Mining: Halving will destroy the half of us.

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Quote from: leyton11 on May 11, 2020, 07:41:03 AM

People think bitcoin halving is a good chance to speculate this year but they don't understand the nature of halving. halving the reward will reduce the miners revenue by half and keep the cost the same. If prices continue to go down, many people will be bankrupt. that will cause great damage and maybe miners will sell off their bitcoins. At that time, the market will be really bad

And you suggest what exactly?

Indeed, it is a good chance to speculate, or are you going to tell that the speculators should pack and go home? But without them the prices wouldn't be where they are now, and, quite ironically, there wouldn't be as many miners sticking around either, able to earn by the price being in many thousands. It is exactly because of the cryptocurrency speculators that mining has become profitable in the first place (and while we are at it, they have nothing to do with the halvings). In simple terms, and figuratively speaking, don't bite the hand that feeds you (i.e. open market)

leyton11

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People think bitcoin halving is a good chance to speculate this year but they don't understand the nature of halving. halving the reward will reduce the miners revenue by half and keep the cost the same. If prices continue to go down, many people will be bankrupt. that will cause great damage and maybe miners will sell off their bitcoins. At that time, the market will be really bad.

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Possibly the half of the miners will stop mining bitcoin because it is a huge loss to them if they got only half of the block but still it depends on them what kind of action they will do the halving is coming when it starts most of the coin is rapidly increasing and give a huge market profit but still the only thing they will get is just half of the bitcoin block it is profitable? I think yes because the halving is coming they can make more income regarding this also the halving is happening every four years and there is a huge possibility that the miners already gained a lot of bitcoin to use this on their transactions and stored wallet.

Quote from: EdvinZ on May 10, 2020, 01:10:48 AM

In any case, mining will be profitable for those who use very cheap electricity and buys mining equipment at wholesale prices with large discounts. Naturally, the big miners always win. Perhaps this is a good time for the development of services that give mining capacity for rent, where everyone can buy the amount of mining capacity that they can afford.

One thing too mining is good to the people who have low electricity charges or bills because to make more mining it takes a lot of time before they've got the block of the coin. Also, it is a huge loss to the people who have a huge bill on their electricity it goes the money to the payment, not on their wallet funds.

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Can halving make btc network weaker? Hashrate will drop, i guess

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In any case, mining will be profitable for those who use very cheap electricity and buys mining equipment at wholesale prices with large discounts. Naturally, the big miners always win. Perhaps this is a good time for the development of services that give mining capacity for rent, where everyone can buy the amount of mining capacity that they can afford.

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

This is all too familiar with the miners. 3 times halving ago it completely followed the scenario of sharp decline before rising. miners are not traders either, they don't need instant profit. They create the factory and leave it running for 4-6 months and then harvest the results. I'm sure the whales will not let the miners lose, the whales will pump it up so the miners are profitable and the hashrate increases. The game will continue and do not be too pessimistic when prices fall sharply, it will soon recover as planned.

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Quote from: Barcode_ on May 09, 2020, 05:27:29 PM

I guess it will highly depends on how the price of bitcoin will goes after the halving event for bitcoin completes in a few days time, if the price of bitcoin does skyrockets after the halving event, I believe some small bitcoin mining companies can still choose to operate their mining business with small profits gain every month. As usual, large bitcoin mining companies would surely have more advantage in the bitcoin mining industry due to the huge amount of resources they have on their hands.

I think the same here. If the price will continue to increase, I guess even small miners will still get good profit. Though large bitcoin mining facilities will have the advantage but those small miners combined will still have significant impact in bitcoin mining industry. We will see the aftermath of halving maybe 2 weeks or couple months after this event.

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I guess it will highly depends on how the price of bitcoin will goes after the halving event for bitcoin completes in a few days time, if the price of bitcoin does skyrockets after the halving event, I believe some small bitcoin mining companies can still choose to operate their mining business with small profits gain every month. As usual, large bitcoin mining companies would surely have more advantage in the bitcoin mining industry due to the huge amount of resources they have on their hands.

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Quote from: Spaffin on May 09, 2020, 03:20:19 AM

Anyway, the income of the miner will primarily depend on the price of bitcoin.

