Topic: Merits should be given for the lower ranks only. (Read 847 times)

The merit system was brought to the forum to clean it up from spammers, only high qualified posts will be merited no matter what the rank is, still the high ranked people will be the first to judge the small ranks and give merits, but how exactly they judge posts ? on which scale they consider a post high qualified ?, what if you don't share them the same opinion and yet you are qualified, do you think they will still give you a merit ? or just impose their ideas and ignore you because you are a beginner, this is where the problem of the merit system lies, ranking up depends on what people think about you actually, it is a great move but not fair enough.

You are a Full member here and still consider yourself as a low rank member ? What about junior members like me or newbies ? I guess no one is content here.

I think even the high ranked members do not have much control in the merit system. Most of the merits come from merit sources. But the fact is that a high ranked member has good knowledge about the forum rules and he also makes detailed posts related to bitcoin prices and updates. Thus they good good number of merits and it adds corresponding sMerits in their profile.

yes, I agree with you, I doubt that post that belongs to high-rank members could earn merits more easy than lower rank members

It is the higher rank members of the forum that would be the ones giving merits to us low ranked members based on post quality and other things and for that even they would require sMerits which they will have only if they receive merits so the cycle there has to be a cycle of distribution of merits among the users. What you are doing is just complaining about the system if you wanna rank up make better posts and the higher ranked members that are above us will do there work of giving merits to the people who deserve it.

Opinions about shared as I see and I understand arguments of both sides in this point. I think even if you find out a lot of supportes the forum's rules will not be changed in the case of merit system, because of I see people who rule all the staff here (as Lauda) do not find your idea as a good one.

I looked at the suggestions in those threads and they are illogical. Here is why :

1) He is suggesting something like giving merit points for certain amount of activity like based on total time logged in. Hearing this suggestion, first thing that comes to mind is that spammers will keep the account logged in for hours to make advantage of this.

2) He also suggested something like giving one merit for posts above 100 words. I have seen some of the responses by spammers here more than 300 words or so and they are just meaning less. They keep stretching the same thing to make posts longer.

This is exactly the point that the OP and other newbies should understand and comprehend. I always see posts in this section on how the merit system is against lower rank members and how it favors the higher ranked members since they wouldn't need the merits. Well here's the thing: not all higher ranked members are merit sources which is why the circulation of merits towards each member, no matter what rank, should be sustained. Despite their high rank, Senior, Hero, and Legendary members are eligible in receiving merits as they are the ones who can spread it around the forum efficiently. Just think of the merit system this way, it doesn't favor any rank as its continual circulation is needed for members to progress in this forum.

I suggest theymos look into this suggestions.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/--3066432

It will offer some other avenue to earn merits in addition to the present system.
Or Legendary and Hero members can adopt this system to improve reviews of what is worthy of meriting.

 https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/14-merit-bonus-for-quality-users-jr-to-sr-member-3046992

This is in a bid to keep the forum strengthened.

More and more merit farmer. Trying another suggestion and making plead just to earn merit from a quality posting. All of these are all over the meta. The current merit system will not adjust for posters that could not even make a simple understanding about the rules.

There can be a number of other reasons for admin allowing merits for higher rank members:

1) He might have decided to add requirements like having some minimum earned merits to retain the current rank. If the merit points were limited to only the new members and this change was introduced, it would mean that all high rank members will loose their rank.

2) We can also have something like the requirement of getting some merits per year. Othwerwise it really makes no sense to allow merits for the highest rank here as they do not need it. 

I'm agree in Merit point is entitled only in lower ranks but merit points created for all of us, so that all we should be post have a meaning and great quality. I think their is another purpose why the higher ranks also entitled in Merit Point. Forum always open in changes, just do our best, always.

Well you've said it nicely, it seems hard to get merit but it somewhat actually isn't at all. Right now, merit is still new and most likely some posts that deserve merit didn't get merited and all of us have different understanding of quality, so just give it some time.

Take care with your posting - begging for merit is not allowed.

