Miners cheat with stale shares? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Refrumatrix

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Quote from: JayDDee on April 16, 2021, 08:20:05 AM

Quote from: Bravehash on April 16, 2021, 03:25:33 AM

If people can't cheat with stale shares then why is the pool even talking about it? Moreover are other pools paying for stale shares? That's where I'm confused, stale shares should be abandoned but why paying for stale shares on Hiveon pool?

It's a marketing gimmick. They are the ones cheating users that don't submit any stale shares.
It rewards bad behaviour by mining software by encouraging submitting known stale shares.

I already have some ETH on Hiveon pool and I don't know they are this bad but what I noticed is low mining rewards, I'm getting low truly compared to Nicehash, this is why I always find my way back to Nicehash because my payout feels more complete

JayDDee

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Quote from: Bravehash on April 16, 2021, 03:25:33 AM

If people can't cheat with stale shares then why is the pool even talking about it? Moreover are other pools paying for stale shares? That's where I'm confused, stale shares should be abandoned but why paying for stale shares on Hiveon pool?

It's a marketing gimmick. They are the ones cheating users that don't submit any stale shares.
It rewards bad behaviour by mining software by encouraging submitting known stale shares.

Bravehash

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Quote from: adaseb on April 15, 2021, 10:39:26 PM

Stale share just means that a block was already found and your software submitted the share after the new block was broadcasted. Its a bigger issue for ETH than BTC due to shorter block times.

Can you cheat with stale shares? No because when you send the hash to the pool, the pool verifies whether its a valid share or not. Impossible to cheat this way. Most likely they don't want people submitting too many of these because some pools give you credit for stale shares while the pool reward stays the same. Hence its not good if there are too many stale shares submitted by people.

If people can't cheat with stale shares then why is the pool even talking about it? Moreover are other pools paying for stale shares? That's where I'm confused, stale shares should be abandoned but why paying for stale shares on Hiveon pool?

adaseb

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Stale share just means that a block was already found and your software submitted the share after the new block was broadcasted. Its a bigger issue for ETH than BTC due to shorter block times.

Can you cheat with stale shares? No because when you send the hash to the pool, the pool verifies whether its a valid share or not. Impossible to cheat this way. Most likely they don't want people submitting too many of these because some pools give you credit for stale shares while the pool reward stays the same. Hence its not good if there are too many stale shares submitted by people.

batsonxl

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Quote from: Hotdog Vendor on April 15, 2021, 10:42:59 AM

Im still new to mining and only got basic stuff atm but Ive been trying to figure out stale shares for ages....
I hope I not doing anything wrong.

With Phoenix Miner and 6800xt on Ethermine it says I get 18-20% stale shares on the miner but when I check the logs on website its always way less like maybe 3% or lower.
I just use clkernel 0 since thats all I can get to work. Is this something I can fix?

On my other PC I have 3070 and 1070 Phoenix miner almost never reports any stales (maybe less then 1%), logs on website maybe show 1-2% normally.
I got 2 more 3070s coming one day.

Also Ive tried a few pools with the 6800xt but most of them are worse, Im in Australia so theres really no good ping servers.
Ethermine asia thou I get 160ms share returns so I just have to put up with that. us1, us2 same most of time but at times got 600ms returns so just stick with asia now.

160ms not best ofcourse but acceptable. try not OC 6800 too much. i dont have 6800 but it looks like something wrong with mining there. Read what phoenix says about it, it is new card and may need some specific driver. Maybe you have latest driver which can be problem. Dont hurry to use new drivers just give a time for miner developers to adapt miner for new driver. And follow people who used it.

JayDDee

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There's no way to cheat with stale shares. If it's accepted by the pool then, by definition, it's not stale.
Submitting too many shares that are rejected for any reason just triggers the pool's DDOS protection.

Hotdog Vendor

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Im still new to mining and only got basic stuff atm but Ive been trying to figure out stale shares for ages....
I hope I not doing anything wrong.

With Phoenix Miner and 6800xt on Ethermine it says I get 18-20% stale shares on the miner but when I check the logs on website its always way less like maybe 3% or lower.
I just use clkernel 0 since thats all I can get to work. Is this something I can fix?

On my other PC I have 3070 and 1070 Phoenix miner almost never reports any stales (maybe less then 1%), logs on website maybe show 1-2% normally.
I got 2 more 3070s coming one day.

Also Ive tried a few pools with the 6800xt but most of them are worse, Im in Australia so theres really no good ping servers.
Ethermine asia thou I get 160ms share returns so I just have to put up with that. us1, us2 same most of time but at times got 600ms returns so just stick with asia now.

XUR_TIP

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Quote from: FP91G on April 15, 2021, 08:07:11 AM

In practice, I have not met any complaints about blocking accounts on the pool for this reason. If you are a respectable miner who has been mining for a long time and does not cheat, then you will not have any problems.
Any statistics of payments can be tracked on the pool, and if your result is doubtful, then no one wants to lose their money.

It sounds like you are using Hiveon pool, I got scared by their pool FAQ that stated that once your stale shares reach 5% you aren't going to get paid at all and I'm already at 2% lol so I stopped mining on the pool and switch to another, im sure you have stale shares, have you reached 5% before? If No what are you using for internet connection ??

FP91G

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In practice, I have not met any complaints about blocking accounts on the pool for this reason. If you are a respectable miner who has been mining for a long time and does not cheat, then you will not have any problems.
Any statistics of payments can be tracked on the pool, and if your result is doubtful, then no one wants to lose their money.

Gorosden

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If you are using smartphone hotspot stay away from Hiveon pool, if you are using modem 4g stay away from Hiveon pool, sooner or later you will reach that 5% minimum stale and your address will be blacklisted, this is why I don't use that pool

BitKongy

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Maybe, since hiveOS is paying those with stale shares maybe some people are intentionally creating stale shares? Who knows, cheaters are everywhere this days you know

Zotak337

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Is it possible to cheat a pool with stale shares? The reason why I asked is because of Hiveon pool rules, if you have more than 5% stale shares your wallet address will be freeze until further notice

Topic: Miners cheat with stale shares? (Read 275 times)