Not solely as some miner tend to mine other altcoin as well ( some smart miner atleast )

Quote from: Spaffin on May 09, 2020, 03:20:19 AM

In almost a year, Bitcoin rose by 300% and in July 2017 amounted to about $ 2,500. In addition, And we all observed that before the end of 2017, Bitcoin almost skyrocketed to $ 20,000

Although statistically it shows an increase after each halving, dont forget that the current world is in pandemic right now. Alot of people need cash instead of investment, I mean the average joe so people could be hard selling it once it reach a certain number.

In longer term however we might see an increase but some miner could be affected by it and might stop their operation ( unless you mine from a third world country with cheap electricity )

Quote from: Spaffin on May 09, 2020, 03:20:19 AM

Thus, halving 2020 can also show very good results and miners will not suffer.

Quite confidence arent you but I do agree on this

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Anyway, the income of the miner will primarily depend on the price of bitcoin. And if we take into account the facts that confirm the influence of previous halving on the price of bitcoin, then you do not need to worry about the salaries of miners. So, the 2012 event affected Bitcoin in the best way, because during the year Bitcoin managed to rise to $ 1,000, which corresponds to almost 8.086 % percent growth. in the same way, halving in 2016 also affected the rise in bitcoin prices. In almost a year, Bitcoin rose by 300% and in July 2017 amounted to about $ 2,500. In addition, And we all observed that before the end of 2017, Bitcoin almost skyrocketed to $ 20,000. Thus, halving 2020 can also show very good results and miners will not suffer.

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

I was acquainted with a bitcoin mining business brother. He said that as long as the price of BTC is above $ 4k, he has enough profit to cover all costs. so bitcoin halving this time only brings profit to miners when the price of bitcoin is above $ 8k. and now it is sufficiently satisfied and I think the big diggers will still function normally. because that is the life source of the whales, they need to exploit many Bitcoins to better manipulate.

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Quote from: michellee on May 06, 2020, 09:34:36 PM

Quote from: silversurfer1958 on May 06, 2020, 06:45:34 PM

I don't think the halving event is the end of the small miner. Because although BTC's mining difficulty has doubled, the value of BTC has greatly increased. Currently at the time of writing, the value of BTC is $ 9300. If after the halving event, the price of btc exceeds the $ 20k , the small miner will continue to work. Because they can mine a smaller amount of BTC than before but they can earn more dollars due to the value of BTC going up in the future.

But the small miner will not get a big reward if they still mine bitcoin. I don't know how many satoshis they will reach every day because that will depend on how big the hashrate that they have in their hardware. And if bitcoin price is at more than $15k-$20k, then they might make a nice profit with their hardware because they can sell the reward to get the profit. But yes, they need to calculate how much the electricity cost that they should pay so they can get the real profit.

What can we do, if that's the nature of bitcoin? We just need to do some adjustments and adapt on its changes in number and its effect in the market. We all know that the demand on bitcoin will become higher compared to its normal price because of the halving of its supply. Miners should do some adjustments also as small miners are the one who will not get the advantages of this halving as they will not get the rewards that is appropriate for them. Calculating the expenses in mining bitcoin is not that easy and required for you to prevent losses and you know how to budget the profit that you've gained. Profits should be saved and budget properly for you to know the importance of the advantage of halving in bitcoin's price.

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Quote from: silversurfer1958 on May 06, 2020, 06:45:34 PM

I don't think the halving event is the end of the small miner. Because although BTC's mining difficulty has doubled, the value of BTC has greatly increased. Currently at the time of writing, the value of BTC is $ 9300. If after the halving event, the price of btc exceeds the $ 20k , the small miner will continue to work. Because they can mine a smaller amount of BTC than before but they can earn more dollars due to the value of BTC going up in the future.

But the small miner will not get a big reward if they still mine bitcoin. I don't know how many satoshis they will reach every day because that will depend on how big the hashrate that they have in their hardware. And if bitcoin price is at more than $15k-$20k, then they might make a nice profit with their hardware because they can sell the reward to get the profit. But yes, they need to calculate how much the electricity cost that they should pay so they can get the real profit.

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Quote from: silversurfer1958 on May 06, 2020, 06:45:34 PM

I don't think the halving event is the end of the small miner.

But of course you cannot disregard the other factors need to consider most especially the electric consumption. Because I saw posts of selling Antminers and GPUs sometimes on crypto groups I joined on Fb. Take note, they are on a fresh condition. Thus we can conclude that small scale mining is not worthy (or at least less profitable) anymore. Well, maybe only here in our country tho since its hotter here and have more expensive electricity Grin

.

