Topic: Mempool and Spam Transactions LOL (Read 279 times)

Haha, it's kind of funnier as I cant see how everyone is reacting, I tried to view the meme and what it's conveying, and what it shows is just an error that the image contains some error due to which it cant be displayed. So without putting any more effort, I thought why not post on the ordinals as always they suck and I just hate from the bottom of my heart this  inscriptions and ordinals hype wave.

exchange hotwallets have large number of outputs because they can batch many withdrawals.. they can afford to be penalised as they already make profit on everyones withdrawal fee*.. and a sidenote, i do consider them spam. just not nefarious spam

if a usual lean 1 in 2out is 226bytes lets say at 50sat/byte = 11,600 for a one user withdrawal+change return =11600 a withdrawal
if a batched 1in 100out is 3592bytes lets say at 50sat/byte = 179,600 for 101 outputs(100withdrawals+1change) = 1796 a withdrawal
they could be penalised at 6x base priority fee and not feel the pain

*if you look on most exchanges internal user display. most are charging more then 11,600 per withdrawal even if the network rate shows it costs less per withdrawal(1796) when CEX batch 100withdrawals together.. so CEX can be penalised as spam and still operate..

heck they can just do 200 withdrawals (201 out) =6992bytes*50sat=349,600/200=1,748sats per withdrawal
these 1796 or 1748 withdrawal network cost is still cheaper then 1 user doing 1 withdrawal(1in 2out lean) at 7-8sat/byte

so like i said if the rest of the network of 1in 2out lean tx are being charged at 50sat/byte.. a CEX spamming every block can be penalised for batching and still not get harmed at a higher rate than lean tx pays

---

.. the great think about digital money is that its code.. and code can be programmed to do wonderful things


P.S i would not mind CEX offering withdrawals to users at 1796sat by batching discount.. IF thats what they charged users at the internal CEX user balance withdrawal request charge..
but they make profit from users by charging more then network fee pretending users have to pay more. so.. yea they should be penalised along with other spammers. we should not be incentivising spammers/centralised services.. while then causing actual independant bitcoin holders to pay the most for just paying 1 recipient occassionally

Yesterday, mempool dropped to 25+ to 30+ sat/vbyte and total pending transaction size in mempools decreased a half from 120 vMB to 60 vMB but Ordinals caused expensive transaction fee again.

https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC%20(default%20mempool),2d,weight

Can not predict when Ordinals bring more transactions to mempools but I consider Ordinals $ORDI is a leader of BRC20 tokens so if it has good price increase like today, about 10%, it looks to be a signal of Ordinals BRC20 spam in mempools will follow it.

The Categories on Coinmarketcap, Coingecko can be used too.
https://coinmarketcap.com/cryptocurrency-category/
https://www.coingecko.com/en/categories

BRC20 and Inscriptions Categories have good increases last 24 hours.

Wanted to get a transaction going, I was going to use 31 sats/vbyte which has been quick for the past few days and I look and the recommended fee is like 250 sat/byte. I go to mempool explorer and I see that the fees are at least 200 sat/vbyte. And this is on a Saturday. Makes no sense. I was going to do a transaction on the weekend thinking it would be lower than 31 sats/vbyte but I guess I was wrong.

Very difficult to gauge when these Ordinals are going to be spamming the mempool. I remember it was the same during the holidays, you assumed that on New Years day it would be clear because people are taking a day off, but no there was another day of 200 sat/vbyte of transactions. Whats strange is that during the ETF launch it was actually affordable, the mempool wasn't expensive but no idea why now all of a sudden it is.

That's not always true. For example services like exchanges do exactly what you explained, spend coins with low number of confirmation. That can not be considered a spam.

On the other hand, anybody storing arbitrary data in any form except the expected/standard method (ie. OP_RETURN) is performing an attack against Bitcoin whether it is called Ordinals or something else with a different methodology.

