accept that the market is always one or two steps ahead of you, and that you have to take a hit. It should be considered collateral damage as long as you make more profitable than losing trades.

I love where you said it should be considered collateral damage as long as you make more profits than losses. Nevertheless, what I will point out is that we have a lot of noobs in the market and most of them trade without any strategy.

How will you expect someone who does not have any trading knowledge and is busy buying low and selling high to know where to place a stop loss or when to know when a market is going bearish ?

Any smart trader should know already that you plan an exit immediately from the point you are planning an entry and that includes stop loss. As long as you know what you are doing, even if you play with any trend in the market, you can always readjust your strategy to make some profit from it, but always know what you are doing.

Sowik

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HOLDING is something that only newbies do. I had done it as well in the past, I had bought STRATIS @ ATH of $11 and I had to hold it for a few months for it to come back to its ATH...

Tzupy

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Quote from: TERA2 on February 22, 2018, 01:47:13 AM

Stop losses are more of an issue with altcoins and margin trading than with regular bitcoin which is very forgiving with tons of bounces. The biggest mistake in bitcoin trading is buying at the very bottom of a huge crash and then selling for a 5 or 10% profit while forfeiting the other 150%.

Touche!

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: entrepmind23 on February 21, 2018, 09:44:08 PM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

This is why a trading plan is important before making a trade. Many people do the mistake of just buying a coin because he read and heard somewhere that it's a good buy so he bought without even bothering research about the coin and what is the position in the market. He would only notice afterwards that it's a mistake he bought that coin when it dumps and he finds out it was pre-pump. This is usually applicable in altcoins.

Panic buying and panic selling makes the market movements rapid that's why many traders have bigger losses when this happen because they don't know when to exit and if ever there is still a chance to not be in a lose, they would still hold the coin hoping that it would go up more becoming more greedy only to see the price continuously go downwards.

Having a thought-out plan and good strategy is all important. As experienced traders often say, if you don't have a plan plan to lose. But then again it is not what I'm trying to focus on here. You can't foresee everything which is possible and still less which is impossible even though it still happens. But however good and broad your trading plan can be and no matter what you do or ready yourself to, you will get caught unprepared and off guard one day. This is the part I want to address in this thread specifically, and as I come to think the common tendency among most traders just to sit passively on their hands in such situations is the root cause of most if not all their woes and sorrows.

TERA2

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Deb Rah Von Doom

Stop losses are more of an issue with altcoins and margin trading than with regular bitcoin which is very forgiving with tons of bounces. The biggest mistake in bitcoin trading is buying at the very bottom of a huge crash and then selling for a 5 or 10% profit while forfeiting the other 150%.

entrepmind23

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

This is why a trading plan is important before making a trade. Many people do the mistake of just buying a coin because he read and heard somewhere that it's a good buy so he bought without even bothering research about the coin and what is the position in the market. He would only notice afterwards that it's a mistake he bought that coin when it dumps and he finds out it was pre-pump. This is usually applicable in altcoins.

Panic buying and panic selling makes the market movements rapid that's why many traders have bigger losses when this happen because they don't know when to exit and if ever there is still a chance to not be in a lose, they would still hold the coin hoping that it would go up more becoming more greedy only to see the price continuously go downwards.

zarados

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

Most of the active trader thought that better to cut loss before they're totally loss. The price crash and media That can trigger them to do such a thing like cut losses. let alone the current moment that has a very high fluctuation rate, the market continues to move in turns up and down. Surely no one can predict exactly how long this will continue.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: vintages on February 21, 2018, 04:56:06 AM

Quote from: ktabb on February 20, 2018, 06:38:10 AM

The biggest mistake that day traders make (especially crypto day traders) is believing that they have an edge over everyone else because of the charts they look at. The biggest mistake is not believing that day trading is 100% gambling, because that is exactly what it is. The only way to consistently make money over the long term is to invest based on value and fundamentals.