Quote from: silversurfer1958 on May 06, 2020, 06:45:34 PM

If after the halving event, the price of btc exceeds the $ 20k ,

Really? Are you a fortune teller lol? We are not sure of that dude. I hope it will happen but I'm not relying on that expectation

.

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I don't think the halving event is the end of the small miner. Because although BTC's mining difficulty has doubled, the value of BTC has greatly increased. Currently at the time of writing, the value of BTC is $ 9300. If after the halving event, the price of btc exceeds the $ 20k , the small miner will continue to work. Because they can mine a smaller amount of BTC than before but they can earn more dollars due to the value of BTC going up in the future.

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Few dasy later for halving but bitcoin still not the same and keep on lower price, I think this bad days for bitcoin halving time because couldn't give effect how to make bitcoin looks profitable and become investment assets for the future with higher price. But not bitcoin keep going down and not show how profitable with bitcoin price.

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Quote from: avikz on April 28, 2020, 11:16:57 AM

Possibly yes, if the price doesn't increase or remains at the current level. So purchasing bitcoin from the market instead of mining will be cheaper for the majority of the miners. But those who are using alternative sources like wind power or solar panel will be exceptions for obvious reasons.

So to sustain the current mining profitability, the price has to double as the reward will be halved. But if large number of miners go out of the business - no one will escape the suffering! Expect increase in fees and longer waiting time as an immediate result of upcoming halving.

It would really be on domino effect and we should anticipate that if the demand would remain constant and doesnt have any tendency to rise up for further months. Small scale miners wont really have any option but to shut it down unless if they do want to donate some money on paying up electricity bills.Its just dumb for you to continue into things which arent profitable.Of course this one would exclude to those
who've been mining with very cheap electricity even if the price doesnt react that much then it wont be a problem.In talks of fees then lets see on what would happen after the halving.

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Quote from: kleinkgd on May 06, 2020, 09:36:16 AM

Is it possible to discuss an increase of transaction fees for small miners?

Fee revenue should increase as adoption increases, and also tends to surge during bubble times like 2017, but this probably won't happen squarely around the halving.

No matter what, the halving should have a consolidating effect on the mining industry.

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Is it possible to discuss an increase of transaction fees for small miners? On "big" cryptocurrency related news websites they write about this possibility, but I guess it will be not interesting at all for the major part of small miners.

Regarding the future of "big miners", - you surely know that in Irkutsk (Russia) a russian oligarch pays near 0.2 RUB per kWh (for today: 0.0027 USD) for an electricity for his big farm. Surely it remain effective to mine and for the future.

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Quote from: Botnake on May 05, 2020, 07:21:18 AM

Quote from: boyptc on May 05, 2020, 06:40:41 AM

But, that possibly will happen because of the increase in difficulty. I think the small miners understand this even before they've started mining.

I agree with that, those early miners if they were able to get a good amount of bitcoin and they manage it properly, they'll be able to buy good mining equipment now to prepare for every halving, this time its for the big company that will play the game, they will because they can and small miners will just not gonna survive, so instead of mining, it's better to invest our money in bitcoin and learn how to trade, still the same result if we will be successful as we will still make bitcoin in the crypto space.

Even if they can afford to buy new mining rigs but their location will charge them
higher amount of cost from electricity then all their
efforts will come to nothing and Big miners will still win the competition,there are
so many small miners in the past that already
stopped operating now because they find the cost of electricity is much higher than
they are gaining from mining so instead of continues
mining they chose to stop and find other things here to get profit.

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First of all the miners usually work at places that have very very cheap electricity or even free electricity in exchange of paying taxes. And I think it makes sense, if the electricity provided for you is state owned that means they are going to give you electricity for free in order to get taxes from you in exchange, no need to double the cost because the more you earn the more you pay in taxes anyway, so it is both like a way to help and support miners but also still get something in return.

Secondly the machines always gets better and better, sure they are not making profit right now but look like they are not making much profit when the halving happens but between the difficulty changes and the better machines coming up I am sure they are going to be alright in the future.

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Quote from: fabiorem on May 05, 2020, 08:29:24 AM

Three months ago the cost to make a single bitcoin was $8k.

Three months ago it was estimated to be $6,851: https://tradeblock.com/blog/analyzing-bitcoin-mining-profitability-following-the-halving-and-its-indication-for-price

And that's a big overestimation since it's based on $0.06/kWh prices. I assume large scale miners average less than that, some significantly so when you account for power plant load matching, co-generation plants, cheap rain season hydro power, etc. It also assumes retail prices for mining gear which is unrealistic for a large portion of the hash rate.

