Topic: Merit is not a limit for success? (Read 718 times)

After months of searching, it is very easy to find noteworthy old members posts, several times a day, but not new ones, even though so many new members have arrived in the last months. I tend to be very flexible when it comes to post quality, but even then, I have come to realize that noteworthy new members are a bit like the Edelweiss flower: very difficult to find and probably only the result of someone's imagination.

I would rather have ICO campaigns (or non-bitcoin paying campaigns) banned than a full blanket ban on signatures since they're the ones pretty much causing the issue in the first place, but the issue is you can't really stop people from promoting them. You could say they're not allowed and ban them here but people will organise and run them off site. What do we do with all the users who continue to advertise for them? Warn then ban them? That's why we really would need some sort of signature bans or blacklists or the ultimate solution to remove signatures all together which is the only way you'll ultimately solve the matter once and for all. I think we'd also have to remove avatars and personal texts though too as people will still use them to advertise. That's why the better solution would be just to work with what we've got now and enforce more stricter rules on how people can operate campaigns here. We've let them get away with far too much with zero repercussions and the current state of the forum is the proof of what happens when we do nothing. If we had some guidelines or rules that were enforced campaigns would soon start to change how they operate because this forum is far too valuable to them, but they won't until there's punishments for running them badly.

The goal is a process; not a definition. Not an endorsement. Not a form to comfort yourself. This is something that awaits you.

The point: what are your goals in the Forum:
▶ ️ What are your goals in the forum?
▶ ️ Convey information or get upset about Merit regulations?
▶ ️ Convincing someone to be compassionate?
▶ ️ Entertaining?
▶ ️ Motivating and inspiring Mod / forum members to take action?
▶ ️ Making an idea or idea?
▶ ️ Touching the emotions of forum members?
▶ ️ Or introduce yourself?

---

Knowledge: is like that. Work behind the scenes. No need for recognition. No need for glorification. There is no need for you to bow down to him like a slave. However,
knowledge: call you to respond and open your mind and your heart to it so you can unite well on the Bitcointalk forum with your own aspects, and thoughts.

I can easily admit I started posting more after joining a signature campaign. It is indeed more or less a hobby, and although I don't need the money, it doesn't hurt to have some spare digital cash either.
I joined my first campaign as a Full Member, almost a year after joining this forum, when I had 145 posts:
It was a strict campaign, and I've been cautious about my post quality ever since. And that brings me to hilariousetc's quote:
This would really be the key to ending signature spam. Instead of banning all signature campaigns, I'd like to see the results of setting a minimum payment (in Bitcoin) for all campaigns. If it costs real money instead of tokens created out of thin air, the advertising party has something to lose, and has a reason to be stricter.

That is the key difference I’d say that leads to different behaviour on the posting front on this forum. Paradoxically, it seems that many that do see the forum as a source of support tend to do it over multiple accounts with (now) lower ranks, whilst those that do enjoy the forum but that are not viewing it as a source of significant income, if at all, go around a different way, with better content on the whole.

I try to see the situation from a different perspective now, kind of What would Jesus theymos do?.
Even if sig. campaigns are bad thing, they are a way to spread the word about cryptocurrencies  in the developing countries. And we all know that there is no bad PR. As the "one friend introduced me to crypto" sounds really banal here, the reality is that more and more people are engaging with the cryptocurrencies and probably a small fraction of those shitposers actually can contribute to development of the crypto in those countries. I guess this is the reason not to remove the sig. campaigns.

For me personally, I don't really care if I will wear paid signature or not as my posting behaviors did't change much before and after the I joined the ChipMixer campaign. Almost all the crypto I have now, I bought, and I don't use the forum as income or to support my family. It's just a hobby which I really like

1. To get Attention
2. To tell us that they're just a Bias.
3. To gain Merit

I don't want to say bad things to those users who are posting these kind of threads here in Meta and other sections but can I ask? Why are you posting these kind of posts?

If you really don't care about merit then there is no need to post threads like these here. Just learn if you want to learn. Gain information if you want to and don't post threads like this. I know that there is a double meaning with this. Saying things like these but behind it, you are expecting that some high ranked members will give you merits.

