Marco Streng CEO Genesis Mining: Please Save Cloud Miners & the Mining Contracts

Mahanton

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Quote from: shield132 on October 04, 2018, 11:30:35 AM

Quote from: fanatic26_ on September 28, 2018, 06:52:15 PM

I think the person that wrote that petition needs to understand a few things.

First he needs to understand how cloud mining works. People blaming a cloud service provider for the rise and difficulty and drop in price is a bit silly.

Second, he needs to understand how a company works. Their job is to make a profit, you cannot punish them for looking out for the best interests of their company.

Of course every company works for profit (don't talk about nonprofit organizations and etc). But I agree petition owner at some point, Genesis Mining isn't a good company, it was also already proven here as scam. When you buy contract, at first it seems you are paid well regularly but soon it lessens the amount of money, finally your contract is stopped and you never ROI.

Not totally a scam yet they are still operating as of today but the things they are doing do really acts a scam on where investors weren't turn out to be profitable on the investment they do made.
I had remembered when they do still have that lifetime contract and those who invested on those years do definitely reached out their ROI and for those newbies who do recently invested will
definitely feel the different thing when it comes to profits.Its being advised for a thousand times that cloud mining wont really be worthy.

Slow death

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Quote from: fanatic26_ on October 02, 2018, 04:47:52 PM

It is kind of a bet that the coin price will rise.

a bet that does not bring any benefit

Quote from: fanatic26_ on October 02, 2018, 04:47:52 PM

The only way to profit on a cloud contract is to have a steady price rise that outpaces difficulty adjustments for the life of the contract.

I read a comment that only if the price is $ 10,000 that will be profitable, the current price is $ 6500 and may take years to reach $ 10,000

Quote from: fanatic26_ on October 02, 2018, 04:47:52 PM

What exactly do you mean by fair and transparent?

I remember reading many comments from people who had bought contracts when the price was $ 14000 and even then these people had no profits. But genesis mining made promotions.

shield132

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Quote from: fanatic26_ on September 28, 2018, 06:52:15 PM

I think the person that wrote that petition needs to understand a few things.

First he needs to understand how cloud mining works. People blaming a cloud service provider for the rise and difficulty and drop in price is a bit silly.

Second, he needs to understand how a company works. Their job is to make a profit, you cannot punish them for looking out for the best interests of their company.

Of course every company works for profit (don't talk about nonprofit organizations and etc). But I agree petition owner at some point, Genesis Mining isn't a good company, it was also already proven here as scam. When you buy contract, at first it seems you are paid well regularly but soon it lessens the amount of money, finally your contract is stopped and you never ROI.

leowonderful

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Quote from: eternalgloom on October 04, 2018, 09:08:07 AM

Are there actually any customers of Genesis Mining who have made a profit with them in these last couple of years?
I've looked at some of the numbers in the past and always thought it was pretty much impossible to get any sort of ROI from their contracts.

I have yet to read a single good argument for investing in any of these cloud mining services.

If I would really want to mine without buying the hardware, I'd just rent a miner.
I doubt that would be profitable in these times, but I would at least know exactly what I'm getting.

I’ve also found that getting hardware hosted at a datacenter is a decent option if you’re willing to go through the process of buying miners yourself now. It’s a bit annoying buying direct from Bitmain now if you’re hosting at a US center, as tariffs are applied and KYC is now required from Bitmain, but you are still mostly in control of your hardware, and there isn’t a high risk of theft as long as you’re hosting with a reputable datacenter or hoster that has history. Mining profitability isn’t the greatest at the moment as you mentioned, but using this method means you have significantly more control over your marchines compared to cloud mining.

eternalgloom

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Are there actually any customers of Genesis Mining who have made a profit with them in these last couple of years?
I've looked at some of the numbers in the past and always thought it was pretty much impossible to get any sort of ROI from their contracts.

I have yet to read a single good argument for investing in any of these cloud mining services.

If I would really want to mine without buying the hardware, I'd just rent a miner.
I doubt that would be profitable in these times, but I would at least know exactly what I'm getting.

timerland

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Quote from: speedtrip on September 28, 2018, 05:38:07 PM

Many Genesis customers will have championed "genesis" creating brand awareness and ultimately helping it grow into the $1 billion operation it is today.

The Genesis customer base must be around 3 million today and it would be a grand gesture to stand by these investors and help them at least recoup their capital.

It surely makes more sense to retain existing customers rather than build a new following. Please support this petition in an adult and professional manner for maximum impact and share with other Cloud Miners and Stakeholders.