Quote from: cabron on May 05, 2020, 11:13:44 AM

I have doubts about this, the price will go up and these small miners will be able to sell for a higher price unless these big mining farms are going to kill them by dragging the prices down.

It doesn't have to be a conspiracy theory with large miners trying to squeeze out small miners. Price may just go down anyway.

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Quote from: ene1980 on May 04, 2020, 06:56:34 PM

Quote from: arallmuus on May 04, 2020, 04:12:08 PM

The halving wont really affect alot of miner because those small time miners are usually mining by setting up their equipment in third world country where the cost of electricity is not that high compared to Europe or US

They wont really get that much profit but they definitely wont shut down due to halving for sure

If anyone is able to relocate to a third world country to set up their equipment then you cannot call them a small time miner Tongue

. If you are mining with a few equipment you are not even expecting much profit in any country as electricity is not free even in third world countries, you are just happy running the full node.

With a single Antminer S9 you cannot make profit in US or Europe but with three Antminer S9 you can still make around a dollar a day Wink

.

I guess you could said so but I know a guy that only have around 10 mining equipment and mine from a third world country. Im not sure if you consider this as small time miner or not but he showed me picture of the place before and it is only a small room that fit around 30 equipment if you stack them up.

he only used two small aircon during the day and one during the night so the electricity bill isnt as high as when he used to mine from his country : Cheesy

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

Yes, everyone is eagerly awaiting the halving process, but no one wants to talk about these negative aspects of the event. Unfortunately, individual or small miners will no longer be able to earn revenue as before, and profit margins will drop to almost zero. For this reason, many small miners will have to unplug their machines with this block split. This situation will not only cause small miners to disappear from the market, but it will affect everyone, because small miners actually form a large community when they are together. We can also see that the mining shares of large pools have increased as a result of this community losing power or withdrawing completely from the mining area. Unfortunately, although the halving process seems to be nice, it is not a development that will have a positive effect.

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Quote from: tbterryboy on May 05, 2020, 01:09:34 PM

It is not even going to end there, it will keep going up. After the halving the price will decline for sure, and that's going to be because a lot of miners that would give up due to not getting enough rewards from their work

I don't see a lot of causal relationship here

Okay, some miners are going to call it a day for the time being, which will likely cause a temporary loss of hashing power and, as a result, a series of network congestions with fees skyrocketing (as they already are). So far, so good. But how and in what way is this going to affect market prices? If anything, higher fees typically go along with higher prices, although it can be a simple correlation or a one-way causation, i.e. surging prices leading to higher fees, but not necessarily the other way around. So why should prices decline on account of some miners unplugging their mining rigs even if they will have to?

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Quote from: poodle63 on May 05, 2020, 09:28:03 AM

Quote from: fabiorem on May 05, 2020, 08:29:24 AM

Three months ago the cost to make a single bitcoin was $8k.
Costs will double after the halving. If the market follow these costs, small miners will be able to survive. If not, they are out of business.

if the difficulty decrease following the decrease in miners number I think it will balance out but the mining power could be a lot more centralized than before. I really hope the price will increase as much as 2x although seem impossible but if the resource required to mine a btc cost that much, it's logical.

I have my doubts if decreasing the difficulty could mitigate the losses caused by the halving. They use the rewards to pay for the costs, after all. If this was possible, bitcoin would still be around $1000 to this day, as it would stabilize right after the first halving.

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

There is nothing like destroying. Halving is not going to destroy the cryptocurrency or bitcoin community, it's only going to have a short term negative effect and as time goes on it will start to recover. It's just like the normal things we have seen happening here, like earlier this year when the price dropped temporarily after the Coronavirus outbreak, it didn't take long and it started recovering and now we have the price at $9,000.

It is not even going to end there, it will keep going up. After the halving the price will decline for sure, and that's going to be because a lot of miners that would give up due to not getting enough rewards from their work.

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Where do you think these small miners would go mining when they can't stand the bigger ones if they can't stand the big mining farms?

I have doubts about this, the price will go up and these small miners will be able to sell for a higher price unless these big mining farms are going to kill them by dragging the prices down.

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See it is not a new thing , the miners involved in the minings knew it would happen and therefore they are prepared for handling such situation.
Mining is important not just for the miners but for the community too , the small miners would have to actually try trading and run the software to earn small amount but I do think they will walk out .
Soon enough when the last Bitcoin will be miner , the Mining will be centralized , there will be a big mining industry controlling everything. Because small miners would have to stop doing it and the ones who are not able to make it would try and earn though different ways.

