@SFR10 - thanks for digging up regarding the statute of limitations between the two nations, so it's different, but if they are going to be tried in the US then their law supersede that of the UK. But still this needs to be define from the very start.
@Kong Hey Pakboy - better check who the mods of this board (not sure who he is, or if we have mods here) as to why your post is deleted.
Topic: Man Robbed of 16 Bitcoin Sues Young Thieves’ Parents (Read 197 times)
I don't know what the fuck happened but my post here got reported even though I was right, it's in the email that was sent that the kid was the one that gets sued and tried as an adult and in no way the parents are getting sued there. I don't know how the fuck that post was off topic? Can someone explain that to me pretty please.
I'm not too sure how legal this letter even is?
Unfortunately chances are that he won't ever see his coins again.
1) Where is the family going to get 16 BTCs to pay him in the first place? It was less $200k at the time of incident but now a cool million dollars or so.
2) What evidence is there other than IP addresses?
Unfortunately chances are that he won't ever see his coins again.
1) Where is the family going to get 16 BTCs to pay him in the first place? It was less $200k at the time of incident but now a cool million dollars or so.
2) What evidence is there other than IP addresses?
Depends on which country he files the lawsuit in really. If in the UK, obviously UK law will apply, and it makes more sense because the family is there too.
He filed the lawsuit in the US [Colorado] and based on one of the comments [not sure how reliable it is], it appears that the US law should apply instead:- If the other interpretation is just the one from the parents, then it's probably not going to be valid in a legal sense.From what I've understood, that's exactly the case here, and looks like there's a big difference between their laws:
- but they have been doing other crimes like sim swapping and stealing millions in cryptocurrency.Rasch [the attorney in question] was referring to "young men" that are involved in such crimes, as opposed to the other two.It is obvious that the victim tried to avoid court proceedings,Then why just a civil case? He could've achieved those results a lot faster [most likely] if this was a criminal case!
~Snipped~
I don't think the victim is hiding anything, otherwise we wouldn't be reading about it now
- From what I'm seeing, he needed to have some sort of control over the person that investigated it, hence why he went with a PI.The way I read it, sulaiman.h500 is a user from CryptoCompare.com.And this is his profile page: sulaiman.h500 [already banned]
It is really ironic that someone who have tons of bitcoin are not storing it in a safe and secure way.
16 BTC may seem like a big fortune today, but if we know that the hack happened during 2018, and if we assume that the victim did not invest it at the end of 2017 (ATH time), we may be talking about an investment of $1600 or $7000 if it happened during 2016 or earlier. Such people have a problem that they often think only about how much money they have invested, not how much it is worth at some point. He could even keep it in the hardware wallet, nothing would have helped if he hadn't checked the address before clicking the send button.
It just shows that crypto is not for everyone, at least you need some basic understanding of the security involved before getting yourself to fill your bags.
You are absolutely right, for the vast majority investing in cryptocurrencies is much more than the risk of volatility, because this is not an isolated case - but it is one of the few in which the victim was extremely persistent and succeeded in what 99% of such victims consider mission impossible.
However, I always remember that there are those who lost a lot more, and I remember one such case right here from the forum - at the end of 2018, the value of hacked coins was about $1 million.
I GOT HACKED AND LOST 1 MILLION
btw please try using your magical archiving powers and try finding other bitcointalk member mentioned in that article
The way I read it, sulaiman.h500 is a user from CryptoCompare.com.Interesting to note that the he reach out to the parents, but the parents did nothing, maybe just a slap on the wrist and their kids are free again.
The kid came home with a small fortune one day, maybe they were in on it from the start. I'm more curious if he cashed it out, and if so, why didn't it get flagged by his bank?
It is really ironic that someone who have tons of bitcoin are not storing it in a safe and secure way. It just shows that crypto is not for everyone, at least you need some basic understanding of the security involved before getting yourself to fill your bags. Maybe hew as an early bag holder that's why he was able to accumulate this huge amount, hence, still a newbie. 
.
I believe early investors are not really into security, they just buy and hide it on online wallet, worst on some exchanges.
