Topic: Miners Should Consider the Lower Transaction Fees (Read 731 times)

The sole purpose of this thread is this. But I was attacked from all angles though it is good because I have seen different ideas. But this days the transaction is coming down again to the way it was. Though the fee is still high compared to the first time I started the bitcoin journey. safar1980 there are some exchange platforms that charges higher. Busha in Nigeria charge high and other exchange which I know. It is only well known exchange that charges small to attract more customers.

There are no large trading fees on centralized exchanges, and Bitcoin users will transact as long as it suits them.
And the growth of commissions is influenced by a large number of tokens in the bitcoin blockchain.
But it is good for miners, so problems for users give profit to miners.

A few days ago Bitcoin transaction charges were almost normal but lately Bitcoin transaction charges have increased a lot. Those who need to trade small amounts of bitcoins will not be able to trade bitcoins at this time because the transaction fees for small amounts of bitcoins will be very high. If people can't transact Bitcoin properly then people will move away from this coin and show more interest in coins with relatively low transaction fees. So Bitcoin transaction fees should be somewhat normal for everyone's convenience.

to the op we miners DONOT set the fees  We only Eurn the Tx  

heres how it works

Who controls Bitcoin transactions?
Bitcoin does not have a central authority. The bitcoin network is peer-to-peer, without central servers. The network also has no central storage; the bitcoin ledger is distributed. The ledger is public; anybody can store it on a computer. Leger known as blockchain

from forbs this year  

Why is my Bitcoin transaction fee so high?
The increased demand for Bitcoin's block space led to the corresponding rise in bitcoin transaction fees. The blockchain backlog got so congested that the crypto exchange Binance paused withdrawals for almost two hours on Saturday, May 6. And this may only be the beginning.8 May 2023

from bitcoin.com  
Does bitcoin charge transaction fees?
Bitcoin transaction fees are paid in bitcoin and Ethereum transaction fees are paid in Ethereum. As you'd expect, simpler actions have smaller fees while complicated actions cost more. Additionally, different blockchains have lower or higher transaction fees for similar actions

if you whant plain english read this ------> https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/fees/ it gives a brakedown of the process  and it clearly points out that We miners DONOT set the Fees its the User (sender) who sets the fee  exsample if i wanted to send 2 dollers woth of bitcoin to my other bitcoin adress from my bitcoin core wallet i am promited to set a tx tx = transfure fee  if i set the tx as 0.000001 btc witch is varry low miners will look at it and deside it ant woth it and wont touch it  becose 1 it isnt enuff to cover the cost of power we face in the form of a power bill  now if jo blow sends the same amount of bitcoin ie 2 dollers werth but he offers up a tx of 0.00090 btc Miners will look at it and take that tx why becose it higher but igf a big time person sends the same ammount ie 2 dollers werth of btc but offers up 0.001 btc The miners will take that insted as i said you can read the prosess witch is found at https://99bitcoins.com/bitcoin/fees/ that brakes down the bitcoin process

that would be $ 3.18 a tx

the only thing that would hold it in check would be LN

And to completely blow your mind a pool can white list whatever tx they want to.

Ie a large pool say ant pool makes 25% of the blocks.

If they want to they can whitelist only tx at 2 sats a byte

or 54 sats a byte now it sounds crazy as to why they may want to.

They could block the tx's by refusing all but 300+ sats a byte.

Now 1 pool with 25% is not enough to really kill off all ex's but the top 3 pools could slow the chain down bigly.



Between whitelist and black list those pools

Could wreak havoc with the tx fee structure.

Just think if the top 5 which have 83% of the hash set blacklist of all tx under 50 sats a byte

miners won't switch from them cause 50 sats a bye = 50 x 2 mill or 1 btc a block

anyone remember the power opec had over oil prices well the fees of blocks could well be like oil and those top pools could blacklist any tx they want .

50 sats and up could start tomorrow.

so 50 x 227 = 0.00011350 btc would be lowest amount for a tx

It's added to mempools because it's a valid transaction, and 1 sat still = money as miners as concerned, so they keep you in the queue until they are done with the higher fees, unless there queue is full, then they will kick you out.


