Topic: Major western Bitcoin exchanges about to be investigated and probably SHUTDOWN (Read 4637 times)

The self detonating client comment was awesome. A true LOL moment, so thanks.

Not sure what to think of the Fonz here but his posts have always been most entertaining, troll or not...

The ones abusing the system will be weeded out but instead of assuming the government is a giant singular all powerful beast who can control the world (it sooo cannot), as long as people step back, act rationally, and let them handle legitimate investigations then nobody needs to worry about shut downs. There is a difference between the ones running Gox and the ones running Bitstamp and the others.

Again, though, if you don't trust the exchanges then don't do business with them. If they get shut down, it's not because a government agency with the power to do so just acted like an asshole to flex...there are still rights and laws that if they break can bite them in the ass in appeals and loss and backlash where all they did amounted to just stirring up shit awhile and then the system resets itself and makes it even harder for government intrusion.

If you understand the "disruption" part of the bitcoin principle then you shouldn't worry much about what governments can and cannot do because the fact it's already becoming globally accepted means the old school ways of government doing things are coming to an end. There is no other outcome. They're not going down without a fight but they are, inevitably, going down at the final bell.

Here's the best strategy...give them room to do what they do, let them feel good about their power fantasy, and don't cave to the flexing. They'll feel all smug like they really do call the shots and before they know it, the mainstream public will be buying and investing in bitcoin as the alternative...and when that time comes, it's all over but the squawking for governments and bankers thinking they control anything...if they flex then, they lose because in a flash instant people would shift from local/national currency to bitcoin causing theirs to lose value...which would bankrupt the whole lot of them.

We just need to let things alone and cooperate long enough to get to mass adoption...or even half adoption...the other half will jump in or go down with the ship.

But weeding out the system abusers is good for everyone - bitcoin and governments and society alike.

Where is the option for the price to go up? If an exchange is shut down for scamming that is a good thing for the economy.

you mean 'hack' of course

Even Mt Gox never got shut down. More likely situation imo - major exchange like BFX or Stamp pulls a Gox and loses massive amounts of user BTC in a hack....

Thank goodness for the secretive BTC-e! If some of these exchanges do get shuttered, BTC-e, localbitcoins and other alternatives will spring up. Just like when a torrent site gets taken down 

What's that fonzie? *munches pizza* sorry, I'm easily distracted by using my bitcoin to buy stuff from all these places that are starting to accept it. Im sure whatever it is sounds terrible. You should definitely give up on BTC now and never post here again. *burp*

One day I'll probably look back and chuckle at just how much this 0.068BTC pizza cost me. I doubt it will ever be ~$5m that the original BTC pizzas cost. Funny thing is, if it did, I'm sure you would still be here posting about how your pet goldfish was outlawing the use of BTC in the confines of its tank, and how this could cause it to go to zero.

Yeah but thats kinda how it goes when dealing with governments and especially USG. They put the burden on people and companies to prove innocence and disassociate themselves from criminals, rather than proving criminal wrongdoing themselves.

Doesn’t it stand to reason that the federal government should also be under investigation since some criminal enterprises use the money they create exclusively? The bitcoin currency isn’t doing anything wrong on its own, if shady people do shady things with it, how is that the exchanges’ fault? This is guilt by involuntary association.

He's visiting FUD jail

Fonzie is desperate for some cock up his arse.

Sorry, gotta look for that in the FUD jail.

Goodluck with your amazing cuntilicious delicious FUD spreading while we are in a Bull Market right now.

Cheers.

I like Fonzie's old style of FUD, but posting this in a bull market feels desperate. I think he's jumped the shark on this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-P2aBoOuRY

Well they did.



Also quick question while I can get this post through, I keep getting a message that my IP had posted a message less than 360 seconds ago so try again later, even though I only made 1 post yesterday and this is my second today.  Even when I tried posting the first one yesterday it said this and I had to keep trying until it got through about 10 minutes later.

Sorry Fonzie. Your trolling is getting old fast.

There's always the possibility that a bank account can be frozen at any time for spurious reasons. That's the exact reason why people should get into Bitcoin.

