Topic: Microstrategy rug us again? (Read 645 times)

You are mixing institutional hedging strategies and speculative trading for retailers. Institutional investors, especially such as MicroStrategy, Circle, Tesla, GrayScale will never use short-term strategies with bitcoin, because they are not buying bitcoins for this purpose. Institutional use bitcoin to hedge risk, to store value. If they used short-term strategies to buy and sell bitcoin, you would never see bitcoin at 69,000 this year, because bitcoin would behave the same way as during the 2017 pump, when bitcoin was bought up by speculators.

Rug? I think this word is only used by the real scammers so I don't think rug is the right word to use on this scenario and I also don't think that it was their fault on why the price goes down but it can only be a coincident like you said. They are in fact helpful because they counter the dump that happen and if they didn't buy the price would have fall much deeper. MicroStrategy is our friend. They can be called as a whale because of their ability to buy and sell at a higher price but they are more on the buying side.

A true whale on the other hand are the ones that manipulates this market. They sell and buy to confuse everyone but often times they sell to create fear and panic.

Michael Sailor is a bit of shady and we should not be surprised.
It's how his business is done - by speculation.
Trade, sell, make profit.

It doesnt look like he will sell all BitCoin. BitCoin is at a very low price right now.

To imply that we have to blame Microstrategy for a possible downturn in the price of Bitcoin after the said organization announced they just bought a large sum of the said asset does not make sense...what it implies is that actually Microstrategy is not manipulation the price because no buyer of something would want the price of what he bought to go down immediately after. The fact is that the market is not reacting to Microstrategy all because we are already used for this finance firm buying BTC from time to time taking advantage of the dip...so this is not another a new news. In fact, we should be thanking Microstrategy for the continuing trust towards Bitcoin and for not selling yet their hoards.

Michael Saylor is Secretly Selling His Bitcoin and Doesn’t Want You To Know.
Check here:
https://cryptowhale.medium.com/michael-saylor-is-secretly-selling-his-bitcoin-and-doesnt-want-you-to-know-98b2f3f84320

I found this article, what do you think about this?

It's funny to blame institutions like Microstrategy. If the author knows the Bitcoin cycle then actually blaming it is not true. The Bitcoin market is running in the Bearish period.  Market saturation, investors waiting for each other and poor global economic conditions caused the price of bitcoin to fall. Of course, if you look at the current position is an opportunity for us to have bitcoin at a cheaper price. Luna's purchase as a reserve asset for stable coins also has no traction. While Microstrategy of course I think is a business strategy then I consider it reasonable. I honestly feel happy because the institutions of large companies are increasingly believing in Bitcoin. We are only told to be patient because many people are sure that a new ATH will come.

The fact that Microstrategy keep on accumulating it buys on bitcoin does not have anything to do with the current bearish, i don't understand why people work by assumption theories that are not real, the company is just opportuned to be among the bitcoin whales just as others, what i expect people to talk about is possibly on the next halfing coming up 2024 and the consequence of the last one on the economy, another thing to put into consideration is the bitcoin supply rate which is the functions of the hash rate across the globe, this are the possibilities to consider other than speculating on Microstrategy bitcoin purchasing power.

TBH, I just don't know why people are blaming these institutions for the downfall of the price of Bitcoin.
Yes they bought many Bitcoins but that doesn't mean that we will always blame them whenever prices fall.

I'm leaning more on a coincidence than blaming somebody especially huge constitutions in the price decline of Bitcoin. At least next time, don't blame companies whenever prices goes down and vice versa because they aren't the reason to it.

Honestly, speaking I dont understand your whole point why you accuse the Microstrategy announcement as the reason why the Bitcoin price sharply fell down based only on buying announcement for me that's crazy, and why the price would be affected if that announcement was positive because it's buying, for me it's not related and I think there are other reasons why the Bitcoin price fall sharply on that day and definitely not because of the buying announcement from Microstrategy. that's my opinion about it. 

