Topic: Microstrategy buys again! (Read 672 times)

Checking the Bitcoin price is not that easy. Therefore, I think we should not be too afraid of this situation. In the past, people would get scared and sell their Bitcoins when a negative tweet was made about Bitcoin, but now it takes bigger events to affect the Bitcoin price. One company or one tweet cannot easily influence the price of Bitcoin.

The number of investors is increasing day by day and the expectation that the Bitcoin price will increase is also increasing. I know that people or companies purchasing Bitcoin at these levels will make a profit, and the investment they make during this period will return to them as a reward.

from 150k btc to 11 million pieces, that's still very far away why do you say that Saylor has half of the supply, I think other large companies or other retailers will not remain silent seeing this they will also join in and the more people who hold BTC then prices will be difficult to control because no one holds supplies in large quantities.

I think I'm also optimistic that Bitcoin can reach $100,000 by the end of 2024 if demand continues to come in plus factors like stabilization of risk assets, turmoil in the banking sector, and increasing profitability of crypto mining. Yes. Saylor the real man.

It's over-confidence, pride, and believing that they're in a position that they can't be wrong = hubris. Although, I admit that, personally, I don't know where or in what path Bitcoin will go, but when the white paper was first posted by Satoshi in a cryptography mailing-list, it was probably a pivotal event like that of a cave man who first discovered fire then went to his community to share the discovery. But Warren Buffett doesn't see it that way, it's useless, it's "Rat Poison Squared".

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Yes, most likely that is the case for Saylor and his MicroStrategy. I also don't think that he is the majority holder, nevertheless, it seems that he has the blessings for the board and their shareholders and they are just re-affirming the companies stance on Bitcoin.

For sure some of them might have been smelling profits already as we are in the last stretch of the year and entering 2024, we will have the block halving. And based on what we have experience many times, it is a catalyst for the eventual bull run that Saylor and others have been waiting.

Haha, I wouldn't be surprised if he did. But maybe he's just re-affirming his bullish stance on bitcoin to give investors confidence. Even if he intended to sell at certain price, he would not admit that publicly.
But it's ultimately a decision of majority shareholders (I don't think Saylor has a controlling stake) on whether they want to hold forever or sell at certain price target. The good thing is, any shareholder can just take profits by selling (a portion of) their shares, so they don't have to rely on MSTR selling its Bitcoin stash.

Even though Bitcoin's recent trading performance has been characterized by a lot of volatility, at least what Saylor did was a wise step because there were many previous questions about whether BTC would rise again after the price fell in the past. Yes. Hopefully things will return to normal soon and big waves will come soon and be able to change the expectations of everyone who previously asked about this..

I don't know, maybe because Blackrock is already big and trusted so people are calm about putting their money there, even though Blackrock is not much different from other companies that sell their services and make a profit for them.

It's funny and unbelievable when a veteran people can think like that. But, I guess this also has to do with their age . Maybe they are heavily attached to the old school and do not want to give too much effort on the newer ones because their body or mind can't handle it anymore XD. Younger generations tends to disagree with their statements. For us, modern investing or investments are much better.

It doesn't mean though that we are now disregarding the older kinds. We can still have them as way of diversifying, once we already have a sufficient capital. The smart investors they are talking about, competing in the same asset, are not a bad thing but it was a good thing actually because more demand means more increase.

It's probably because he has gotten VERY successful in his method of investing that he didn't believe that a new asset class, Bitcoin, would perform better in 10 short years than his DECADES of work.

Perhaps it's also because Bitcoin is changing "the concept of money", no?


Although I'm disappointed in what Michael Saylor said that "we don't need censorship-resistance", Michael Saylor will be written in history books as one of the greatest risk-takers that made it.

I believe him too!
All his beliefs, ideas, realisations and preachings which make sense are not going to change,
There wont be any other vehicle out there which will trump Bitcoin ^{for a very long time}
His Microstrategy stock is also a massive winner for the company, all based on Bitcoin.



I wonder how hard "they" are kicking themselves for not seeing what Saylor ^{and some of the OG's
saw/believed}?