Some Points:
Over 1600 views and only 35 people took part in the poll.
The Poll conveniently lists the highest price at a Fonzie generated $250. Not really a poll eh?
Fonzie has a history of Fear mongering.
Investigations would be apparent in a few ways and at that point people would buy btc as it is easy to move btc than USD.

There is some very large money getting involved in Bitcoin, so if the powers that don't be want to take it down, they should do it yesterday.

Recent news in favor of Bitcoin:
The FED is now involved in Money Laundering through EU countries to quell the bond bleeding.  http://www.paulcraigroberts.org/2014/05/12/fed-great-deceiver-paul-craig-roberts/
Silver Fixing to end this August: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/international-business/european-business/historic-silver-fix-bites-the-dust-as-banks-pull-out/article18655682/
Russia and China to do oil trading in Non USD's, 100's of Billions http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-05-20/china-signs-non-dollar-settlement-deal-russias-largest-bank
Deutsche Bank trying to raise 8 billion. Hey, we already no they are illiquid http://uk.reuters.com/article/2014/05/18/us-deutsche-bank-newissue-idUKKBN0DY0IM20140518

So, regarding this thread:



But always good to stay on your toes.
Its about sharing

Would explain why Stamp have got so aggressive on questioning where coins and fiat come from originally.
And a person long cash giving up on getting fiat out of stamp and not wanting to answer these questions might be tempted to buy coins , transfer them out to another exchange that either isn't being investigated or doesn't give a monkeys (say in China, or Russia ) and sell them, then post on the news in order to drive the price down again

All this means is the US gov wants info on transactions, to match with SR people. The exchanges will happily divulge this info, and life will go on.

The only people negatively affected will be those who were using SR and these exchanges without taking proper anonymity provisions.

stop with the FUD pleeease 

1- people sell, and price rise. Makes sense
2 - BITSTAMP is europe based, so a bit outside FBI jurisdiction(next time say INTERPOL, ONU, or something impressive and international)
3 - $20 gap between btc-e and bitstamp are normal before the chinese baning drama, nothing different. When they are equal or btc-e bigger, something is happening

The whole thread is retarded mentally handicapped.

First of all, we will know well in advance if Bitstamp or Bitfinex were under investigation. There are so many reasons why, I'm not going to waste my time typing about it.

Second, the FBI doesn't have the influence to get international banks to do anything. The US Gov. does, but that's not who is investigating Silk Road. The US Gov. is only concerned with money laundering and compliance, which both of these exchanges have.

Fonzie needs to go get high and leave the rest of us alone.

But won't the price only rally like mad on (for ex) the one exchange that is being investigated/found to have a connection? And only if it happens before it gets shut down? Like Gox!!

If any exchanges are found to have connection the price will rally like mad because bitcoin withdrawals are the fastest means of getting out of the exchange.

To give a real answer... why wouldn't it? This is what is downloading the blockchain and acting as a node. I can't fathom anything that would make this stop, as every other service relies on it as well (as far as I know?). I do know there are custom implementations, but the principal remains that this shouldn't magically die off. And if it did, your wallet would be worthless.

Lolz.

First, fonzie and now good ole walsoraj! This thread is getting better and better!

So funny, noobs are eating this up like there's no tomorrow.

I vote fonzie for the Funniest Poster of The Year Award!

No. The qt client includes self-detonation code that will activate at or near the year 2140.

So bitcoin-qt will work forever?

You can import that wallet file at blockchain.info for one, or you can simply re-download Bitcoin-QT.

What would happen with my bitcoins if I have them on a wallet.dat file from bitcoin-qt and bitcoin-qt stops operating?

Can I still get them in some other way?

$60 to go.

Severing coinbase from stamp effectively kills stamp.

Coinbase is not really an exchange, no. They more so act in the capacity of a broker. (And I suspect they front run their customers as well)

Is coinbase not an exchange?

Correct.

But if it's an FBI operation it stops at the border. If it's international then some other agency could be involved. That's the point I was making. It doesn't need to go off the deep end here. That's why the FBI can't arrest anyone in other countries.

Why is it that everyone only classifies Coinbase as a US exchange? Cryptsy is based in the US as well and is starting to take fiat conversions.