Exactly, I usually consider day traders as gamblers whom have decided to take massive everyday risk. With the unstable price of bitcoin, I do wonder how they make their gain; though some traders claims it very gainful. Its takes one with huge capital and heart hardened to become a day trading. Because for me alone, bitcoin trading is a perfect risk on it own. I most times soley depend on long time investment.

You don't have to necessarily day trade with your whole capital, and if you do, then I would most certainly agree with you. On the other hand, if you set a small percentage of your deposit for day trading, you take the opportunity of both short-term volatility and long-term trends. This topic is likely worth a separate discussion of its own. For now, I can just say that it is definitely a profitable strategy if you know how to properly handle it. Besides, day trading also includes arbitrage and it can be quite profitable as well if done right. I hope you won't call arbitrage gambling.

fulmetal08larz

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Day trading is not for the meek, but do not be afraid to take risks and try. It can be profitable if you understand how the market moves and know how to anticipate. Always apply the rule: Buy Low, Sell High - which many day traders violate because of either greed or fear. In bitcoin, the recommended strategy is to do cost averaging and HODL.

gabmen

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Quote from: alyssa85 on February 21, 2018, 07:19:01 AM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It depends entirely on how much you have staked in your trade. If you have gone all-in, then yes, you need to sell and take some losses in order to re-enter a trade at a different price point.

But if you have staked just 1/10th of your stash, you can afford to wait it out. Lend out those coins on Poloniex while you wait for the price to recover, and use the rest of your stash to continue trading.

Well it's a difficult situation and its always the top option to hold. The problem is that many have invested for quick easy bucks. The mistake is to have a mindset that you'll get rich immediately. Id you have the right reason to back it up, even investing most of your stash will be worth it of you're ok with waiting out the drought

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: timerland on February 21, 2018, 01:19:58 AM

I don't really get what you're saying here. But I'm assuming that you're saying that people should ready themselves for anything and even if when SHTF they have a clear strategy of what they want to do instead of following their emotions?

If that's true, then yeah. It's definitely one of the skills you have to have trading and speculating on bitcoin.

Basically, you can't ready yourself just for anything which may potentially happen. It is simply impossible to prepare yourself for every shit that is likely going to hit the fan. But it is not required. And this is where I draw the distinction. Some people become kind of frozen when they get into an unchartered territory. Their instinctive impulse is to sit and wait till things get sorted on their own. I consider this a wrong attitude or approach. Whenever you find yourself in this type of predicament, you shouldn't wait, you should get out of it immediately until it becomes too late. Trading is just a particular activity where the devastating consequences of not making a decision at the right time are most visible and apparent.

teilwalL05

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Well everyone here has their own thing in doing their trading and I think you can certainly hodl for your dear bitcoins or other alts, and it can surely raise its value for you in the future but engaging in certain trades will sure give you decent amount of coins, I really think we need to learn from the history of movement of every coin, The recent drop was pretty obvious because of this historical pattern that bitcoin have gone through you can definitely get an idea about it, But not all of the movements from the recent pump or dump can be trace from the historical charts alone there are simply other unexplainable ones.

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It depends entirely on how much you have staked in your trade. If you have gone all-in, then yes, you need to sell and take some losses in order to re-enter a trade at a different price point.

But if you have staked just 1/10th of your stash, you can afford to wait it out. Lend out those coins on Poloniex while you wait for the price to recover, and use the rest of your stash to continue trading.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: Don Pedro Dinero on February 20, 2018, 11:34:20 PM

It is gambling even if you say that you know what you are doing. Your above example isn’t a good one for me:

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

As a long-term holder, I just HODL. That saves me a lot of headaches and a lot of trading commissions. You just put an example of what newbies do: to buy after the last ath out of FOMO and to sell after the dip out of panic. This is the opposite of what I usually recommend.

Actually, I have no problem with this approach. It is your choice and I'm okay with it. In fact, I also follow something similar with coins which I think are worth holding. But you seem to be missing the whole thing I'm trying to demonstrate here. It is not what you do specifically, selling or holding, or whatever, it is how you do it, whether you are doing it because you have no other option left and out of despair, or it was your choice planned beforehand. This is where I'm trying to draw distinction here, not between certain actions like closing or sticking to a losing position.