.I believe early investors are not really into security, they just buy and hide it on online wallet, worst on some exchanges.
If he had all the evidence 3 years ago, why did he wait 3 years?
You know that most of the people in crypto are doing exactly the same things, holding coins in hot wallets or exchanges, and they claim all forked shitcoins.I am not sure he waited for years, that letter was sent in 2018 and it needs time for private investigators and lawyers to start the process.
Last time I checked doxing a thief and a scammer was not a crime
He may believe in Bitcoin, but clearly he has no idea how to handle it. "Be your own bank" means it's your own responsibility to keep your money safe.
I think he learned his lesson the hard way :/btw please try using your magical archiving powers and try finding other bitcointalk member mentioned in that article and letter he sent to parents of this scammer.
I located one but still no luck with his second account, and I tried every possible combination, with or without dots and with other numbers, and I even looked for all members that have similar usernames:
https://bpip.org/search.aspx?q=sulaiman
Banned, nuked or mistake?
So, someone who uses an Operating System known for malware keeps 16 Bitcoin in a hot wallet or exchange, then installs malware on the same online system because he wants to claim a few cents from Forkcoins, ignores all basic security, doesn't verify the address he deposits to, and finally publicly doxes a kid in an other country? He had so many chances to prevent all of this from happening!
If he had all the evidence 3 years ago, why did he wait 3 years?
I'm very curious what the court will decide
If he had all the evidence 3 years ago, why did he wait 3 years?
The law in this case is more than absurd, because if you steal something and stay under the radar for 3+ years, no one can take legal action against you.
Three years is just weird. Here the thief becomes owner after 20 years, but the victim can still demand compensation (link in Dutch) from the thief.Spending $10K to hire private investigators is nothing if you believe in Bitcoin and if you know that it's value will grow exponentially in future.
He may believe in Bitcoin, but clearly he has no idea how to handle it. "Be your own bank" means it's your own responsibility to keep your money safe.I'm very curious what the court will decide
It's one of those cases that could go either way! Both of the defendant's families are nothing but a bunch of low-life scammers [I'm referring to the part @Lucius quoted]. Having said those, I wonder why the victim in question, opted for a PI, as opposed to contacting the law enforcement agencies [perhaps he's hiding something].
It is obvious that the victim tried to avoid court proceedings, and that he calculated that the parents would influence their children to return what they stole - but here the saying "the apple does not fall far from the tree" was confirmed. I don't think the victim is hiding anything, otherwise we wouldn't be reading about it now - but he's certainly made another big mistake after infecting his computer with clipboard malware, which is that he lost precious time (now it turns out to be crucial) and that he is in a situation where even UK law is against him.
Does it mean that each one of them has a slightly different interpretation for the "discovery rule"?
Of course, the laws of the two countries clash here - but nonetheless, the perpetrators should not be allowed to get away with it. I'm just wondering what will happen if UK law doesn't really prosecute them - can the US still insist on bringing them to justice by putting them on international arrest warrants in case they ever leave the UK?
I'm not sure how effective it might be.
Despite the evidence that he has, circumstantial evidence simply won't hold up in a court of law, so it really depends whether his case is strong enough.
Despite the evidence that he has, circumstantial evidence simply won't hold up in a court of law, so it really depends whether his case is strong enough.
I think he has enough evidence to really pin the kids or their parents in this case. But the problem is the statue of limitations, since this is UK-US involvement, it's hard to see how the court will see merit on their defense.
Also I'd be interested to see whether or not the court would uphold a debt in bitcoin terms or fiat terms. This could make a huge difference, seeing that BTC has skyrocketed since the time they stole the funds.
For sure it will be the amount of fiat during the time of the crime. Or if the family has still those bitcoin (which I doubt), then they can pay with it.
I'm not sure how effective it might be.
Despite the evidence that he has, circumstantial evidence simply won't hold up in a court of law, so it really depends whether his case is strong enough.
Also I'd be interested to see whether or not the court would uphold a debt in bitcoin terms or fiat terms. This could make a huge difference, seeing that BTC has skyrocketed since the time they stole the funds.