Without speaking to anything else, I'd say the list of countries who wouldn't be pressured into complying is very short. And from there, the list of countries where investors would want to set up shop is even shorter.

Only for the ones who'd have them frozen...but other countries aren't at the mercy of the us, we don't run the world. US has lost credibility world wide and people are jumping ship. Whether other countries would comply who knows but the entire exchange here was to the statement that the FBI has jurisdiction to freeze assets or do anything whatsoever anywhere but this country and they do not. It was pointing out that FBI isn't global. Not that US can't or doesn't work with other nations but only then are they with agencies OTHER THAN THE FBI. That was so the ones freaking out could settle down...there were other stories this week about Japan doing all sorts of crackdowns on Japan based exchanges, their own silk road raids and it didn't do shit to the market one way or another.

But this whole topic isn't about the government trying to attack the exchanges...they're looking at specified criminal activities vis silk road that may be linked to any other exchanges, and then the only ones they can mess with legally is any exchange in THIS country.  So for the inth time, are there more than just coinbase in the us?

If coinbase is the only one, I doubt seriously it'll be adversely affected because they're far too much in the white zone and unconnected with "dark net" activities. At absolute most if coinbase turns over information, they probably won't do shit until they secure legal protection (if they're smart) to make sure the subpoena specifies what or who they're after and it's not just a catchall of names - which is ILLEGAL in this country.

Yes, so in practice, what is your point? US government handle it extra-judicially by pressuring businesses to comply. Otherwise they pressure the resident government. Either way, you'd be fooling yourself to believe the exchanges are out of reach for them. Start freezing assets and it's game over.

SO does anyone who actually knows what they're talking about have the list of US based exchanges?


Then the US didn't shut them down, the country they were based in did. No matter how spooky you seem to think the USG is, they have limits on what they can and cannot do and if this is the FBI investigating LOCAL crimes they can't operate legally outside this country. If the gambling operation had a bank in the us, then their assets could be frozen. But if they did not, then the US did not freeze a damn thing.

If the WEBSITE ISP HOST was based in the US then the US would have jurisdiction over the isp or hosting company...not the company running the gambling site. At absolute most they could just force the site down, and the company who owns the site moves to other servers in other locations and back up and running. The business didn't get shut down. Because the US has no authority to do that anywhere but the US (FBI, which is interstate, not a global enforcer).

Everyone is free to decide for themself. It´s just an official big warning sign. How many Goxcoins have you bought on bitcoinbuilder btw?
You posted about it during that time

So you can guarantee that they are not, and that no one should trade there anymore?

The US shut down the 3 big poker sites and froze all of their assets.  All of them were based out of countries other than the US.

Again, who did they send them to? They can send all the subpoenas they want outside American borders and the recipient can piss on them and toss them in the trash, they're meaningless. FBI can't do shit outside this country. Anything they attempted would be tossed out on its ass in any court.

How much would you worry about a court order from China?

If they sent them to exchanges here, then it would be coinbase. I asked what other ones are there besides coinbase? If that's the only one operating on US soil, then that's just one.

Cryptsy is a pretty big exchange that operates in the US. They are also registered with FINCEN (like Coinbase).

Why did they sent subpoenas? Just for fun? To create FUD

International borders are not what they used to be. The USA drops bombs on people in Yemen and Pakistan, don't think freezing a UK registered company is beyond them.

They did accept funds from US customers and aren´t registered @ Fincen, that would be enough to justify an investigation.

What exchanges other than coinbase are physically operating in the US?

The FBI doesn't have a shred of jurisdiction outside this country...

lol this guy is so obvious.


trolls should have plays that aren't so transparent

Bitstamp is not operating from USA, so it needs to be Slovenia investigations (I guess Bitstamp is located there)

Fixed. Sorry, sometimes i´m unrealistic and blinded by my bullishness.

So are yall going to protest about shutting down banks due to all the fraud and theft and assorted criminal activity being funded with USD? If they push the issue, this should be part of the backlash pointing to the elephant on the table and make sure they hear nobody's buying it.