I suppose it's just a coincidence, even when Kwon announced that he would hoard bitcoins, the price of bitcoin seemed to drop and everyone assumed it was a manipulation to hold a buyback position but I said  are not.  If bitcoin is in a position of lack of consolidation, FUD news could generate negative sentiment to push the price down.  The suspicions for Microstrategy are legitimate but to me it is lame and completely unproven.  There are more reasons for the price situation to become pressurized i guess

I want to believe that it's just a normal correction. We've seen the recent pump of the market and it has to be stopped because it's too rapid.
I know too that whenever the market goes on the dip, there's a likely that they've been silently accumulating as much as they can. It won't be a surprising news if there's another article that they've just bought the recent dip.

unless they are physically buying/selling to cause actual price changes. then they are not manipulating the price.

whats more of the case is lots of other investors trying to predict the market reaction to news.

in short. the paradigms of old wall street trading habits/practices dont exist o bitcoin economics and because of the randomness of traders these days its not possible to plan the intentions of traders.

yes silly wall street drone/idiots want to turn bitcoin economics into trend following boring wall street economics. but bitcoin is steps ahead of those silly old games.

yes in the wall street days they were like robots, all just following the trends like sheep causing pumps on hype announcement. but individuals these days like to counter those sentiments and be preparing for the opposite. which is why bitcoin is not like wall street trading of the silly 'trend' patterns

but here is the thing.
the initial thought is when someone says they are buying large lumps. the sentiment is that everyone gets excited/confident to buy. and so lots of investors buy because they think everyone else will also buy.
BUT
the secondary thought is that when an announcement occurs lots of investors think these 2 scenarios play out.
a. those that jumped at the hype jumped but didnt get the pump they were hoping for and the correction then led to them selling quick to get out quick.
b. a large announcement usually means the buy happened already long before so the pump period is already finished with so people dont buy in as they know the hype is over before it began.
thus people are preparing to sell at an announcement not buy.
BUT
the third thought is that people know there is just as much chance of a buy pump as there is a sell dump after an announcement. and so they just do nothing.

I don't think that in this case I'll call it price manipulation by MicroStrategy, it appears to confirm that there are many players of which MicroStrategy is just one. If your observations are accurate, it directly means that more people sold their BTC and the buy-in from MS is inadequate to cause an upward price movements.

Institutional investors will have a strategy when they make any decisions, i doubt whether they are long term investors, they might be having a portion of their asset for the long term but they will always play the short term strategy and when they plan on selling off the coins in the open market they can plan on placing a short call and that way they make double of what they invested and i believe this is how they are playing in the market rather than dragging the market all the way down.

they cant help themselves. leave a steak next to a hyenna. 100% of them guaranteeed will take the steak. the same is with hindus and paperwork fraud. the primal instinct for hindu is to steal without physical threat. they 100% without variation or exception commit fraud.

so has microstrategy committed fraud without physical threat? absolute 100% guaranteed

Perhaps artificially whales manipulate the price so that such as Microstrategy are purchased at a discount price. Maybe it's just a correction that coincided with the purchase of a whale, no one can predict the price of bitcoin, even in the short term.These guys will soon buy all the bitcoins)

That seems to be a little too much of a blanket statement to possibly be true, but I get your point.

every company on earth with hindu/indian executives commits fraud

Peter Schiff is on Twitter accusing Michael Saylor of using his company's purchases to inflate the Bitcoin price so he can sell his personal stash at massive gains and buy back again lower to rinse and repeat.

https://twitter.com/PeterSchiff/status/1518014645960904704

This is extremely concerning if true, but not surprising at all.  This is the sort of manipulation that Wall Street has been doing for generations.  Michael Saylor is no different.  With Bitcoin he saw a chance to enrich himself and he jumped at it.  Now we all get to watch as he plays games with Bitcoin to get himself an insane amount of wealth and the Bitcoin community cheers him on as they're used as puppets in his shell game.  Gotta love it.  In it for the technology right?

the cofounder of microstrategy is Sanju K. Bansal  indian/hindu. of course they commit fraud

based on some few observation, it has been noticed that anytime microstrategy make purchase announcement then just go ahead and short for some few profits and exit. i dont know maybe its a coincedence or something but this is how it has been noticed to mostly happen with his announcement.