Use a proper wallet to solve this issue, many wallets are terrible in estimation fees by either underpaying or overpaying, I have yet to see a wallet that does that perfectly every single time, I don't transact much so I can't give any reviews of what wallet is best in the "auto-estimation" part, I know exchanges will over charge you to be on the safe side, but wallets, I would just use one of the mempools like https://jochen-hoenicke.de/ or https://mempool.space/ to see what is everyone is currently paying, how many transactions are paying x and decide my own fees accordingly.

There can't be a standard sat/Vbyte forever, it all depends on what people are paying now if there are only 3k transactions paying 100 sat/Vbyte, and then the rest are all paying 10 sat/Vbyte, it would be plain stupid to pay 100 sat, those would clear in 1-2 blocks and then the 10 sat/Vbyte will go through, all this calculations and estimation need to be done manually or by trusting that your wallet is doing it right (not making you pay way more than you could get away with and not risking your transaction to be stuck for days).

It's almost impossible to guarantee a transaction to be confirmed in the next block or two since people can outbid you, which is why using RBF is a must just in case shit hits the ceilling.

If it were possible to set a mandatory fee for all transactions, then it would be possible to spam the blockchain by creating large queues of transactions in the mempool. And if you need a fast transaction, then you must set a high commission so that the miner agrees to process it first.

Thank you very much for the comprehensive explanation of the argument here. But I still have some questions. If 1sat/vByte is useless as you said because you have seen 100 sat/vB why the 1 sat/vB is added to the blockchain since miners will not mine it for the person because it is too small. Why? Why the 100 sat/vB can't be set as the standard sat/vByte for the transaction process so that anyone who is making any transactions will know that that is the minimum standard and if the person will like to increase the fee then that is for the best for the person. So why?  I understand everything now but just want to clear on that part. Thanks

The fee estimation is rather accurate tho, and lower than what it tells you is probably going to be purged, when the average fee is 100 sat/Vbyte and someone broadcast a transaction of 1 sat/Vbyte, why should I keep that on my disk, to begin with? I have limited capacity and computation power, I need my mempool to be as small as possible, filled with the highest bidders, you send me a 1 sat/Vbyte I will get rid of it right away, so will do the others, this way, your wallet might be showing pending confirmation where in reality none of the miners sees it, it's stuck forever.


I want to clear up some terrible misunderstanding here, the ETA and STATIC only exist on your wallet UI, in fact, most wallets don't even use those terms, but whatever, miners don't see that, they don't know what wallet you used, they also happen to not care about all that.

Every miner has his own mempool (another general misunderstanding by the majority of people thinking there is some called THE mempool), as a miner, how do I fill my mempool? people broadcast their transactions from all different locations, wallets, and exchanges, now let's assume you use Electrum wallet, and your wallet is connected to a node, when you create the transaction, and sign it, the wallet will tell the node about your transaction, the wallet node will tell the nodes nearby, the node nearby will tell the next wallet, so you broadcast a transaction from Calrofina, my node (as a miner) is in Singapore, it eventually arrives to my node, I then have to check it against the current transactions in my mempool which can only have store 10 transactions, but the block is limited to 2 transactions for an example:

now despite the fact that it's my own mempool and I fill it how I like, it's probably identical to 99.99% of the other mempools that are owned by other miners, not because we know each other, but because it's only logical to do the thing that gets you the most money.

So now, comes your transaction paying 1 sat, given that my mempool is full, I won't even store yours, I still have 10 pending transactions that need 10 more blocks before I run out of transactions, your transaction which I don't know where it came from or how it got it's 1 sat fees, is just useless as far as am concerned.

Ok if I could store 1000 transactions, I will do this


but then a new transaction is broadcasted paying 11 sats per Vbyte, what will I do? I will delete yours if I have no space left, bring the priority of every transaction 1 bit higher, and put that 11 sat on top.


All of this happens without knowing what wallet or settings were used, I just know how much every transaction is going to pay, and that's all that matters as a miner.

This is actually a very good explanation on how miners will decide which transaction a miner will include! It is just basic economics and will always stay like this. Of course it is not true that the miner is really forced, but he is forced by economics and his energy costs.
What you also need to consider is, that the bitcoin mining protocol was specifically made like this. There would have also been the possibility to set a fixed fee, but this would force people to pay a lot even if their transaction is not in a hurry at all.

