Mempool.Space accelerator service | Bitcointalksearch.org

Wind_FURY

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Quote from: stompix on May 20, 2023, 09:32:39 AM

Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 20, 2023, 06:02:00 AM

Can anyone explain how it technically works?

Simple!
Foundry USA which is the biggest mining pool right now, and the one that sponsored mempool.space with both money and hardware is now planning on offering the same thing as ViaBtc does but through mempool.space . As you can see the block that confirmed it was mined by Foundry , but it was a coincidence they mined one right then, probably they've done more instances of the videos till they got one right!

Btw, their new feature seems to not be counted by the explorer, it still shows the fee span as 86 - 401 sat/vB despite it being 1 - 401 in reality.

OK, it's merely having a "secret deal" with some group miners/pools, and paying a secret fee to get the transaction into the next block. I thought there was some open-protocol built by some bright developers to make it possible.

It's actually giving some miners an unfair advantage over those miners who aren't included in the "secret deal". I'm locking the topic.

DaveF

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Quote from: stompix on May 21, 2023, 09:31:55 AM

.....Foundry is closed circuit, not a public one so I'm pretty sure they agreed on this take because the money would anyhow get split between a dozen individuals at most.

For the normal users wanting to "accelerate" a tx it's still garbage, you still pay 3x-5x more than you could have paid to get you tx confirmed normally, so almost worthless unless you have somebody sending you $100 000 with 1sat/b.

Probably more then a dozen people but your point is still valid.

But, as of now you really do not have that many choices for acceleration.
Adding another us good. Because if Foundry does it and ViaBTC is doing it possibly F2Pool will start, and undercut them a bit in price, then maybe Braiins decides to get in on it and drops their price a bit more and so on.

Competition is good, it forces people to innovate and keeps prices down.

The issue of $100000 at 1sat/b or any single larger TX comes back to being able to do a CPFP if you know what you are doing, and control the address, and you are the only receiver of the TX then you can always do it that way. (yes you can do it if more then 1 person is receiving funds but the CPFP is now subsidizing others)

-Dave

Charles-Tim

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Quote from: darkv0rt3x on May 21, 2023, 05:56:20 AM

It has to do with centralization exactly because of this part. If someone controls a pool, then this is a single individual doign whatever he wants. That is centralization. And it goes against the principle of Bitcoin!

So how did you want bitcoin mining to be? It has been the best as it is. You can become a mining pool if you want, but it requires huge amount of money and skilled knowledge.

Miners connect to mining pool to contribute their hashrate, and some mining pool still give the miners some offers like to be able to submit some transactions which the mining pool can accelerate for them.

Synchronice

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I can't call this service a mempool.space bitcoin accelerator service but a mempool.space profit accelerator service. In this video, user pays five times more than he had to pay to get his transaction quickly confirmed. I hope people upgrade their wallets and make Replace By Fee enabled transactions or Child Pays For Parent.
BTC.com had a similar transaction accelerator service, they had the similar money milking fees and finally abandoned this service because they didn't have customers, hope the same happens to mempool.space and they won't even be able to get the money back that it cost them to develop and promote this service.

I'm completely nonplussed in a very bad way.

stompix

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Quote from: mikeywith on May 20, 2023, 07:39:01 PM

Pools that offer this service are far from honest, like Viabtc does this, and don't share the rewards with the miners, it's technically stealing, as miners, you would take 85 sats /byte from us when you include your 1 sat transaction, and the fair approach would be to pay us extra 85 sats and keep the rest since that's a service you provide.

Finally I've been able to see that vid on a larger screen and catch the details, so this seems a lot worse than viabtc but with a twist.
Unlike viabtc there is no limit, no min fee or max size, so you could end theoretically with a block full of 1sat/b paid by a large exchange while other pools get 1-2 btc in fees, at least viabtc caps this at around 50kb of space it's just in the low single digits loss in fees.

Now, the twist Roll Eyes

Foundry is closed circuit, not a public one so I'm pretty sure they agreed on this take because the money would anyhow get split between a dozen individuals at most.

