The vast majority of the gold storage is in cold storage (or at least believed to be, I'm looking at you Germany 
)
)Gold is the reserve currency of the past. It could be used again for this purpose if bitcoin didn't take over.
Topic: massive cold storage of bitcoins? (Read 3331 times)
Gold is the reserve currency of the past. It could be used again for this purpose if bitcoin didn't take over.
That is biggest problem of BitCoin, people don't look at it as a money to use it, but as a treasury to keep for rainy days.
This false dichotomy is getting tiresome. It's not a choice between storing all your bitcoin away OR spending all of it. Just like with fiat, people have savings AND daily spending money. There is nothing wrong with having savings in bitcoin - the problem is not having enough places to spend bitcoin on a daily basis. I have my cold storage that I won't touch (savings) and I have a wallet on my phone with small amounts that I spend every chance I get.
Stop blaming people for holding their savings, which is wise, and put energy into getting more vendors to accept bitcoin, therefore increasing daily transactions in bitcoin.
There's another post on reddit today of someone who had 35 BTC stolen from "secure" wallets.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/
Certainly it seems like this guy knew what he was doing, but still somehow managed to get his BTC stolen....
I myself have taken all my bitcoins off of coinbase except for small amount. Except for a few donations, I haven't spent any this year.
I'm wondering, if investors put most of their bitcoins in cold storage (and subsequently, not use them for currency), what will be the result?
On one hand, they become more rare and they are held more tightly, which would seem to make them more valuable. On the other hand, they won't be used very much, which might mean they don't have as much value.
I'm not sure what to conclude. There are a lot of very smart people here and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/
Certainly it seems like this guy knew what he was doing, but still somehow managed to get his BTC stolen....
I myself have taken all my bitcoins off of coinbase except for small amount. Except for a few donations, I haven't spent any this year.
I'm wondering, if investors put most of their bitcoins in cold storage (and subsequently, not use them for currency), what will be the result?
On one hand, they become more rare and they are held more tightly, which would seem to make them more valuable. On the other hand, they won't be used very much, which might mean they don't have as much value.
I'm not sure what to conclude. There are a lot of very smart people here and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
I don't buy this!
I don't have much bitcoins to store so I only keep it in my old android phone that I don't use to connect to the internet. I heard that many people have their coins stolen by using brainwallet.org and one user here in BTT have accused me of stealing his coins by telling other people that the brainwallet address was mine. So if you want to keep your coins safe and secure, don't use any services offering you "secure and safe wallets" that seems to be shady and not trusted by any other users.
Some developers should implement a safe and easy to use wallet. If someone with experience encounter this type of problem, we can assume a non-geek will hesitate to use a currency that is not safe and not secure.
Is bitaddress.org safe though??
Personally, I don't consider any mainstream computer-implemented random number generators to be secure. That includes bitaddress.org's built in entropy source. My solution is to mix in my own entropy, at about 10% - 15%. What does that look like in practice? I accept the private keys that are supposedly randomly generated, make a few of my own 'random' modifications, swapping out 5 - 10 characters, and then turn that new private key into an address.
And, it can help to double or triple check the address derivation was carried out correctly. Feel free to import your custom private key into different pieces of software and make sure they all give the same result.
no, you remember wrong. it was about brainwallet.org which used silly simplification in obtaining randomness ; bitaddress is fine.
Is bitaddress.org safe though??
Personally, I don't consider any mainstream computer-implemented random number generators to be secure. That includes bitaddress.org's built in entropy source. My solution is to mix in my own entropy, at about 10% - 15%. What does that look like in practice? I accept the private keys that are supposedly randomly generated, make a few of my own 'random' modifications, swapping out 5 - 10 characters, and then turn that new private key into an address.
And, it can help to double or triple check the address derivation was carried out correctly. Feel free to import your custom private key into different pieces of software and make sure they all give the same result.
I use PiperWallet. 200$ machine. Bitaddress.org. Offline.
The vast majority of the gold storage is in cold storage (or at least believed to be, I'm looking at you Germany )
)
Sorry for the late reply. Thanks for pointing in the right direction. Electrum seems ideal for my purposes!
Secure not even close to offline. Not concerned.
That is biggest problem of BitCoin, people don't look at it as a money to use it, but as a treasury to keep for rainy days.
Since bitcoin is deflationary they use it as a speculative tool to increasing their wealth in terms of fiat. There is little way around this issue.
Which is ok. If the value keep going up, it might be better used as a store of wealth rather than being money.