If you are an engineer and maintain equipment in the house.
Residents in the house want the engineer to come to them earlier, they will pay 50 dollars for the service, while others are willing to pay only 5-10 dollars. You won't service $5 orders when there's another $50 order nearby, and miners won't because they have credits, taxes.
They are forced to take the most expensive transactions.

If miners consider the lower transaction fees, won't the mempool be even more abused? Imagine, some people make transactions with high transaction fees and mempool gets clogged, then miners decided to choose transactions with low transaction fees and here again, some of those abusers started to spam network with low transaction fees and it gets clogged in both ways, so, high or low fee doesn't matter, it's clogged. What should people do who want to get transaction confirmed asap? High transaction fee makes no sense, low transaction fee makes no sense because it's abused too. This idea sounds good until you deeply think about it.

No, they shouldn't unless you want competition from cheap spam


Yeah, nice in theory, so damn bad in practice.
You say that low fees will drive adoption but there a few problems with it, if adoption means more transactions it means more transactions in the mempool, it means longer periods you have to wait for your tx.
The miners will not benefit a dime from it since even with mass adoption and billions in fees they will still be forced to include low fee tx, so they will earn still less than they would now by accepting high transaction fees.

I'm quite surprised to see that there are some who hint at thinking that imposing a flat fee of 1 or 5 sat/b might be a solution and suddenly the laws of mathematics will change and everyone will get their tx. No, it won't mean that,  it will only mean that if a larger tumbler or exchanger will drop a shitload of transactions for 2, 4, 12 hours the network will be paralyzed and nobody will be able to get a tx no matter how much they are willing to pay. And this is just setting the stage for the cheapest and dumbest 100℅ chances of success spam attack.

We all know that the job of bitcoin miners is to verify and add new blocks to the blockchain. How will they do it? Of course they do this by solving complex math problems. And once a miner solves it, it receives rewards.

      And when a user or bitcoin holder wants to make a transaction, their request will be taken or go to the Bitcoin network and here within this network comes the important role of a miner. And whoever is the first miner to solve the math problem first gets the rewards. In short the fees come from users making transaction fees.

* https://www.javatpoint.com/role-of-bitcoin-miners
* https://river.com/learn/how-bitcoin-fees-work
* https://www.bitpanda.com/academy/en/lessons/what-are-transaction-fees-and-why-do-i-need-to-pay-them/

Miners are not responsible for increasing the mining fees. It is the wallet owners that increase the transaction fees hoping that miners would consider transactions with higher fees over transactions with lesser fees. They miners only look for and validate transactions with higher fees which is a network rule.

Though, I'm still new in the space and this is my first time of experiencing it but from what I have read this is not the first time the bitcoin network is been faced with high transaction fee issue... It's just a matter of time, and I believe this too shall pass.

There are so many wrong things with your statement.
1. Term "Mempool", "Static" and "ETA" refer to name of the algorithm to choose TX fee on Electrum wallet.
2. Miner don't care which algorithm you use to choose TX fee. All that matters is transaction fee rate (sat/vB).
3. The reason transaction which created with "Static" fee took long time to confirm is probably you use default/lowest value which is 1 sat/vB.

You are incorrect again, i have been replying objectively, what you have been told by most members in this thread is objective facts about how mining works, it has nothing to do with their thoughts or ideas.
And you have also been told how how miners add TX into a block, it does not have a thing to do with the fee estimation you used, though fee estimator helps you choose the fee rate for quick confirmation. TX fees, network congestion, and vMB space available in the block, these are what miners put into consideration before adding a TX into a block. I don't know why you continue to repeat this when you have been corrected on it.
Whichever fee estimator you use, you can surely adjust the fee slider and choose your own fee rate. Even if you use static, just check https://mempool.space/ and adjust the slider to the fee rate for high or medium priority for your TX to be confirmed faster. Your transaction was stuck because you used a low fee rate and the network was congested.
You have been told throughout this thread how miners proritize transactions they add to a block. So this discussion should already be in bed.