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Quote from: fabiorem on May 05, 2020, 08:29:24 AM

Three months ago the cost to make a single bitcoin was $8k.
Costs will double after the halving. If the market follow these costs, small miners will be able to survive. If not, they are out of business.

if the difficulty decrease following the decrease in miners number I think it will balance out but the mining power could be a lot more centralized than before. I really hope the price will increase as much as 2x although seem impossible but if the resource required to mine a btc cost that much, it's logical.

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Three months ago the cost to make a single bitcoin was $8k.
Costs will double after the halving. If the market follow these costs, small miners will be able to survive. If not, they are out of business.

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Quote from: Botnake on May 05, 2020, 07:21:18 AM

Quote from: boyptc on May 05, 2020, 06:40:41 AM

But, that possibly will happen because of the increase in difficulty. I think the small miners understand this even before they've started mining.

I agree with that, those early miners if they were able to get a good amount of bitcoin and they manage it properly, they'll be able to buy good mining equipment now to prepare for every halving, this time its for the big company that will play the game, they will because they can and small miners will just not gonna survive, so instead of mining, it's better to invest our money in bitcoin and learn how to trade, still the same result if we will be successful as we will still make bitcoin in the crypto space.

It's a reality.

They should have planned it from the beginning when they're aware of the halving thus, miners are also upgrading due to the hash power that it gives.

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Quote from: boyptc on May 05, 2020, 06:40:41 AM

But, that possibly will happen because of the increase in difficulty. I think the small miners understand this even before they've started mining.

I agree with that, those early miners if they were able to get a good amount of bitcoin and they manage it properly, they'll be able to buy good mining equipment now to prepare for every halving, this time its for the big company that will play the game, they will because they can and small miners will just not gonna survive, so instead of mining, it's better to invest our money in bitcoin and learn how to trade, still the same result if we will be successful as we will still make bitcoin in the crypto space.

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Quote from: maxdin on May 05, 2020, 12:44:46 AM

Quote from: naomi-the-cat on May 02, 2020, 10:43:43 AM

This will cause even higher mining centralization unfortunately

yeah exactly. we'll meet china as a world's metropolis of mining and that is extremely sad and makes bitcoin partially pointless

It's not pointless.

But, that possibly will happen because of the increase in difficulty. I think the small miners understand this even before they've started mining.

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"only the Bitmain's Antminer S9K "barely breaks even" at 3 cents per kWh. This range represents 46% of all hashpower mining in the lowest quartile, and most of these will need to mine below 2 cents per kWh to remain profitable after the halving"

but there are not many places that offer such cheap electricity. If this 2-cent electricity obstacle is somehow overcome, the miners would have such thin margins that a rise in mining difficulty will force them to go offline.

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Quote from: naomi-the-cat on May 02, 2020, 10:43:43 AM

This will cause even higher mining centralization unfortunately

yeah exactly. we'll meet china as a world's metropolis of mining and that is extremely sad and makes bitcoin partially pointless

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Undoubtedly, halving increases the threshold for entering the mining business. This business was already risky, given the volatility of Bitcoin. Now the risks increase by 100%. I think that the future is in mining pools, where everyone can buy mining capacity, because mining is becoming a very expensive business.

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The semicircle really affects who digs In the case of excavation equipment they can turn it off if they do not expect to get adequate profit and high prices They dig it because of the high price. Third world countries will not spend if not high prices. In that case, it is more likely to be closed Halving will not destroy half of us if the excavation does not affect any country it will continue to grow at its specified speed These miners can have no effect on the coin.

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Quote from: arallmuus on May 04, 2020, 04:12:08 PM

The halving wont really affect alot of miner because those small time miners are usually mining by setting up their equipment in third world country where the cost of electricity is not that high compared to Europe or US

They wont really get that much profit but they definitely wont shut down due to halving for sure

If anyone is able to relocate to a third world country to set up their equipment then you cannot call them a small time miner Tongue

. If you are mining with a few equipment you are not even expecting much profit in any country as electricity is not free even in third world countries, you are just happy running the full node.

With a single Antminer S9 you cannot make profit in US or Europe but with three Antminer S9 you can still make around a dollar a day Wink

.

