Topic: MegaBigPower.com - Managed Hosted Mining (Read 7974 times)

I donot see the January reels anymore. The pricing was right on that one, ~$5 a pop.

do you have chips now?

Not related in any way other than, of course, you.

LOL what a joke that is. Good luck Dave, you need it.


Hint: STOP FCKING INVOLVED WITH PONZI SCHEME AND SCAMMERS... unless you're a scammer as well. In my eyes, to the last minute you still vowed for Tom is enough to say you're not better than a scammer.

I'm happy to announce my involvement with the 100TH Mine project, as hosting provider of choice!  This is a great project - BitFury has the design doing simulations already and the project is on track for mining in the June/July timeframe.  What I like about it is the price point - at $5/GHs, it amounts to 200GH/s for the same $1000.  I think its a worthy place to put your hardware dollars, especially if you got aced out of bASIC, BFL or Avalon.

For those of you who haven't checked out BitFury's FPGA project: http://www.bitfury.org/bitfury110.html

One thing to make very clear: this is not a reborn bASIC project, does not use Tom's chips, is not related in ANY way to bASIC.


https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/picostocks-100ths-bitcoin-mine-100th-140366

It sounds like you don't know what you're talking about.

I don't think you have any more understanding of clustered computing or infrastructure than your intended market demographic.

/thread

He's hosting devices from any manufacturer.

lol, I guess this idea is shot down now since btcfpga will not be delivering products at all.

So, let's do the math, since math is fun. Even if BTC price were $20 and Dave hosted a full 5% of the network, a full 24 hour day of power outage would cost miners $3600. With a more reasonable 2% of the network hosted, even at $25/BTC a full day of downtime would only be a cost of $1800.

At 2% of the network and $25/BTC, you could be without power for one week a year and it would only cost you $12,600. That's not chump change, but you'd need a lot of downtime to justify the generator. That's without even looking into how profitable running the generator is. You pay low rates for power, but a diesel generator is considerably more expensive per kWh to run. Even if the generator was free, you might want to look into what the costs are for providing the backup power and whether it would just be cheaper to buy coins to compensate for lost revenue. You might find you're close to break even on diesel power once the network catches up to ASICs.

Edit: Not exactly the world's greatest source, but I'm sitting in a waiting room and research on a phone sucks. Wikipedia says a modern diesel genset will consume about 0.28-0.4 litres/kWh, so say 0.08 US gallons (0.3l) per kWh. At an average of US$4/gallon, your cost just in fuel to run on the generator would be $0.32/kWh.

IMHO it is a complete waste of money and time to set up redundant power for a mining operation. I mean do the math, people.

A miner shouldn't care if he is down 1 day every year due to power outages. That's only a downtime of 0.27% therefore a 0.27% loss of your yearly mining profits... This is not like a high-traffic e-commerce website where a downtime of 1 day during the christmas season would cost you a bigger percentage of your revenues.

For 200kW you'll probably be looking at 6-cyl turbocharged Diesels with liquid cooling.  Dry weight will be 1.5-2.5 tons.  I'd expect to pay at least $20k for a used one.

A transfer switch for that kind of load won't be cheap either.

Thanks Bogart - great suggestions here.  I'll be honest - some of this redundancy fits my business plan, but not all of it.  For example getting redundant power feeds at upwards of 800A service is not in the cards - I don't think there's even another power provider in this city.  I plan to have one power service and one backup generator - but getting a backup generator that can supply full load is also going to be a trick. 

I'm curious if Washington has low enough summer ambient temperatures such that you could filter outside air for particulates and use it as your cold-air. It looks like Seattle averages highs in the 70s during the summer. Drop your average electricity costs at the risk of having to throttle back during June and July. Would be a neat solution.

It's under 3 cents a kw in my county. I've considered doing the same thing, but without renting a large facility with proper cooling its unrealistic. Doing it on a small scale would be easy enough though, once you have to rent something to house excess units it would take a whole lot to cover rental costs. If we never moved away from using gpu's a lot of people would do this kind of thing.

In the GPU mining threads many people have shown that the way to get best hash/dollar is not by esotheric cooling but by underclocking and undervolting to meet the available thermal budget.

So again, marketing to the OCD and newbie crowds.

Oh, on by the way: BlackBox is a recognized brand name with long history in marketing network stuff to newbies. So anyone who feels themselves persuaded by their glossy marketing collateral should maybe adjust their self-awareness appropriately. I'm not going to generally diss BlackBox, because their marketing materials are top notch and may serve as an usefull reference for "maximum non-insane prices".

There's even this radical-looking submerged liquid cooling solution:

http://www.grcooling.com/liquid-cooling-in-the-data-center/

Mostly in the conditioning of the power.  I suppose for mining it's not really a big deal if things reboot, though I imagine a select few critical systems ought to still be UPS'd.

@ Dave

There are alternatives to multiton CRACs

http://www.blackbox.com/resource/genPDF/White-Papers/EXTENDING-THE-LIFE-OF-YOUR-DATA-CENTER.pdf

What's the value proposition of that requirement? To me it looks like something to attract obsesive-compulsive nutbags or completely clueless newbies.