Well that's obviously the source of the issue here and removing signatures is pretty much the only way to stop this nonsense immediately. I often wonder if signature campaigns will ever be removed here. Theymos has mentioned it would be a last resort and one he'd be willing to do if it came to it, but it would kill of most of the activity/traffic here (not that I'm saying that's a bad thing). I'd love to see the data and charts in the drop of actual traffic and how many people would instantly leave if it does ever actually happen. It'd probably just go back to the sort of numbers we had pre-2013. Maybe much less. I suspect signature campaigns are the only thing even keeping a lot of the 'old timers' here (though there are still a lot who admirably never joined campaigns for whatever reason). I think there are a couple of other things we could do before it ever got to completely removing signatures though such as punishing badly run campaigns and maybe even removing signatures from all the lower ranks first rather than a blanket ban on everyone, but as long as you can get paid to post we're always going to have an issue with spam in one way or another, but I think we need to try find more ways of limiting it before the inevitable happens.  

Just wonder how can you discuss a topic on daily basis for over an year and still add some meaningful information to it without repeating it, if it's not a price/news related or following some current events,  I see no point of topics with more than 10 pages, no one read the previous comments they just replaying to the OP or the last post. This often leads only to repeat something that was already said.
Look in the Bitcoin Discussion, pick one of the threads with more then 10 pages are read the comments, I'm pretty sure you'll end up even with copy/pasting cases. People just pumping their post count for the sig. campaigns, even if they have noting to say.

Do you think if we remove the sig. campaigns in general that those discussions will still go on?? No.

Posts made just for signature campaigns usually aren't helpful either, and that's the only reason people want merits, but let's be honest here; you're probably only posting for the potential of earning from signatures or bounties so what's the difference? If we announced that both signature campaigns and bounties were banned from this board outright today would you still be here tomorrow? I doubt it. The merit system was introduced because people were only signing up here to earn and even when they had little interest or knowledge about bitcoin/crypto and had little actual interest in learning about it but just earning, and that's the problem. Now people have the obstacle of merits to earn and it curbs that behaviour, but it shouldn't really even be on anyone's radar because if you came here to contribute because you would earn it naturally over time without even trying or noticing it. It's the fact that people put so much concern and emphasises on merit that's shows their true motives here.


Well I agree to a certain extent, but more often that not it's just the same old thing being discussed or complained about just reworded slightly. Just because a page is still active doesn't mean it's still of use either. Spammers will keep any thread active, especially the worst sorts of ones as they're often the easiest to spam in. 

It really doesn't matter how far back a thread was made/posted/started,as long as a user still has a thing or two to add to the discussion,then it's definitely OK still commenting on such threads..

We've got topics that've been on for close to a year now, and such topics still ocuppy the front page of their various sections as users still contribute a thing or two to the discussions daily

Well your assessment may be correct only based on the fact that this thread is a meaningless/redundant one

High quality posts such as this huh


But what do you really care, you've obviously gotten the one precious,elusive merit and gone right back into your bounty programs
I just hope theymos restricts paid(bounty)signature,to members and above

merit is a gift for high quality posts . It developed not only high quality posts but also low quality posts because many people posted for merit .

His question was posted more then a month ago, and he is inactive for over a month now, just somebody bumped the thread today and here we go again,the same discussions.
Not that it's bad to have discussions,no.. it's just that we repeat ourselves every single time this happens.

Is this right place to ask about opinion of merit ? Why should you disappointed for merit since your contribution is zero? I don't believe a good contributor can't earn merit. Yes, knowledge is more important than merit. But if you haven't contribute your knowledge then you are not going to earn merit even you make just post on meta. More important is contribute of your knowledge. And obviously merit will describe shortly how about your knowledge and how you are contributing on forum. So you can't underestimate merit as well. Your intention should contribute your best one, not for merit. Share with forum which is your best knowledge and try to help all how you can.

Example given is really nice.  One desiring to become human being will have to start his journey from Amoeba. Only the best will go up.  Days are gone when it was given as matter of right. 
So want to improve ranking; will have to gain knowledge and show results in the forum.

Seconded. We all know why we are here. Leaving Meta forum wouldn't be a good idea. We are here to learn and we keep on learning.

I don't think Meta will ever turn to discussion forum, we have got moderator there to put things in other.

That's your own opinion though u made a good point. Everyone have got what they are here for. Some are here for Bounties campaign while others are here to learn.

