Topic: McDonald's Bitcoin payment at El Salvador are broken, users complain (Read 363 times)

This is a temporary problem and it has been solved(maybe it will occur again in the future, who knows). There's no reason to overdramatize and the main problem wasn't the BTC blockchain but the crypto payment processor. I don't like the idea of using BTC to pay for hamburgers and other kinds of junk food. The smart people would just HODL their BTC and pay for food via fiat. I also don't like the idea of forced BTC adoption(the type of adoption which happened in El Salvador). If the people don't want to pay via BTC, that's fine. Just don't force them to pay via Bitcoin.

Yes you are right. No one forces anyone to pay in Bitcoins for services or goods. This is the choice of each person. Well, it also happens that payments do not go through, but this system also has disadvantages, like any other. Time will pass and everything will get better. Most likely, the problem is in the payment system itself, and not in the transactions.

This is what I think so, they've probably expedited the process haplessly without the tests because they were on a deadline and now they're deploying this when it's still incomplete, that's what I think about this thing, if it was finished, they're probably not going to see any problem with the payment process. This isn't an issue of bitcoin in my opinion, it's probably more on the POS.

All fast food restaurants have some kind of issue especially with machines. Even McDonald’s couldn’t be bothered to fix their ice cream machine (if you know what I mean haha)

It’s possible that it’s not specifically bitcoin that is only experiencing these issues. It could be that other online payment methods as well experience this issue. Maybe it’s the processing of the actual machine.

Fast food restaurants use a what we call POS SYSTEM or point of sale. This is where you order and you pay. There’s still other processes involved to authorize the transaction so it might be possible that the cause may have been there.

Either way, they should do a better job but nonetheless it is nice to see bitcoin to be available in such normal places such as a MdcDonald’s.

This title is clickbait and very much similar to the news that Tesla has begun accepting bitcoin hehehe. However, if the buyer wants to pay in bitcoin, it will take them to a payment processor that is very much similar to bitpay.com. The title for these types of news should be Tesla has partnered with bitpay.com as their new payment processor.

In any case, on this broken bitcoin payment news in El Salvador, it appears that the news media outlets are also using the tactic to hype bitcoin to also fud bitcoin hehehehehe.

True!  I would rather pay with another option if I have to pay almost half of the amount purchased for the transaction fee.  Bitcoin transaction fee situation is not good for micropayment and to solve this issue is to use a centralized third-party application where transfers are made internally (which makes the transfer free) which many  Bitcoin enthusiasts especially those who advocate decentralized payment systems frown upon.  LN is also not a good option IMO especially if it is only a one-time transaction since one have to fund in order to create a channel that includes fund and transaction fee and I believe the fee is dependent on the charge of the node the LN network is trying to open[1] (pls correct me if I am wrong on this)


True creating a Lightning Network channel is way more complicated than just sending BTC directly so it needs more technical people that understand Bitcoin and Lightning Network and its integration.  This means a company need to pay more for the maintenance of the said system to avoid delay fixes and unnecessary down time of the system.

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[1] https://bitcoin.stackexchange.com/questions/79577/how-much-bitcoin-is-needed-to-start-a-lightning-node

Indeed one of the hassle things for this one specially you would really be needing up to wait for some network confirmation before you could really be able to proceed even if it means on using up some
payment processor but still you would be needing up that network confirmation at least one. On the moment that the network blocks would be too long on making up those block confirmation then
you would really be having such delay and its really that a hassle thing. Im not really that against Bitcoin but it is indeed true that when it comes to simple things like buying up something
even if it means on using those processors but still not really that the same when paying up with those traditional fiat payments on which it would really be that instant.

I dont know on how it would really be resolved out in regarding into such condition on which it would really be better and best to look up for some solution
or approach in regarding into this problem because actually this is something that be a concern for those crypto loves or users.

So much in the post that explains this isn't Bitcoin, but the payment processor (and as you said yourself, a problem later discovered to be with the Lightning node).

Now if they had just transacted on Bitcoin itself, there wouldn't have been a problem. Okay, one issue of consumer choice. I can pay 2800+ satoshi but do I want to pay the fee (today the recommended fee is about 43% of the payment)?

