Topic: [Megathread] Bitcoin: What is missing for everyone to use btc on a daily basis? (Read 239 times)

with the assumed numbers posted in this topic of 16,000 businesses and 100m users

we recently seen an event caused by just one business creating alot of congestion. which shows bitcoin* needs to SCALE BITCOIN*

bitcoin is only currently averaging 1.9k tx a block
=273,600 payments a day
meaning a daily use for only ~275k people/businesses

certain people of subnetwork idolisms have been seen shouting "just wait a week it will calm down". or "just pay more fee" to prolong the congestion by getting ahead of the congestion.
however thats not solving anything. its just delaying daily utility and costing people more then a US coffee or an african weeks wage

this has due to not scaling bitcoin* for years, lead to an over promise of utility of custodial services(exchanges) and altnet middlemen multisig networks being used as the 'solution'
but both of these come with many flaws, and risks
and the obvious,(those altnets and services are not bitcoin. but bitcoin emulators, brand stealers, catfish, when people play with their value on these risky services/subnetworks)

we see their attempts to break bitcoin, saying:
its unfit/cant scale due to[insert lame excuse such as]:
 -1990's floppy disk limitations(facepalm)
 -1990's dial-up speed limitations(facepalm)
its not demanded, due to:
 - only one person discussing it(facepalm)
 - no one wants it (facepalm)

and then trying to get their favoured sponsored devs to only develop code that makes it harder to use bitcoin and easy to offramp to some subnetwork/custodian

these custodian, middle men subnetworks are the crutch where those offering the crutch are saying bitcoin is the broken leg, where infact the ones offering the crutch are the same people trying to break bitcoins leg, so that it cant run, while saying that bitcoin cant and should not run.

those that adore and support middlemen subnetworks/custodian services pretend there is no one apart from one person that wants bitcoin* to expand in its utility
yet this topic of lots of individuals wanting BITCOIN* to scale to get more adoption (ignoring the couple of people yet again maliciously promoting a subnetwork)

* emphasis on the bitcoin network part, not some other promoted service/subnetwork emulating/catfishing bitcoin brand.

I wouldn't say so. They do have choices. They just don't care, or don't want to. Users even of this forum sometimes prefer paying with fiat currency over bitcoin, and that's totally acceptable, but let alone ordinary people.

Don't be fanatic. Bitcoin isn't backed by violence neither by coercion, remember.

Though I understand what you're saying, bitcoiners should try to find a way to destroy fiat money.

There is no need to try and make justifications as to why cash is bad, or why it should be replaced by BTC, which it won't. BTC is more of a second option to fiat currencies, so it won't replace fiat, BTC users don't even predict a replacement of fiat by BTC.

Instead of trying to justify why fiat is bad, i would try to focus on the justification for which BTC is great as a currency, many BTC users use fiat because they don't have any choice, so their second currency is comfortably BTC, which gives them a choice to control things themselves, no third party, no censorship or possibility of confiscation, just the owner of the funds controlling the usage. People who use centralized exchanges are using BTC like fiat and the banks, BTC ought to be used through self custody, with trading through a decentralized exchange.

It is very difficult to move millions of dollars with cash, which is the only justification I would accept for why it is bad.

It can even be 100K websites but as you asked why we are not using BTC as regular currency like our bills the reason I mentioned is clear we are lacking the physical stores from accepting BTC.

Even now you can almost spent BTC on any website by converting it into gift cards and use the gift card to buy on any website but its more complicated when someone who is using fiat so they won't be convinced to use BTC instead of Fiat.

Actually, it's more of an uncomfortable situation rather than a "math" one. Some of you often don't carry cents, and you'll have to deal with the change after one of you has paid the merchant. Also, it's often difficult for small businesses to have lots of liquidity of banknotes and coins. You're not going to give a $50 banknote for a <$2 transaction, because it's just considered annoying from the merchant's part.