Those threads should be locked, if the OP is no longer online. They are just a ground to  start a new meaningless discussions.

When you consider that getting merits is not necessarily down to your high knowledge in bitcoin and cryptocurrency in general. Rather on your desire to learn, interact and contribute to the forum. And not just trying to earn through the forum.

Join discussions, read posts, take notes, contribute where you know you can be helpful.
Don't post or make unproductive threads in an attempt to get sympathy merits, it might work, but it does little for you especially when you return to spamming.

This thread was bumped today, but it's worth to note that OP last posted on the day theymos introduced the Enhanced newbie restrictions & requirements.
No signature earnings from spam = no more posts!

What a good picture to show the newbie that this forum is for cryptocurrency discussions and not for getting merit for one to join bounty campaign and then spam. I can't imagine why bitcointalk "forum" became a business for many. I do believe that users with this kind of attitude will likely to fall its right place.

Anyway, I still do believe on some newbie's out there (not this typical type) for joining and learning in this forum about cryptocurrency.

It really is time we had a list of noteworthy new members. I'm sorry that I haven't had time to work on my Snow Eagle site, but I have had quite a few issues to resolve recently, and that includes a failing clutch on my van, hopefully that will be replaced tomorrow. I'll try to start listing qulity members over the weekend or early next week.

In the meantime, if anybody else wants to start a similar project, then we could pool the lists.

Once again we are back on the bandwagon "merit broke my life sir!" that coming from a newbie.

Correct, but that what does that have to do with the forum? This is not college entrance test.

You get merits when people give you merits. If they dont feel like you earn merits then they wont give you any. If you are generic shitposter or a bounty spammer you wont get any merits.

Good example of a thread which is wasting people's time here is this one itself. Better lock it before you face more trashing from other members.

I believe that if you have the knowledge and you know how to use it, then you have every opportunity to get the long-awaited merit. However, the problem of those who aren`t able to receive it is precisely the absence or lack of cognition. If you really own interesting and useful information, and share it with other participants, your efforts will be appreciated. Therefore, it`s not entirely clear to me how knowledge may not entail merit.

Nice dought. Why are you asking this if you know the answer? No, having a high rank of course isn't necessary. You can post or read this forum forever as a Newbie or Junior if you wish. A higher rank is necessary if you want to earn from signature campaigns as you can't earn anything via campaigns because as a newbie you have no signature, and you can earn more from bounties as a higher rank, but that is the only reason people care about them. If you don't care about them then great: happy reading and learning.

Haven't you heard? Topics saying that "merit isn't important" is the upgraded version of topics that complain about merits!

There's no limit per se, it's just that the same topic has been posted for like a bajillion times already. I'm pretty sure you already noticed that.

Seriously.  I think this is the last post I'm going to make in Meta for a while, and I'm thinking about putting the whole section on ignore temporarily just so I don't have to see all of these garbage threads.  Not that I don't have anything to say about all of this, but all of these noob posts from members who've probably never even read anything in Meta before are driving me nuts.  And the blatant merit begging is also starting to wear thin.

I said earlier this morning that I was going to go easy with putting new members on my ignore list, but that's already sailed right out the window.  I've probably put 25 or so people on ignore in the last two hours, and that's after reviewing their posts here and their post history.  I strongly believe that most of them aren't going to improve because there's too much of a language barrier and that they have no business expecting merits for posts in a language they can't write.  I'm not even talking about minor garbling but straight-up murdering the language.

Hopefully Theymos added some merit sources on the local boards.  All is not lost and as I've said before, I don't think this change is going to be as bad as everyone thinks.  It stings for some Jr. Members who got busted back down to Newbie, but they'll just have to step it up and improve.  I'm all in favor of bitcointalk becoming more Darwinian and not awarding a participation trophy to everyone who makes a post here.

Yes, right. Knowledge is better than ranking, so let this rule function as it is. There are still many jobs out there that can provide benefits.

Please, don't turn Meta in section like Bitcoin discussions. We have enough sections clogged with "discussions" like this. If you think that knowledge is more valuable than merit, then go learn some new stuff instead of starting threads like this.

Today many are disappointed with the new ranking rules, including myself. However, after I think about it, merit and ranking are not everything. Knowledge is more important than merit. With knowledge I will get more than merit. What about your opinion?