Topic: Merit System Numbers too high to achieve - A Suggestion (Read 1328 times)

The new system, unfortunately, gave a powerful impetus to speculation in the sale and purchase of merits. Today more than 10 people suffered from an impudent liar, who sold Meriti. On the one hand it can be called a lesson, on the other hand many beginners, not understanding the system , simply fall into the trap of the liar. A huge negative is that these innovations, introduced just before penerangan and to many, it is not to their liking. Although its advantages are not yet clear)

It's actually not that hard and those numbers are way, way too low. You'd have to change a lot more than just those numbers because Every hero member can give out 50 and if you reduce the sMerit number monthly, you'd pretty much get the same ratio. It's still slow because it is new and people still aren't used to giving it out. Give it some time to catch on.

Interestingly people are posting essays in every post, Someone got 1000 merits in a single thread for repeating one thing for a million times, Of course someone with the ability to post high quality, Would keep doing it, Just like a doctor would keep doing what he can do best, Now you want everyone to be or act like a doctor

I'm sorry you didn't get merit for your constructive posts, that is part of the problem. A successful strategy right now is to agree with the people who have the merit and make them laugh - exactly like pledging a frat or joining a country club. It looks to me that you got 500 merit for the 750ish posts you made. That is a great ratio! You might even be one of the few with the intelligence and humor to keep it up, maybe even exceed it.

Nevertheless, when I see posts like yours being merited so highly because of your wit and political stance, rather than because of your experience, technical knowledge or philosophical views, I feel scared and threatened that I will have to change who I am to be taken seriously on this forum. I've already read dozens of posts telling me if I didn't like it I could leave. I never saw that kind of coercion just a few weeks ago. It is frightening to new members like me to know that I am not welcome here.


Can you please point me to some technical or insightful posts you've made? I can't find any of your posts with more than 10 words, and none of them lead me to believe you know anything about bitcoin.

I do think it is strange and hilarious that you decided my comment was about you - personally -

What the fuck does it matter if legendaries form huge chains of merit circle-jerks or pass the merit around like a joint?  They're still not gonna give it to all of you shitposters, so it shouldn't matter to you anyway!  I hear people bitching about merit points being "wasted" because they're going from Vod--->hilariousandco--->Lauda--->actmyname--->etc., but this just isn't true.  None of those legendary members are likely to go around rewarding some ignorant twattus with merit points for telling us all the wonderful ways we can earn bitcoin.  Not gonna happen, sir.

Me too. Accepted new system, new rules, deposited of the fact that I am a little bit disappointed about this one. I will be a Member next week, but this new one change the game and my case too.

Well I have at least a day to become a SR. Member and haven't got anything against the new system because I know it is for a greater good.
I will try to earn my merits in a good way too.
I am not rushing things though it's awesome to be a SR. Member upon waiting.

Well I am accepting the challenge too. I just hope many are reviewing posts.

It's good to hear from your experience, even my rank is higher than you. I would like to make contributive posts and see when I collect enough merit points  for upgrading to Full Member. Thanks for the merit system which highly correlated with user ranking system, which will help us to have less contributors in the future. Spammers will give up, spamming posts will decrease significantly over time, cleaner forum.

Agree. At the start of merit system, I cannot imagine that I can get merit points from other users in the forum. By now, I have got 8 merits for my contributive posts from other generous users. I think that is the way merit system will truly work and improve our forum to be a cleaner, more knowledgeable one.

People will cheat this system just like they do feedback or ranks, but that doesn't make them useless or not important for you to achieve genuinely. It's not going to be easy to achieve ranks now but I don't think it should be and this was part of the problem of the ranking system in the first place, but if you're a quality contributor over time you'll be recognised as such and rewarded eventually.  


And what about all my other 'constructive' posts that I've made that got absolutely no merit at all by the so called legendary crowd? I think you shouldn't take yourself so serious. It can't have been a shitpost if people gave it merit and appreciated it, but I'm guessing they found it funny more than anything which a little humour is needed around here. If I hadn't of posted the image then I doubt it would have gotten everything at all and I think if anyone else would have made that post they would have likely got the merit regardless of rank.

Compensating for forgetting more about bitcoin than you will ever know? Compensating for being on these boards for 1000+ days? Posting, questioning, learning....

Need I say more?

The legendary crowd doesn't understand because they get (5!) fricken merit for a shitpost like this. You literally spent 10 seconds writing that post and got merited by (guess who?) other legendary members. You created an exclusive club - I'm sure that makes you feel very proud of yourself - you can just tell everyone else to F*Off if they don't like it, because you're in and they are out. 