Well, if both you and the merchant use a centralized exchange, then yeah. But, if not, you're making it less trivial. Also, lightning network provides sufficient privacy for micro-transactions.

If you want to believe everything you read on the internet, that's your problem - it's more than inflated figures obtained from various researches paid for by companies dealing in cryptocurrency trading. The same source you cite also says that 106 million people own Bitcoin (data for 2021). If we turn it into numbers, then it means that of the 106 million owners of BTC, about 80% live in the US?

Start thinking with your own head and don't believe in various fairy tales - knowing about something and understanding something are two completely different things, not to mention owning it.

I comprehend what you're saying. Nevertheless, the following are my top two justifications for choosing cash over, say, bitcoin.
1. quickly 5 second math change. Most people these days don't even practice change math.
2. extremely difficult to track. Due to centralized exchanges, Bitcoin suffers from poor untraceability for the majority of users.

I think the price of privacy coins will soar once cash is taken out of circulation because of this.

That's the bet. Cryptocurrencies aren't going to be globally adopted until fiat currency is felt seriously and unreasonably debased. One scenario is that cash is repelled, and central banks introduce CBDC (which isn't as debased as cash, to attract). In fact, the central bank of EU has said this will happen in 2025, if I'm not mistaken.

Cash isn't superior to bitcoin, IMO. It usually annoys me to do the math for change when I'm out with friends. It's also easier to lose, and you don't have the history of your transactions (which is sometimes necessary).

For the time being, I believe cash to be superior to Bitcoin. But if they manage to get rid of the money, cryptocurrency—especially privacy coins—will take its place as the new money.

You might be surprised, but: the need. I can't convince someone to use bitcoin if they don't care about censorship resistance, nearly instant, cheap transaction settlement and privacy if they don't care about any of those. Tell them about censorship resistance and they'll respond with "I'm not going to do anything suspicious / bad for PayPal to suspend my account". Tell them about instant transactions and they'll respond with "PayPal is fine". Tell them about the fees, and they'll respond with "Revolut charges me zero" (without minding the merchant). Tell them about privacy and... Lol. 

Now add the shitload amount of misinformation there is, the little demand, and the fluctuation in price.

The thread is still fresh, so I wonder how the poll will turn out later. I chose price stability and scalability and speed. Anonymity is not a big concern for many people, and Bitcoin is giving a certain degree of anonymity as well. Physical coins might be important in case of countries with low cashless rate, but in others where people are very used to card payments it's alright. As for marketplaces, there are generally enough of those, and we wouldn't need marketplaces too much if people could pay with Bitcoin directly anyway. Going green is something that matters largely for Bitcoin as an investment but not as a currency. If it's used as money, then we should remember that people are fine with inflation of fiat, so money doesn't have to appreciate in value.

https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/how-many-businesses-accept-bitcoin/

Around 15,174 businesses worldwide accept Bitcoin. Aronud 2,300 of those businesses are located in the U.S.
As of April 2022, there are 36,659 Bitcoin ATMs available in the U.S.

Out of interest what statistics are your using to get that information and what criteria do you need to meet to be included? Is it simply websites that include 'bitcoin accepted here' on their website? Seems a lot and I bet a lot of them are scams and not legitimate businesses.

BTC is no longer a "new currency," in my opinion.

Its a new currency it will eventually start being considered as legal tender in a lot of countries it makes sense for the governments to capitalize on it by taxing it and profiting from its use. Legal tender allows them to officially recognize it and tax it even further. It means that we will be getting taxed more on cryptocurrencies but I think that is the price we need to pay for it to become closer to mainstream currency.

In the US, there are 30K websites that accept bitcoins. According to me, there is a gap in the protocol. What exactly, I'm not sure. awaiting your excellent responses.

I think the appropriate title will be what is stopping BTC to use on daily basis based on the context you are proposed in you replies of this thread.