Despite the evidence that he has, circumstantial evidence simply won't hold up in a court of law, so it really depends whether his case is strong enough.
Also I'd be interested to see whether or not the court would uphold a debt in bitcoin terms or fiat terms. This could make a huge difference, seeing that BTC has skyrocketed since the time they stole the funds.
This guy was willing to wait for years to track and find people who created and released that fake electrum wallet, and surprise surprise it was some kids from UK doing it
We see that boys sent those stolen coins to Bitfinex and I suspect they sold them right away, but they have been doing other crimes like sim swapping and stealing millions in cryptocurrency.
Spending $10K to hire private investigators is nothing if you believe in Bitcoin and if you know that it's value will grow exponentially in future.
He learned his lesson the hard way that you should always confirm and download wallets only from official sources, but most pathetic thing in this story is silence of parents who are probably aware about criminal activities of their son.
I see that clipboard monitoring was involved in this attack and I wrote an article today about improved version of this attack that can be applied to hardware wallets:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57835731
I also see there are two bitcointalk accounts involved in this story, but I can't find the other one sulaiman....
janders6:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/janders6-1306048
His post about Electrum Gold malware:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/electrum-gold-release-wallet-github-2398686
We see that boys sent those stolen coins to Bitfinex and I suspect they sold them right away, but they have been doing other crimes like sim swapping and stealing millions in cryptocurrency.
Spending $10K to hire private investigators is nothing if you believe in Bitcoin and if you know that it's value will grow exponentially in future.
He learned his lesson the hard way that you should always confirm and download wallets only from official sources, but most pathetic thing in this story is silence of parents who are probably aware about criminal activities of their son.
I see that clipboard monitoring was involved in this attack and I wrote an article today about improved version of this attack that can be applied to hardware wallets:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.57835731
I also see there are two bitcointalk accounts involved in this story, but I can't find the other one sulaiman....
janders6:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/janders6-1306048
His post about Electrum Gold malware:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/electrum-gold-release-wallet-github-2398686
Depends on which country he files the lawsuit in really. If in the UK, obviously UK law will apply, and it makes more sense because the family is there too. You can't really try someone without them being present to defend themselves (unless they don't and you are awarded default judgement of course).
If the other interpretation is just the one from the parents, then it's probably not going to be valid in a legal sense.
Does it mean that each one of them has a slightly different interpretation for the "discovery rule"?
- QuoteSchober’s attorneys argue (PDF) that “the statute of limitations begins to run when the Plaintiff knows or has reason to know of the existence and cause of the injury which is the base of his action,” and that inherent in this concept is the discovery rule, namely: That the statute of limitations does not begin to run until the plaintiff knows or has reason to know of both the existence and cause of his injury.
If the other interpretation is just the one from the parents, then it's probably not going to be valid in a legal sense.
What do you think of this case though,
It's one of those cases that could go either way! Both of the defendant's families are nothing but a bunch of low-life scammers [I'm referring to the part @Lucius quoted]. Having said those, I wonder why the victim in question, opted for a PI, as opposed to contacting the law enforcement agencies [perhaps he's hiding something].I'm not sure whose law should apply
Does it mean that each one of them has a slightly different interpretation for the "discovery rule"?- QuoteSchober’s attorneys argue (PDF) that “the statute of limitations begins to run when the Plaintiff knows or has reason to know of the existence and cause of the injury which is the base of his action,” and that inherent in this concept is the discovery rule, namely: That the statute of limitations does not begin to run until the plaintiff knows or has reason to know of both the existence and cause of his injury.
It might have been in the last 3 years, the victims is working hard with blockchain forensics to really track and identify the criminals which is not just young kids.
Interesting to note that the he reach out to the parents, but the parents did nothing, maybe just a slap on the wrist and their kids are free again. So this case might be a precedent, as it involved two countries and we don't know how things are going to work out assuming the relationship of US and UK.
Interesting to note that the he reach out to the parents, but the parents did nothing, maybe just a slap on the wrist and their kids are free again. So this case might be a precedent, as it involved two countries and we don't know how things are going to work out assuming the relationship of US and UK.