They are digging themselves out of that anti-Bitcoin hole that they've now created with full force. I have never fully understood why Warren Buffett would be so decidedly against it. He can have his opinion, but his wording suggested that there is more to this. Did he suspect that this industry could be eating away at his so beloved financial industry? Was his goal to win some time for his banks to prepare themselves to then successfully embrace crypto?


I think that his voice loses influence among his shareholders because that is what's interesting here. He is the guy who combined with Munger is 192 years old and his shareholders are seeing this crypto industry grow by the minute, gain influence everywhere and the whole world and the investing youth is growing up with this stuff. Shares are losing appeal and I think it was Novogratz who said that when he asked his son what he is doing, the son answered "I'm sending my girlfriend flowers" and then Novogratz asked: how? Answer: digital flowers, emojis flowers! This is where everything is heading, whether one likes it or not. Bitcoin will be this standard investment among the younger people.

Microstrategy is one of those companies that could become the next Berkshire Hathaway (I am saying this with some exaggeration). But if they explode in market capitalization, what good points could Buffett bring up against their success when rat poison outperforms his value investment strategy?

But he probably should. There was a podcast that had Warren Buffett's partner Charlie Munger, and Munger said that it's more difficult to find value investments in modern investing compared to the time when they started their asset managing company. He also said that it's because there are more and more smart investors who are competing for the same assets in the stock market. He said the solution is = expect lower profit.

Perhaps the actual solution is to invest in the more volatile "Rat Poison Squared", no?

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Higher Volatility = Higher Returns

Saylor tweeted that he’s going to keep buying even when BTC breaks 100K. I believe him. I’m sure he’ll keep buying with every dollar Microstrategy earns.

That is the benefit insights of investing for the future with a valuable amount earns you valuable incomes.
Kudos to them and I believe this good news would definitely embed more corporative parties who are aiming for higher purchase for higher incomes to the risk taking table.
How wise it in cruel creative emphatics to creating wealths in corporation

People describe Blackrock as if its their own money when they will buy what investors put in and have confidence to hold.  ETF can be sold and bought daily, they dont even need to own it overnight its a trading vehicle for some people with tax advantages.   MSTR has the vulnerability imo that they aren't using BTC if they do just simply hold it they are a proxy for this ETF and probably higher cost in that purpose.  I always give the advantage to any company which performs the task most efficently, if ETF do get approved then MSTR must compete with that I presume. Theres an overlap with the customer base for this service basically.

This is a possibility and I think it will be good for Bitcoin. Just the news a lone will change the fate of the market forever. From what is happening around the ETF, it is looking like a lot depends on it at least for the short time, even though with or without it, Bitcoin will still maintain the beautiful future we all crave for.

It is my expectation that most of the ETFs will be approved and within the same period. I can only imagine where we are headed to in terms of the price.

I thought this was a thing of the past. But obviously if there are fixed fees of $20, then making low trades of $100 would be pretty silly. But if you wanted to invest say $10k or more, that $20 fee is perfectly acceptable.
I think most current trading platforms would have their fees much lower or don't have any trading fees (i.e. Trading 212), but they would be making profit on the spread instead.


What crypto are you talking about? You surely don't mean Bitcoin. In most of the cryptos, the amount of fee would depend on the size of the transaction, not on the amount being transferred (which is pretty much irrelevant).

Surely MSTR will be the party who is profitable if ETF is approved by SEC, they will get a multiple of profits from the purchase of Bitcoin who blindly every session, I do not understand why there are people like saylor, so confident with what is done, but in fact Indeed, he benefited from the management of the company's financial and strategy in carrying out the money in his glory.

This scenario will be more interesting if really ETF next year is agreed to coincide with the moment halving too, this will be quite crazy, and maybe we will find it difficult to get the price of the $ 20K level in the next cycle. IMO

As the price of Bitcoin increases, what Microstrategy is doing will become even more important. At the same time, what Saylor and his team say about Bitcoin will be listened to even more by others.

There are many people like Saylor and his team in the market and they are trying to encourage people to invest in Bitcoin. I think that as the price of Bitcoin rises, the discourses of Saylor and his team will be listened to more and their investments will become more valuable.