The whole discussion here is just understanding, we have not really getting ourselves well on the topic, we are all interested to bring out our thoughts, ideas and the ways we think that should be. Okay let use see the topic again. ETA transaction is within the day, sometimes is within 3 to 6 hours all depends on the congestion of the block but the transaction fee is something else. It is very high. That is why I was saying that, when they are Mining the high transaction fees from the ETA they should also put in mind on the transactions on the static queue. Even if it is 20 to 24 hours at least there will be hope for the poor.

You are using the ETA fee estimator, if you change it to Static, you will be able to move the slider to 1 sats/vByte, but when you use ETA, your wallet software will suggest the best fee rate that can get your transaction added into the next mined blocks based on how congested or free the mempool is. So if you want to move the fee rate to as low as 1 sats/vByte, change it from ETA to Static, and use https://mempool.space/ to choose your priority.

Take note that the total amount in fees you will pay is based on the size of your transaction. On estimate your TX with fee rate of 21.4 sats/vBye will get your TX in a block within 25 blocks, so if you change it to Static and use a lower fee rate, you may wait longer and even have to use rbf to bump it.

Even though you can control the fee rate in the Electrum Wallet to the lowest part, the fee is still high. And if you take it to the middle part, they will even warn you that the fee is too high. Look at the lastest fee rate in the Electrum Wallet.

That amount of the transaction fee is still high for small amount of transaction.

In Electrum you can set the fee rate you want to use, that is the sats/vByte, you can also check in https://mempool.space/ to know the fee rate to use if you want your transaction to be confirmed quickly. But the exact TX fee you are going to pay depends on the size of your transaction, that's why you may want to consolidate your inputs when transaction fees are low, so that when the network is congested as it is now, you will pay a lower TX fee. In your electrum wallet you will see the transaction fee that will be deducted once you choose the fee rate you want to use.

Oh Yes, I was wrong in what I mentioned, thank you for correcting what I said, we are the ones who set in which we choose lower or higher fees, I accept the error if mentioned at this point.

      But at the moment I can't see in Electrum how many sats fee rates will be deducted, because last week when I transacted with Bitcoin the fees were around 12k sats, I hope this week it will be lower.

No Bro and welcome to the harsh world I mean that is obvious to approve the high transaction fee first if miners approves a lower transaction then there would be no High transaction fee out there.

Although if you have pool or free tx accelerator you can still get approved with low fee, although I think mixed fee would be okay but I don't know would be approved by community like in one block 85% of transaction filled with high fee and rest of it filled with low fee I think this is a good idea

There are five major pools those pools can do as they please setting fees.

Me as a miner can pick one of them but they set the tx they white list not me.

Ie

binance 7%
viabtc 9%

f2pool 13%

antpool 24%
foundry 29%

https://www.blockchain.com/explorer/charts/pools

look at the list

So they make 82% of the days blocks.

If I don’t pick one of them I could go days with out income.

Your gripe is with the pool owners not the miners.

only viabtc offers a free push for a stuck tx and you need to have done at least 12 sats or maybe 10 sats a byte. to push it.

So as a user of btc you need to know when the mempool clogs and then be sure to make a tx of 11 or 12 sats and then use viabtc to push the tx.

also if you think you know btc how bout the guy that spent 400 sats to rush his tx you want to fuck him or her or he she or it .

You should be asking why doesn’t every pool over 20eh do what viabtc does.

Then 82% of the blocks made could be pushed for free if they paid 10-12 sats a byte.


Wait a few ½ ings this will be worse unless LN is done perfectly.

some rich fucker is looking to do that. I will look for the link.

And i hope you also now understand how miners prioritize transactions, they are not censoring transactions with lower tx fees, there is a fee rate attached for high, low and medium priority transactions. If Bob creates a transaction and uses a fee rate for high priority, while Alice creates a transaction and uses a fee rate for low priority, the chances of Bob's transaction being added to a block is higher than that of Alice's, it doesn't mean that Alice's transaction wouldn't be confirmed and added to a block, but she will have to wait, and if the mempool is congested and there are more people outbidding Alice, her transaction will be pushed further down. If Alice is tired of waiting though, she can use rbf, cpfp and transaction accelerators to get it confirmed faster.