An interesting story that once again shows that it is very easy to deceive people with very cheap tricks - because all you need is clipboard malware and someone who is not intelligent enough to check the address to which they send Bitcoin. In this case, the owner decided to be persistent and found the perpetrators, but he also made a mistake by trying to solve the matter in a nice way - because he lost precious time writing letters to which he did not receive an answer.
When he finally filed the lawsuit, he received the following response from the opposite side :
In simpler terms, they plead guilty, but claim that the legal deadline for filing a lawsuit has passed. Given that this is an international dispute between US residents and UK residents, I'm not sure whose law should apply - but I'm sure the perpetrators and their parents knew what they were doing and obviously had no problem keeping the stolen money. The law in this case is more than absurd, because if you steal something and stay under the radar for 3+ years, no one can take legal action against you.
When he finally filed the lawsuit, he received the following response from the opposite side :
Quote
Neither of the defendants’ families are disputing the basic claim that their kids stole from Mr. Schober. Rather, they’re asserting that time has run out on Schober’s legal ability to claim a cause of action against them.
“Plaintiff alleges two common law causes of action (conversion and trespass to chattel), for which a three-year statute of limitations applies,” an attorney for the defendants argued in a filing on Aug. 6 (PDF). “Plaintiff further alleges a federal statutory cause of action, for which a two-year statute of limitations applies. Because plaintiff did not file his lawsuit until May 21, 2021, three years and five months after his injury, his claims should be dismissed.”
“Plaintiff alleges two common law causes of action (conversion and trespass to chattel), for which a three-year statute of limitations applies,” an attorney for the defendants argued in a filing on Aug. 6 (PDF). “Plaintiff further alleges a federal statutory cause of action, for which a two-year statute of limitations applies. Because plaintiff did not file his lawsuit until May 21, 2021, three years and five months after his injury, his claims should be dismissed.”
In simpler terms, they plead guilty, but claim that the legal deadline for filing a lawsuit has passed. Given that this is an international dispute between US residents and UK residents, I'm not sure whose law should apply - but I'm sure the perpetrators and their parents knew what they were doing and obviously had no problem keeping the stolen money. The law in this case is more than absurd, because if you steal something and stay under the radar for 3+ years, no one can take legal action against you.
Man Robbed of 16 Bitcoin Sues Young Thieves’ Parents
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/08/man-robbed-of-16-bitcoin-sues-young-thieves-parents/
And this is the actual copy of the mail the victim wrote to the parents, but it fail on deft ears.
So what he do is sue the parents themselves.
What do you think of this case though, will it prosper and make the parents liable and will he able to get back his bitcoins as clearly there are enough evidence to point out that their kids really stole it from him.
Quote
In a lawsuit filed in Colorado, Schober said the sudden disappearance of his funds in January 2018 prompted him to spend more than $10,000 hiring experts in the field of tracing cryptocurrency transactions. After months of sleuthing, his investigators identified the likely culprits: Two young men in Britain who were both minors at the time of the crime (both are currently studying computer science at U.K. universities).
A forensic investigation of Schober’s computer found he’d inadvertently downloaded malicious software after clicking a link posted on Reddit for a purported cryptocurrency wallet application called “Electrum Atom.” Investigators determined that the malware was bundled with the benign program, and was designed to lie in wait for users to copy a cryptocurrency address to their computer’s temporary clipboard.
A forensic investigation of Schober’s computer found he’d inadvertently downloaded malicious software after clicking a link posted on Reddit for a purported cryptocurrency wallet application called “Electrum Atom.” Investigators determined that the malware was bundled with the benign program, and was designed to lie in wait for users to copy a cryptocurrency address to their computer’s temporary clipboard.
https://krebsonsecurity.com/2021/08/man-robbed-of-16-bitcoin-sues-young-thieves-parents/
And this is the actual copy of the mail the victim wrote to the parents, but it fail on deft ears.
So what he do is sue the parents themselves.
What do you think of this case though, will it prosper and make the parents liable and will he able to get back his bitcoins as clearly there are enough evidence to point out that their kids really stole it from him.
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