I don't agree with most of what OP wrote, and it sounds like just another noobie thread complaining about not getting merits *fast enough*. 

As for myself, I obviously don't need merits to rank up, but I think it's somewhat important to campaign managers when they're looking at a potential participant's quality of "work".  I know DarkStar_ very much keeps track of the merits that have been earned in the Chipmixer campaign, though he hasn't used it to fire anyone or anything else.

When someone sends me merit(s) for posts I've made that they like, I've thus far given the sMerits back in the manner of paying it forward.  And if you look at my "sent merits" history, I've given quite a few of them to unknown (to me), low-ranked members. 

I agree that it's the low-ranked members who need them most, but I've also noticed that it's these same ones who tend to make some of the shittiest posts I've ever read on bitcointalk.  There are too many noobs, alt accounts, and throwaway ones for them to ever receive the amount of merit they're expecting.  What they need to do is just be patient. 

The merit system is kind of designed to let people rank up slowly--except if you're nullius, making a lot of very high-quality posts.  Everyone else just needs to wait.

That won't work.
Accounts will be hacked, this "unlimited merit" will fall into the hands of "merit-dealers".

3 up or down votes per day to every member.
Equal opportunities is a must.

Actually newbies, jr. members, members, full members and senior members are the bracket who needs to earned high numbers of merits to ranked up. After that hero members was not needed it too much merit to rank up, because they are at the point that they need only to wait to complete their merit to reach out the legendary position. In real it's hard for them to gain merit but we have no choice, we need to follow the new rules system, for now I believe that merit system should given to lower rank only.

People calling this thread a blatant farming of merits is blatant too. Where the point that this thread is a merits farming? this is just a simple opinion that man called it blatant could not comprehend.

Thanks Lauda for a kind words. All newbies should look up you as a model of quality posting. I just couldn't believe that there is a Legendary act like a spammer.

Lucky for those account member did not need merits for ranking up more like Legendary and Hero member, but how about just like me as a lower rank it is impossible to have an merit if they like to give because i am lower rank. Many good poster did not recognized their post especially those lower ranks as what i have observed even though they are deserving to have a merit not like high rank.
Those higher rank having more smerit compared with lower rank i think they must give attention of it. For me i have 1 smerit to give how could i give more for those i think must deserving to have.

Yes, I try to do useful posts as shitposting serves no purpose + it wastes my time as well. I didn't shitpost before those new rules and I certainly won't start now, but I'm not sure if everything is gravy, as you phrased it. I already had several situations where I thought about how I could get more Merit.
Just an example. Early on, I made a German infographic for the local forum. (https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.29007624).
I posted it in the main Merit-thread (not pinned at that time) as I thought that it would add value and answer many questions that came up. I wrote OP that he could use it in his post. He got 50 Merit, I got 10 so far.
I thought about creating a new thread, modifying it a bit so that it wouldn't be a copy of his. That way, I would have gotten more Merits for sure, but decided against it, because I hate redundant threads myself.

My point here is: I don't like the way the new system lets us compete. Why wasn't the x5 of merit sources and spendable sMerit introduced in the first place? Why only give the minimum of Merit needed for the Rank and not doing a proportional distribution (activity >> merit)?

You yourself said that there will be a lag and lots of moaning posts. This could have been partially avoided. Now people will moan and they have reasons. It's just sad to see so many higher-ranking members who are annoyed by these posts instead of showing sympathy, they simply don't need to face the same situation. Patronizing behavior doesn't serve anyone (not saying you are doing it).

But sure, I will go about as usual and I hope that the increase in distributed sMerit will happen sooner rather than later as it is much needed so that we can forget about all this drama and continue with the reason we are all here for - crypto.

True.  It seems so hard to get a merit .. that it is seemingly impossible to increase in rank.

Merit points won't make any difference to me as a forum member - there really isn't much difference between a Hero and a Legendary when it comes to benefits.