I guess you mix terms "money" and "currency" here. Just putting something in a cold storage knowing it will be still worth something tomorrow - is already using it as some form of money. The good, value-storing, money. It still could be used as a currency - for performing exchanges - but the amount of such exchanges has nothing to do with it's "price" going up or down longterm. It may very well be used only as better gold, as a convenient value-store and value-transfer only, and be converted into fiat for any purchase, and still have incredible valuation.
In fact, I think the future for bitcoin is being the backbone of wealth storage and money transfer; all the local purchases will be performed in local fiat (prices of all fiat money would be expressed in bitcoin and will only serve as a temporary physical off-blockchain representation). Any government could then print as much fiat as they want, but that would result in their fiat tanking against bitcoin quick.
That is biggest problem of BitCoin, people don't look at it as a money to use it, but as a treasury to keep for rainy days.
Since bitcoin is deflationary they use it as a speculative tool to increasing their wealth in terms of fiat. There is little way around this issue.
Which is ok. If the value keep going up, it might be better used as a store of wealth rather than being money.
There's another post on reddit today of someone who had 35 BTC stolen from "secure" wallets.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/
Certainly it seems like this guy knew what he was doing, but still somehow managed to get his BTC stolen....
I myself have taken all my bitcoins off of coinbase except for small amount. Except for a few donations, I haven't spent any this year.
I'm wondering, if investors put most of their bitcoins in cold storage (and subsequently, not use them for currency), what will be the result?
On one hand, they become more rare and they are held more tightly, which would seem to make them more valuable. On the other hand, they won't be used very much, which might mean they don't have as much value.
I'm not sure what to conclude. There are a lot of very smart people here and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/
Certainly it seems like this guy knew what he was doing, but still somehow managed to get his BTC stolen....
I myself have taken all my bitcoins off of coinbase except for small amount. Except for a few donations, I haven't spent any this year.
I'm wondering, if investors put most of their bitcoins in cold storage (and subsequently, not use them for currency), what will be the result?
On one hand, they become more rare and they are held more tightly, which would seem to make them more valuable. On the other hand, they won't be used very much, which might mean they don't have as much value.
I'm not sure what to conclude. There are a lot of very smart people here and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Definitely wasn't secure, just another good reminder not to use untrusted sites with rubbish entropy to generate wallets. Sad though, I feel for the guy. Armory Armory Armory...
Yeah i havent heard any history about a well secured wallet where the guy dint download anything from internet and still lost his bitcoins, most of the hacks are done by some trojan they downloaded or because they stored the btcs in an unsecure place.
That is biggest problem of BitCoin, people don't look at it as a money to use it, but as a treasury to keep for rainy days.
Since bitcoin is deflationary they use it as a speculative tool to increasing their wealth in terms of fiat. There is little way around this issue.
Which is ok. If the value keep going up, it might be better used as a store of wealth rather than being money.
That is biggest problem of BitCoin, people don't look at it as a money to use it, but as a treasury to keep for rainy days.
Since bitcoin is deflationary they use it as a speculative tool to increasing their wealth in terms of fiat. There is little way around this issue.
When I attempted my first cold storage I was not aware that all the balance on the address must be spent even if the slightest amount from that address is transferred to some other address. This nearly costed me all my bitcoins because I was about to delete the wallet immediately after testing if the cold storage address really works (by sending 0.0001). You can definitely shoot yourself in the leg when messing around with cold storages.
What do you mean? Care to explain pls?
The change address thing https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change
Oh, yea, that thing. Thanks
LE: But that applies only to Armory right? I mean, if you backup your wallet.dat you're safe.
When I attempted my first cold storage I was not aware that all the balance on the address must be spent even if the slightest amount from that address is transferred to some other address. This nearly costed me all my bitcoins because I was about to delete the wallet immediately after testing if the cold storage address really works (by sending 0.0001). You can definitely shoot yourself in the leg when messing around with cold storages.
What do you mean? Care to explain pls?
The change address thing https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Change
When I attempted my first cold storage I was not aware that all the balance on the address must be spent even if the slightest amount from that address is transferred to some other address. This nearly costed me all my bitcoins because I was about to delete the wallet immediately after testing if the cold storage address really works (by sending 0.0001). You can definitely shoot yourself in the leg when messing around with cold storages.
What do you mean? Care to explain pls?
That is biggest problem of BitCoin, people don't look at it as a money to use it, but as a treasury to keep for rainy days.
well it's definitely true of people in this sub-forum
Offline electrum install with a watch-wallet on your online machine. Full access to your financial info while at the same time keeping them physically secure.
As for online wallets, I don't use them, but I will eventually have funds on Kraken when the price starts going up. They allow the use of Yubikey (physical token required to log in), so are likely more secure than my hot multibit wallet.