You need to experience what a rugpull is to truly understand its use. What could've happened at the time won't be far from price correction, nothing more. Perhaps when Microstrategy bought, certain whales felt it could be an appropriate time to dump in order to cause panic in the market. They often do this to create an atmosphere of panic sale and thereafter buy back cheap from weak hands. We see that pattern often. Yet investors still fall for it. How would they crash the market immediately after investing. It's not logical. Contrary to what OP thinks, it's far from rugpull. It's correction.

And it is is not really difficult to see why, just because one whale does something like that it does not mean that other whales are doing the same thing, when people think of the term whales they think of them as a monolithic group that move together and this is not true, so while a whale could buy bitcoin and maybe even express their belief the price will go up in value, another set of more powerful whales could believe and do the exact opposite without communicating with anyone, decreasing the price in the process.

Most people usually look forward to a bullish turn up on the prize whenever a whale makes an announcement that they have invested in the market, but from my experience so far in the market I haven’t really seen that happen. It doesn’t work that way. When they invest, it doesn’t have any effect immediately on the price of Bitcoin.

Moreover, I don’t think that Microstrategy would invest in Bitcoin and be wishing for it to decrease in price after they have invested in it. So, it doesn’t have anything at all to do with Microstrategy. That’s just how the market works, and it is currently bearish this time.

I also follow the news about Terra (Luna) and I don't I won't have to know what they said about being of the highest Bitcoin holder but I misunderstood what the above user was saying because she put it in a way that the company is planning to buy Billions worth of Bitcoin at once and that the reason why I said they only accumulate 200Million worth of Bitcoin to their purse.

The market is really high volatile in recent times .We have seen many ups and downs .I think Microstartegy has plan that how they will invest and what they will do in next .I think there is nothing here to manipulate .They have enter on the market as made their plan and go through .We know crypto market is high volatile and anything can happen in the market .We have seen huge bullish when ant positive news published and also we have seen market fall a bit even when there is any positive news .So i think we need more times from now to judge the market where its really going .

I also agree the possibility is just a coincidence.  MicroStrategy has accrued multiple times in the very early 2020s so far or earlier, but I don't see any reason if they buy accrual for a false impact on value.  As many people think it is a trap.  But I think Bitcoin's accumulation trend is very popular, Terra also bought more than 5k BTC in total during this consolidation trend.  This is seen as a larger cumulative move in competition with Microstrategy.  On the other hand, I think it's a FUD from the Fed that the market reaction creates naturally.

Yeah, that is correct, the announcement they make is not coming immediately after they have invested in Bitcoin. It is possible that it can take some time before they announced that they have invested extra money in Bitcoin.

This is not the first time that I am seeing such a thing happen in the market, there have been other times that I have seen an announcement about an institution investing in Bitcoin and the market didn’t make any move to reflect that a huge investment has been made. So I can’t really explain it, although I would say maybe it is because the Bitcoin market is huge now and can’t be easily moved by such news.

That is the way many traders, especially newbies, think, and even if we were to concede and accept that explanation even if it is not true then why they do not do something about it and become investors instead? After all if the short term movements are being manipulated by the whales at almost every instance then why not just avoid it and invest for the long term? The truth is that deep down they know their explanation makes no sense and this is just a self-defense mechanism so they can avoid admitting they are not good traders.

I don't consider that a rug. I think short term investors taking profit. Bitcoin can't go up all the time. We needed a small dip to go futher.