For the normal users wanting to "accelerate" a tx it's still garbage, you still pay 3x-5x more than you could have paid to get you tx confirmed normally, so almost worthless unless you have somebody sending you $100 000 with 1sat/b.

entebah

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Quote from: mikeywith on May 20, 2023, 07:39:01 PM

Quote from: stompix on May 20, 2023, 09:32:39 AM

Btw, their new feature seems to not be counted by the explorer, it still shows the fee span as 86 - 401 sat/vB despite it being 1 - 401 in reality.

I'd argue the reality is 86 - 401, while your 1 sat/Vbyte transaction can go through it won't happen unless you pay 86 sats/Vbyte or more, nobody gets away with 1 sat when others are paying 86 sats, even the pool itself, it has to drop an 86 sat transaction to include a 1 sat transaction of the same size, losing 85 sat for every Vbyte included, of course, if they would charge you a 100 sat it means they made 100+1-86 = 15 sat/Vbyte but the "real" cost of that transaction on the blockchain still is 86 sat and not 1 sat.

TL: DR, the transaction fee is still at least 86 sat/Vbyte, doesn't matter how it was paid or who earned it.

Pools that offer this service are far from honest, like Viabtc does this, and don't share the rewards with the miners, it's technically stealing, as miners, you would take 85 sats /byte from us when you include your 1 sat transaction, and the fair approach would be to pay us extra 85 sats and keep the rest since that's a service you provide.

if you watch the video from Twitter that he share you will see that you need to pay to get into the next block they mine

see at the picture above it seems the mempoolspace fee is around 50k satoshis which are very cheap if we compare it to other paid accelerators that are already available.
But i don't know if that fee will remain 50k satoshis or if it will increase depending on our transaction size.

darkv0rt3x

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 20, 2023, 06:10:40 AM

This has nothing to do with centralization.

Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 20, 2023, 06:10:40 AM

... I mean if I know someone that controls a mining pool...

It has to do with centralization exactly because of this part. If someone controls a pool, then this is a single individual doign whatever he wants. That is centralization. And it goes against the principle of Bitcoin!

mikeywith

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Quote from: stompix on May 20, 2023, 09:32:39 AM

Btw, their new feature seems to not be counted by the explorer, it still shows the fee span as 86 - 401 sat/vB despite it being 1 - 401 in reality.

I'd argue the reality is 86 - 401, while your 1 sat/Vbyte transaction can go through it won't happen unless you pay 86 sats/Vbyte or more, nobody gets away with 1 sat when others are paying 86 sats, even the pool itself, it has to drop an 86 sat transaction to include a 1 sat transaction of the same size, losing 85 sat for every Vbyte included, of course, if they would charge you a 100 sat it means they made 100+1-86 = 15 sat/Vbyte but the "real" cost of that transaction on the blockchain still is 86 sat and not 1 sat.

TL: DR, the transaction fee is still at least 86 sat/Vbyte, doesn't matter how it was paid or who earned it.

Pools that offer this service are far from honest, like Viabtc does this, and don't share the rewards with the miners, it's technically stealing, as miners, you would take 85 sats /byte from us when you include your 1 sat transaction, and the fair approach would be to pay us extra 85 sats and keep the rest since that's a service you provide.

BitMaxz

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Quote from: hosseinimr93 on May 20, 2023, 09:12:35 AM

Quote from: entebah on May 20, 2023, 08:22:32 AM

i try to follow the steps from that tweet but i can't even open the website from that thread

I also tried that, but couldn't open the webpage.
The tweet says "here's a demo of our upcoming Mempool Accelerator". Maybe, they haven't launched their service yet.

It's not available yet even the video guide I use the URL when accessing it just loads and can't access it.

I also tried other nodes or servers available from here https://mempool.space/lightning/group/the-mempool-open-source-project

But all of them do not have an accelerator button and some of them can't able to access.

stompix

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 20, 2023, 06:02:00 AM

Can anyone explain how it technically works?

Simple!
Foundry USA which is the biggest mining pool right now, and the one that sponsored mempool.space with both money and hardware is now planning on offering the same thing as ViaBtc does but through mempool.space . As you can see the block that confirmed it was mined by Foundry , but it was a coincidence they mined one right then, probably they've done more instances of the videos till they got one right!