However, what the awarding of merit points will do is to allow me to hone and focus my thread starting amd posting. No merit points for as category of posts means that nobody is interested, so I can stop posting about that topic, or in that form. The merit system has already made me change my attitude towards the forum. I have decided to explore and support the expanding world of crypto bounties which is such an important element on this forum.

dude, you have been given 52 merits in a week.. you cant be a shitposter..  so you are cool and gravy. Activity will be the only limiting factor for you, so just go about your day as usual. IMO theymos will end up increasing the sMerits given to sources every month x5 and increase the total number of sources x5 then there will be a fair distribution,  Until then there is likely to be a big lag and lots of moaning posts

I totally get what you are saying here. But that's not the point of all those posts many lower-ranking Members are creating in the last days. Sure, some try to get or 'farm' Merit but many refer to the highly subjective nature of the new system. The old one was objective and fair: more posts = higher rank over time. I understand why this leads to spam and I support measures that put an end to spam in the forum. But please understand that 'it will trickle down in time' is like your boss saying, 'sure, you did a good job, but I can't pay all of you. But be assured, you'll be paid eventually.'

As long as there is money involved, being able to distribute sMerit is a form of power and if this power is distributed subjectively, people will always feel left out. That's just the way things are. It doesn't help when Members who have this power (and tend to give it to their own more freely) say that everything is fine. Sure, it is a new rule and can't be changed, so people better get used to it, but it's not 'fine'.

I hope you don't get me wrong here. I accepted the new rules - obviously, otherwise I could just leave - and I try to adapt. But I keep seeing higher-ranking Members who try to argue that everything is ok and that it will sort itself out eventually. People have to accept the new system but you can't will it a fair system by repeating that everything is ok  

Blatant Merit farming like this just wont work..

newbies have not been given merit as there are so many farmers out there, how will that help the system? think of it like a champagne pyramid, the merit will get to the bottom eventually. Some of us are pouring it at all levels, others like Lauda will not give to anyone they do not know or deal with, but the main point is that it will trickle down in time.

That's a bit harsh to say, don't you think? People try to cope with this new situation and it's only natural that different people have different ideas and views. He just expressed his.

As I understood it, he maybe meant to exclude those higher ranks from the necessity of getting Merits in the first place while at the same time grant them the function of a merit source. You can't deny that higher ranks often get a higher amount of merit compared to lower ranks - sometimes without even having made a 'quality post'. That's no problem per se - at least for me - but people observe this and voice their concern. This will fade in time but for now, it's something that will be discussed in the forum and people will try to come up with a 'better' way - at least in their eyes.

Every people have their own choice , judgement,and opinion about who deserve the merit.
If newbie able create a post like Danny Hamilton's post , he deserve a merit but if newbie is just looking for minimal post count because of bounty's need than he did not deserve any single merit (* if he provide low quality )

I think Merit will change forum's quality in the future so let's just see the progress

Yes, I know this, just want to show that current numbers are far from enough for forum. And such a low number of merit don't give us an ability to use it as it was supposed to.

Theymos will add more merit sources so the amount of sMerit that can be given away will increase. Keep in mind that the system is only a few days old, give people time to discover and use it.

Spammers don't deserve merit for sure, but the question is what kind of posts deserves? As is was declared merit is needed to reduce low-quality posts. Yes, spam and posts alike "I agree" aren't quality posts, but for example are posts in altcoins discussion about news, developers, etc useful? In my, opinion, yes. But mostly, they don't have +merit. What kind of posts have +merit? As I see, it is one of the following: outstanding posts, topicstarters, or posts with some features, programs, spreadsheets, infografics for example, so +merit is given not for post, but for result of work.
There will be about 18000 new smerit each month including redistribution, so this is only for 600 posts if 1 merit is given to each. Only outstanding posts will receive merit, and rarely just good and useful.

lower ranks are spammers ?

Lauda you a fucking peace of shit who needs to get placed back in his place where he belongs.

You are the biggest scammer and loser on this board


and btw your posting are the biggest brain fucked shit ever.