The exchanges aren't going to be shut down just to shut them down. If any of them are operating badly they will get weeded out like Gox did. You either trust the exchanges you send money to or you don't. If you don't, pull your money out and move it somewhere else. If the exchange survives and withstands that, it's probably not going anywhere. If you trust them, then don't sweat it.

Government flexes and then the people respond. If there's enough backlash about it they'll back down. They're not going to come out with some draconian ban because they'll never be able to enforce it anyway...no matter what "rules for bitcoin" and "guidelines" and "policy" they dig out of their asses. I'm in the US and even I know that the US isn't the center of the universe no matter what our government likes to think. They're all delusional anyway.

Of course Bitstamp and other exchanges are not safe. Is that a joke?

Don't keep all your eggs in one basket. I would be very, very surprised if a major exchange were not shut down / bankrupt in the next year.

Update the poll Fonz, I want to vote <$1. This is the worst thing to ever happen to bitcoin.

Nobody can guarantee anything. Anything can happen at any time. The US government could flip-flop tomorrow and declare Bitcoin as 100% illegal. All anyone can do is guess.

Im posting because Fonz is epic and I want to be in his archived threads. The topic itself is lolz.

So you can guarantee that Bitstamp and friends are safe, and there won´t ever be problems withdrawing funds(USD/BTC) due to US(FBI) investigations?

lmao

just fools gambling money away

Well, right now it is said that the US are investigating Bitcoin exchanges, it was even in Wall Street Journal

Anybody? Well, perhaps you missed all the people falling over themselves to wire money to Gox / send coins to BitcoinBuilder directly before they shut down.

Made me lol

dude anybody here knew about the gox problems with withdrawals, it was obvious that you shouldn't have kept money there...
Hell even on Twitter it was full of folks screaming "take your money out of gox!!" before the catastrophe.

I guess you bought Goxcoin on Bitcoinbuilder, because everything said about GOX all the time was plain FUD.

The collapse will begin if Bitstamp(or others) should really shutdown due to investigations by the US government.  BTC-E has been 15-20$ below Bitstamp for a few days, this could be a reason why they are so much behind Stamp.

Fake ID´s (to create bank accounts) Cashing out through 3rd persons. There are multiple ways to cash out and even launder your money through mayor exchanges. I haven´t checked for a few months, but you could even buy these services on Silkroad.

I was under the impression that Coinbase was already running completely by the law (especially with their massive investments)?

If that was happening than the price on btc-e would crash, also if they anticipate a collapse like you think they would not move their BTC to a cold wallet.

If you want to spread FUD than at least come up with something that's not completely retarded

I would have thought most dark web users are not using exchanges, unless simply speculating on the side. You can't get fiat from any exchange without ID. Maybe I am misgauging how large some of these players are.

Criminals with funds on Bitstamp buy Bitcoins to transfer their funds out quickly(to BTC-E or even cold wallet). It´s magic.
It´s way riskier for them to use bank withdrawl.

people cashing out drives the price up  



either way, IF they shut down exchanges (which is a big IF), I'm pretty sure many people will protest against it and find a workaround.

The price would crash for a while but after a work-around (for example europe-based exchanges or undercover trade or a P2P exchange or otherwise) has been found it will rise 10 times higher within no-time.

A shutdown of exchanges is a direct attack on bitcoin and financial freedom and the only reason the USA would do this is if they are afraid of bitcoin.

Why is this kind of FUD thread and specially the title considered appropriate?

As a longterm community member of SR for more than 2 years i can say that at least 90% of their business is done by Americans or Europeans.
I guess most of them won´t cash out in China.

LOL!

He will leave bitcointalk forever if the price goes over 550, IIRC.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y9KyBdPeKHg&t=0m24s

Fonzie must be back on the PBOC payroll

Fonzie is back hahaha

Cheers for the heads-up, sounds bad if true.

Articles provided don't mention anything on western exchanges being contacted.

Any concrete links?

Do dark web drug dealers use bitfinex? Or does the wall street-like appearance of the platform not appeal to them.

I bet most of them are on BTC-e.

