Topic: Miners are getting jacked for 15-20% of earnings!!!! (Read 3439 times)

While I agree that prop pool miners are losing money to hoppers (how much is subject to debate).....

this has gotten far enough off topic as it is.

Whatever I have made my views on how you did do the namecoin in secret and you did do it in secret perfectly clear and I see you still feel fully justified in the way you did it. So you have a good one just don't expect people to forget what you have done in the past when you or other people try to re-write history.

And you got the nerve to talk about inventing shit...

Bullshit he never told anyone he was doing the merged mining just did it like thief in the night, no one had time to prepare for anything when it was done in secret. Then once done it took well over week to get the coins paid out as in his unseemly haste to scam the coins he had no payout method in place costing people well over third of the value of their coins when the flood of coins on the market had already taken place. And you got the nerve to talk about inventing shit...

Why not be a man and just come out and call BTCGuild a cheat

Do you honestly want to start this little game up again ? Why not be a man and just come out and call BTCGuild a cheat, rather than point to a controversial thread, then fill up your 'friends bandwagon' with Tycho ...? Can't you stand on your own 2 feet without needing to get someone else on your side ?

While we are re-hashing old crap, Care to talk about the beginning of Namecoin Merged Mining ? .....how about it, there, 'Honest Abe' ?

Slush, you are a coward.

Yes, I have the evidence (well, it's stats, so nothing is 100%) that at least me and deepbit are honest (at least from the view of stealing blocks): https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/btc-guild-has-4-efficiencystalesfee-problem-48889

why just large pools?
do you have evidence than pool X is 100% honest - if yes, then make a whitelist...

jkminkov, can you be please more specific? Do you have any evidence that any large pool is keeping his blocks for himself?

jkminkov, can you be please more specific? Do you have any evidence that any large pool is keeping his blocks for himself?

Any evidence for this?

I'll explain it to you like you're a five year old... we'll see if that helps.

Ok, jimmy... you see it's like there is a really tough puzzle that has to be figured out and when it is, everyone gets paid a portion of the total work for their efforts.

But there are some bad kids, jimmy.  These kids have figured out that if they only help right at the beginning, statistical averages mean that they will earn ~(this means approximately)20% more than by working on every puzzle till its done.

You see sometimes the puzzles take a long long time and are very difficult.  So by focusing only on brand new puzzles, they increase their chances of hitting a lucky one.

So instead, we're going to calculate a certain number of points that are a different class than the points you earn.  These points will be used to calculate your share and they will be based upon the amount you worked on the LAST puzzle.

This way, when bad kids want to play at your puzzle, since he wasn't there for the last puzzle, he won't make any money and he'll cry.  This is because when you add up the loyalty points and earned points, while the total scores amongst all the players that play every round will be proportionally equivalent , the bad kids score will be less.  If it is a very short round, it will be much less.

That way everyone that likes working hard will make more money!

Isn't that great jimmy?  Now run along and stop being such a fucking idiot.

No, your math is incorrect, basically because you didn't considered hashrate change. Again, there was a lot discussion about it and, honestly, I trust Meni's calculations much more than yours. You obviously DIDN'T read his paper, so please do it and stop spamming here. If you want to continue in the discussion, please open separate thread. I'm sorry that I'm angry, but I'm little tired of such "smart guys" entering the discussion in the middle, without reading the papers, math and discussion history.

Well, perhaps, but those hoppers didn't do the sometimes 4 hours of processing on the server that we did in order to get a shot at a fresh block.

While we're slaving away at calculating that hash...they're off trying to get more than their due many other places.

Anyway, I can solve the problem with a relative degree of ease.

You create another class of shares called 'loyalty shares'.  You create a number of shares equal to the estimated share count at 5 minutes with current has power.

You distribute loyalty shares proportional to the payouts on your last block.

So...

Two things...

1) Pool hoppers would be fucked. (their margins would be reduced to tatters.  If they happend to hop in on a 2 pool that closed in 2 minutes, their share would be super miniscule due to the loyalty shares.

2) It would ease attrition on long length blocks because folks wouldn't get the loyalty shares if they bailed.

This way... instead of your most loyal folks getting shafted in short rounds, we'd end up doing the best.

Doubt this will help you out either... but here are some numbers that prove that miners are getting jacked for 15-20% of earnings on blocks shorter than 12 minutes. on average.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AhhejNMzWwx8dGpYZE9FYXk3d05MQjVDNUxLcHNXZkE&output=html

It proves that either A) pool hoppers are doing better than your massive brain thought they could... or B) for some reason slush is stealing from us, but only on short blocks.