What will happens to MSTR stock if Blackrock ETF got approved? I wouldn't be surprise if blackrock buys equivalent amount of btc within few months microstrategy does. Also we need to keep in mind blackrock is not the only manager applied for ETF. So there will be a lots of competition to buy btc as cheap as possible and microstrategy will be ahead of them in this scenario.

That is questionable, the fees to buy a stock is still quite expensive, there are even places that does fixed prices, which means that you could buy 100 stocks of a company or a single stock of them and you still pay like 19.99 for example. That never made sense to me, but crypto is different, if you pay a certain sum, you are free to move money around up to a point, but if you want to move like a million dollars then you pay more, allows poor people to have easier time, they still pay a lot, these days like 20 bucks, but at least it's good that people who send more will pay more.

I believe that ETF may not be same, but if it is, then that means you get to pay 19.99 for a single or a million of them, that doesn't really make sense to me.

It must be nice to feel like the price of Bitcoin is just a coin to you, isn't it? It's different when you have a lot of money because you will definitely be rich in the future. While others like me are trying to save even a little.

But my majority are also alternative coins that know better if I will earn more in the coming bull run. Then one more thing for sure: when the bull run comes, the big whales who are now buying huge amounts of bitcoin will surely sell when they know the bull run is coming to an end. I expected that.

This would indeed be hilarious, but I think Buffett can't get around being connected to Bitcoin one way or another.

^SOURCE

Even if he still says that Bitcoin is rat poison or a gambling token, he is already implying that there is business to be made when he says that people won't stop playing the roulette wheel. As more and more banks will be heavily involved with cryptocurrencies and Buffett considers banks one of his investment targets, he will also be part of the game. If he still believed that Bitcoin is rat poison and he would never touch or get close to it, seems it doesn't mean he would refrain from buying stock in crypto-friendly banks that, by the way, outperform some of his major other investments.

It might be worth watching how MSTR price will behave if when spot ETFs get approved. I'd say there's a possibility there will be a temporary drop and the price could actually drop below the fair value, so potentially a good moment to buy.


Fair point, but I'd expect fees for the BTC ETF to be on a lower end, so if investors expect BTC to go up in a long run, paying small fraction of percent per year won't make much difference. On the other end, Microstrategy had some problems in the past with the profitability of their operations (excluding changes in the BTC value), so that's an extra risk that many investors might be put off by.

Haha. I was merely thinking it would be laughable.

Although, because Warren Buffett is a "value investor", he probably should invest some of their capital in MicroStrategy. It was $130.00 during January and it's currently $480.00, it's tracking Bitcoin, and it's probably not going to slow down. I believe as an investor, he should set his emotions aside and swallow his pride, no?

I’m sure some retail investors will prefer to own the ETF instead of MSTR stock. However, a lot of people may actually prefer Microstrategy, just because they have a revenue source so the potential is there for your holdings to actually grow, while with an ETF your holdings will forever be dropping due to the fund management fees (even though they are small).

Interesting question because MSTR stock just keeps rising. It is seen as a proxy
Bitcoin investment for and by people who dont want to or cannot buy Bitcoin straight.

If a spot ETF gets approved there will likely be migration from Microstrategy to those
spot ETF's but then again if indeed the Bitcoin price rises wouldnt MSTR stock rise too?

So maybe there are investors who will likely leave ther stock in MSTR and just invest
more in say a Blackrock spot ETF...

I'm pretty sure Microstrategy would make over-the-counter (OTR) purchases rather than just placing bids on exchanges, so the public wouldn't be able to see MSTR's buy orders. Not quite sure what do you mean by other users "completing the deal", but the general rule for the dips in price, after the purchase announcements, was that the market interpreted that as a confirmation of reduced buy pressure, which should have a negative impact on the price.

---

I wonder if the approval of spot ETFs will have any negative effect on MSTR stock price. The demand for their stock will likely to drop, but the increase in BTC's price could compensate for that.

Ys, Price appreciation in the digital currency market is a bubble and he Microstrategy's is also leading the expansion, another thing is that because the bids and offers are all displayed publicly, other users can jump in while the transaction is pending and complete the deal at a higher or lower price.