What stop me from using bitcoin is I can't find stores which accepts bitcoin rather than USD. i would love to see signs in the shop like BTC accepted here, government didn't made bitcoin as legal tender so its also not easy for the shops to accept it as which literally means government is stopping us from using BTC on a daily needs.

Which makes sense when you consider what the government stands for but it they have not banned it and only regulated it then that is not restricting your freedom. Governments were made to represent the people of that country they were elected to look after the population. Taxing Bitcoins is expected and probably within Satoshis vision. Bitcoin was not made to completely replace everything and evade tax. It was made for a alternative that is more free then fiat and that is still true.

If the governments banned self custody then that would be a problem but they have never done that. A lot of governments only tax btc when it is converted to fiat and that is them taxing their currency and not btc directly.

A strong government could make buying bitcoin very challenging. Binance, Coinbase, etc. bank accounts could get blocked. By blocking bank accounts, the majority of people can no longer buy or sell bitcoin. Because of this, complete privacy is a requirement for cryptocurrency (sound money).

Whatever the goals of the government regarding bitcoin, they are only able to regulate users, the rest is not. I am an Asian (Indonesian) citizen, and it is true that my government is quite friendly to crypto, especially bitcoin and has never banned trading. Governments have rules about legal currencies, so bitcoin is not one of them, so to this day bitcoin and altcoin are only legalized as trading and investment assets. We have to pay taxes, the government regulates it through our transactions on local exchanges.

Because some of them don't seem to like the idea of ​​bitcoin decentralization. People want freedom, but the government doesn't want it.

Almost every government allows trading of btc but they do not allow it as legal tender which is different. You can still use Bitcoin and convert to fiat in most countries. I think it is only asian countries which have banned or heavily regulate its use and even then they usually start allowing btc again once they have figured out how to tax it. Governments would lose out if they did not regulate it and just banned it so instead they tax it and benefit from people using it. Why do people assume all governments are hostile towards btc? Most are friendly and benefit from the tax generation.

You need to consider the legality. It's difficult to draw proper conclusions on questions like these because if bitcoins weren't legal tender then most people would shut up while using them.

There's absolutely nothing to stop people from using bitcoin as a means of payment even if your country doesn't legalize it. Even transaction can be carried out in private between sellers and buyers, especially when both agree on the payment instrument.

How bitcoin is missing the characters that are mentioned in the voting list? I really don’t understand what op is saying because bitcoin is already providing those characters. Bitcoin is simply doing great things for us and it’s adoption is really remarkable. For your information, bitcoin has picked up everything within 6-7 years of its launch and percolated throughout the world.

I don’t think there is anything else needed from bitcoin. If you are asking what is interfering bitcoin as global power then it’s government and their shit rules. But rare chance they will get ridden off.

First of all, why do you call this thread, a mega thread? There is nothing special in this thread and this topic has been discussed many times before too.

Anyways, you can give unlimited arguments is favor of bitcoin, the only reason why people can't use it in daily transactions is that the government won't accept bitcoin and they never allow it. People are afraid of legal action taken against them if they started to use bitcoin for transactions.

BITCOIN is not missing any thing instead we need the dollar to hit big problems and force people to look for alternatives. That is the difficult part because the collapse of the dollar will take some time. We probably need multiple recessions until most people start looking for alternatives and we probably will benefit from recessions every couple of years. The collapse of banks and the general feeling that people are losing out by using fiat. Bitcoin is ready and has been ready for years we just need that driving force to convince people to learn btc. I think the documentation and the features we have are ready for mainstream adoption.

I think you got the numbers wrong. In the US, everyone is aware of bitcoin.

According to this https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/how-many-bitcoin-users/

89% of Americans heard about bitcoin
22% of Americans own bitcoin already

You're actually asking two questions (as some have noticed), but the specific answer to this question is pretty simple for me - people don't understand Bitcoin, and if you don't believe me try doing the following - survey 100 random people on the street and ask them a simple question "What is Bitcoin?" 90% of people will not give you any meaningful answer, 5% will know something basic, 4% will say that it is an investment, and 1% will say that it is a decentralized cryptocurrency.