I'm not for or against LN but there's always that overlooked thing, not just in El Salvador but everywhere they tried using Bitcoin (or Lightning). You have to have the right support. Trained staff. People watching the nodes. Making sure the network's usable. A fault could also happen if using Bitcoin anyway, even if they were using BTCPay, for example, but it crashed. And you still couldn't say Bitcoin was at fault.

Don't say that, whenever there is a challenge, you face it and not that you run away from it leaving it unsolved, have there not been series of network issues related to the use of fiat or other gateway payment systems, even in the bitcoin network, we once had the issue of bulkiness and that was resolved through the layer 2 protocol, this alone cant justify the reason why we should not take bitcoin as the most preferred digital currency for making payments.

its got nothing to do with the bitcoin network
its to do with issues with the lightning network

This can be easily fixed by using apps in transfers like sending internal transfers of  Bitcoin within an exchange, i.e., internal transfers like Binance account to Binance account.  We all know that sending Bitcoin normally won't compete with recent fiat currency instant transfer methods (except for international transfers) but using an application and doing internal transfers within  an application or platform accounts won't lag Bitcoin behind.


they had the price in fiat currency and got an equivalent price in Satoshi... I think it makes sense since their item is first priced in fiat currency and integrating Bitcoin payment comes later so it is logical that the item is priced in fiat then converted to satoshi in equal value.


Using an application and internal transfers between accounts can easily fix this but sadly, the process will become centralized since there is a need for third-party involvement (the apps) to make the instant transfers possible.

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It is obvious that the problem with the Bitcoin payment system on Mcdonalds is the application, probably some glitches or unexpected error on the process making the visual presentation to terminate or shut instantly skipping the needed details for the customer to see.

This is not a problem coming from the Bitcoin network but the application.

The issue is with the machine and not really with the Bitcoin network. These days, Bitcoin transactions are so fast, and the transaction fee is also low. If they had just provided a normal Bitcoin address or QR code to the address, the transaction would have been processed without any issues.Everybusiness, shop, or company that accepts Bitcoin as a means of payment only does so as an alternative method of receiving payment from customers without forcing customers to pay with Bitcoin. Paying with Bitcoin is only the choice of customers. 

I don't know what's the case in this particular situation. I do remember watching vlogs about El Salvador and people trying to pay with BTC there, and I noticed that a lot of places allegedly accepted Bitcoin, but in practice they didn't and there were some sort of bugs, errors etc. when people tried paying. I'm sure it's still the most developed country in the world in terms of Bitcoin adoption, but my understanding was that Bitcoin not actually working as a payment option in El Salvador is a common issue. The law mandates accepting Bitcoin because it's legal tender, but perhaps the population is less willing to use it.

FYI a much larger overwhelming number of people are using other centralized payment systems such as PayPal to make their payments that usage of centralized shittokens like tether is negligible in comparison.

For payments that need to be done quickly and with small value, Bitcoin on chain transactions are not solutions. Bitcoin Lightning Network off chain transactions are solutions, faster and cheaper in transaction fee. It can meet demand on time, cheap fee and relevant for small transactions like purchases things at McDonald stores.

I did not see information for Lightning Network in these photos and above discussions so McDonald kiosk only accept Bitcoin on chain transactions, not Lightning Network off chain transactions.

They began the adoption since 2022.
https://cointelegraph.com/news/mcdonald-s-starts-to-accept-bitcoin-and-tether-in-swiss-town

Agreed. That's why McDonald's should accept Dogecoin as a kiosk option (still to slow for an at-the-counter option).

McDonald's could seriously help their branding by accepting $DOGE.

As for El Salvador, its a shame their populist president got conned by some Twitter influencers for the sake of pumping Bitcoin... An unfortunate situation. But at least they are providing lessons that LN-friendly businesses/payment processors can learn from.

Even if machines like this or the payment processors behind them didn't malfunction, bitcoin would still be an absolutely lousy way to pay for fast food or any in-and-out kind of service that has to be paid for quickly.  If anyone can make a cogent argument as to why that's not true, please feel free to do so because I've never heard one before (though that's kind of off-topic here).