How? Please put more highlight on your point of the argument. Do you really understand the OP before make your point or you just saw the topic and made your comment to complete your weekly quota? My guy if you understand the Op and the previous commitments made by me with others you would understand that I am not talking about who set the transaction fee or whatever. I said again and again and lastly but not finally making it clear that let the Miners should consider the lower transaction fees in the Mempool on the blockchain, as they are Mining the higher fees they should also mine the lower fees alongside with the others. So I don't know where all these Miners are not setting transaction fees, they are for business. Aba.

That make sense why centralized system always has  fixed fee + "X" % variable fees when you are doing international transactions and in some cases local transactions. They had improvised the whole payment system with the time no doubt about it.

When it comes to the miners, well the market is entirely your own imagination due to it's decentralization. Though they have invested heavily the investment could have certain ROI so taking into that consideration one can always keep the fee structure of "Y" fixed fee + "X" % variable fees. This way not matter how small transaction is, it can have rightful fees. It will also help miners to predict their ROI considering various factors such as fee collection amount, their mining hashrate and expenses etc.

Hope so someday there will be solution like this.

Every business man is in pursuit of profit and you don't expect them to reject a period of inflows of profit when it arises. From how I see it, it's not even the miners that are the cause of this transaction few hike that currently determines the period or duration for any transaction to be completed. It's rather the senders of the transaction that are determining which transaction the miners should attend to immediately by the amount of fees they attached to their transaction.

Just like the invisible hand of market that's exactly the case with crypto transaction delays and fast transacts right now. It's no fault of the miners.

That would make miners feel worse, not better, it would certainly make you feel better, but sure thing is, miners couldn't care less about how anyone else feels.


So what? someone outbid you and got their transactions confirmed faster, you do that almost every time you transact bitcoin, your wallet checks pending transactions, sees a dozen of them paying 1 sat/byte, sets 2 sat/byte, and your transaction is confirmed in the next block, those poor folks have to wait for your transaction to confirm first before they could have theirs confirmed, you didn't feel bad about it, did you?

And people transferring coins should also pay once in a while my electrical bill, wouldn't that be fair? 

There are 1000 topics with 1 million answers on what happens when the block reward is gone so miners will survive on fees and everyone says the network will be secure, there won't be any problem, and the miners will be happy with the fees, but when briefly for 5-10 blocks the fees hit the same level as the reward everyone as saying they will not pay that much! How is this going to work?
Do you want cheap transactions and a system that requires billions for an attacker to even try damaging it? You can't have both!


If miners would consider low fees based on let's say the time of the tx, which is not really a reliable method but let's get with this:
An attacker will simply generate 500 000 transactions, and pay a little over 3 cents per tx, that's $15000 a day and the whole day miners will just mine his tx and nobody else's. So for half a million a month, you will make the chain unusable!


First, Bitcoin has nothing in common with socialism, so the whole charge of the rich more and giving the poor for free is simply not doable here.
Second, If I make a tx in which I spend out of 1 BTC 0.0005 for something and the rest goes to a different address of mine, not the changed address, how am I going to be taxed? For the whole 1 BTC or for the 0.0005?

Sorry but BTC is the perfect example of a free market where the law or demand and offer are set in stone.
If you want progressive taxation, use Western Union!

The result of bitcoin transaction fees now is cool because things are gradually getting back to normal. The high transaction rates from a week ago are no longer present. With your crypto wallet, you can now perform a transaction for as little as $2 and have your bitcoin delivered quickly and without much wait by specifying the fees byte you want your bitcoin to be transacted on. I pity those that have their bitcoin transacted at high fees a week ago

Since you only understand part of the explanations... I'll try to simplify things a bit... Mind you, this simplification is not 100% correct, but it does give you an idear of what's happening when you press the "send" button in your bitcoin wallet...

Creating a transaction is basically letting your wallet software creating a piece of text saying:

You then sign this piece of text using the private keys belonging to the addresses that were funded with input AAAAAAAAAA:1, BBBBBBBBBB:3 and CCCCCCCCCC:9

As you can imagine, the actual size of the text (the number of characters) does not depend on the value of the inputs or the outputs (it doesn't matter if you send 0.00000100 or 1.00000000 bitcoin when it comes to the size of the text)... The size depends on how you write this piece of text, on the number of inputs you use and on the number of outputs you generate (the more inputs/outputs that need to be specified, the longer the text and the more characters are being used).