Not really that still an assurance considering that fee could shoot up per sat/byte in next minute specially if pending transactions could really be having that build up. Just like on what
i have done in last few weeks on which i did set +20 sat per byte on a 100 sat/byte high priority but ending up on pending because it did shoot up into almost 200 sat/byte
a few minutes on which it would really be able to scratch your head off with those sudden spikes and considering on how many bucks that you would really be needing to
pay then it would really be that a pain in the ass on doing such thing.

Unless if you are transacting huge amounts then you cant really be able to feel off with those fees but if you are someone who do make out those micro transactions
then you would really be able to feel those huge fees that would really be hurting you whenever you do make a transaction.
Now fee is really that going back to normal but still that high. Im missing those 1say/byte fee.

fees are not estimated by what is the lowest-highest fee in a block..
its done by the mempool of how delayed unconfirmed transactions just sit in the mempool at certain fee levels

these ordinal supporters could bypass the mempool node routing and instead pushtx direct to pools and fill blocks with 10sat/byte. but leave a large amount of unconfirmed transactions getting relayed above 40sat/byte not confirming in next block thus causing fees to appear as needing more than 50sat/byte to get priority... even though reality would be you need to pushtx direct to pool to get advantage

..
thats said core over years have been bumping min relay fee and increments and premiumising older tx formats to make even the most leanest
1legacy in 2 out legacy not able to do 1sat/byte even if segwit done 1satperbyte
because legacy is treated as 904 weight units where as segwit is treated as 564 weight units
because legacy is treated as 226 virtual bytes where as segwit is treated as 141 virtual bytes
and core 4x the "serialised" fee for legacy but doesnt 4x segwit

1legacy in 2legacy out
Transaction size in raw bytes: 226
Transaction size in virtual bytes: 226
Transaction size in weight units: 904

1 segwit in 2segwit out
Transaction size in raw bytes: 223.5
Transaction size in virtual bytes: 141
Transaction size in weight units: 564

core also approved the bump fee default in increments of 5sat/byte instead of 1 for what they call convenience as they dont see a future of users wanting to increment on small amounts and dont see a future of 1sat/byte fees

Here we go again....

A 10 minutes ago a few blocks were mined and right away, some automated ordinal system created 2000+ ordinal transactions on the next Mempool Block 1.

3 minutes after block 825027 was found. Mempool Block 1
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/09/s1ubT.png

5 minutes after block 825027 was found. Mempool Block 1
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/09/s1AHl.png

10 minutes after block 825027 was found. Mempool Block 1
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/09/s1CtJ.png

5 minutes after block 825027 was found on Mempool Block 2
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/09/s1Hs1.png

10 minutes after block 825027 was found on Mempool Block 2
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/09/s1naW.png

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/09/s1S9m.png

I seriously can't make this stuff up, this ordinal automate system doing it job well.

People can do anything to make money and survive. Because of what ordinals does to Bitcoin and making the network congested and making the transaction fee very high I don't want to see and heard anything concerning ordinals they are not ever for the good for Bitcoin investors. Thank God it is fake traffic and not real. Though they represent the real outcome of what happened.

In any good thing, bad people must come to spoil it and those are the ordinals.

One of the best Ordinal Dashboards I'm using to view Inscription traffic, for those that are interested in the matter.

https://dune.com/cryptokoryo/brc20

Wouldn’t that just make it worst? Whatever automation system that are creating these spam ordinals can then just create an "inscription wall" at 50sat/vb and if no mining pools confirms them, that means all future hash rate fee will always be more than 50sat/vb.

I know the bitcoin nodes are decentralized and we can all create our own, but we are so far behind in game, we would have a better chance getting hit by lightning, after riding a train that just got derailed, while boarding after surviving a plane crash. Basically .00000001 chance of mining a block.

For all we know this ordinal automation system, could be using a pay it forward mechanism, which whatever ordinal transaction was mined from the previous mempool block, it must create the same ordinal transaction on the next mempool block 1. In this case, no one loses any $, as it’s a pay it forward system only when it drops to a certain rate fee. Then when the network gets congested again, every mining pools wins and go through this never ending cycle each time it gets to a certain rate fee threshold. We are screwed basically. At least clear out mempool first, because there are millions USD unconfirmed right now. At least balance the inputs/outputs, before regulating what the rate fee will be moving forward.