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Quote from: hase0278 on February 21, 2018, 05:56:53 AM

Quote from: TERA2 on February 21, 2018, 05:14:18 AM

Your comment makes no sense. An unstable price is exactly why there are daytraders. If the price was stable there would be no trades to make.

Somehow OP is right and makes sense since at some point of our trading experience, there would come a time where we bought at a high price. He didn't point out and blamed unstable price for it also. The point about what others do in order to minimize losses is also spot on but it is not the wisest move all the time. Another way others use when facing this kind of problem is by hodling. It can be beneficial and risky at the same time. Nevertheless, it is the best option to profit from the investment one had made even if it requires changing from day trading to short term or long term holding.

I'm responding to vintages, not OP.

hase0278

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Quote from: TERA2 on February 21, 2018, 05:14:18 AM

Your comment makes no sense. An unstable price is exactly why there are daytraders. If the price was stable there would be no trades to make.

Somehow OP is right and makes sense since at some point of our trading experience, there would come a time where we bought at a high price. He didn't point out and blamed unstable price for it also. The point about what others do in order to minimize losses is also spot on but it is not the wisest move all the time. Another way others use when facing this kind of problem is by hodling. It can be beneficial and risky at the same time. Nevertheless, it is the best option to profit from the investment one had made even if it requires changing from day trading to short term or long term holding.

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Quote from: magneto on February 20, 2018, 05:23:28 PM

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

The most common mistake would be panic selling and weak hands, honestly.

If you invest in bitcoin then you are probably going to have to prepare for the long term. Trading bitcoin short term will mess up your entire trading psychology because you'll keep on trying to go for just that little more profits.

If you are trading bitcoin short term, make sure that you have a stop loss level in mind, and a target where you sell your coins. Otherwise, you'll always fall into the hole of selling low and buying high.

You make a fair point. Positions are there to be liquidated, you don't always have to close a position with a profit. You win some, you lose some. But you need to be mentally prepared for anything before you invest.

It may of course be the most common mistake but I'm trying to trace this and other mistakes to their root cause in this topic. I'm not defending short-term trading vs long-term holding because these approaches to trading (investing) have their cons and pros. And frankly, I don't feel like my trading psychology is messed up or even fucked up. As per OP, it is not so much about closing a losing position, it is more about your whole mental outlook you have in trading as well as in other activities. For example, you buy at the top but you expect the price to plunge and decide beforehand that you won't get out even if Bitcoin goes down to zero. Then you won't be liquidating and that's okay because you know what you are doing.

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Your comment makes no sense. An unstable price is exactly why there are daytraders. If the price was stable there would be no trades to make.

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Quote from: ktabb on February 20, 2018, 06:38:10 AM

The biggest mistake that day traders make (especially crypto day traders) is believing that they have an edge over everyone else because of the charts they look at. The biggest mistake is not believing that day trading is 100% gambling, because that is exactly what it is. The only way to consistently make money over the long term is to invest based on value and fundamentals.

Exactly, I usually consider day traders as gamblers whom have decided to take massive everyday risk. With the unstable price of bitcoin, I do wonder how they make their gain; though some traders claims it very gainful. Its takes one with huge capital and heart hardened to become a day trading. Because for me alone, bitcoin trading is a perfect risk on it own. I most times soley depend on long time investment.

TERA2

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When that loss looks so steep and too big to take but suddenly the chart scales down and you're at a 10 times bigger loss.

timerland

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

I don't really get what you're saying here. But I'm assuming that you're saying that people should ready themselves for anything and even if when SHTF they have a clear strategy of what they want to do instead of following their emotions?

If that's true, then yeah. It's definitely one of the skills you have to have trading and speculating on bitcoin.