It´s lookin really bad for Bitcoin, once again. After MtGox went down this year with all their customers money there is the next bad event about to happen to other exchanges. According to Wall Street Journal, a lot of other exchanges have already received subpoenas and will most likely get frozen for the time of the investigations by the USA. I assume it will Bitstamp/Coinbase/Localbitcoins.... and others
This has probably been the reason for todays price increase, as criminals wan´t to get their money out of Bitstamp, which for the first time since ages, led this small rallye. I assume that those criminals try to cash out on BTC-E, which so far seems to be anonymous and can handle the volume. This is most likely the reason why they lag almost 20$ behind Bitstamp.
If Bitstamp should shutdown for the time of the investigation, to which level do you think will the price drop?
Where will you sell, if most of them are no longer available (for most likely months or years)?

http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014/05/20/more-bad-news-for-bitcoin/
http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424127887324705104578147333270637790?mod=WSJ_article_SubOnlyEdPicks

U.S. authorities have opened a new front in their investigation into bitcoin exchanges and other businesses that deal in the online currency, examining possible ties between the firms and the online drug bazaar Silk Road, according to people familiar with the matter.

The new focus of the investigation is the latest indication of how the shuttered online drug market has become linked to bitcoin, tainting the currency with associations of shady activity as its advocates stress to regulators its legitimacy. It comes after prosecutors in January criminally charged the owner of one bitcoin exchange over alleged ties to Silk Road.

One of the people familiar with the matter said the investigation was at an early stage, and conclusions hadn't been reached as to whether the exchanges were connected with Silk Road.

Several bitcoin exchanges received subpoenas from Manhattan federal prosecutors this winter, including Tokyo-based Mt. Gox, once the world's most popular bitcoin exchange, according to people familiar with the matter. It wasn't clear which other bitcoin businesses have received subpoenas.

The subpoenas to Mt. Gox demanded customer-transaction logs and materials related to solicitation of investors. But prosecutors and Federal Bureau of Investigation agents also are examining whether the exchange and others like it may have processed transactions connected to Silk Road, the people said. Attorneys for Mt. Gox didn't respond to requests for comment.

Timeline: Bitcoin's Evolution
View Graphics
 
REUTERS
Mt. Gox suspended trading on Feb. 25 and announced the disappearance of 850,000 bitcoins—about 7% of the world's total—worth more than $470 million at the time. The exchange filed for Chapter 15 bankruptcy protection in Texas in March in a bid to stop customers from targeting the cash it holds in U.S. bank accounts.

Mt. Gox's demise amplified authorities' concerns about the stability of bitcoin, which isn't backed by any central bank.

The shadow of Silk Road, where users could anonymously purchase everything from narcotics to forged passports, long has hung over bitcoin, the only form of currency Silk Road accepted.

Exchanging other currencies into bitcoin with the knowledge that the funds would be used for illegal transactions could violate money-laundering laws. Even without such direct knowledge, financial institutions are required under U.S. bank regulations to maintain robust internal controls to prevent money laundering by customers.

Prosecutors shut down Silk Road last year and charged its alleged founder, Ross Ulbricht, with several counts of conspiracy and other charges. He has pleaded not guilty and denied being Silk Road's founder. A trial is scheduled for November in federal court in Manhattan. A lawyer for Mr. Ulbricht declined this week to comment.

Charles Shrem, a bitcoin evangelist and businessman, was criminally charged in January with money laundering at his company, BitInstant, which like Mt. Gox swapped dollars for bitcoin and collected a fee on the transactions.

Prosecutors alleged he conspired to help customers of Silk Road convert dollars into bitcoin to use on the market.

Emails Mr. Shrem sent furthered suspicions about connections his company may have had with Silk Road, a person briefed on the investigation said.

In an email to an unnamed person in April 2012, cited in court documents filed by prosecutors, Mr. Shrem said that "[Silk Road] funds a decent percentage of the overall Bitcoin economy."

In a February 2012 email cited by prosecutors, Mr. Shrem wrote "wow, Silk Road actually works," explaining he had just received a shipment of marijuana brownies.

Mr. Shrem and his alleged accomplice pleaded not guilty last month in federal court in Manhattan. A trial is scheduled for September.

"He's cooperated with law-enforcement agencies in the past, and he looks forward to getting this case behind him," said Marc Agnifilo, a lawyer for Mr. Shrem.