That's is the behavior of the market someone needs to sell for someone else to buy , 42k was my price target from my analysis , the price deep was not a surprise to me 42k is an order block zone that the market needs to retest before further growth. From my trading experience , for every institutional play in the market, they always have to sell to buy. Expect market reversal soon.

Its simply a coincidence, the news of Microstrategy buying more bitcoin is good news for the market and not any manipulation. Their buying bitcoin and then bitcoin suddenly dropping in price if they are deliberately manipulating the market it is not in their favor at all.

Since Microstrategy entered the market they are trying to accumulate as many bitcoins as they can, they have not made any move to sell any bitcoins.

I agree, there are already a lot of memes about this on Twitter. Where every time Michael Saylor bought Bitcoins, their entry is always underwater for some period of time.
So this could be a coincidence again, it's like a curse? lol.
I really don't see any manipulation here as the act was bullish for Bitcoin.

Have you been following the news lately? Actually, this is not a rumor anymore as this has been hitting the headlines for the past days, and people are even following the wallet's activity. It seems Terra will indeed buy billions of dollars worth of Bitcoin. The plan is that Terra will buy a total of at least 10 billions in Bitcoin for the next 3 months as a reserve asset of their UST stablecoin. Accordingly, the purchase would be done by tranches of 125 million dollars per day.

They don't have the responsibility to give us anything, whether a good or bad signal. What they're telling us shouldn't mean anything if you're a long term holder.
But if you're someone who trades daily, that's really big info that you should consider with your trades. Besides, these pumps and dumps that has happened, it has come from the price under $40k so even if from $47k down to $43k, the price is still high when it had dumped a lot.

I don't see any rug from Microstrategy and thats if you noticed the time of Bitcoin accumulation, they always buy when the market posed bearish momentum.

I don't know where you get the rumor but there's nothing like Terra (Luna) buying a Billion dollars worth of BTC but checking your post history you appear to have more hate for Bitcoin than love.
For your information, Terra only bought some Millions worth of BTC but they promised to be the highest holder of BTC in the future.

It's really a problem for someone to look at the chart and see that things like this happen all the time, and that it has nothing to do with someone buying rather insignificant amounts of Bitcoin compared to total daily trading. People should already understand that Bitcoin is on the open market and that people sell and buy when they want it and how much they want it. So if someone decided to buy a villa, a yacht, and a Lambo while selling a certain amount of Bitcoin, should anyone blame him for that?

Considering the past two months, the price is more than stable and maybe even above expectations given the overall situation.

Just look at the charts without this news, we are clearly seeing the same pattern repeat itself and it is not a sharp drop by the way.
Price keeps going up to new highs after the bottom (usually close to $45k) tries to break it while suddenly a lot of dump takes place that prevents the breakout (aka market manipulation). This has already happened 7 times in the past month or so.
Now check out how many times some arbitrary purchase took place by some arbitrary company...

They are spending their bag full of money into bitcoins but the thing is they are investing at little dips and you can also see the average price is far less than the current rates.The btc is volatile asset and it's normal for it to go up and down so if you see the charts closely you will find prices sliding between $45-$47k range from few days.Saylor is having vision and investing in btc and want profits out of it which is possible in bull run only so they also want it.

The market is unpredictable but this is not the first coincidence, it happened a few times in the past. After the microstrategy announced buying more Bitcoin immediately the price will drop in the short term so OP has reason to be skeptical. It cannot be said that microstrategy is manipulating the market but the coincidence raises many questions.

Not to mention that we should probably stop using the 'rug pull' term for literally almost everything. Price drops? Rug! Development delay? Rug! An exploit happened? Rug! Like what the hell lol.