As for online wallets, I don't use them, but I will eventually have funds on Kraken when the price starts going up. They allow the use of Yubikey (physical token required to log in), so are likely more secure than my hot multibit wallet.
Wow!
All those coins were returned to the rightful owner:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/cihxnwj
But that was a great lesson
Edit: It's absolutely required to use external entropy to generate truly random data, like bitaddress and other do.
All those coins were returned to the rightful owner:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/cihxnwj
But that was a great lesson
Edit: It's absolutely required to use external entropy to generate truly random data, like bitaddress and other do.
WOW! Top man!
Wow!
All those coins were returned to the rightful owner:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/cihxnwj
But that was a great lesson
Edit: It's absolutely required to use external entropy to generate truly random data, like bitaddress and other do.
All those coins were returned to the rightful owner:
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/cihxnwj
But that was a great lesson
Edit: It's absolutely required to use external entropy to generate truly random data, like bitaddress and other do.
tl;dr -> Dont fucking use brainwallet.org.
Furthermore, BobAlison nailed the reasoning.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/cihsovm
Furthermore, BobAlison nailed the reasoning.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/cihsovm
Quote
It looks like brainwallet.org still uses JavaScript's Math.random, which is known to be cryptographically insecure:
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5651789/is-math-random-cryptographically-secure[1]
See the randomBytes function in http://brainwallet.org/js/bitcoinjs-min.js[2] - reformatting a little:
randomBytes: function (e) {
for (var t=[]; e>0; e--) {
t.push(Math.floor(Math.random() * 256));
return t;
}
}
It's up to the browser to decide how to implement Math.random. So it could be helpful to know the browser you used should someone want to follow up forensically.
This should be a wakeup call to anyone who relies on private keys generated though brainwallet.org or an insecure random number generator.
That said, how did you store your private keys? There are many ways they can fall into the wrong hands, both electronically and physically. Also, it's possible to leak information when spending. Did you by any chance spend from one or more wallets made the same way?
http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5651789/is-math-random-cryptographically-secure[1]
See the randomBytes function in http://brainwallet.org/js/bitcoinjs-min.js[2] - reformatting a little:
randomBytes: function (e) {
for (var t=[]; e>0; e--) {
t.push(Math.floor(Math.random() * 256));
return t;
}
}
It's up to the browser to decide how to implement Math.random. So it could be helpful to know the browser you used should someone want to follow up forensically.
This should be a wakeup call to anyone who relies on private keys generated though brainwallet.org or an insecure random number generator.
That said, how did you store your private keys? There are many ways they can fall into the wrong hands, both electronically and physically. Also, it's possible to leak information when spending. Did you by any chance spend from one or more wallets made the same way?
Sorry for off topic, but is there a definitive cold storage tutorial somewhere?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I1uefzJJ6nM
he uses bitaddress.org (not sure if you are willing to take the risk)
or do what uhoh and cubic earth said above (offline storage)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K0cGvUFBNEQ
this guy is very good, watch the entire video, he does ubuntu etc (takes more time, but is much more secure)
When I attempted my first cold storage I was not aware that all the balance on the address must be spent even if the slightest amount from that address is transferred to some other address. This nearly costed me all my bitcoins because I was about to delete the wallet immediately after testing if the cold storage address really works (by sending 0.0001). You can definitely shoot yourself in the leg when messing around with cold storages.
Sorry for off topic, but is there a definitive cold storage tutorial somewhere?
This one is quite good for armory if you have a dedicated offline machine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PGvrai3JxxI
Sorry for off topic, but is there a definitive cold storage tutorial somewhere?
Is bitaddress.org safe though??
Personally, I don't consider any mainstream computer-implemented random number generators to be secure. That includes bitaddress.org's built in entropy source. My solution is to mix in my own entropy, at about 10% - 15%. What does that look like in practice? I accept the private keys that are supposedly randomly generated, make a few of my own 'random' modifications, swapping out 5 - 10 characters, and then turn that new private key into an address.
And, it can help to double or triple check the address derivation was carried out correctly. Feel free to import your custom private key into different pieces of software and make sure they all give the same result.
There's another post on reddit today of someone who had 35 BTC stolen from "secure" wallets.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/
Certainly it seems like this guy knew what he was doing, but still somehow managed to get his BTC stolen....
I myself have taken all my bitcoins off of coinbase except for small amount. Except for a few donations, I haven't spent any this year.
I'm wondering, if investors put most of their bitcoins in cold storage (and subsequently, not use them for currency), what will be the result?