Spread the word

https://www.change.org/p/marco-streng-please-save-cloud-miners

Unfortunately, cloud mining is never going to be profitable for the investors. Otherwise, the cloud mining company would simply mine themselves, and continue to reinvest whatever they earn instead of offering plans to new users.

That's why people here tell prospective investors to stay away from cloud mining. Just read all the reviews and you'll see why.

There is really no way that you'll be able to get them to pay you any more or revive unprofitable contracts because it's all in the clauses of your initial contract. Once your contract falls below a certain point, it becomes terminated and void. Besides, you don't even know if they're actually mining at full capacity, they could be fabricating payout data for all anyone knows (not making accusations, just saying you have no way of actually proving or knowing).

buwaytress

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Quote from: HeRetiK on October 03, 2018, 07:51:22 AM

Quote from: buwaytress on October 03, 2018, 01:51:14 AM

For all the regulatory eyes on Bitcoin, the way cloud miners remain untouched for years has me baffled. Save for the cease and desist blip for GM in 1 US state (now withdrawn), they've been able to operate with impunity. Would have thought the scores of people scammed by now would have gone class action.

I know, right? I guess they managed to find their niche and legal loophole. Early predecessors of mining contracts (ASICMiner etc) still got busted (or at least threatened) by the SEC for selling "securities" with the aim of developing ASICs. And some of these securities actually did mine profitably! Now one just sells overpriced mining hashrate (assuming the hardware exists in the first place), calls it a "service" and all of a sudden it's totally legit.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I definitely don't want to have more regulatory focus on mining, but oh boy would I appreciate if people would stop falling for this crap. No wonder these kinds of "business models" stay profitable.

Legal niche must be, or someone with a lot of money and connections have got strong lobbyists in power.

What's worse is, as you pointed out, people actually doing legitimate mining and trying to sell products (contracts are a product, however you want to see it) get thrown under the bus, but the big guys like GM keep getting respect, recognition etc. They sit at conferences and meetings in European Commission backrooms, thanks to being recognised as industry leaders. But their business practices are as shady as they have been from Day 1, and unfortunately top all searches for Google, so newbies will still keep getting roped in.

It's impossible to avoid it either, cause they look legitimate, they sit on advisory boards for so many blockchain-related companies, and they're all covered in niceness every time you read the news about them. Where do newbies go to look for Genesis Mining? Google... not bitcointalk.

One class action from ten or so duped people is all it'll take to bring this to light.

HeRetiK

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Cloud mining turns out unprofitable for their investors because they underestimated difficulty increases? Who would have thought?

I'm afraid there's little to be done. GM sold their customers a naive dream of easy money which they all too eagerly gobbled up. A little more research into mining and cloud mining could have saved you a couple of bucks. Take it as a lesson and move on.

Quote from: buwaytress on October 03, 2018, 01:51:14 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on September 30, 2018, 07:05:30 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on September 29, 2018, 06:43:36 PM

Last time I checked GM was the company that offered lifetime mining contracts that were shut down when they became unprofitable for the customer.

Is that not a sign that they're less overtly scammy than most of them? It is of course scammy in itself, but many a cloud miner would carry on taking customer money claiming everything was fine as the possibility of profit got ever further away.

For all the regulatory eyes on Bitcoin, the way cloud miners remain untouched for years has me baffled. Save for the cease and desist blip for GM in 1 US state (now withdrawn), they've been able to operate with impunity. Would have thought the scores of people scammed by now would have gone class action.

I know, right? I guess they managed to find their niche and legal loophole. Early predecessors of mining contracts (ASICMiner etc) still got busted (or at least threatened) by the SEC for selling "securities" with the aim of developing ASICs. And some of these securities actually did mine profitably! Now one just sells overpriced mining hashrate (assuming the hardware exists in the first place), calls it a "service" and all of a sudden it's totally legit.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

I definitely don't want to have more regulatory focus on mining, but oh boy would I appreciate if people would stop falling for this crap. No wonder these kinds of "business models" stay profitable.

buwaytress

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Bloody hell, I thought I'd seen it all but this space keeps throwing up new surprises. Are we seriously asked to stand by people who've done nothing but sell false promises to unsuspecting normal guys who just wanted a simple in?

I might be inclined to be kinder had GM or any cloud miner been transparent and honest with the way they operated. But every time profit is cut, they leave their investors out in the cold and worse, announce new contracts and whatever bs new terms to reel new money in. Not once along the way did they ever publish proof of equipment, pool details, earnings, nada.

Standing by them is condoning their practices.

Quote from: gentlemand on September 30, 2018, 07:05:30 AM

Quote from: coolcoinz on September 29, 2018, 06:43:36 PM

Last time I checked GM was the company that offered lifetime mining contracts that were shut down when they became unprofitable for the customer.

