Topic: [Maybe WTS] 2013 Casascius Silver/Gilt MS-70 (Read 2425 times)

Yep, this is now sold

Sent you a pm OP.

So Blazer, did you sell this janky old round? 

Don't think there is another ms70 s2 0.5 out there to complete another set. Correct me if I'm wrong.

I believe there are two complete MS70 sets in existence

Viz

Oh wow didn't think that would have been possible. Congrats if you own one.

Top offer so far is 3.5BTC

But let's be honest about the range of variation in these coins. Except for the 2011 brass, the rest that are being offered for sale have NEVER been circulated, never sat unprotected in a desk drawer or in jeans pockets. They're all "from Mike's hands to yours" uncirculated mint condition.

The only criteria that can has variation to grade upon is the alignment of the first bits, the quality of the hologram, the alignment of the hologram to the obverse side BTC. Scuffs and condition of metal should also fall in this category but since these aren't circulated there are zero variation on the metal among coins.

So, to your point...are we the suckers for sending ANACS "the same" coins and believing in their varied grades?

If anything it makes ANACS choice to assign this coin as a 70 even more rare.

tl;dr This MS-70 is a rare gem that demands a nice premium. Make some more offers people and I might let her go!

I already have an offer of 3BTC

Well, all depends.  I've been a collector (normal coinage) for probably 20+ years, and if I see a decent close up shot of a coin I can usually guesstimate grade within 1-2 points with a 10 second look at the photo.  And that's just as a hobbyist.  Imagine if you're a professional grader and all you do day in and day out is look at coins.  They've probably each seen 90% of all coin types and conditions ever graded, and can easily peg a coin with 95% certainty what it would be very quickly just by picking it up before it goes under the loupe.

Now, there's exceptions to the rule as well.  I'd guesstimate that at least 85% of the coins going through a TPG are "common" - Morgan/Peace/Ike dollars, ASE's, all general US Mint coinage from the past 100 years.  Those I would say a pro grader could pick a spot-on grade in probably under 5 seconds since they see them all the time.  The "uncommon" ones - and those that are high value of any series - are usually flagged and go to a special panel of graders who spend much more time examining them and this time they all talk and come to a consensus on what it is.  Now, we're talking coins that are worth many thousands of dollars here... anything we're talking about with our rounds and most modern mint issues are not anywhere near that.

And the reason why its so quick is that they're looking at certain areas of the coins, not the whole thing.  Certain areas of the coin count towards the grade, others not so much.

Each series of coin has a set of "focal points" where your eyes naturally tend towards when you look at it.  This is what the graders concentrate on, and the grade is 99% of the time derived from.  It's easy and quick to examine the focal points of most coinage when you know them.  I can look at an eisenhower dollar and in under 10 seconds usually come within a point of a professional grader.  They don't examine the parts of the coin that "don't matter", such as the edge, and ignore most rim dings.  Especially in our case there's usually a hologram covering a good chunk of the reverse, which is mostly ignored unless it's mangled.

You're not too far off tho with your comment about the "bad day", graders are human after all, and they will get it wrong enough.  I'm sure there's more than a few coins in a 69 slab out there that should have been 70's, which is why 70's are held with such a higher premium.  It's so hard to get everyone to agree that a coins is that good to deserve it.

No mint grades their coins, they all come off the assembly line as-struck and usually put into either a "mint tube" roll of 10/20/40 (depending on coin size), or put into capsules (they will charge extra).  There is no way to know how any coin, round, or bar will grade from the mint, they are all put through the exact same minting process.  Usually you will have a variation of anywhere from MS-67 through MS-69 in most tubes of modern pressed coins (government or private mint), with a very few getting the 70. 

All grading is done by a 3rd party Grading company (TPG).  The "Big 3" are PCGS, NGC and ANACS.  ICG, SEGS, and some others round out the lower tier.

Each grader is human, and while there are written and pictoral guidelines, any grader can slightly differ from the other.  Most of the top TPG's use a trio of graders per coin, with none of the others knowing who graded before them or after, each coin raw, and no notes shared.  Each coin goes under a loupe/magnifier at a certain X number (I think it's 30, can't remember) and any imperfections are noted and count towards the grade.

Each coin usually spends less than 10 seconds with each grader, where they have to find imperfections and notate everything.  Think about that.  10 seconds or less.

There is such a fine line between a 69 and 70 -  some 70's could be 69's and vice versa.  There are many stories where people will re-submit a 70 and get a 69, or a 69 and it comes back a 70.  Most non-professional graders can't tell the difference between them, and with pros, you will also vary widely.

From my experience, it's literally a crapshoot. I have had some coins going in thinking they would be 70 but came back as 69's. All good for me, but damn, it seems to be like a dice roll.

For my reference, does a world renowned mint strike MS-70 coins off the press? Or is it a mixed bag or MS-68's, 9's and potentially no 70's? Also, what is the check and balances for attributing an MS-70 rating? It seems as though there's such a fine line between 69 and 70, no? What's to stop a collector knowing he's got a coin of superior quality and buy an MS-70 rating over a 69?

We've uncovered a mystery!   

Maybe they use HC when DCAM is too many characters for the labeling?

Isn't HC the same thing as DCAM? (Deep Cameo)? I don't have any sheets from anacs handy, but I believe the ones that say HC on the paperwork i've had come back always say DCAM on the slabs? Interesting on the grading at roadshows, never heard of that, will have to get back on their spam list, thanks!