IMO people who decide to create exclusive clubs are compensating for something...

I never been against the system and even if I dislike some of the points about this new merit system , I still believe that moderators are trying their best to get this forum much better than it is now , but what I'm sure about is that people will try anyway to cheat to get this Merit and rank up , and other people who really posting a high quality posts will be stuck for ever in the bottom of this forum and never get merit for what they are doing because of some folks who doesn't care about giving merit for who really deserve it

Giving members such as me merit points is pretty much useless and I really don't care about accumulating them, but people are free to give points as they wish and they will reward posts they deem thoughtful, informative, entertaining or they just down right  agree with it. I think higher ranked members will give them out quite liberally if one of these criterias are met regardless or rank or reputation, because they ultimately want the forum to be a better place and to improve and currently this is the best way to encourage it. You may disagree with what posts others give merit out for but I think you are likely more biased due to your dislike of the system than somebody who you think may be giving them out just to 'lick ass'.

Merits will show out the high quality posters to the manager if wanna join in campaign and want to involved translations or other projects. Hence, I believe this good implementation in this forum. Newbies and guys who are all lesser than full member will buthurt because this. Lol.
Forum standard will increase like all cannot be use and make everything in the forum.

you were just replaying with this post , you didn't come up with something new , something constructive but you still get merit points !!! just ask your self why ? Because you're famous , your a moderator a legendary member . Off course I'm not complaining about you high quality post but I believe this post dose not deserve merit points but you know people always love licking ass . What I'm trying to say is that this not the best idea for improving the posts quality in here . I don't expect to get merit for this post because I don't deserve it . Because only high quality posts are allowed to get it . Do not feel offended because I do have a lot of respect for you

I won't say the merit system is perfect but its not too high and you don't know who is watching. Today I just noticed my merit increased and I was wondering what I did or who found it worthy only to discover that it was not even a recent post, it was not all epistle post, it was just an expression of opinion on certain matter and it was from someone who I never had contact with on the forum and don't even care about reciprocating it.

What I fear is for people who are likely to be impatient with the whole process and wanted to rank up by all means because there is a huge gap between one level and the other. Again, let all work together because its possible to gather 50 merit in a day but not 50 activities so with proper intelligent posts one might even get the merit to be a Hero Member while still a Senior Member.

Ranking matters if you participate in bounty campaigns and you receive a larger stake if your rank is higher.  Other than that reason, ranks doesn't mean much.  I've seen high ranking members act like they are newbies.  

sorry, I think it's a good policy to improve the quality of users in bitcoin forums, and many more benefits for the progress and existence of the world of bitcoin crypto in the future. so that will be born shades of thought and ideas that brilliant as a driver of bitcoin future.

^ Lmao.  I almost replied then I saw it was you.

I think a more pertinent question is do you understand what you're saying? This forum is pretty unique just by the fact that you can earn here and that's why you're here and won't be leaving anytime soon just as the hordes of shitposters wont be either. They'll kick and scream for a bit like you're doing because they now can't rank up easy by shitposting but they'll quieten down once they realise it's futile and this change is for the better.


Stick to your local board if you're not fluent in English. There'll be plenty of other users there who will leave merit for posts they deem worthy but people shouldn't be allowed to farm accounts by spamming poor, practically unintelligible posts and this system is trying to prevent that.


Of course it matters. 99% of users who sign up to this forum do so just because of signature campaigns and achieving a higher rank is essential to them earning more. If signature campaigns were banned or stopped most would instantly leave and never return.

That's the thing tho.  Does ranking up really matter?  What if theymos got rid of it entirely...?  Would that still interest you to keep posting even if you didn't feel like it?  No, right?

Merit is favored to all. This will serve as a gas to move properly with this kind of terms.
Yes, I really aspire you guys (Member-Legendary). But the merit system seems unfair to us as jr. I am not so good with regards in Engligh language and I try my best to improve.
My point is this not all full members - legendary are doing their best to promote a good constructive quality post. Why those communities are favored too.? Is that a token of respect for being here for a long time.?

If the post is really worthy to be merited, I don't mind. And the system allows you to gain sMerits if someone merited your posts so even if a large portion of merits are sent to merit sources they can just give the sMerits they gained to other people.

But the distribution is really an important question. I think we should have a designated boards for every N number of merit sources just like we have a specific moderator/s for every board. They should still have the power to give merits in whatever board but only after they've finished doing their rounds on their designated boards.