Probably it's just a coincidence but I noticed as well that it's not the first time that Saylor says he bought a ton of bitcoins and, after a few hours, the prices has a correction. I can't explain why and I don't think there is any kind of manipulation, maybe it's just bad luck...

 they are probably selling futures against them to make yield. thats if they even have what they claim. no way you could buy billions of bitcoin, with at most 3 coins total for sale at any ask price, without adding massive increase in ath.

 im getting real sick of all these assholes claiming they made billions while btc crashes all year and the economy goes to hell and inflation raged. saylor is a fucking piece of shit telling people to sell their houses to fund his bags of this fucking piece of shit bitcoin

Is it just that you are being overly suspicious? I feel it is also one of the normal news, when we are standing in a different position looking at the big investors. It is really just a matter of doubt. I'm still basically seeing this journey to being the most money this organization is building. It's similar to my current thinking with this market buy more if you can.

I think MS has proven that they are making these bitcoin purchases with the intent to hold. MS has not sold any bitcoin since their initial accumulation.

So to put their company name and 'rug pull' in the same post isn't really backed by anything.

Hey man! You need to revise your way of reasoning. As already explained to you:



That Microstrategy buys Bitcoin to shoot itself in the foot and drive the price down after buying is the most outlandish theory I've heard in a while. You have to think beyond: "one thing has happened after another several times, therefore one thing causes the other."

rumor was terra luna was buying 10 billion in btc. I think people who use the word billions in conjunction with buying bitcoin are full of shit. What volume? Who did you buy it from. ALl I see is less than 1 coin available at most times, so I think most of these nigs are full of shit

The price of Bitcoin has been playing within $44,000 and $48,000 for the past week so any sharp rise and fall within this area is not really surprising and might not be something that is brought by a manipulative whale. But, you know, the price has always been affected by large day or short-term traders who must be making the most of any significant rumors and news. So the rumor that MicroStrategy will be buying once again must have led them to make orders. The same goes when the news of the actual buying hit the media pages.

It would be great if one of those bitcoin billionaire promoters who lost so many people money over th last year was killed aat the conference, matbe a whole bunch of them. I can only dream

Not sure, but this could just be a coincidence?

Maybe there is some people trying to manipulate but it doesn't make sense for Microstrategy to play the market since they have a huge investment already. So as a investors, you wouldn't want to have the price goes down after you purchased BTC. But there is a possibility that someone might be taking advantage of the announcement and trying to make a profit out of it.

I believed in plain simple strategy that earns small but super consistent and reliable. 

For Microstrategy to rug us, they would need to convince us to buy more Bitcoin, and then they would sell. But even that is not "rug" in a classic meaning of this word, because Bitcoin is a legit asset and not a project created for pump and dump. I fail to see how Microstrategy is manipulating the market if they only buy and never sell. Unless you have a proof that they sell on some OTC platforms or in other shady ways.

Must very spike or drop in the price of Bitcoin be linked to some whale buying or another rich guy shitting in a toilet?

People who know markets also know that there is always an uptrend and a downtrend. A price of an asset can't just keep rising and rising minus any correction or else it starts to look like a Ponzi scheme (well, even Ponzi schemes collapse... eventually - Read Bitconnect)

One of those reasons or factors on Bitcoin sharply declined or, just a coincidence.
The market behavior was always like this and besides, we're still lucky because the market pumped for about 4 days and then the correction has occurred, together with the news of Microstrategy which also contribute to dragging down the price too much.  But now, look at the market, it seems it will resist and the price will increase again.

Whatever reason, don't look at the market by hours or by day, it makes you frustrated and results in panic selling, just aim for long-term holding while at the same time making a profit.

Good scalping strategy these days will give you good profit.
But one should know that one wrong move and all those accumulated profits can be wiped out.
We don't know who or what is contributing to this up-and-down movement.
We can't attribute this trend from one institutional investor only because we also have no idea about their strategy.
Just keep your eyes open if you are heavily invested in this market. There are too many factors that are contributing to this market.