Literally the past 5 days, after a new block is mined under 50sats/vb… 1500-2500 new ordinals transactions are being created automatically with the previous rate fee of the block that was just mined. Whatever system that are creating all of these ordinals, needs to be stopped.

read my post again then read yours
understand the difference between miners(asics) vs pool managers(transaction selectors and block template creators)

if you replaced the word miners with pool managers. your opinions make more sense
however even the pool managers COULD edit their node /algo of transaction selection. BUT most just use the defaults.. defaults made by core which core have changed over the years to favour a certain path, so it all leads back to core and their defaults and their policies
cores policies and code that the majority of the network use which make it a nuisance to change bitcoin code and get majority of node agreement without cores majority also being in sync

Lobbying exists in the USA. Corporations fund politicians to push policies that are in line with corporation interests.

Can you confidently say that no incentives have flown within the powerful or influential hands of the decentralized Bitcoin network, in order to generate significantly more income of large-scale mining interests and anyone else who would be benefiting from ordinals?

I have previously been called a conspiracy theorist for blaming miners or mining related interests for the ordinals spam, since that opinion I've realized that I've overlooked the other interests potentially making a profit as well, however the difference between them and miners is that miners have the option to exclude ordinals for the betterment of the network if they wanted to do so.

One thing that I will agree with against my theory, is that core devs are to blame more than any other party as they have ultimately enabled this problem and so far have not aimed to fix it in a consensus manner. Are they lobbied, or ignorant? I have to believe, based on how this world works, that they are lobbied...and that pools are probably a part of that lobbying campaign, as well as any other profiteers involved in the ordinals scheme

usually normal people dont re-spend their money every 10minutes.. constantly each block for days
when funds are being spent with only low confirms repeatedly its obvious these payments are not normal people buying goods or services.. thus spam

ordinals is just bloated spam (double attack)

This is a meme and feels like an entire joke but it is the reality of things now. Or what could explain what we are facing these days in the Bitcoin network? Mempool has been a subject of controversies and the target of spammers due to the loopholes caused by the supposed developments by the developers. This has given the miners an undue advantage and they will not want it to change since they are gaining massively through it. But this is no gain for the rest, not even Bitcoin itself, so it needs to change as this needs to be forced out of their hands. It is so disheartening that miners are now behaving so selfish and will not vote for some changes that will affect them.

I am still watching the development because it will be so ugly if it continues to like this and miners monopolise everything in the name of Bitcoin structure and its decentralisation. Why not get the power away from them and bring sanity back to the network? Leaving it like this only means gains for them. The time is now and this is so annoying and shows the weakness of the Bitcoin network.

This is another difference between this attack and its predecessors. This time in the Ordinals Attack the spam transactions carry a clear sign of being a spam transaction whereas in previous spam attacks such as the last big one in 2017, it was very difficult to distinguish between a spam transaction and a regular transaction in a lot of cases (not all though).

Keep in mind one thing when looking at that explorer. Even if it shows many min transactions confirming at 30 sat/Vbyte it doesn’t mean yours will confirm even if you have the same fee. You gotta add 5-10 sats extra and it’ll confirm in a few hours.

I did a few 40 sat/vbyte transactions today and one confirmed very quick but the other took all day even with the exact same fee. There is no guarantee that it will fill soon.

That's a funny meme. And totally right, virtual spam is managed in some weird ways nowadays. I feel bad for the bitcoin network, it wasn't made for that purpose but ordinals are here to stay. So, we need to learn how to live with them.

Is not the first time that bitcoin have this kind of satured network, it happens in the past when price use to be crazy, but that means is not ordinals fault at all, which is the nature of the coin.

It won't appear because of your low rank. It's not about the link. The link is correct. It's just that newbies cannot yet post images. But somebody has already quoted your post. The image is already visible. You can scroll up and see it's already there.