This "news" is nearly at the level of 'ATM at local Walgreens isn't working!'.  In other words, it's not really news.  Hell, it isn't even big news these days when a new merchant starts accepting bitcoin like it used to be a few years ago.  People just don't like spending it when they might make a profit by holding it and using fiat instead.

bitcoin for small amounts was deemed ok for small amounts pre 2017. due to how a $3 burger was not worth re-orging a blockchain, however with things added to bitcoin like RBF it made bitcoin near impossible for recipients to want to accept zero confirm's because now tx's can be dropped, rejected via the sender redirecting value to different addresses via RBF whilst transactions are waiting.. this was the way that LN became promoted as the zeroconfirm payment method. then the way bitcoin devs changed the fee estimate and bump fee defaults were done to make small payments to become more costly than a mcdonalds burger, again done to promote LN

the whole premise of manipulating bitcoin so that people have to pay more with the delusion that it helps miners, was another mis judgement by devs pretending they were economics experts(their not), devs dont realise the CEX market price is what rewards mining pools via deflation. also whereby more transactions per block would create more revenue for miningpools as a total of the block reward bonus.

now we have it where people need to lock in value to a dodgy subnetwork and do it over multiple lumps(channels) for the HOPE(not100% success rate) that a payment will go through on the subnetwork.. thats even worse of an experience or strategy compared to people deciding to buy a giftcard for a value amount equivelant to a months worth of meals

Payment processor providers solve this kind of problem for businesses like McDonalds, as it told since it is a problem for the payment processor itself, then it's really ruined, the essence of accepting Bitcoin as payment is ruined because the bridge that connects from consumer to the producer is broken, it just sad because the blame for some people will lead to Bitcoin itself, especially that those who really not understand how it works.

Most of the McDonald's kiosk machines are like that with my experience. I guess that even if the country where that McDonald's branch is in if their kiosks are like, I'd really choose to pay with the cashier and counter instead.

Nothing beats that bad system in McDonald's or at least that's with my experience because several times I did want to pay using their typical payment processors and they're mostly in errors so I have to pay in cash.

I agree, from these problems, there will be more and more solutions to fix it.

Well, we can expect more of this, and it is common because El Salvador is just discovering and, step by step, implementing bitcoin in every transaction, so there's still possible errors, and those are things that need to be fixed and considered in order to make the experience and implementation of bitcoin more smoothly. It is also expected that there will be some errors that might occur because El Salvador implements bitcoin without proper thinking or planning, so we can expect that some people might complain, and for sure, some of them will not use bitcoin transactions as it will be an inconvenience for them. But I think this issue should be fixed by its people or who manages it, because if not, then bitcoin implementation in their country might not be successful. And it depends on that country if other countries will also adopt or implement bitcoin, because they are the first implementors of bitcoin in their systems.

Bitcoin can still be a great alternative for people who would not be bothered to wait a few minutes for a Transaction to finish.  I think Bitcoin is still a community thing.  Where you, as a Business, support Bitcoin and decide to offer an option for other people like you who like Bitcoin too.  It is definitely not as reliable as Visa or Master Card for usual day to day Transactions, but then Cards have their own caveats too.

Bitcoin users who decide to pay at a fast food are very naive if they think Bitcoin is as fast and reliable as Visa to use and offers the same comfort level.  You get what you get, Bitcoin is so much more raw and offers a less comfortable but much more controllable option to Payments.

My opinion however.  Feel free to contradict.

my view is there will be (in the future) a niche for SOME utility via subnetworks.. not a sole subnetwork everyone needs to be pushed to but different subnetwrks for different purposes..however we have for 7 years gone through an era where developers have stalled/delayed/avoided bitcoin scaling. and infact done things to bitcoin to cause it to be more of a headache purely to promote LN as the sole solution everyone should move to, pretending/false promoting LN as something that can and would serve and meet everyones needs to not need to use the bitcoin network directly

i call that era the literal "segregation" /apartheid era.. trying to displace natives(legacies) to no longer feel their home is theirs and they have to move to a new community of empty promises and such

LN is about unsettled balance being agreed on (IOU) so it is a credit/debt system of borrowing routers balance to pass the parcel of value and then settling up later... which is another economic failure of the LN model

in future there will be new subnetworks of different design/economic model for niche usage, but concentration needs to return to scaling bitcoin and fixing the changes done since 2017 that has caused more problems on the bitcoin network(done just to promote the push to LN by diminishing bitcoins utility)

 

Second layer "solutions"... we need scalability on the base layer.
If we're not using Bitcoin (LN is not BTC but a convulsed receipt network) then we could as well use Mastercard.

