Topic: Means-tested aid leaves collateral damage. (Read 155 times)

My understanding is the payments to taxpayers will be sent based on their 2018 tax year payments, but the actual amount will be based on their 2020 (or maybe 2019) tax year income. So at tax time, you may end up owing some of the money back, or you may receive a credit if your income went down.

Socialism ALWAYS looks good, but is bait for a trap that ends up being something horrible. That is the defining trait of socialism throughout history. Socialism is an ideological virus that coats itself with utopian dreams to it can insert itself into a society just long enough to infiltrate it, eat out it's substance, and redirect it toward reproducing its own totalitarian goals. Socialists are a bunch of dogs crowded around a puddle of antifreeze barking how sweet it is, and everyone who doesn't lap it up just doesn't get it.

UBI is a HORRIBLE idea. You can print money infinitely. Resources and labor are still finite. All UBI does is hand out more paper. As a result, the price of those resources nearly instantly go up, and everyone is back at square one. Except now, you are punishing the actual productive class of society, incentivising them not to produce, and have a debased economic system. Supporting UBI is the economic equivalent in believing in there being a pot of gold at the end of a rainbow. The rainbow never ends, but you will never stop pretending it is attainable and that gold is waiting for you.

We get socialised risk and privatised profit, same as we always do.

Governments are implementing what look like socialist policies, but whereas a socialist government would do so from ideological conviction, the current administrations, Trump in the US and Johnson in the UK are simply doing whatever the f*ck it takes to keep the economy alive. Some of these new policies, with their staggering outpouring of money, may appear to be implemented in order to care for voters in their hour of need, but are actually implemented in a desperate bid to retain the status quo, where the rich get richer and everyone else gets slowly ground into the dirt.

These policies may look like socialism, but they are not socialism at all.

Absolutely true. This is because the government is not trying to rescue and support the people, it is trying to rescue and support the economy. US, UK and probably most other governments are throwing money at this thing and implementing policies that only a few weeks ago would have been anathema, and condemned as 'socialist'. It's not really socialist at all; it's simply whatever measures might work right now to prop up a failing economy. Those in charge haven't suddenly developed a conscience. They couldn't care less if some people fall through the cracks, so long as the economy holds up.

Yes, we do. I've posted about UBI before, and it's been trialled in a few places. Now perhaps might be a good time to try it on a larger scale. I don't know how much time and money it would cost to evaluate each of thousands (possibly even millions) of applications for assistance on a case-by-case basis, against a backdrop of a country (metaphorically for now) on fire. Far better to try UBI, and free up resources that would have been wasted in needless bureaucracy to instead face and fight COVID-19.

Do you mean that with all the CV lockdowns, we will only get socialism with the few people we are locked down with?

"We only want a LITTLE bit of socialism, it will stop there we promise!"

[gets a little bit of socialism]

"WE NEED MORE SOCIALISM!!!"

Rebound in the economy and for businesses will recover for sure but I don't expect this to happen soon for anything else, it might take a while to get the businesses to recover and with all the lost revenue this time of the year, it's going to be part of the bad years. For the freelancer's aspect, it could still be profitable if it's an online gig. Online tutoring is the norm these days anyway.

Everyone has taken a hit in this and it shouldn't be taken lightly as well. The resources like alcohol are booming right now but you could see the effects on these events on people. It shows the selfish side of humanity, not everyone but you would see the hoarding.
 
You are saying Bitcoin?  

A lot depends on where you are as well. I could probably survive on just a bit of money for diesel, as I'm in a semi-rural area, but it would give me a pretty low quality of life. Add a bit for the phone and internet, and it is till pretty low though.

if your making $75k then im pretty sure that you can afford basic food.
i think more people should be concerned with supporting the homeless and those only on $17k
people who will really suffer

at $75k your not really suffering, so those LUCKY enough to be just below the $75k should treat it as a treat. and gift
after all if the number was $80k. those on $81 would complain
if the amount was $50k there would be people on $51k complaining
if the mount was $200k people on $201k would complain

my point is those at just above or around $75k do not actually NEED the support compared to those on $20k
yea free money feels nice. but atleast have a thought for those who are actually poor

1.New York, Washington, and California are the most affected parts of the country and also have cost of living that is well above the national median.  75,000 everywhere else is much different from 75,000 in these places.  You can't just pick a number like that and say no one above that number needs help. Everyone should get relief.

2. Just because someone made 75,000-100,000 or more in 2018 or even 2019, doesn't mean they would make that same amount this year.  A lot of people have variable income that is subject to "good years" and "bad years".  A lot of people have income that is seasonal or contractual and not subject to "unemployment" benefits because if you don't have an employer or loss of hours to point to, you can't claim losses.  Think about entertainers, free-lancers and private tutors.   

3. A ton of people fall through the cracks when determining if their business was "affected" by covid-19.  A lot of people have businesses that are less than a year old and don't show up under 2018 taxes but still can take a huge hit right now.  That doesn't qualify as an affected business.  All of the small business help seems to be geared towards payroll or brick and mortar rent payments.  Nothing for the sole proprietor.  Its literally impossible to determine the cause and degree of loss of clients due to COVID-19.


We need universal payments.