As to the spam transactions, let them all come and waste their money on fees. Let's see if they will sustain such useless attack. As I have observed, transactions fees have already lowered down a lot.

I updated the first image link, thinking I figured out how to make them appear.

Updated IMG link here
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/09/sVGqj.png

trying to fix it. not sure why 2 of 3 images posted not all 3

Wouldn't that just cause the next block to always have the same rate fee, if the mining pool managers ignore inscriptions? Since those spam ordinals don't get confirmed, it will always remain in mempools next block with the same rate fee.

If you look in mempool, there is about 6,000 ordinals (filter by Inscriptions) between 30-35 sat/vb. Its like a buy wall of ordinals that keeps getting passed to the next block, because the mining pools are not accepting them to their block when found. This is tricking rate fees to always be 35sats or more, because of this wall of ordinals no one will confirm on the block sitting between 30-35sat/vb. If they don't get confirmed, rate fee will always be more than 35sat/vb. I don't think having pool managers removing them from their block is the solution. Its just passing the same issue, but downstream.

Sorry, I can't figure out how to post a image in a comment.

Wall of ordinals that keeps getting passed to the next block, when the current block is mined.

Block 824932
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/09/sVGqj.png

Block 824936
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/09/sVCtP.png

Block 824937
https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/09/sVQLq.png

I don't think the mempool can ever become bottomless. The default mempool size is 300MB, and all low-fee transactions that do not fit inside are periodically purged. Of course, anyone can arbitrarily change the default settings on their own node.

I updated my original post and replaced "miners" with "man". I didn't mean to stir the pot and create another overly exhausted debate regarding the network congestion.

This was purely comedy, as this meme was based off another funny meme. A meme within a meme. If you didn't find the meme funny, as I did. My apologies and feel free to tag it for removal.

Whatever the cause is... I'm sure the bitcoin community is already fully aware of it and hopefully the 250,000+ unconfirmed hashes in mempool will eventually get confirmed.

If there are more ordinals being confirmed than transactions at each block_height, I feel that the mempool will become bottomless.

block_height 824834
total ordinals in block 3386

block_height 824833
total ordinals in block 2702

block_height 824832
total ordinals in block 4417

block_height 824831
total ordinals in block 4570

block_height 824830
total ordinals in block 2318

block_height 824829
total ordinals in block 2901

wrong
spot market price rises to counter reward drops
its called deflation

miners were not poor when the market was $17k they are not poor when the market is $44k

then you should have changed it by now by editing OP because mining is not about making the fees increase. I am sure you know that miners mine new blocks so I am not sure why you think that miners are the one who cause the traffic in the mempool. In my opinion, you are already spreading misinformation about miners and you didn't even provide proof that miners are behind those spam transactions that makes the mempool very busy and traffic.

Maybe if you've got a funny bone in you then you're going to find it funny, I don't think OP meant any harm or slander towards the miners, it's just that in the past few months of popularity of ordinals they're the most that's benefited in all of this inscription craze because the inscription takes up space in the mempool and with spaces taken up, it makes it so that transactions are being delayed which increases the fee for us who just want to do a bitcoin transaction, I'm sure it's not a real thing that miners are desperately filling up the mempool by spamming ordinals to increase the fees but it's still not that far fetch to think that it can be a possibility right?

True, there's no proof on telling that those miners are behind with those spam transactions on which they are really that driving the fee price or value to the roof.
Just like on what others been saying that there's no proof and there's no solid evidence but pretty much sure that these minders are really that happy on whats happening
considering that they are earning more, but now as we can see that the network condition is slowly going back to normal and this is something that most
crypto people do really likes on which it is really that pain in the ass when we do speak about high transaction fees.

as rewards drop it is more important to have higher fees.




240 blocks made vs 270 if normal.

that crowds the memory pool a lot.

if it is due to miners underclocking huge mines. they lost 30 x 6.25 coins in reward.

but fees get jacked for the 240 blocks made.

as big a problem as ordinals are what I an talking about is worse.

at the ½ they would lose the 30 blocks jack the fees for the 240 blocks.

at a cost of 30 x 3.125 = 93.75 coins.

this is a problem that seems to be certain to happen.

and to avoid the difficulty change to fix this they will over clock later in the same 2 week difficulty period.