It's more like selling on the news which is a normal market reaction. There are still uncertainties with the Russia-Ukraine conflict that's affecting the global market so expect more people to quickly take profit when there's an opportunity even if it's just 10% or less.

when people are looking at the hourly, daily or weekly charts.. PLEASE stop getting emotional

also when looking at these temporary events of hourly movement stop trying to pretend you know economics by using terms like 'bull' or 'bear'

true bull and bear runs, last for quarterly-multiple years..
bulls and bears are not terms used for hourly/daily movements

if you cant say dip/spike, hype/correction or up/down when referring to the temporary stuff. then you will grow a migraine trying to fend off all your animals in your head you think are running at you hourly

if you are wishing to stick with animal references. call the temporary dips/spikes something like calves/cubs (small bulls/bears)

It could very well be a coincidence. Also when Microstrategy announces their bitcoin purchase, it's not the same time they have purchased it. The purchase could have taken place much earlier than the announcement. So I don't see any other reason other than coincidence.

Also it is negative that a single company is buying so much of bitcoins. It's not good because they will have a great power over the price will be able to drive it according to their requirement. That's not good!

I'd say it was coincidentally and the price drop was just a reaction from a very volatile asset. I don't know if there is manipulation from Microstrategy at all in this scenario if they did then they should have waited to get that drop before buying thousand bitcoins. Have you compare the past buys of MS and the market reaction? If it indeed the same then it might not be a coincidence.

If there is a whale manipulating the market and forcing it to go down after MicroStrategy makes a purchase then you know it cannot be MicroStrategy, after all it does not make sense for them to buy bitcoin if they knew they will make the price to go down after it, it would be a better strategy for them to wait until they manipulated the market and then buy, so I think that you are just looking too much into it and this just a coincidence and nothing more.

The market drop isn't that big. It looks like the regular fluctuation in the market. People coincide the regular market movement along with the buying of more bitcoin by MicroStrategy. If this has made some disturbance in the market same as Elon Musk made, then we can connect the market drop along with the buying. People always think in such a way that massive holdings will drive the market and the same is happening now.

It's not a coincidence but either someway people think it’s bad or manipulation. Each time they announce of buying BTC, price goes down a bit usually. It should be up but going down. I don’t know why but people may think of it as bad because of someone getting more influence in the market. Maybe people are evaluating in that way lol.

Also saw this news that Saylor bought bitcoins again. On the one hand it is very positive news, because if they are buying, there is bound to be growth in the long term, they have never been wrong. But it very often happens that after they buy, the bitcoin price goes down in the short term. Basically, we can expect that now to buy some bitcoins as well!

I've found a "sharp drop" only when zooming in to 1h or less.
The price has fallen back to the awful value we had at midnight. I am surprised you survived the price we had 4 days ago...

No. For now it's a dip for ants (Bitcoin price can easily change even 8-10% per day, now the overall is -1.30%) and I advise you look at the charts set to daily. It would benefit your hearth and your sanity on long term.
About manipulating - everybody who can earn a dollar off manipulating the market, will do it. And a lot of whales go by "buy the rumor, sell the news"; well, they've just "sold the news" (the whales, not MicroStrategy)

On long term, compared to what is that Korean guy planning to buy, this is really small.
Bitcoin price will keep going up and down. Manipulation may or may not be involved. Try to stop panicking because of that.

Think about it. Would it make sense for them to want the price to drop, literally just after pouring 200 million dollars? Wouldn't it make more sense for them to want the price to drop before their purchase?

Something something correlation is not causation.

If it only happened once then it might have been a coincidence.

I doubt microstrategy are doing market buys and just pushing the price up however most of microstrategy's announcements of buys have been near a downturn so maybe that's what people are expecting - this mightve just been part of a dca or an evolution of their strategy to match the market.

Bitcoin sharply drop after Microstrategy announced they purchased a total of 4167BTC. The price is building a bullish momentum when the price drop coincidentally after the announcement. This is not the first time happened that involves whale company announce positive new while price moves in opposite way.

Does this institutional investors manipulating the price or traders is just using there news as a negative signal?