The Lightning network was a DOA idea that stripped users of the precious things Bitcoin has to offer. Obviously it was a massive failure in El Salvador where in the heart of Bitcoin support in the world users are overwhelmingly paying using USDT on the Tron network instead of Bitcoin. The problem is there and the folks leading are sending us down a dead end.

el salvador had issues with LN in its first try a few years ago

many businesses/services and chivo moved away from LN as the back bone and instead used a CEX to bank peoples btc deposits and do internal database swaps of peoples balance on that cex(alphapoint) as the backbone of chivo

however certain entities are trying again to push for LN routed payments outside of the chivo system and again getting hit by the same bottlenecks as last time

both cases of el salv crypt payment failures are LN based, where the channel partners of LN whom host the 'inbound balance' and routing paths end up having too many payment events routing through but not enough locked balance to finalise/fulfill payment events

so again LN is not fit for purpose and they just wont learn
but to hide the fact that LN is crap they arrogantly buzzword the fault as a 'bitcoin break' even when users having faults never even use the bitcoin network, but instead using the LN network

That is for sure because they are not new in this game anymore, so/and I'm sure that this isn't only/also the first time that they have experienced such an issue. They will do their best to fix it because if not, then they can lose a good number of customers. Money is hard to find, so I won't blame them if they will panic immediately but they should also realize that it can't help anything.

The best thing to do when this situation arises is to calm down and wait. If machine data's are not enough, indeed that they may need the help of the cameras. Almost all establishments now has it and it's very useful for different situations including this one here.

1. Bitcoin: A Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System
2. Mcdonald's machine with OpenNode as a 3rd party payment processor

See the issue? 


Using a centralized system again, another issue!

can people stop saying things about bitcoin when its actually things going wrong with software related to lightning

lightning is a totally different network. the hint is in the N of LN

It can be technical issues and will be fixed. Users certainly feel panic with things, issues relate to their money and if I am in that situation, I would be panic too.

Bitcoin ATM or centralized exchanges can use services from payment processors and sometimes there are technical problems. These companies can have their ways to check problems, and identify payments from users and re proceed manually for users who got problems. They can get data from their machines and with support of camera records maybe.

I think this is the first time that this is being reported since they started to accept bitcoin. It is nothing wrong with bitcoin but the company processing it. I don't it is cause for alarm or any panic so long as users didn't lose their funds and there is no repeat of it. If there is a recurrence they could either change the payment processor or totally abandon crypto payment. I think the latter may be detrimental to the growth of the business. They may lose customers and then revenue. It would be wise if they can anticipate these issues before it happens so they they lose to their competition.

Another reason why Bitcoin isn't the best choice to be used as a currency.

The company don't want loss, so they don't want the price of their product/service equivalent in Bitcoin, they use payment processor to convert fiat price in Bitcoin.

On the other hand, customer want convenience and fast payment, they don't want to wait for few minutes if they have an another straightforward payment option.

If you read the tweet, it's due to OpenNode i.e. payment processor.

This has been a persisting trouble and users on X (formerly Twitter) complained bitterly that they were not able to pay using bitcoin on McDonald's Bitcoin powered payment process at El Salvador. Not sure if the report sent out to Open node about this error have been resolved or a note sent out to the users regarding such a dispute.

Amongst the multiple users who complained, Zeus and Leo Weese, (members of Twitter cryptocurrency community) share this on their page. The problem here is that when you try paying, the screen that's meant to display the invoice would freeze. However, after a while "Zeus" managed to scan the screen after it flashed for a nano second. The other user paid using the counter.

What could have been the cause to this issue?





Above is actually the invoice supposed to be that of ZEUS which he luckily scanned and paid.

Link to post: https://x.com/LeoAW/status/1794463761010729132?t=SSCajImRqyv5e_1_3iH5tQ&s=19

Note: it's not a fresh news, as the tweet is dated back to 25 and 26 May. Thanks for reading.