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Quote from: South Park on May 04, 2020, 12:35:16 PM

Miners that are using old equipment will have to stop their machines anyway at some point even if the halving did not took place, as we know mining equipment is always been improved upon and it will come to a point in which the old equipment will be unable to produce any profits for their owners, the only thing that the halving is doing is to speed up that process and while this will centralize bitcoin mining even further it is an inevitable process as the more efficient miners will drive out of the market those that are inefficient.

Nah, that wont really happen unless you are mining at high cost which is not possible. The halving wont really affect alot of miner because those small time miners are usually mining by setting up their equipment in third world country where the cost of electricity is not that high compared to Europe or US

They wont really get that much profit but they definitely wont shut down due to halving for sure

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Quote from: shoreno on May 04, 2020, 01:04:03 PM

Quote from: South Park on May 04, 2020, 12:35:16 PM

Miners that are using old equipment will have to stop their machines anyway at some point even if the halving did not took place, as we know mining equipment is always been improved upon and it will come to a point in which the old equipment will be unable to produce any profits for their owners, the only thing that the halving is doing is to speed up that process and while this will centralize bitcoin mining even further it is an inevitable process as the more efficient miners will drive out of the market those that are inefficient.

speed up so it means the transaction will now be faster ? thats great . now we can use more btc even in a hurry but the only downside is that it will make things centralized ?

Transactions won't become faster

I mean beyond what is specified or implied by the Bitcoin protocol, which is one block of transactions per 10 minutes (unless you are using LN or similar technology for off-chain transactions). But you probably already know that, don't you? Of course, if there's a dramatic surge in the hash rate, we will likely see a boost in the number of new blocks found, which will bring about faster confirmations as well, but this rise will soon be leveled out by the respective rise in the mining difficulty. And then we are back to square one (minus some miners having to pull the plug)

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Quote from: South Park on May 04, 2020, 12:35:16 PM

Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

Miners that are using old equipment will have to stop their machines anyway at some point even if the halving did not took place, as we know mining equipment is always been improved upon and it will come to a point in which the old equipment will be unable to produce any profits for their owners, the only thing that the halving is doing is to speed up that process and while this will centralize bitcoin mining even further it is an inevitable process as the more efficient miners will drive out of the market those that are inefficient.

speed up so it means the transaction will now be faster ? thats great . now we can use more btc even in a hurry but the only downside is that it will make things centralized ? oh no . i think being centralized is one of the things that crypto users hate but no choice for others because if all will leave then that will be a disaster but they wont do it becuase they will think that when people leave the mining scene there will be less competition so more income for them

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

Miners that are using old equipment will have to stop their machines anyway at some point even if the halving did not took place, as we know mining equipment is always been improved upon and it will come to a point in which the old equipment will be unable to produce any profits for their owners, the only thing that the halving is doing is to speed up that process and while this will centralize bitcoin mining even further it is an inevitable process as the more efficient miners will drive out of the market those that are inefficient.

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"
The time has come for small miners isn't it?

It all depends upon individual miners whether to disconnect or keep on mining, users with renewable energy like solar might keep on mining even without any benefit to help the network with a full node. There are many selfless in the bitcoin space and they will keep on running their equipment until it become obsolete.

Quote from: avikz on April 28, 2020, 11:16:57 AM

Expect increase in fees and longer waiting time as an immediate result of upcoming halving.

Even last week when the price had a rally the transaction with lower fees took a long time to get confirmed and some of my transaction got stuck not anticipating a jump in price all of a sudden and with the halving near our sight i am expecting longer waiting time to get a confirmation.

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

with no doubt miners situation will be bad.but in the beginning i hope!! after that maybe we gonna see some better equipment for miners and see alot of more pos mining style witch is much better.and also after halving we will see drop of price because of that.

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Quote from: Sanugarid on May 04, 2020, 07:21:50 AM

Quote from: Botnake on May 03, 2020, 08:23:49 AM

I think they already know that it's going to happen in the future, small miners will have to disconnect if they will not upgrade their equipment, that's the how the game is played here, if they are willing to continue to the business, they should prepare for this upcoming halving, and we also have our rule to help increase the price of bitcoins so miners will survive.

There is nothing left for small miners to choose from, either they need to expand their operation to sustain their expenses relative to their suppose income but I don't think they have the guts and money to do that since there are already big players in mining industry and upgrading might be just failure in the making. These miners should be focusing on mining alternative coins, those coins that has a huge potential to play along with such great contenders. I hope the last thing in their mind is to disconnect from mining.