Would be a nice twist, but that's highly unlikely. Here's more on that story:
https://markets.businessinsider.com/news/stocks/warren-buffett-berkshire-hathaway-secret-stock-sales-gm-q3-portfolio-2023-11

The reason for them not wanting to disclose the "secret bet" is probably the fact that they are still accumulating and revealing that would drive the price up. It's not like they're trying to hide something because of being ashamed to admitting they were wrong on bitcoin. The secret bet will be made public eventually.

Why is he ashamed of his actions if he knows that he did the right thing by buying bitcoin. This is the problem that we are having all these rich folks comes out to the public and criticize bitcoin but they end up buying behind our backs and they won't come out to praise bitcoin. I think that Warren Buffet is a coward who can't stand on his ground to talk good about bitcoin and why he chose to invest in bitcoin, but can come out on critics on bitcoin. This is how many of them are, they are just envious of the technology behind bitcoin that it wasn't from them and they think that because they are public figures their fud will make bitcoin crumble but bitcoin has shown its potential that with these people or without them her increase in value has no comparison with other assets. This is how bitcoin has put him to shame that he doesn't have any option than to also invest in the latest fast growing assest for profit and a store of value since he is a business man. These people can mislead newbies who have plans to invest in bitcoin if they listen to their critics on bitcoin.

I believe anyone who trusts every negative thing said by Warren Buffett and others has yet to understand how rich folks walk and that's why it is good to always dyor.
I believe most of the Microstrategy Bitcoin holding is mostly an investment from the powerful and rich folks because they are looking for an alternative due to banks huge chance of collapse and the economy is also not looking good.

Warren Buffett, the "Oracle of Omaha" who said that Bitcoin is "Rat Poison Squared", has made an investment in a "secret stock", but because it's required to report their investments, he's begging the Securities and Exchange Commission to make the name of that company private.

Why does he want to make the name of the company private? I personally don't know, but how LAUGHABLE would it be for the Bitcoin community if that company is MicroStrategy.

 

I remember when on twitter he told Elon Musk to put some of Tesla cash into Bitcoin. He questioned its liquidity and basically a couple weeks later it was reality with their purchase.

What’s crazy is that MSTR never sold at the peak. Shows you how difficult trading can be not only for individuals but also for institutions which have billions riding on the deal.

Of course they are not alone and the support from partners who join makes them strong. Yes. they have a concept and direction that can convince other investors to join the band. The impact if they start buying means a lot to the market and many other traders. A real effort Saylor and the team for BTC. salute.

I just like the company because they know when to buy and how to accumulate Bitcoin at a lower price. This company might worth upto half of a trillion if the price of Bitcoin reaches like $100k. Microstrategy had been accumulating Bitcoin for a long time and till now that the price of Bitcoin is still around the $30k zone with a reasonable worth. If the price of Bitcoin exceed the current price and quickly reach like $50k, this will make the company worth more because they have already accumulated enough Bitcoin when the price was below $30k

For the past 2 weeks bitcoin has been able to stay above 30k but not upto 31k. There was so much tension if the prive will choose to go downwards but today the bitcoin price showed upwards inclination above 31k which is a good sign and build up to next year bull run

MSTR has been a huge name saving Bitcoin for some years. I have known them for this and at sometimes I began to think who was behind the company. MSTR buying at this time is nice because some years ago I have seen them buy even during the bull market. I didn't know why they did that.

I don't think is exactly in BTC to control any market or take profits and run

If you listen to the man talk he wan't to increase the value of his company and protect it against the dollar. Additionally it allows investors to invest in BTC indirectly that wouldn't normally be allowed to hold it directly.

Smart man

Yes Saylor really have that belief on bitcoin’s future price and purpose. I remeber back then that it became a meme with Microstategy that whenever they buy BTC, bitcoin’s price is going lower. It’s like their buying became exit liquidity of other whales. It happened when  it topped on 60K, war on ukraine, and last remember 2021. They might be in a red portfolio right now, but since they are averaging price, soon that it will start to rise up it will also reap much of % percentage and dollars.