It would probably be helpful if you stated which recognised data centre security standards you intend meeting.  It's obviously not realistic to expect that you could offer the same level of security as facilities such as those used by financial service providers or that you need to do so.  It's going to be cheaper to cover some risks via insurance.

I was thinking something like http://www.iodatacenters.com/
But the secret sauce is always in the location, so who knows. It's part of why I don't want to have to get my own industrial power hookup.

$1m in Avalons at 400W ea == ~ 300kW.

$1m in BFL Singles at 60W ea == ~ 46kW.

Add in cooling and you can maybe double that.

So yeah, in all cases, more than most homes are wired for.

Exactly the point of my post,I think he meant an industrial center type setting 

If he is seriously anticipating being able to serve upwards of $1Mil USD worth of ASIC customers, back of the envelope calculations put that @ 750A, something absolutely no storage facility would ever come close to providing (typically they are wired for enough power for some lightbulbs and cameras). Even starting small with 1/10th of that I don't believe would be possible at most conventional storage facilities.

Hold on,he said something about a rollup door :

"Facility is cardkey access, armored locks.  My space does have a roll up door and I need to check that it is heavy duty.   Security with monitoring 24 x 7.  I understand there will be a million bucks worth of other people's hardware in there and that their uninterrupted revenue generation is my top priority - including optimizing performance."

Is this in a Storage unit facility 

Cardkey access


Security camera's

To do it right, you ought to have:
 * Redundant internet connections to 2 or 3 different providers, ideally each using a different technology (cable, DSL, and fiber for instance).  These should be business-class managed connections with SLAs.  The kind where they call you when it goes down, usually within a minute.
 * Redundant cooling.  2 separate air conditioning systems, each one able to manage the full cooling load on its own, even on a hot day.  Plan for room to grow.
 * Redundant power feeds.  Connections to 2 different power providers.
 * Redundant standby generators, each one able to manage the full load of the equipment *and the cooling* and everything else on its own.  I would use 2 diverse fuel types, probably one Diesel and one propane/nat gas.  The gensets should be periodically tested, and of course maintained.  Plan for room to grow.
 * A UPS to condition the power, and keep everything from rebooting when grid power fails and the genset is still starting up.  It's OK if the air conditioning is not UPS-backed.

You'll need a lot of other things too, but those are some big ones.

You'll need a lot of interior wiring and load centers and such for power distribution.  If I were you I'd try and use 240V circuits to power everything whose power supply can accept it, for efficiency's sake.  Having the ability to remotely and/or programmatically power-cycle the circuits/outlets would be nice to have too.

You yourself should be redundant.  You should have a trusted partner who has full access and can do everything you can, in case something needs to be done and you're unavailable.

Sounds like you know what you are talking about - please elaborate, I'd love to validate my numbers.

In Europe power is expensive for private/small customers. Large customers get prices that are between 4-8 cent / kWh. Another point is, having my mining hardware under third party control is like a deposit of my bitcoins at a bitcoin bank.

I already own a 12000 sqft warehouse with 60 Tons of cooling and it would still take me 100K to pull something like this off.  I don't see how you can possibly make your money back.

I don't plan to be in an already existing data center or colo facility.  My wholesale power rates should be in the 2.5c range.  I will re-purpose an existing facility and have already been in talks with the building owner to insure that I can achieve my target service capacity and cooling requirement (local power transformer needs to support the ampacity increase I need).  The space is ready to build out to my specs - it will be a newly built room, anti-static tile floor, etc.

Facility is cardkey access, armored locks.  My space does have a roll up door and I need to check that it is heavy duty.   Security with monitoring 24 x 7.  I understand there will be a million bucks worth of other people's hardware in there and that their uninterrupted revenue generation is my top priority - including optimizing performance.

This isn't going to be some ghetto setup - rates reflect the necessary markup I expect is needed to handle operating costs.  I'm already working to get investment for a build suitable to take on a large number of ASIC devices.  Initial offering for FPGA's is just to get my feet wet.

I'm surprised nobody has noticed that I'm not suggesting a setup fee or PSU fees.  That's an excellent value considering you won't have to buy them for your new gear.

He mentioned extending hardware life as one of the selling points so my guess is that he's intending to provide an optimum environment in terms of cooling, being dust-free, etc.  What that will end up costing is an interesting question.  Physical security is another interesting question.  I presume it would be at a significantly lower level than that used by financial services data centres, but obviously vandalism would cause a significant aggregate loss of revenue to miners even if each individual miner didn't lose much.

You are going to need to pump A/C up from the floor.  You are going to use as much power for the A/C as you do for the machines.  No one is going to send you their FPGA's and ASIC's to you if they are just going to throttle all day in a hot warehouse.

Curious what you plan on using for the facility. Are you going to negotiate for seriously discounted colo rates or repurpose a non-datacenter structure and kit it out to host from?

There's a ton of stuff needed to house, cool, secure, and manage racks of gear and it isn't cheap. I understand that you are just putting out a feeler for demand but I wonder if you have a plan yet or will formulate that plan if demand is high enough.

Thats what I thought as well....