At any rate, We'll see how efficient the distribution is after a month or two so let's give it some time first  

You and I may not have much sMerit to give. But from the way I've seen some folks throwing it around, that's not true for everyone. My guess is, the distribution method isn't going to end well:

I think the MERIT SYSTEM is good in the way that it will help get rid of the many bounty hunter cheaters that have pervaded the forum. Giving value and getting value from everyone posting something decent on this forum will make it a much more pleasant space to be in and grow/develop at the same time. Just seeing 'when lambo' and 'when moon' posts popping up and 'this is a shit coin', baseless FUD posts to try to bring down the competition, does not help readers or potential investors into the Crypto/Bitcoin market space. Although I do like sometimes the sense of humor, let's put quality back into the forum and help guide and encourage the Newbies to contribute in a good way while they are learning their way around. 

It is funny how people try to minimize or stop the idea of this system and be totally drag down by a lot of answers from the people who think this idea is great. In the end they can't do anything but to follow. After a month or a week maybe another thread will be made about this and it will be either minimizing the requirement or complaining about it.

The ranks aren't proportionally equal so it can't be set like that.  I like the new merit system.  This is similar to Ebay's feedback ratings. 

Sir, I totally agree that the merit system was implemented to encourage quality posting but there are some people who have already found out ways to get the merits and rank up fast even if they aren't giving quality posts. In the Meta section, there is already a thread made about the accounts which are abusing the merit system (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/list-users-that-are-abusing-merit-system-2823221)
     
Another thing sir there are many people who are giving merits to only the high ranked and famous members of this forum like you all and literally, it would get difficult for even members who are giving quality posts to gain merits because no one is interested to give merits to the lower and less known members because all are busy sending merits to big and famous members. It was just a thought that I had and what I saw in these 2 days, correct me if I am wrong about any part here.

Lmao.
Do you understand what are you saying?
BTW I don't want to talk with another Legendary who get benefit from this system.
Good luck with your happiness.
One day no one care about this forum if this Merit score isn't changed, and don't react with my prediction yet.
Keep this Merit system going on and don't change anything, and remember my prediction.
King will be rotated.
You are not unique in this crypto-world.

I'm complaining because I was a week away from moving up .
I do put effort in my posts ,I help beginners (when I can because I consider myself to be one too) ,I post a lot of airdrops (good ones ,not shitty ones...I mostly do it in the French section because the us topic is a trashcan) and I give my opinion on trading (also ask questions) .
I don't spam and I don't post anything that is useless in my opinion ...but now I will be a full member in what ?6 months ,a year ?I have zero knowledge in mining ,I'm not an expert in trading yet so getting those merit points will be hard to get ,I'm sure of it .
But I'm in no way lazy or useless to this board .

And the people complaining ,from what I've seen are people like me .The lazy ones ,the spammers and other shitty posters are too afraid to say anything and expect to rank up by whoring .

The merit system is best thing we have achieved for our forum and this is surely going to end the poor quality posting. People will now learn how hard it is for a manager to choose yourself while working on signature campaign, it’s pain staking job!

I have seen people crying around the signature campaign, about their non acceptance in the campaign. But a manger knows very well what he is doing, and the Merit system is what will support the managers the most.

I can’t believe that people are still trying to have midway around the merit system by making it simpler in one way other.

How hard it is to write a quality posts guys? You just have to follow the rules, and come on even high school level students are better now a days. I’m sure most of us here are adolescents plus! At least we can acquire that sense of writing, read, read and study that is what will save our ass and nothing else.

Those who fear of the system already are the one who are not accepting the change due to their inadequacy and inabilities to think that they can do better posting.

Let’s accept the Merit Syetm and protocol which is published already. On top of that we should make sure that the system doesn’t get corrupted in the long run with helping hands! It has t be pure and earned by ourselves.

Though I am a Full Member and its going to take a long long time for me to achieve the merit system required to grab the next rank, but again, the suggestion posted makes no sense.

There is a reason the "Newbies/Jr Member" have the tag, cause they are New and they need to learn and hence they deserve to get a better rank on a lower metrics score so that they will be encouraged to post more quality posts.

On the other side, "Full/Sr" Members are in the forum from at least 4 months+, they should have used the time and space for learning instead of doing shit posting. They had enough time and encouragement and are expected to write way better quality posts then the Newbies/Jr Members.