They knew at the very start that this time is going to happen, they are not that dumb to not to think of the halving that will come at them especially to small miners but, what I really doubt is if they have a savings from mining because as far as I know they are only getting enough to make a daily living and the expenses they are generating from electricity consumption, So if happens that small miners are really urge to continue mining they should be putting a lot of money too, like a new capital however you are correct that the competition in mining after halving will get higher due to cut of supply and rewards. Small miners are in dilemma right now, whether to continue or disconnect.

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Quote from: Botnake on May 03, 2020, 08:23:49 AM

I think they already know that it's going to happen in the future, small miners will have to disconnect if they will not upgrade their equipment, that's the how the game is played here, if they are willing to continue to the business, they should prepare for this upcoming halving, and we also have our rule to help increase the price of bitcoins so miners will survive.

There is nothing left for small miners to choose from, either they need to expand their operation to sustain their expenses relative to their suppose income but I don't think they have the guts and money to do that since there are already big players in mining industry and upgrading might be just failure in the making. These miners should be focusing on mining alternative coins, those coins that has a huge potential to play along with such great contenders. I hope the last thing in their mind is to disconnect from mining.

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Quote from: beerlover on May 03, 2020, 11:09:54 AM

There is also some people who join this with some money aside as well, which means even if they are not making a profit, not everyone joins it as something to make money forever, not every single thing they do is for money, mostly it could be something like an investment in general. So at the end of the day those people will continue, just a 100k investment could be big to you and me, but it is not for some people, plus it is still small for some people as well

This logic is not without flaws

And its major flaw or weakness is that the people you refer to (investors) would be better off financially if they just chose to buy bitcoins with their dollars (or whatever) at a market price instead of buying mining rigs, and then simply held the cryptocurrency. It makes sense to mine at a loss only if you are already heavily invested in this business, know all of its ins and outs, and see the bright days ahead when your efforts and pains will be rewarded accordingly (like Bitcoin hitting 100k in a couple of months)

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There is also some people who join this with some money aside as well, which means even if they are not making a profit, not everyone joins it as something to make money forever, not every single thing they do is for money, mostly it could be something like an investment in general. So at the end of the day those people will continue, just a 100k investment could be big to you and me, but it is not for some people, plus it is still small for some people as well.

So, the middle level will continue, people who are richer than us, poorer than the whale miners will try to survive as well. I am not sure whats going to happen to everyone, I am sure all of them will be hurt, its going down half in the end so there is no way all of them profiting from it.

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

What matters is the overall interest of the bitcoin community and not that of few individuals. We must not think of how small miners will survive after bitcoin halving because they will survive. Those who are serious to remain in business will get bigger mining equipment to cut cost. They will devise means to remain in business. That is how miners have been surviving the quarterly halvings.

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I think they already know that it's going to happen in the future, small miners will have to disconnect if they will not upgrade their equipment, that's the how the game is played here, if they are willing to continue to the business, they should prepare for this upcoming halving, and we also have our rule to help increase the price of bitcoins so miners will survive.

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Quote from: Sirait on May 02, 2020, 01:51:43 PM

halving day that will occur such as selecting and getting rid of small miners, but if the price of Bitcoin is higher then the small miner will still be able to survive

The higher price on its own won't suffice

More specifically, small miners dancing around the breakeven point can survive only if the price keeps rising over a long enough timeframe (say, a month or longer). If this is the case, they will be able to mine at a loss and hope (read, pray) that the price goes north in the near future so they are able to sell for a profit

However, if the price just rises and then stays there, the difficulty will catch up in a short while, and their losses will come back with no chance of making ends meet. In this manner, small miners are like small businesses -- generally full of hope but more often than not ending up in pain and debt

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halving day that will occur such as selecting and getting rid of small miners, but if the price of Bitcoin is higher then the small miner will still be able to survive

I am very optimistic that the price of Bitcoin will soar high after Halving Day goes well

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Quote from: Sanugarid on May 02, 2020, 11:48:08 AM

Quote from: deisik on May 02, 2020, 03:59:20 AM

Higher fees means more revenue for miners. I didn't see the latest stats, but a couple years ago transaction fees had already been contributing greatly to the revenue flow received by miners. So, if, for example, the fees collected by miners account for half of their profits now, to entirely offset the negative impact of the coming halving, the fees will have to rise twice on average. But if they are already making up the best part of the miners' profits (say, 70-80 percent or even more), the halving won't cause a dramatic plunge in the current mining profitability