Data centers pay the wholesale rate at around 4.5 to 2.5 cents per KW/h.

I'm willing to work this out with the customer.  The owner/operator of the rig is going to know best about what kinds of problems can occur.  Fan replacement/heatsink re-mounting seems like a possible common activity.  This kind of thing can be identified as an extra charge.

Since I haven't locked down my costs, I'm putting up an estimate for the service.  Hopefully I'm setting expectations higher than what my prices will be in reality.  The website allows you to indicate your interest in order to give me a better idea of what will work for you guys and that the business will be viable at startup.  My insurance costs are not determined yet, but I want to insure for:
 * Power failure
 * Internet connectivity failure
 * Theft
 * Fire
 * Flood
 * Earthquake
 * Lightning strike
 * Lost revenue due to above.

I checked into Prolexic (same DDOS mitigation as MtGox).  Its quite expensive.  Its been suggested that I don't need anti-DDOS, but I need to validate that idea.  I'll have redundant internet feeds to be sure.

Of course I will get a legal document drafted that constitutes a contract for QoS and hardware ownership for all customers.

My intention is to run this like a high quality colo - sooner or later the business will be legitimate enough for customers to just trust that its not just some individual with bad intentions.

I've got a big bottle of Halon I need to get rid of...

I'm also curious about how hardware failure is going to be handled - because sure as shit sooner or later someone's hardware is going to have a problem.  Is it going to be shipped back to the owner at that point?  Is Dave going to try to fix it?  Individual owners are going to have different configurations and I'm curious about the trouble-shooting process when they don't have physical access to their machines.

I can't see it being financially worthwhile to install inert gas or misting systems to minimise loss in the event of fire, so I'm guessing that you're depending on insurance to compensate for loss.  Presumably that insurance would cover replacement cost of the hardware only.

How are the service and its facilities protected against:

 * Overheating (cooling system failure)
 * Power failure
 * Power surges or other electrical mishaps
 * Internet connectivity failure
 * DDoS
 * Physical theft of hardware
 * Penetration and theft of BTC by h4x0rz
 * Fire
 * Earthquake
 * Lightning strike
 * Flooding

CA, at > 10% of the US population, has residential prices that meet or exceed europe as well. It's all well and good that some have reasonable power rates, but not all do. With that said however...


-From MegaBigPower.com

Is it that your costs are ~3¢/kWh (diff than kW/h I remind), and the difference will make up the cost of hosting for the consumer? Or is this just a difference between expectations that aren't reflected in an update?

I for one would happily drop the requirements of maintenance, noise, heat, and effort to avoid CA power costs, however:

1) Require specifics on costs to business owner, to know where the pass-throughs are to consumer.
2) Require specifics on costs to consumer (levied by business)
3) Some form of legally binding document needs at least drafting, to ensure harsh penalties on those who might ponder absconding with expensive machinery.

Those I feel are the bare necessities for anyone who wishes to offer housing of equipment for mining. Some might feel that is too onerous and busiens should be run more on a smile and a handshake, but I can't imagine leaving tens of thousands of dollars with a perfect stranger thousands of miles away from me under those conditions, and if it were cash I can't imagine anyone on these forums considering it for even a second.

My service may not appeal to many miners located in the US, but having the miners managed at the same baseline power price could make some sense.  In Europe, its a different story.

Besides, I'm looking for rigs that don't really fit in your average home/apartment scenario.

Mods: I thought this thread would have more relevance here, but feel free to move it to the services category if you feel that's better placed.

I pay between 8.3 - 9.6 cents per kWh in my home, sounds like you need to find a cheaper location for your data center

9.6-14.4c per kW/H? That's right in the range that most of us are paying for residential electricity.

I'd also be interested in this. Can you give more details about what your hosting service would look like? Speaking of services, wouldn't this thread be better off in HERE?

Do your prices factor in insurance?

Edit.  I missed that you mentioned insurance.  Can you be more specific about the extent of insurance coverage?

I am extremely interested.

Will email you my current setup.

I'm measuring market interest in my hosted computing service.  By building a data center where power is the cheapest in the nation, I can house your hardware and run it for cheaper.  This translates to bottom line profits for you and can extend the viability of your current hardware for as long as possible.

I intend to provide 24x7 secured, insured managed hosting for a lower monthly cost than your base power costs.  Depending on the size of your rig, prices will target a baseline power cost to you of between 9.6c kW/H and 14.4c kW/H.  These are estimates - I haven't nailed down all my costs yet.

I'm gathering customer interest here - this is not a presale.  I am looking to take on a few larger "anchor" customers with FPGA rigs in the next two weeks, along with getting a sense of how many ASIC miners (any manufacturer is ok) would want to take advantage of this service in the future.

Just go to my site and sign up, which will give me an idea of how many people are interested.  It will also put you on my mailing list and send you an initial informational email.  I will not spam you or sell your emails, etc.

If you have an immediate interest for FPGA hosting, you can reply to the email with your rig size, power usage and other details.  I'll get back with you immediately to work on the actual monthly price. 

Thanks for your consideration,
buzzdave
megabigpower.com