I agree that there is no solid proof that miners or pools are behind these ordinals but I do think that some pools/miners are spamming the mempool by dust transactions with higher transaction fees.  I had seen several $0.25 transactions getting listed on mempool site with higher than the usual transaction fee.  This makes me think that someone is trying to bump the competition for priority up with a small amount of transactions. 

The thing is that I think that it is some pool or miners bumping the tx fee because they are the one who gets the benefit when the price if tx fee increases but I don't say that they are the ones behind the oridinal spams.

Then why don't you change the wording in your post to avoid the impression that you are deliberately spreading misinformation and unconfirmed claims?

a few people know you just wanted to simply post a meme for humour.  ...but noticed you mistakenly mentioned implying miners are the instigators

its become too common that this congestion is blamed on miners and not the actual coders that allow/created the problem
its worth knowing that ASICS(miners) just hash a blockheader ID and have no influence of the transaction selection.
asics have no ram to store mempools of unconfirmed tx's nor hard drives to store all transactions, node software, code to validate transactions
its not miners job to transaction select

its pool managers that do transaction selection using code made by core that prioritise transaction by cores policy of fee estimates

so while core devs have pushed a narrative to blame miners and pretend miners need the extra income. miners dont need the income nor resort to extortion to get it. but they simply happily receive extra income via their pool for just existing on a pool. miners dont need the extra, but would be happy to receive extra

the real finger pointing should be the pools that accept the spam and the core devs that caused the exploit but dont fix the exploits that allow the spam/fee bumping

Well, when i saw your topic, i thought there would be something important in that picture but never thought it will be just a Meme  
Quoting it so others can see it directly   



The bitcoin network is getting back to normal and right now the mempool average fee is 45-50 Sat/byte and it is quite low. You can say that it is due to the weekend but i remember that in the last weekends we have over 100+ sat/vbyte fee or even more.

I didn't mean to imply Miners, I should of just said "Man, Him, They".
I didn't realize how popular inscriptions are... historically the past 3 months its been even 50/50 split between hashes and inscriptions. craziness how popular they are.

The theory that miners are making spam transactions to drive the fees up has floated around since 2016, and it never really worked, because if you are mining your own spam transactions, you are losing more money than what you gain from driving the fees up.

There's a simple explanation - there's a lot of people who are crypto rich - early Bitcoin and altcoin investors who have millions worth of coins, and those people can easily play with those NFTs even if they lose money, because they are just that rich.

bitcoin ordinals inscriptions analysis

@dgtl_assets/ Per Block Inscriptions

https://dune.com/queries/2145510/3518029

Wow, I didn't realize about 25-50% of each new block height are ordinals inscriptions, no wonder why the network has been busiest than ever lately.

I have no opinion in the matter. I just thought it was funny so I decided to share.

But whoever are creating these spam ordinals are on a mission... Every time a new block is mined, within seconds are roughly 500-1000 new ordinals created instantly with a rate fee higher than the previous.

Example of an wallet address that created 250-500 ordinals right after new block was mine for the past 3 blocks mined.

https://mempool.space/address/bc1pzm6grdvyuytv753ew7qv0gf79dytcduecq66szwjgnd8zq7pghkqn6lwad

It might be a coincidence, but this was purely a meme I thought was funny.

I don't know how you arrived at the conclusion that miners are behind ordinals. I don't actually believe that to be true only there are substantial evidence to support that. What I think is that miners just saw opportunities in it and are benefitting accordingly. They may not be behind it, it could just be the handwork of people that want to leverage on the popularity of Bitcoin to scam people of their money in.exchange for digital jpeg.

I came across this meme and its too funny not to share. Man creates spam ordinals to create fake traffic jams each time the rate fee drops quickly  

https://www.talkimg.com/images/2024/01/07/s3w4G.png