The negative impact is intended if the review of the performance data table after MSTR announced the purchase of bitcoin, but some data also proves that one week after the purchase of bitcoin by MSTR also has the potential to increase to 19% in December 2020. However, the average review fell -2% not from the impact buying MSTR but the market is undergoing a normal correction after experiencing a significant increase in the period one week ago. IMO.

to be able to control the market, the nominal bitcoin that must be owned by Michael Saylor must reach millions of coins, so with the amount they currently have, it will be difficult for them to be able to control the market. but I also don't think that the news about the purchase of bitcoin that he did will have a bad impact on the price of bitcoin right now, this is proven by the fact that in the last few days bitcoin has consistently been around $ 29k+ to $ 30k+

maybe for the next few days the price of bitcoin will remain at the current level, when the $31k resistance is broken then there is a high probability that bitcoin will reach a high of $35k+

I'm also scared as well. Let it not happen that they decide to sell all of their bitcoin holdings at once when the price has skyrocketed. As the price of Bitcoin soars, it will be wonderful for them to be gradually dumbing their bitcoin holdings little by little. But regardless of what they decide, bitcoin won't still fall drastically despite that, even though any action taken by them will have a significant impact on bitcoin price.

All the bitcoin bought by Saylor and his team, their real goal will be to sell bitcoin for profit. That's why they bought all their bitcoin holding at the average price stands of $29,668.

Microstrategy really shows that they believe in Bitcoin even though it's currently bearish,
of course from institutional action we also have to follow it,
because most likely this is a sign that Bitcoin price can break the $31k resistance and head to $40k or $50k,
yes, hopefully will happened.

Institutional Investor Behavior like this is enough to fear that most of the other investors, especially if the purchase they make above the purchase price made by Microstrategy, I also sometimes feel afraid of what if this institutional investor goes bankrupt, or they slam the price of bitcoin?.

Even more not comfortable when microstratgy has a large number of bitcoin in their wallet from the total supply of bitcoin in the market, surely the dominance will change someone's view that bitcoin can be controlled by one party who has a lot of bitcoin, or it could be they manipulate prices in the period front.

Very good news from Microstrategy because the current Bitcoin price is still worth buying,
for the past 2 weeks the Bitcoin price has been able to stay above $30k and this is the second weekend,
if the Bitcoin price does not experience a correction or dump below $30k then there is a high probability of an uptrend will continue for Bitcoin,
but for altcoins maybe some.

Exactly. That's especially true where there are no BTC spot ETFs available (BlackRock's application got rejected yesterday, with SEC claiming the filings were inadequate). In such case, some institutional investors, who are not allowed to invest in crypto directly, can view investing in MSTR shares as a proxy for investing in BTC.
But I wonder what would happen if they scaled down their other operations and become mostly a Bitcoin holding company. Will SEC allow that?

There is that law of supply and demand. MicroStrategy is a large company and they buy large amounts of Bitcoin. This is the reason why people are feeling bullish. Yet there might be other factors that can interfere to the supposed to be growth of the price after the actions taken by the company. Just don't mind them if they care about MicroStrategy. Sometimes people are also bored and they speculate the life of the others .

MicroStrategy is buying Bitcoin not only at the bear market. In fact their recent buy price for Bitcoin is at $29k. I think they are only doing a DCA strategy where they follow a certain date and not a market condition.

It would not surprise me if some institutions actually want MSTR to these institutions can own Bitcoin indirectly. Basically owning Bitcoin is considered risky but if they buy MSTR they can own it indirectly. So this way they don’t need to worry about custody. And MSTR already was out for many years so people trust it.

The more people that buy MSTR the more shares they will issue and more Bitcoin they will buy. And the cycle will keep repeating over and over again.

If they continue that route, Microstrategy's stock price will be very highly correlated with the price of bitcoin. In a way, they could become something like an unofficial Bitcoin ETF. Which means shareholders don't necessarily have to sell bitcoins, that are held by the company, but instead, they could just sell a portion of their shares (or they could issue new shares).
I think the real threat is not them dumping for profit, but rather them having no choice but to sell when Bitcoin's price goes dangerously down.