It's all psychology. If you bought in december and sold in January, then you would have made out a 70% loss. It's tempting to sell when markets are tanking like that for sure. Either have a stop-loss, or just hold it through, and unless you really need the cash or in some extreme circumstances, don't liquidate your position. That's my strategy at least, dunno about you.

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one of the biggest mistakes that "bitcoin" traders make is usually being late!
they buy late and sell late. it is actually partly the follow up of what OP said, meaning not backing out of a trade when something goes wrong. they wait and wait and when it was too late they start doing something, they sell at the very bottom and then buy back too late when it is already on top. rinse and repeat!

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A great mistake of every trader is focusing on their possible profit without setting out the possible loss you may incur, meaning setting up your target and cut loss price can help you secure the money. Day trading is really risky and if you are just depending on any luck I'm sure you'll be stuck forever on that.

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Quote from: ktabb on February 20, 2018, 06:38:10 AM

The biggest mistake that day traders make (especially crypto day traders) is believing that they have an edge over everyone else because of the charts they look at. The biggest mistake is not believing that day trading is 100% gambling, because that is exactly what it is. The only way to consistently make money over the long term is to invest based on value and fundamentals.

I totally agree with that

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 06:48:59 AM

I don't know why you think that day traders believe that they have an edge over the rest of the pack. I for one don't feel like that. I'm a day trader in some assets and a long-term holder in other assets. Though I agree that short-term trading is mostly gambling unless you know what you are doing. But this is the whole point of this thread.

It is gambling even if you say that you know what you are doing. Your above example isn’t a good one for me:

Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

As a long-term holder, I just HODL. That saves me a lot of headaches and a lot of trading commissions. You just put an example of what newbies do: to buy after the last ath out of FOMO and to sell after the dip out of panic. This is the opposite of what I usually recommend

Indrawan77

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Yes I ever in that situation a lot of times, in trading there should be an exit strategy to prevent deeper lost, but it all will depend on the traders, sometimes the drop down still got chances to go up again, I think the decision to put stop lost limit is depend on the experience and the market situation, most of the traders not get enough information so they make the wrong choice

magneto

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

The most common mistake would be panic selling and weak hands, honestly.

If you invest in bitcoin then you are probably going to have to prepare for the long term. Trading bitcoin short term will mess up your entire trading psychology because you'll keep on trying to go for just that little more profits.

If you are trading bitcoin short term, make sure that you have a stop loss level in mind, and a target where you sell your coins. Otherwise, you'll always fall into the hole of selling low and buying high.

You make a fair point. Positions are there to be liquidated, you don't always have to close a position with a profit. You win some, you lose some. But you need to be mentally prepared for anything before you invest.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: slaman29 on February 20, 2018, 05:45:40 AM

I'm not sure what you mean by dumb stop-loss orders. Stop losses should be set together with entrance, prior to making any trade. If the trader just makes a random decision on where stop loss is then okay, that is dumb, but basic trading means you make clear headed decisions as to where you want to enter and where you want to exit (not so much when). However, if those exits never arrive, which is unlikely if you are a medium and long term trader, then yes, of course you make decisions to rethink.

Okay, I will try to explain. For example, some novice trader reads it in a book on trading that he should always place stop-losses, so he blindly does exactly that but still ends up always losing. The market knows everything about your stop-losses obviously, and it may go specifically after them. This is what flash crashes basically are all about, to trigger a lot of stop-loss orders. On the other hand, an experienced trader takes into account these tricks and cannot be fooled by such attempts because he follows some other metric in his trading decisions. It doesn't mean that he will never close a losing position. It means that he is well prepared for this hunt for triggering stop-losses.

Quote from: ktabb on February 20, 2018, 06:38:10 AM

The biggest mistake that day traders make (especially crypto day traders) is believing that they have an edge over everyone else because of the charts they look at. The biggest mistake is not believing that day trading is 100% gambling, because that is exactly what it is. The only way to consistently make money over the long term is to invest based on value and fundamentals.