Lauda wants to force project managers and ITO's to accept his own made rules or else he is going to defame them.

What a brain fucked shit he is

Why would I give random spammers any merit? E.g., this thread is a nice example of attempted, yet failed, quality posting.

even you are receiving merits you dont bother to give to the lower ranks. what makes a difference then?

I think what he is saying is the top rankings should just get unlimited merit to give and progress normally to the next level.  They pass their merit down to the lower rankings.

He’s got a point, if the merit system is supposed to prevent spamming and farming, then I guess it is unlikely that higher ranked members would be spammers and farmed accounts.  Plus, once you reach a certain level of merit, 250 for a Sr Member, it is probably already well established that you are not a shit poster.  Needing 750 more to make legendary seems like overkill.

Merit isn't about rank it is about the quality of your post so I think it is for everyone not just for the lower ranks,
The merit system is created to lessen the spammers who are just spamming this forum to attain higher ranks .
This is why the merit is a good way for others to make sure that they are only posting a good quality of topics or answers.

Yes, you are right. I like the new system. Merit will be change someone to make post more constructive because they want get the merit. So, make your post more constructive again to get many more merits 

Merits should be given to everyone not just those on lower ranks but also to higher ranks to be fair and to avoid meaningless post of the latter. I don't think we should be afraid of the merit system as long as we know that we always have post that is relevant to the topic and meaningful as well.

We all have the same rights to evaluate each other answers and questions. This current situation in which the older members have received More Merit is our personal problem (or the problem of members who did join the forum later). We have to learn to deal with the changes because changes will always evolve. The system has been designed to reduce spamming and low-quality posts, and it's a fact that older members have greater knowledge and experience in opposite to those who just joined the forum(Elders had deserved that wast amount of merit).

It is fantastically designed concept and those which do not want to accept that concept can freely join another forum in search for the answers. (It is generally known that a new rating system is bothering the members looking for the easy money). Merit will provide the new opportunity to the forum to return to the old paths when people had something meaningful to say and actually had led a real and unique discussion and not just a copy/paste answers and questions.

Be unique and committed to the forum and Merits will come "alone"!

Lauda and his group are already abusing the merit system.Do it the same way since they claim its ok

https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=2829282.new#new

Exactly. It's a game of chances, luck, randomization from higher-qualitied users to lowered my users.

You can read all of the forum and majority of the merits are in the circle of higher ranks. The lower ranks receive merits just only by chance.

Although they are "high ranks", not all high ranks post quality posts. Some high ranks achieved their ranks shit posting for the sole purpose of campaigns.

Merits can be given by anyone who thinks a post is merit-worthy. No one needs explanation for giving merits. But some do abuse this so admins and moderators are keeping an eye on them also, merits are publicly announced so no need to be weary.

Merits would only be distributed to those low ranks who deserve to be merited, to those who high ranks deem to be merited.

Those who are in the Sr. Member, Hero and Legendary ranks still needs merits because as you suggested, those ranks will judge the lower ranks by giving merits. If they (Sr. Member, Hero and Legendary) run out of sMerits to give, how can they judge those lower ranks? It's a cycle, they can't give if they don't have receive any.

Yes.

No.

No.

If you are *really working hard to rank up*, you are doing it wrong and shouldn't be allowed to rank up to begin with.

No. The exact opposite will happen. If I can't receive merit, I would probably not bother giving anyone any. 

Sr. Member, Hero and Legendary do they need a merits? These rank should be exempted on merits systems instead they are the one who will judge the lower ranks by giving merits.

These could benefit the forum members as a whole;

1. Newbies that work as a spam will be controlled.
2. It will give an opportunity those newbies that really working hard to rank up in fair time.
    (I saw a lot merits just given to the the higher ranks which a post is not really worthy of a merit. majority of the merits just dwell in their realm. Lower
    ranks just gets the crumbs)
3. Merits will be distributed fairly to the lower ranks because higher ranks will not think of their merits anymore.

'Hope this post can get crumbs.'