Since their average buying price is at $29k, they might start taking profit after the price reaches maybe about $40k or something, but that is just an assumption and we cannot know how long they plan to hold on to their assets, they might not have a plan to sell very quickly because they probably know that Bitcoin has got great potential and it can greatly benefit the company, that is probably the reason why they have bought this much.

About them having half of the total Bitcoin circulation, I don't think they will do that at all because that will need a very huge capital and they can probably not be able to invest that much in Bitcoin or they might go bankrupt and even if they don't that will be an extremely high amount to put on risk since Bitcoin's price can go down as well.

According to this website https://buybitcoinworldwide.com/microstrategy-statistics/ That track microstrategy DCA on Bitcoin. Their average buy price is $29,803 for their 140,000 Bitcoin aside from their previous purchased. They recent purchased is already their average buy price which means the current price makes them in profit and really very scary because we all know that they can take profit any time now.

Good news is they will not do this in bulk since the liquidity is not enough to absorbed all their holdings. They might wait for another leg up to slowly unload and wait until the new bull run cycle. It's dumb decisio for them to sell off their holding with the current price. Probably their last buy is to encourage retail to buy more to fuel the pump and use them as exit liquidity.

I wouldn't be so sure about that, because even though the SEC has rejected any such request in the past, companies like BlackRock or Fidelity are a whole other story and can't be ignored so easily. When you say that they can sell at the end of the next cycle, then I guess you mean investors who will actually get the opportunity to buy shares in a fund that will buy BTC for them and keep it safe. I think that some will sell sooner, some later - just as today people trade bitcoin on a daily basis, some are satisfied with 5% profit, others are not satisfied with even 50%.

No ETF will be approved soon, and even if it happens after more than two years, they may sell at the end of the next cycle.
MS will not be attractive to investors but there is no reason why it should not convert to an ETF.



how do they pay the price of Bitcoin, if it is from loans, then with the high interest and the time that passes, they will find themselves in a position of having to sell or liquidate some centers to provide liquidity to pay off the loans, to see how long they will continue to buy or even stop buying before selling.


The discussions in the main thread are in-depth and better, so it is better to lock this thread.

No surprise. After they (the board, whoever it was also in control of assets) didn't stop him from buying even more when he almost got margin called all those months ago, I fully expected him to continue in fashion.

I know it's not precisely on-topic, but I'm actually much more interested in how much Bitcoin the Norwegian sovereign fund added along the years. Been at least a couple of years since they made the news. Or did they sell at the 2021 peak?

Honestly they are not "that" much in profit just yet, it is merely a bit higher than what they bought on average. However, if the price starts to go high, like really high as we expect it to go, something like 200k, that would mean they would have 30 billion instead of 4.5 billion. I think that would be a big deal and would really cause a lot of trouble for everyone involved as well.

Not only they will have hard time selling, because the amount is so big that they may not be able to find a buyer right away and can't sell in a single place neither. But also it would be bad for us since it would drop the price a lot if they end up selling as well. Another trouble is the accounting, them investing that much and then selling that much would be a big deal as well.

Boss I am sure you have at least grabbed some that can possibly take care of your personal investment plan at an individual level,  MicroStrategy as an institution has accumulated a lot of bitcoin over time,  even though their strategy of operation has not been advantageous in bitcoin mainstream adoption.


I am sure all investors have some elements and features of greed in them,  and even if the micro strategy has become one of the institutional adopters of bitcoin,  their support level has always been poor towards bitcoin,  but all the same, since the micro strategy has not sold any of their bitcoin holdings,  it points to one thing,  which is a scarcity of bitcoin even though at present they're already in profits but refused sell.

That's right, I really don't see the point in the fact that every time MS makes a new purchase we have a few new threads. In addition, it should be pointed out that @fillippone well noted that MS could find itself in an awkward situation if the SEC approves an ETF which we talk about a lot these days.