I don't know why you think that day traders believe that they have an edge over the rest of the pack. I for one don't feel like that. I'm a day trader in some assets and a long-term holder in other assets. Though I agree that short-term trading is mostly gambling unless you know what you are doing. But this is the whole point of this thread.

MartynasB

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In my opinion, big mistake that a lot of new traders chase coins that price is growing fast like it was with Iota, Tron ant etc. They buy coins at all time high and think that it will grow much more

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The biggest mistake that day traders make (especially crypto day traders) is believing that they have an edge over everyone else because of the charts they look at. The biggest mistake is not believing that day trading is 100% gambling, because that is exactly what it is. The only way to consistently make money over the long term is to invest based on value and fundamentals.

Canis Majoris

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Quote from: 1Referee on February 20, 2018, 05:29:46 AM

Important aspect for any trader is avoid trying to take advantage of each potential market movement. In case of the near peak levels of last year, it comes down to common sense, because it was pretty obvious that there was no room for any up movement left anymore. I have been a day trader as well, and the urge to constantly try to exploit the movements were what was holding me back. I turned out to make much more profit while take distance for a good moment, than being active all day in a forced manner. And yes, I do agree that if you did end up buy yourself in the market at what later turns out to be a horrible price, liquidate your positions as soon as possible. In some cases you just have to accept that the market is always one or two steps ahead of you, and that you have to take a hit. It should be considered collateral damage as long as you make more profitable than losing trades.

I don't particularly disagree with your approach. To tell the truth, I stick to it myself with fiat currencies where I'm definitely a long-term holder based on fundamentals. Also, I am a strong believer in Litecoin, and thus I do keep some coins there long term too. But that's not quite my point. What I'm trying to convey here is more about your overall attitude toward what you are doing, in trading or elsewhere. It is not about particular trading techniques or anything, it is more about being completely intolerant to situations in which you get caught unprepared, those which you don't consider, take into account, or allow for in advance. Indeed, you can't plan for all possible outcomes, but it is not about that either. It is about how you deal with the unexpected and unforeseen when it actually happens, when the shit hits the fan.

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Quote from: Canis Majoris on February 20, 2018, 04:50:28 AM

An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit when the entrance is and do that fast.

I'm not sure what you mean by dumb stop-loss orders. Stop losses should be set together with entrance, prior to making any trade. If the trader just makes a random decision on where stop loss is then okay, that is dumb, but basic trading means you make clear headed decisions as to where you want to enter and where you want to exit (not so much when). However, if those exits never arrive, which is unlikely if you are a medium and long term trader, then yes, of course you make decisions to rethink.

1Referee

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Important aspect for any trader is avoid trying to take advantage of each potential market movement. In case of the near peak levels of last year, it comes down to common sense, because it was pretty obvious that there was no room for any up movement left anymore. I have been a day trader as well, and the urge to constantly try to exploit the movements were what was holding me back. I turned out to make much more profit while take distance for a good moment, than being active all day in a forced manner. And yes, I do agree that if you did end up buy yourself in the market at what later turns out to be a horrible price, liquidate your positions as soon as possible. In some cases you just have to accept that the market is always one or two steps ahead of you, and that you have to take a hit. It should be considered collateral damage as long as you make more profitable than losing trades.

Canis Majoris

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An active day trader myself (sort of), I often think about common mistakes people make in trading. And it seems that I have traced back most if not all such mistakes to their root cause. In a nutshell, it all comes down to being unable to back out if something goes wrong. For example, you buy a few bitcoins at a December high and expect the price to continue rising, which is kind of obvious. Instead, the price starts crashing down and you find yourself in a situation that you didn't envisage or consider beforehand. So your best option would be to bring things back where they were as fast as possible even if it means some loss.

It is not so much about placing dumb stop-loss orders or other trading techniques aimed at minimizing losses as about your mental disposition or general attitude to immediately get out of what can be loosely called a decision limbo when you basically don't know what to do. In other words, search for the exit where the entrance is and do that fast.

Topic: Major mistake all traders make (Read 1104 times)