When a miner is selecting transactions for the block he/she is trying to solve, he makes the sum of the value of all inputs and substracts the sum of the value of all outputs. In our case, that's (0.25 + 0.05 + 0.01) - (0.1 + 0.3) = 0.01. This 0.01 is called the "fee". A miner solving a block is allowed to add one coinbase transaction to the block paying the block reward to his own address, but he can also add the sum of all fees of all transactions he puts in a block.

In times of mempool congestion, the miner starts making a jigsaw puzzle: he tries to make the sum of all fees of all transactions in the block he/she is trying to solve as high as possible. He can do this by prioritizing the transactions with the highest fee per byte of transaction data. Like we saw above, these bytes of transaction data have nothing to do with the value!!!

A miner can only add 1 Mb of "actual" transaction data in one block, and up to 3 Mb of witness data (in our example, this basically boils down to 3 Mb of signatures. This isn't always true, sometimes the signatures also need to fit in the 1Mb). This is why people outbid eachother... The higher the fee per (v)byte of transaction data, the more incentive a miner has to add your tx to the block he/she is trying to solve, irregardless of the value you wish to transmit.

Each 2016 blocks, the netwerk adjust the difficulty, making it easyer or harder to find a block, making sure the average time between two blocks is always ~10 minutes. Combined with the fixed size of 1 Mb of "actual" transaction data, you can see the network can handle about 6 Mb of actual transaction data per hour, and there's not much we can do to change this without creating a hard fork. So, it's either waiting or outbidding others... You can optimize your transactions a little bit, but there's no magic bullet. Asking the miners to pick transactions with a lower fee basically isn't going to happen. They made a lot of investments, and they want to earn money...

rbf, cpfp, paying tx accelerators,... are all basically tools to let you increase the fee you pay to the miners in one way or another... They help, but you could/should have payed an "optimal" fee to begin with... The only silver bullet might be owning or being friends with an administrator of a HUGE pool. They can increase the priority of your transaction for their pool (there's no guarantee their pool will solve the next couple of blocks tough). Transaction broadcasting services or people that promise to "mine" your transactions are scams... IF they cannot prove the own a huge bitcoin mining pool, there's not much they can do.

Wow! I am getting your part of the explanation but remain small which I will understand the whole transaction fee issue. Now if you send 0.01 BTC to Alex with the fee rate of 5 sats/vByte and I also send that the same amount of bitcoin 0.01 BTC to Favour with the fee rate of 30 sats/vByte and which you did the transaction before me but base on it that your fee rate is small and mine is big so they mine first before yours and if there is any other person who send again with high fee they would still mine the person own again and all these while you are waiting, and if you can not wait you can bump the fee but if you don't have coins to bump the fee again what will you do? So you are to wait for weeks. This is what I am saying, they should also consider the lower fees because they don't know what is happening from those people end. Most of them are even frustrated on this issue of waiting.  Well I understand you to some extent.

You do not understand how transaction fees work, miners do not look at the amount of BTC's sent, E.G right now if i want to send 0.1 BTC to Alice and i use a fee rate of 5 sats/vByte, and you want to send 0.01 BTC to Bob and you use a fee rate of 30 sats/vbye for your transaction, miners will confirm your transaction first, even though the amount you sent is smaller than mine. What miners look at before a transaction is added into a block is the TX fees paid, the MB space that is left in a block and how congested the network is.

If you make a transaction with a low fee and get tired of waiting, you can use rbf to bump the fees and get the transaction confirmed, or if you are sending to your own address you can use cpfp to speed up the transaction and get it to be confirmed faster.

I am not saying that they should not mine the whales first but they should carry along the lower transactions at the same time with the whales and that will make everyone feels better and belong but as it is now, the Miners are abandoning the lower transaction fee for the whales. Lower transaction fees are kept unconfirmed for days or weeks yet unconfirmed. And because of that I have cancelled two good transactions and each cancellation, I paid double of the transaction fee for it. And that means I have lost a lot of coins in this period. And I believed it as happened to other users too because of the waiting period is too long so we have to cancel the transactions.