This will definitely hype up the market now for sure. They bought a huge number of Bitcoins, and hence the demand also increased to hold the coins. Now they have already done this before and have know the true potential of Bitcoins, so yes now they again bought the coins and will hold it for long term. They are surely waiting for high price, and accumulating as many Bitcoins as they can in the meantime. Surely something big is coming and we can feel the vibe of it. Let’s see if they are buying more coins or not.

It is important for institutional investors to buy bitcoin so that bitcoin can cross a certain limit. Microstrategy continues its purchases. Maybe there are others like Microstrategy, but they buy in secret. I don't know this. Many people say that these companies can negatively affect the price of bitcoin when they sell, but the point I want to draw attention to is that if these companies try to do such a thing, be sure that there will always be another buyer. Because we are talking about Bitcoin.

You have a valid point and they will take profits when the market is bullish so at that time we also won't be surprised if the Bitcoin price decreases, how deep it really depends on how they take profits, if they do in one transaction, of course, it will make a decline which is very deep but I doubt they will do in just one transaction because it could be that they will also be involved to make the price go up and down until they get the targeted amount of profit.

I don't agree to this, if that's true then are you saying the news on BlackRock acquiring bitcoin spot ETF has been what led to the recent surge in price that we arrived at $31,000 if all these are true then what we could all have been looking after is to set a target on this institutions and wait for them to buy or sell including other whales holding bitcoin and the entire market will looks being manipulated.


They are not holding upto one Fourth of the entire bitcoin in circulation, take a look at the ones with Satoshi himself, Hal Finney, El-Savador, BlackRock, microstrategy itself and many other investors regarded as whales across the world and the numbers of individuals holding bitcoin in their own capacity, could we actually say something about microstrategy that much in deciding for the market value of bitcoin if they hodl or sell.

That's a good point, it's unlikely that they can dump it all at once but there can be a point in time when they'll sell the majority of what they're holding and that's a very plausible thing to happen.

I agree, was it Tesla when sold some BTC that they bought? IIRC, that was them or it was another company that has been publicized to buy a lot of Bitcoin but during the bull run, they didn't mentioned they've sold until the bear market came.

It's obvious that they will have at some point sell some of their stash to make a profit, that's inevitable, even average joe will do that in a heart beat. But since they have deep pockets, I doubt that they will see it right away or at least in the next bull run. They are going to hold as long as they can before selling it.

Of course the market will have to be affected when news comes out that they are going to sell.

Just like when Tesla sells before, the price goes down, but just like anything else, bitcoin is so resilient that it can stomach this kind of huge sells and the market go back to normal in the next couple of days or weeks.

Relying on one class of assets will not lead to a healthy growth in the company's investments. Whoever invests $4.52 billion will inevitably sell, but the question is how long can they hold out without selling, and will they wait until the value of Bitcoin is very far away.
The average purchase price is $30,000, and for the price to reach $300,000, we may need more than 10 years.

I suggest that we start by asking what will happen to Bitcoin if they decide to sell or if they have a problem.

Exactly. I'll tell you that when I saw the headlines in the media about MicroStrategy's new purchases, the first thing that came to mind was, 'Oh no, does this mean it's over? Are we at a local peak and facing months of decline ahead?' because it's hard to deny that Saylor usually hits local tops.

Microstrategy has been impressive with the amount of BTC they’ve been able to acquire. They will no doubt be one of the richest companies in the world if Bitcoin does continue its meteoric rise. There are a lot of advantages to owning Microstrategy over an ETF, and I only with I would have grabbed some when it was at the lows. The future could be quite bright for them.

Certainly it must involve several brokers with sufficient cash liquidity reserves. It's impossible to liquidate all at once, the more they stockpile, the more difficult it will be for them to determine profit scenarios.
And I don't think they'll use the same way again to make public noise, say they have to sell 10% of the holding then at least the market will react and on the next sale (if it's near) the risk won't get the same return value.

What is different about this buy is that he actually bought at the bottom and not at the top as usual. However what is concerning is that it seems he was the only buyer which made us peak at $31K, it wasn’t blackrock buying bitcoins for its spot etf.

Seems they raised this money by selling shares because in the past he would buy extremely little amounts.  But this time it was a huge buy and was mostly done thru sale of common shares.