On one hand, they become more rare and they are held more tightly, which would seem to make them more valuable. On the other hand, they won't be used very much, which might mean they don't have as much value.
I'm not sure what to conclude. There are a lot of very smart people here and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/
Certainly it seems like this guy knew what he was doing, but still somehow managed to get his BTC stolen....
I myself have taken all my bitcoins off of coinbase except for small amount. Except for a few donations, I haven't spent any this year.
I'm wondering, if investors put most of their bitcoins in cold storage (and subsequently, not use them for currency), what will be the result?
On one hand, they become more rare and they are held more tightly, which would seem to make them more valuable. On the other hand, they won't be used very much, which might mean they don't have as much value.
I'm not sure what to conclude. There are a lot of very smart people here and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Definitely wasn't secure, just another good reminder not to use untrusted sites with rubbish entropy to generate wallets. Sad though, I feel for the guy. Armory Armory Armory...
Is bitaddress.org safe though??
bitaddress.org is properly implemented. Still wouldn't personally trust 35BTC to it though unless it was generated offline.
There's another post on reddit today of someone who had 35 BTC stolen from "secure" wallets.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/
Certainly it seems like this guy knew what he was doing, but still somehow managed to get his BTC stolen....
I myself have taken all my bitcoins off of coinbase except for small amount. Except for a few donations, I haven't spent any this year.
I'm wondering, if investors put most of their bitcoins in cold storage (and subsequently, not use them for currency), what will be the result?
On one hand, they become more rare and they are held more tightly, which would seem to make them more valuable. On the other hand, they won't be used very much, which might mean they don't have as much value.
I'm not sure what to conclude. There are a lot of very smart people here and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/
Certainly it seems like this guy knew what he was doing, but still somehow managed to get his BTC stolen....
I myself have taken all my bitcoins off of coinbase except for small amount. Except for a few donations, I haven't spent any this year.
I'm wondering, if investors put most of their bitcoins in cold storage (and subsequently, not use them for currency), what will be the result?
On one hand, they become more rare and they are held more tightly, which would seem to make them more valuable. On the other hand, they won't be used very much, which might mean they don't have as much value.
I'm not sure what to conclude. There are a lot of very smart people here and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
Definitely wasn't secure, just another good reminder not to use untrusted sites with rubbish entropy to generate wallets. Sad though, I feel for the guy. Armory Armory Armory...
That is biggest problem of BitCoin, people don't look at it as a money to use it, but as a treasury to keep for rainy days.
Money do work as a store of value. Fiat doesn't.
That is biggest problem of BitCoin, people don't look at it as a money to use it, but as a treasury to keep for rainy days.
Not all do, but many indeed. You know why? Because the price is still this speculative and the Bitcoin has a great potential: I think most of the users at these forums keep some of their BTC for the future, "just in case" it becomes worth much more. And they're right.
I also use it the same way. I've got a part of my BTC at cold wallets, which I keep for the future. I've got another part to trade a bit with, for example to trade with altcoins and hope for some profit by doing that (not really successfull the lasts weeks, but I really was earlier) and i've got a small part which I USE. With this part I buy things. I buy things from webshops which allow you to pay with Bitcoin, and I buy stuff on this forum. For example Steam codes, that works really well and fast
. 
That is biggest problem of BitCoin, people don't look at it as a money to use it, but as a treasury to keep for rainy days.
There's another post on reddit today of someone who had 35 BTC stolen from "secure" wallets.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/
Certainly it seems like this guy knew what he was doing, but still somehow managed to get his BTC stolen....
I myself have taken all my bitcoins off of coinbase except for small amount. Except for a few donations, I haven't spent any this year.
I'm wondering, if investors put most of their bitcoins in cold storage (and subsequently, not use them for currency), what will be the result?
On one hand, they become more rare and they are held more tightly, which would seem to make them more valuable. On the other hand, they won't be used very much, which might mean they don't have as much value.
I'm not sure what to conclude. There are a lot of very smart people here and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
http://www.reddit.com/r/Bitcoin/comments/295las/35_of_my_btc_gone_pc_not_compromised/
Certainly it seems like this guy knew what he was doing, but still somehow managed to get his BTC stolen....
I myself have taken all my bitcoins off of coinbase except for small amount. Except for a few donations, I haven't spent any this year.
I'm wondering, if investors put most of their bitcoins in cold storage (and subsequently, not use them for currency), what will be the result?
On one hand, they become more rare and they are held more tightly, which would seem to make them more valuable. On the other hand, they won't be used very much, which might mean they don't have as much value.
I'm not sure what to conclude. There are a lot of very smart people here and I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.
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