Is that not a sign that they're less overtly scammy than most of them? It is of course scammy in itself, but many a cloud miner would carry on taking customer money claiming everything was fine as the possibility of profit got ever further away.

For all the regulatory eyes on Bitcoin, the way cloud miners remain untouched for years has me baffled. Save for the cease and desist blip for GM in 1 US state (now withdrawn), they've been able to operate with impunity. Would have thought the scores of people scammed by now would have gone class action.

fanatic26_

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Quote from: Slow death on October 02, 2018, 02:31:26 PM

Quote from: fanatic26_ on September 28, 2018, 06:52:15 PM

First he needs to understand how cloud mining works. People blaming a cloud service provider for the rise and difficulty and drop in price is a bit silly.

so explain us in detail

Quote from: fanatic26_ on September 28, 2018, 06:52:15 PM

Their job is to make a profit, you cannot punish them for looking out for the best interests of their company.

they already have high profits, people are asking that they be more fair and transparent

A cloud mining contract is not created to make a profit at the current spot prices. It is kind of a bet that the coin price will rise. The only way to profit on a cloud contract is to have a steady price rise that outpaces difficulty adjustments for the life of the contract. If it was more profitable to just mine rather than sell the contract, cloud mining would not exist. What selling a cloud contract enables a company to do is to front load the profit versus the slow steady drip of mining, most often it is done to feed further expansion of the company so that it can grow at a fast rate without bogging itself down with a large number of loans and other financial burdens.

What exactly do you mean by fair and transparent? Everything is spelled out to the letter in the contract as far as what to expect. It is not the company's fault that its customers do not educate themselves before purchasing a product. It is not the company's job to hold hands and coddle its customers. The onus is on the customer to learn and understand what they are getting into. It is quite unfair to blame the company for a clients ignorance.

Slow death

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Quote from: speedtrip on September 28, 2018, 05:38:07 PM

The Genesis customer base must be around 3 million today and it would be a grand gesture to stand by these investors and help them at least recoup their capital.

the owners of genesis mining had a lot of profit while many people had many losses and I highly doubt that they would help people to at least recover their capital

Quote from: speedtrip on September 28, 2018, 05:38:07 PM

It surely makes more sense to retain existing customers rather than build a new following.

But what if they are running ponzi scheme? think, why do they continue to make promotions and continue to attract more and more customers? if existing customers can not make a profit?

Quote from: fanatic26_ on September 28, 2018, 06:52:15 PM

First he needs to understand how cloud mining works. People blaming a cloud service provider for the rise and difficulty and drop in price is a bit silly.

so explain us in detail

Quote from: fanatic26_ on September 28, 2018, 06:52:15 PM

Their job is to make a profit, you cannot punish them for looking out for the best interests of their company.

they already have high profits, people are asking that they be more fair and transparent

gentlemand

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Quote from: coolcoinz on September 29, 2018, 06:43:36 PM

Last time I checked GM was the company that offered lifetime mining contracts that were shut down when they became unprofitable for the customer.

Is that not a sign that they're less overtly scammy than most of them? It is of course scammy in itself, but many a cloud miner would carry on taking customer money claiming everything was fine as the possibility of profit got ever further away.

coolcoinz

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Are you really going to pray to cloud mining scammers for help? Last time I checked GM was the company that offered lifetime mining contracts that were shut down when they became unprofitable for the customer. Said lifetime contracts sometimes did not even last a year. Now they're doing the same thing all over again. What if the price goes up next month? Their clients will be without contracts but GM will still have the hardware and will be able to mine for themselves now that the clients are no longer being paid.

fanatic26_

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I think the person that wrote that petition needs to understand a few things.

First he needs to understand how cloud mining works. People blaming a cloud service provider for the rise and difficulty and drop in price is a bit silly.

Second, he needs to understand how a company works. Their job is to make a profit, you cannot punish them for looking out for the best interests of their company.

speedtrip

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Many Genesis customers will have championed "genesis" creating brand awareness and ultimately helping it grow into the $1 billion operation it is today.

The Genesis customer base must be around 3 million today and it would be a grand gesture to stand by these investors and help them at least recoup their capital.

It surely makes more sense to retain existing customers rather than build a new following. Please support this petition in an adult and professional manner for maximum impact and share with other Cloud Miners and Stakeholders.

Spread the word

https://www.change.org/p/marco-streng-please-save-cloud-miners

Topic: Marco Streng CEO Genesis Mining: Please Save Cloud Miners & the Mining Contracts (Read 238 times)