Over the time, people have started utilizing the forum just for the sake of bounties and have forgotten the real reason behind establishment of this forum. The new merit system will bring a lot of sense to these guys and encourage them on working on there understanding/learning/knowledge base.

yeah you're right.. this kind of rules is only for the members who are already ranked up and doesnt matter to them if they dont ranked up anymore. how about people who post quality post but doesnt get any kind of merit. its hard to get merit in this new kind of rules. i know this kind of rules is set up so that the admin monitor or control all members that post shit post in the forum. but it has big effect also to the members that post quality post. hope we can make a consideration and revised the new rules. thanks

It will stop shitposter from ranking up which is a great thing however it doesnt do anything for members who provide quality post and are not getting any merit because other users may be upset they are not getting any which just trickles down to everyone staying where they are.  This only benefits the top who are already ranked up and this doesnt matter to them.  I like the idea in general but this could drive people who do contribute away if the contribute but have no hope of ever realistically ranking up because they are not getting merit.

It wont. It'll just force users to stop shitposting if they want a chance of earning anything here.


Correction: It will make people post less shitposts. Devs will never stop shilling their crap here as the forum is too valuable to them and there's currently no better or bigger audience and this merit system wont change that.


Good. I don't see this as a negative.


I seriously doubt it. This forum is still a goldmine to them. Where else can they advertise for free to tens of thousands of users?


And that won't change, but I'd rather there be much better quality posts than just streams of shit posted just so users can rank up. The only people who are seemingly complaining about this are those that are now going to have to put some effort into their posts and can't just lazily hit ranks over time.

Meta section is crowded with threads that has a topic about merits, well this is a new feature where somebody can consider it as a blessing and while other consider it as a bad timing. 1 day of implementing merits and still counting. 

I have one and a half month to be a sr.member but I'm not expecting to achieve that rank because of this merit thing.

However, i will try my best.

Merit challenge accepted.

I'm sure that you only meant to say that you disagreed with me ,not that I'm wrong ...that would be rude otherwise .

I used to run a forum and the quality was great but it was only a fraction of what it was supposed to be in terms of popularity .Why ?Because scammers ,shitty posts and scammers weren't allowed .The only difference is the purpose of my board wasn't for its members to make money ,it was for them to have fun .For this one here ,it is about money or are you gonna tell me again that I'm wrong and people are here for...fun ?

I agree with you in the fact that it seems certain that the Merit system will not just add a quality requirement, but also increase the overall time requirement. And it might seem unfair that the time requirement is increased.
But arguably an increase in time requirement seems like it was deserved. With account farming, users seem to be bursting through the rank caps a lot faster than should be expected.

I could've seen this implemented due to just an increase in required activity... but this was a lot better.

I don't think so, this move is actually good for the forum, now the bitcoin discussion thread will be filled with people talking about the development of bitcoin and what's currently happening with it, not filled with threads talking about nonsense stuffs. When I signed up on here I thought I'll learn and be updated on what's currently happening with segwit and the new lightning network but when I browse around the bitcoin discussion thread all I see are posts not even related to what's currently happening, which is unfortunate knowing that this used to be the forum where satoshi created bitcoin.

If people will post less then that's their problem, this will always be the place for announcement threads so I don't think your argument regarding project devs not finding this forum attractive enough for advertisement is valid. This is the place where cryptocurrency started so project devs will always find this board interesting.

You're wrong about that as well, quality post is the most important thing about this place and for any forum in the world wide web.

Now that sounds like a real positive benefit. Good heavens, people might even start to talk about Bitcoin.

Looks like a useful tool to weed out the spammers, farmers and cheaters. I thought computer people were supposed to be intelligent.

This is gonna kill the forum if it stays that way .
People will post less which will make the board less attractive for project devs .
Since it will be harder to move up in rank ,there will be less people with avatars and flashy sigs (the higher your ank is ,the more visible your signature is_ .All in all ,same issue ,project devs won't find as much interest in this board .

The huge number of members and posts is the most important thing for this place .

That won't work for me. I'm a selfish bugger, and I've only got a few points to give away. They will go to people who help me regardless of their status. For example, if I want to set up a node on a Raspberry Pi, then a newbie could have a lot of Pi experience and make valuable contributions, and he should be rewarded for it. Alternaively if a poster states "My dog prefers Strawberry Pie", then he should get nothing, under the old system he would have got an activity point.

Yes, let's see, but I'm not sure about quality improvement. sMerit points are so scarce that it is probably not even worth trying and there are rules about meaningless posts already.

I totally agree with this.