Btw, their new feature seems to not be counted by the explorer, it still shows the fee span as 86 - 401 sat/vB despite it being 1 - 401 in reality.

hosseinimr93

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Quote from: entebah on May 20, 2023, 08:22:32 AM

i try to follow the steps from that tweet but i can't even open the website from that thread

I also tried that, but couldn't open the webpage.
The tweet says "here's a demo of our upcoming Mempool Accelerator". Maybe, they haven't launched their service yet.

DaveF

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Look at it this way in the past, I don't know if they still do, several pools would only transmit their payouts to miners at 1 sat / vb.
If another pool picked it up, fine. If not it was mined in that pools next block since they gave it priority for themselves.

ViaBTC / Coinex are another pair that could and may do this. Since they are so closely tied together. Withdraw from Coinex they send with a low fee, if it gets picked up and mined by another pool fine. If not, it goes out in Via's next block.

And so on.

Take everything else out of it, if I had a pool and enough hash I could with a bit of tweaking only mine tx that start at 1 sat /vb and go up from there instead of the way most pools do it now with the higher fees done 1st.

Would not make financial logic but it does work.

Also, cannot speak to how it works, but in the past it was the general consensus of users that when pools took BTC on the side to put low fee tx in to the blocks that money want to the pool operators NOT the miners. The miners got the block and the tx fees the side fees did not.

-Dave

entebah

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 20, 2023, 06:02:00 AM

There's video in the link that demos how a 1sat/vByte transaction was confirmed within three minutes even with the cost to include the transaction is supposed to be 88sat/vByte.

https://twitter.com/mempool/status/1659619347910803466

Can anyone explain how it technically works? I'm reading the posts in that link, and people are not happy. Why are they suggesting that it's something like "Good bye to decentralization"?

i try to follow the steps from that tweet but i can't even open the website from that thread and i think there are already services that provide a paid transaction accelerator.
maybe you can visit the Viabtc website because they have options for free and paid options.

nc50lc

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Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 20, 2023, 06:02:00 AM

Can anyone explain how it technically works?

If their mining pool or solo miner is using Bitcoin Core to get the block template,
they can use the RPC command: prioritisetransaction to set an extremely high dummy absolute transaction fee to that 1sat/vByte transaction.
More info about the command: https://bitcoincore.org/en/doc/24.0.0/rpc/mining/prioritisetransaction/

It's also possible that the pool can have their own implementation or transaction prioritization.

BitMaxz

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It seems you bit confuse about the current mempool fee suggestion as you can see on the video the accelerator is not free the cost of accerator according to video is $16.30 if you know Viabtc they do also have the paid accelerator it works just the same.

Like other said above mining operators can manually choose transaction like 1sat/vbyte to include on the current block they mine.

Zaguru12

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Quote from: Charles-Tim on May 20, 2023, 06:10:40 AM

This has nothing to do with centralization.

Mining pool can accept any valid transaction of their choice, no matter how low the fee is. I mean if I know someone that controls a mining pool, he can decide to include a transaction of 1 sat/vbyte for me if he wants to, even if the mempool fee is 100 sat/vbyte or higher.

Exactly since there is no standard rule that says the highest transaction fee must be picked. So this certainly a behind the scene transaction where a certain miner or mining pool is tipped off to include the transaction into their block.

Quote from: Wind_FURY on May 20, 2023, 06:02:00 AM

Can anyone explain how it technically works?

This thread might offer the best explanation to me https://twitter.com/1f52b_xyz/status/1659673323834408962?s=46&t=QdZ3_ryvESgybupE3D6xaQ

Charles-Tim

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This has nothing to do with centralization.

Mining pool can accept any valid transaction of their choice, no matter how low the fee is. I mean if I know someone that controls a mining pool, he can decide to include a transaction of 1 sat/vbyte for me if he wants to, even if the mempool fee is 100 sat/vbyte or higher.

Wind_FURY

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There's video in the link that demos how a 1sat/vByte transaction was confirmed within three minutes even with the cost to include the transaction is supposed to be 88sat/vByte.

https://twitter.com/mempool/status/1659619347910803466

Can anyone explain how it technically works? I'm reading the posts in that link, and people are not happy. Why are they suggesting that it's something like "Good bye to decentralization"?

Topic: Mempool.Space accelerator service (Read 313 times)