Miners don't demand or set transaction fees, it is you the person who wants to create a transaction that decides and set the transaction fee you wish to pay for your transaction to be confirmed. What miners do is to pick transactions depending on the fee paid, the space remaining in a block and how congested the network is. If the mempool is less congested, a fee rate of 1 sat/vByte will be confirmed soon, but if very congested miners will prioritize the transactions that pay the higher fees.
If you check https://mempool.space/, you'll see that you can now even get you transaction confirmed fast with a fee rate of 27 sats/vByte, and there is < 250 uncomfirmed transactions in the mempool, so truly things are cooling off.

Literally speaking, we know the miners it is their way to make money from what they do once a user makes a transaction in cryptocurrency or bitcoin. That's why they made the mining fee universal. And honestly, there is nothing we can do regardless of the amount they demand in fees but to follow if we have no choice.

      I read something here on the forum, I'm not sure if it's true that it is said that on weekends, the fees deducted from Bitcoin transactions are lower. Then I also noticed that it looks like the hyped up in ordinals or brc20 is over, so I think everything will gradually return to normal, so let's see and wait for the result.

It isn't a must that a transaction will get confirmed, a transaction can be purged out of most mempools because it pays a very low transaction fee, this depends on how congested the BTC mempool is at that time. E.g Ordinals have caused serious congestion in the mempool for some weeks now, and this period if you use a fee rate of 1 sat/vbyte for your transaction, miners won't confirm it until it is either dropped out or the mempool cools off.

Because there are none left haha!  Not only have I seen/heard from any big-blockers lately, I'm not even sure Bitcoin Trash still exists (well apparently it does). But who uses it? What is at least single real-world use case for it?

Even this which you advocate here is status discriminatory. It's like saying whales transacting should be punished for dealing heavily as if being rich shouldn't be what we all have to look up to. Anyway, on a serious note though, we know all transactions aren't charged the same. A few years ago I came to realize that it's pointless worrying over transaction confirmations as they will eventually scale through, though late.

You are making a good point here. Regular CEX are probably still by far the largest interface to most people holding crypto - if they are getting used to Lightning that way it could indeed lead to a much higher adoption.

Thanks for the link - does it scrape the LN network by itself or how are the services reported to the website?


On a sidenote I was recently wondering if miners do have an incentive to slow down LN adoption / to lobby against it because it will ultimately mean a reduction in on-chain fees for them?

Here you can find list of services that support LN : https://lightningnetworkstores.com/

Credits @LoyceV

Also some exchanges do accept LN deposits but as you said as an average joe will just go by the traditional on chain to make their transaction.

To OP miners don't set the fee, we are the one setting up the fee for the transaction we are broadcasting and miners are the happiest when the network gets clog cause more rewards for them.

I get a feeling that if centralized services like exchanges allow LN deposits or withdrawals we'll see more people use that. I believe the average joe doesn't have enough incentive to use LN as of now since they rely on centralized services most of the time. I pay for some services with BTC (like VPN for example) monthly and most of them also don't use LN to accept payments, so that's that. Maybe I can try to look for one but there will be other issues like trust, unreliable downtime, etc. CMIIW.

Actually I am suprised we haven't seen more Bitcoin-Cash-gurus or other shitconers coming out of their holes and problaiming they have the ultimate solution yet.

I do wonder though, do we need more scaling discussions again soon? LN in its current state is not helping as intended - and larger money sum transactions will continue to be only available on-chain. I feel there are some similarities with the 2017 situation.

Don't make transaction on a "Money" system?  hold on has everyone gone thru some kind of time warp here and forgotten what Bitcoin is?

If people lose faith that they can't send there money WHEN they need to but need to "wait" because of what is just spam all be it paid for spam on the network?

What if someone needed to make that urgent transaction for medical care but was priced out because of what has been added?

We have lost a use case that was our primary from day one. Money.

Money don't wait for JPEGS and Shit tokens.