We have a topic dedicated to discussing Microstrategy investments in Bitcoin, you can update the news in that topic so that the discussions are more quality instead of creating a new topic with each purchase.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/microstrategy-buys-250m-in-bitcoin-calling-the-crypto-superior-to-cash-5268108


Microstrategy is an interface for buying Bitcoin, as the company does not manage real investments other than Bitcoin. As noted, their average purchase of Bitcoin is $29,668 and their profits do not exceed 1% according to today prices, so with investments of 152,333 btc, this company plans to invest in the long term and every purchase in the short term will not It affects the price.

Daily Bitcoin trading volumes greater than $347 million were purchased in several batches between April 29 and June 27.

Yeah, just saw it on my twitter as well, that's huge buys, but we haven't seen the price moving along the way though.


They will not get their profits at this stage, they are still accumulating and just like the rest of us, the profit taking should be in bull run. So I wouldn't be scared though, it's just normal for them to make and take the profits just the average joe investors. That's how bitcoin market works, but the good thing is that we can also do that if we see a new all time high in 2024-2025.

Microstrategy is in no way an indicator of anything or a significant enough force to control the market, so I see no reasons to care about what it is doing. They have been buying when the bear market only started, and it didn't help to reverse the course or stop the fall.

The last market cycle was driven by institutional adoption hype, somehow I doubt the next cycle will have the same hype, because people will look back and say "that didn't work in the end".

While it is an interesting move that we've been used to see them do, what if the time comes that they won't have to hold forever and just like us  they need to take profit from it?

True.
They have got more influence now to the market and this is like the actual whales move whenever they start to dump or someone following them monitors that they've been dumping it but not likely this time, may not be the right time but soon there will be a time for it.

Yes, and its just in fact the reality on which to those people/companies/institutions who do have the money would be always be having the advantage on which they would really be trying to accumulate as much as they
could in likes of Bitcoin on which we know that they would really be diving in into those things which would be giving out those opportunities on making more money. Microstrategy is really that wise on taking up such space and accumulating while we arent still in a bull run.Its true that it would really be giving out that kind of scary feeling that if these giants would really be loading off their bags then for sure it would
really create a huge long red candle in the market which is something that it is about to happen.

This is why im not really that getting shock anymore if lots of institutional investors would really be diving on Bitcoin space and would be accumulating as much as they could since they could really be able to see
that there's really a benefit or money on this space and this is something that they dont really like to miss out.

Instituitional investors are the ones that have the ability to push the price in a particular direction as either to pumo it a also dump the price when their decided to cashout their profits, take micro strategy for example.

Their current bitcoin holding is enough to make a price impact if their decide to take any action, even if it doesn't have a long term effect on the price it short term impact will definitely be felt.

This is the reason why the call for institutional investors have been un the rise because as it have it postuve advantages on the market so there is also few negative impact on the market also, is vis visal.

Its scary if they started to take profit from this, well this is how rich companies do nowadays, and those who holds more can have a great power and influence in the future. This might be one of the reason why the price pumps, and hopefully it will start from here. If they will hold half of the Bitcoin supply, that can be more scary for sure let’s see what’s their real goal for this one.

Saylor and the team did it again. This time they bought 12,333 btc for around $347 million (between April 29 and June 27), increasing their total holdings to 152,333 btc ($4.52 billion).
The total average price stands at $29,668, according to Saylor's tweet:

https://twitter.com/saylor/status/1674025857063571456

Couple of related press hits:
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-28/microstrategy-s-mstr-saylor-makes-largest-bitcoin-purchase-since-prices-peaked#xj4y7vzkg
https://u.today/microstrategy-buys-12333-bitcoin-local-top-for-btc-price
https://www.coindesk.com/business/2023/06/28/michael-saylors-microstrategy-now-holds-over-46b-worth-of-bitcoin/

You would think that this is bullish news, but, according to Coin Desk, Microstrategy's purchase announcements tend to have negative (short-term) impact on the price.
https://www.coindesk.com/markets/2023/06/28/microstrategys-bitcoin-purchases-tend-to-be-short-term-negative-for-prices-research-shows