Your question from the Poll has an even simpler answer, which is exactly what Bitcoin has as its basis - decentralization. Do you or anyone else really ask such questions without realizing that the whole world functions on total centralization that has been built up over centuries - and most people can't see beyond their nose and don't care about alternatives, even less about being their own bank.

Voted BTC is perfect. Yes, it's the society and people who are flawed, Bitcoin as a technology is perfect. 

I didn't say there weren't many locations where you could use bitcoin; rather, I said people don't want to use it for such payments. Simply put: How many of your neighbors use FIAT currency on a daily basis compared to how many of your neighbors use bitcoin for daily purchases.


Your point about price stability is well taken. I imagine that Stable Coins are now so widely used primarily because of this.

Bitcoin needs more acceptance and adoption from the world in order to be used on a daily basis, it needs to be widely known and used as a form of payment in marchants service providers and other activities . This requires education about the benefits and advantages of using Bitcoin and the development of infrastructure to support its use.
Beside providing interfaces and tools such as wallets and exchanges that make it simple for people to buy, sell, and use Bitcoin on daily basis and every transaction

Stability for sure. Not all people would want to risk money on any form of investment and it happened that this industry is just one. The market price is too volatile for 'normal' people to handle especially those who are anxious or worried of things. While to investors of this technology, many hesitates to use Bitcoin and ither cryptocurrencies as a mode of payment for daily transactions simply because they don't want to lose money; spending during kow market prices could vreate permanent loss which pushes then to just hold it for possible market recovery. Same thing goes during bullish market trend wherein investors are also having hesitations to use it as payment or not because of the tendency to earn bigger profit if the market prices would continue increasing.

The truth is the number of people keeping btc as a speculative asset are more than those using it for day to day transactions. To me, I feel what is really missing is awareness and understanding of the entire network. Of you take El Salvador as an example, despite the government has legalized btc as a legal tender, majority of the citizens aren't warming up to the idea of using it, why is that? Probably because they still lack the knowledge to fully utilise btc. So I think awareness is really lacking.

Don't know where you are getting this information but it's wrong.
There are tons of places that people are using BTC every day.

Gambling sites.
Giftcard sites.
All the debit cards that convert BTC / crypto  to whatever you need.
And so on.

P2P transfers are also big.

Thanks to places like Bitrefill I don't think I have spent any fiat in a lot of locations for a long time now.


-Dave

 According to the studies I've read, everyone is using bitcoin as a speculative asset or as a hedge against inflation. I'd say 98 out of 100 users used it exclusively for these two uses. Basically, no one is using bitcoin to buy things. I believe Satoshi Nakamoto intended to create not a speculative asset, but rather a new financial system that people can use on a daily basis doing peer to peer transactions.

OP i think you're mixing things up here, what your topic said was the thing(s) bitcoin is missing out to become bthe world global currency, and if am to supply yiu an answer I will say "It's nothing" because bitcoin is already a global acceptable digital currency and not a testnet or a prelaunch coin like other altscoins looking for a boost, bitcoin had surpassed all those stages since past years, it's no more in a ideological or developmental stage anymore, it has advanced throughout the world and acceptable for making payments, this makes it has no issues with becoming a global currency, it's already a standard world wide currency except for those not interested in its adoption.

Simple questions: Bitcoin: What is missing for everyone to use btc on a daily basis?
Vote only three options, please.
Explain your answer.

Here are my top three choices:

1. Complete anonymity - necessary for sound money which demands anonymity.
2. Scaling - low-cost and fast transactions.
3. P2P marketplace - to enable most users to enter and exit the Bitcoin system without requiring a centralized exchange or having it beforehand.

Price stability will eventually occur  once it is used by more and more individuals and organizations