The problem is, what if this would just result to "favoritism" system. Those who are not well known members of this forum will be left out and those who are already legendary and well know (mods, staff, legendary, etc.) will just keep on getting merits just because they've known each other. Let's just see after a month if this system would just go as other people view it.

you may have a suggestion for us to get merit easily, but we the users of this forum, should be grateful to all DT members who work hard to make this forum better, and allowed to join in it.

I do not think we should argue about this again, because I also think there is no policy in this world without controversy. now we just have to think, how we can make a thread or a good comment to get merit.

although I also feel in disadvantage of this, but we all must learn to think positive. because I'm sure, all who make this rule have been thinking good and bad

I'm coming round to the new system. The old system just required volume regardless of quality, and that was part of the spamming problem. The new system involves ( in part ) voting on post quality by the posters peers. If this is not abused, then it could be a great way to improve quality. Part of this is as a result of a type of feedback on posts. If I make a post that is seen to be helpful, and thus gains some merit points, then that appreciation encourages me to make further constructive posts. If a series of posts don't receive any merit points, then I know that I am on the wrong tack.

Most of them are mods, hero, legendary and circle of friends. That's the whole point. Those who are of low rank will not gain any merit points because it just circulate to those who know each other and who joined early on this forum. Let's just see how this new system will go in a month. Sure the quality of posts would improve because people will try hard to earn merit points. However, let's see if those merit points willbe given fairly to those people who really deserve it and who really tried hard.  

You can see who has gained/received the most merit All-time  over here, https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?action=merit;stats=topusersat

Currently theymos has almost received 1k, and Lutpin has  received around ~500.

It also has some other stats which include who gave the most, and all recent merits etc.

Just as easy as winning at a lottery.
How many other people have earned 500 merits today? Or even just 100? By the way, who is the lucky dude if I may ask? Is there a sort of richlist of the people who get the merits that one can check?

A single thread generated over 500 merit for a single user... I don't see how it'd be hard to earn 1000 merit within a year or so.

Lmao.  Hey you can't blame him for trying... 

What you say is generally correct. However I'd have a question about your point "That is plenty of time to get the merit points required in order to rank up". I was supposed to rank up to Hero Member in 5 days form now, since I'm missing only 4 points of activity for that. Now suddenly I am also missing 250 points of merit, which I should achieve in 5 days. According to my estimate it will probably take years, I see that people have very few sMerits at their disposal, so you are likely to get one just now and then. If you get one sMerit every 4 posts you do (BTW I doubt you can get so many) I will now need to make another 1000 GOOD posts before becoming a Hero. Could please explain me better this "plenty of time" concept?

This is more like asking for merits which defeats the purpose. I think new members should now learn from these experienced members and watch their posts getting more merits.

Ok Understood. Thanks

tl;dr: no.

Long explanation:

Ok I agree with you. 
Just one suggestion,  Leg. is the highest rank and no one should be allowed to give more Merits to Legendary as they are already the most respected person. Instead use those merits to give to those who are less than Legendary and needs them for their quality work.

The merit system is there to encourage you to make quality posts. Contribute something positive to a topic by saying more then I agree. You can get multiple merit points for your replies if users deem it a quality post.

I want to see the numbers doubled or tripled honestly. Users have 35 weeks to start from newbie to sr member and 70 weeks to get to hero. That is plenty of time to get the merit points required in order to rank up.

All these users that troll the bitcoin discussion section, trading discussion, altcoin discussion, economy, and speculation sections are going to need to start making better posts or they'll be stuck at their current rank for a long time.

It's meant to be a little tough but not impossible.

If it's that easy to get points then it defeats the whole purpose of the system and it makes it much easier to farm/sell points.

The system is great and if implemented in true sense without favourism can only benefit for everyone.

Prediction:
Its Just the first day of this system but come back here after a month or so and you will see Jr Member and all other ranks will stuck at where they are and all those Selfish DT Members (Lunda / Pharmist / Actmyname  etc)  + Not Selfish DT Members   + few good friends of them  will have  buckets full of merits  and bitcointalk will be for those only 500 to 600 Users. 

Now you see a spam by the Selffish DT members that "Improve your post quality" And we will still tag you Shit Poster

So no need to debate on this, just come back after a month on this and check the merits of everyone 


Anyways now coming for the help of Ordinary public of bitcointalk, I have just one suggestion , Can we lower the number of the merits in order to achieve Ranks.

I mean if a Member needs 10 then why not

Full Member    20
Sr. Member    30
Hero Member    40
Legand               50

Of course only a good poster will first get 10 points to become member and time it take to achieve Hero to Leg. is still that same 1.3  to 2 years.