Bitcoin miners will take whatever is available, they aren't the ones in control of what fees to accept and mine, you need to learn a lot about mining OP, users are the one paying the fees and miners job is to make sure that the transaction goes through, but it looks like the transaction fee is dipping down since yesterday, I tried making a transaction yesterday and I was asked 25$ and today it's 15$, maybe it will go lower in coming days or weeks so let's be calm for now, don't make any transaction unless it's very important.

Yeah the extra fees for the entire network were 4 to 8 million a day for a week or so. They failed to do what they wanted which was to drive btc down under 25k.

BTC hodlers stood strong.

We may see a good bounce back in btc price maybe 32k in under a week.

Glad to hear it.
It's a sign the BRC-20 spamming is already slowing down. The shit-token-boys must be slowly running out of sats, oh my.
Must be fun times as a miner when you suddenly get an almost 2x on your usual income.

Let's see how the next few days perform. My guess is: Slowly continuing to decrease to pre-BRC-20 levels with a few random spam-bumps in-between.

So miners had 10 good days of fees which is now dropping.

Last few blocks fees are much lower

1.36
0.45
0.66
1.05
1.49
1.92
0.73
1.60
1.67
1.67


and viabtc dropped from 160% of a block to  130%

This is how the mining mechanism works. It all depends on the network, If there is a lot of traffic on the network, then most likely the fees will increase until it cools down and decreases again.

Although I understand your point, I don't know if it's feasible to split transactions into categories to make it fair for all people but I feel like miners won't bother to mine transactions with low fees since they come with lower financial benefits for them. They'll just focus on higher fee transactions, and that's fair and more beneficials for them.

For people who want to send transactions when Bitcoin's fees are high, they can exchange it for an altcoin like LTC, which has lower fees, and then send the transaction temporarily until Bitcoin fees stabilize and become low again.

Actually, the miners have limited powers and they can not increase the fee. The fee is basically set the by the one who executes the transaction. As you know that due to Ordinals the Bitcoin blockchain is currently congested and there are many transactions in queue. In order to execute the transactions the user has to select very high fees.

The block size of Bitcoin is limited to 1MB and because of that a miner can execute limited number of transactions in a block. The miners on other hand are dependent on the fee set by the one who executes the transaction and if the fee set is higher than others the miners would love to add that transaction into the next block. Miners are also adding the transactions in the blocks to earn money and the higher fee is a blessing for them.


That is only possible is miners are willing to add the transactions with low fee into the next block which is unlikely to happen as miners prefer higher fees because their main goal is to generate as much revenue from mining operations as possible. That would be a great thing if miners give preference to the transactions with lower fees but unfortunately that's going to happen anytime.

There used to be rules that allowed you to send transactions for free:

https://en.bitcoin.it/wiki/Miner_fees#Historic_rules_for_free_transactions

A nice piece of history

The bottom line right now is that mining is a business... If a miner can collect 1Btc in fees from a block, why would he opt to only collect 0.1 Btc in fees by selecting fees with a lower fee (in sats/vbyte) instead of the ones with a higher fee? If would make no economic sense for them... They invested a lot, they have ASIC's, they have mining rooms, they sometimes need to pay wages, rent and taxes...

It's not that it's impossible for them to do this, it would just make little sense to do so (from their point of view)

I believe this is not because of the miners that increase the mining fee but the people that make the transaction fees increased because people just increase their transaction fees to get their transaction got confirmed faster than the transaction that use low fees.

Is that even possible though? You can probably suggest or make some commits if you have some idea on how to do that. At the end of the day miners are driven by profit most of the time, that's just how the market works. If anything I believe the recent spike is just because people find a new toy and would probably stop dumping a lot of money just to print token when they realize the demand is not that high. The market will balance itself, even at the time of writing the fee is coming down gradually.

Tell that to the free market lol

The hike of the mining Fee in the blockchain is not a new thing in the forum, in fact, it is the trending news in the forum and offline. My simple question is that why the Miners increase the Mining fee and generalize it to everyone both who what to transfer small unit of bitcoin and those who want to transfer big unit are all the sharing the same transaction fees. Why?
The matter now is getting out of hand because people are getting starve because they can't collect their coins and sell it to feed. Miners should consider the category of transactions. Let the lower transaction should be charged less and the very big whale transactions should be done according to the unit. Don't equalize everyone as one and charge them equal.