They only ever sent me offers/deals on US mint coins, which obviously, are not what I really collect, so I had unsubscribed. I guess I should learn more about regular coins too.

ahhh ok thanks for that info, the only thing Ive ever had graded was some comic books... I think CGC is in Tampa

I seem to recall HC was High or Heavy Cameo

They wont grade on the spot in the office I dont believe. Hitting them at a coin show, they will do it there and then. They have a mail list, sign up and look out for the ANACS on the road announcements

here is the better link I was looking for, this is a pic of my coin thats graded and a population count below.

http://www.anacs.com/Populations/CertVerification.aspx?cert=4584534

Im still wondering what HC stands for?  Im sure its something simple and Im just spacing out on it or something

I have full silver set I need to get graded...just debating on whether to mail them in or deliver in person. Just found out they are in Englewood CO and I will be going there this spring. 

I wonder what an ungraded .5 S2 would go for?

For the price coblee is offering, id much rather buy a 1000btc gold cas allllllll day long 

Wheelz - we know you also buy the house wine in a restaurant... some people start from the top of the wine list... others from the bottom..

you cant help it if you are tight buddy!

Last one i seen get auctioned off went for 10btc or so.  And that was when btc was much lower.  True to each his own, but id rather buy 7-10 series 3 silver halves even for that price.  20btc and im getting a sack of halves.

Edit: for 20btc id rather get a 1000btc off coblee and have some change left over, no?

That says something as well, if the set isn't worth 50BTC to me one coin definitely isn't.

I'm not saying it's not a nice coin/set, but the buyer will have to make the determination whether it's worth that premium.  If the coins were sold at that valuation prior within a reasonable time-frame, some proof would be helpful in opening the whale wallet.

We are talking about one coin. The set will be worth much more. S2 0.5 is the rarest coin after the 1000btc one.

To each his own.  Although the MS-70 set isn't worth 50BTC to me, it sounds like there may be people out there who would pay that.

^^^^^

the rarity of that one coin makes the whole set the holy grail

Previous non-graded s2 0.5s have been sold for 20BTC+ and graded ones for 25btc+. As the ms70 is the only piece in the world and the only one to complete a ms70 set I think it's value will be well over 30btc (if not double) once buyers show up. Maybe a bitcoin museum in the future?

I would of said 50BTC...

To the right buyer, potentially 30 BTC or more. May sound absurd to some but that 0.5 S2 @ MS70 is worth a ridiculous sum of money.

and here comes the man with the one and only true 5 coin set!!!

There is only one person holding the ms70 s2 0.5 silver, so there is only one full ms70 casascius set in the world. Any idea on how much it would be worth?
(I know the owner of the full ms70 set, including late funded silvers)

Can get you in touch with someone local to me who does have an MS70 Casascius Silver Set which he would likely sell for the right price. If you want more details, shoot me a PM and I will get you both in touch with each other

PM'd.

Please elaborate, do you have a set for sale?

15BTC and one can be yours bud...

I know of 1 person with such a set (not me  )

The only MS-70 I have is a 0.1 silver. Imagine a whole set of Casascius in MS-70. 

Will we ever see that? Or does anyone know of anyone who may have a set?

Pretty cool thing that is going to be dropping soon is what I heard...

Hi sorry I meant post a link and forgot, click the Uncirculated tab

http://www.anacs.com/Populations/PopReport.aspx?params=0cOpZS2qVO7ri%2f1FI7sHBw40izibhWKm%2fJJn8W0SeMxNxWUPCuE13g%3d%3d

some where on the site I found a better page last summer... I will look for that again.  If i recall there were 11 gilt MS70

very rare

Do you know how many of those were Silver and how many were Silver/Gilt (like the one in this thread)?  Also, where can I go to see that information? 

Blazed,

How about a hint? 

What does this mean, intrigue

Of the 2000 minted 2013 Silver 1 BTC only 18 made it to MS70 so far, I have one I'm sending in soon I'm hoping will make the grade but will most likely be a 69

Just by opening it, you'd drop it's value to ms-69. A 70 would pretty much have to be graded during the minting process.

I will have some amazing pictures soon. Something new and exciting is coming Soon

Very nice pic Blazed!  I always wondered if a MS-70 was cracked out of the slab and sent back in would it get the same grade and if not, would it ever receive the MS-70 grade again?

That'd be a risk I probably wouldn't be willing to take.  

Don't be a tease, show us the face.

10BTC and it is yours!

Wow 

Blazed, how much for the table? 

Well it looks like five to me but most people here have more coins than fingers and toes... And I sent 2 to blazed to get graded so those could be mine :p

Hardly a stack...was maybe 2-3 other coins.

Sly pic with stacks and stacks of graded coins just off the edge of the frame. A nice, subtle way to let everyone know where you stand in the market. Stealth wealth style!

I do believe that coin shines like the moon!

I think it's time, let's see pictures of what a MS-70 looks like!   

Dont know if i seen any at all up for sale, this is one nice coin blaze. 

Are you the first owner of these coins? No pgp docs I guess?

They are around, it's just most MS-70s I've heard of have been privately sold, and have not seen the public market.

I myself would prob not let a ms70 2013 gilt let  go for abything less then 3btc, and I'd prob set my ask price somewhere around 3.8btc. It's a hefty premium but I have not seen a ms70 for sale yet so they are very rare.

Nope, funded Jan 2014.

2013 funded or 2016 funded? I know of a few 70s from the 2016 funded group

Curious what the market has to say for a MS70. I only have 2 out of every coin I have ever graded (a lot...trust me). With the right offer I will let one go so make a strong offer. Even with ANACS grading slightly higher these are extremely rare.

(Pictures in a few minutes)