Yes, there will be higher fees for miners to be rewarded from but it does not change the fact that the number of block will be halved this May

You don't get it

But let me help you. A miner's profit consists of two independent variables, i.e. the block reward (a variable set in stone until changed by halving) and the fees that she collects from the transactions included in the block (a floating variable). Then, if the network fees now constitute the majority of mining profitability (over 50%), the coming block reward halving won't make a dramatic dent in profits, even if the fee structure remains essentially the same

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Quote from: deisik on May 02, 2020, 03:59:20 AM

Quote from: avikz on April 28, 2020, 11:16:57 AM

So to sustain the current mining profitability, the price has to double as the reward will be halved. But if large number of miners go out of the business - no one will escape the suffering! Expect increase in fees and longer waiting time as an immediate result of upcoming halving

Higher fees means more revenue for miners. I didn't see the latest stats, but a couple years ago transaction fees had already been contributing greatly to the revenue flow received by miners. So, if, for example, the fees collected by miners account for half of their profits now, to entirely offset the negative impact of the coming halving, the fees will have to rise twice on average. But if they are already making up the best part of the miners' profits (say, 70-80 percent or even more), the halving won't cause a dramatic plunge in the current mining profitability

Yes, there will be higher fees for miners to be rewarded from but it does not change the fact that the number of block will be halved this May. It means also a higher competition from small and huge mining farms but the question is, do rewards will keep the maintenance of the equipment and power consumption? Even they have the latest tool that is energy efficient I think it would not be enough. Small miners can still try after the halving, but if they already sees that it won't be worth it at all then that's the time they should jump into another coin.

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This will cause even higher mining centralization unfortunately

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I'm sure small miners have calculated bitcoin halving that will happen in a few days, the possibility of miners using old equipment is not
continue bitcoin mining. In my estimation, small miners will switch to altcoins, because the rewards for mining will decrease half of it.
Very heavy for small miners to continue, not to mention calculations for electricity costs. In the end bitcoin mining will be dominated by
big miners.

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Quote from: snipie on April 30, 2020, 08:41:30 AM

Less than two weeks (~12 days) from the halving and the price is rising near $9k which is good imo, the essential part is to maintain this progress until the halving. Such thing could keep as much miners as possible...

Yeah I guess they still have 12 days to go and after that they will have to decide if they want to stop or continue mining, but after the halving the scenario is not favorable to them anymore, they will have to eventually stop mining or look for a new coins to mine with the same algo as Bitcoin.

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 30, 2020, 03:38:30 PM

look at what's happening with price vs hash rate lately. the price has gone through the roof---up to $9k from the $6000s last month---yet the hash rate is actually dropping now. can you believe that? a couple days ago, difficulty was set to increase ~2%. now it's set to drop ~1% and it looks like it will continue dropping further. miners seem to be shutting down in anticipation of the halving, no matter how bullish the market looks now

To me, it looks more like a deliberate, contemplated and orchestrated attempt to bolster fees

We have already seen so many congestions in the past (starting 2015) that by now we should be used to taking this dynamic with a pinch of salt. So yes, we can believe that, that the hash rate is dropping now, but it doesn't in the least mean what you are trying to get across, i.e. that miners are leaving because they don't think this market is any longer profitable. Let's wait a few weeks and see if the hash rates don't hit new highs in the aftermath of halving

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Quote from: imstillthebest on May 01, 2020, 12:06:53 PM

Quote from: smyslov on May 01, 2020, 07:28:05 AM

They still can make a profit from mining other coins with similar halving with Bitcoin, or they can sell their mining rigs at even half of their price since they already mined a lot of coins in the past, this is the reality they have to accept and I'm pretty sure they know all of this before it comes.

this isnt new but this were already discused many times before and as a miner they already do thier research before they start that hobby/job so no worries . the one that i saw before is that miners are going to sold thier old miner and then obtain a new one to start mining again while i dont think they mine other coins if they already mine btc because they can earn more on btc plus whats the reason why they enter this hobby if its hard ? maybe they want more challenge .

For sure those who are still continuing this business has done doing their research, as knowing the risk since halving take place and the amount of received
shares will be more lessen. This miners understand everything and if they choose to continue then everything has been reviewed.
Miners are believers that time will come that the market will bounce and bring decent as long as value will rise high.

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Quote from: avikz on April 28, 2020, 11:16:57 AM

So to sustain the current mining profitability, the price has to double as the reward will be halved. But if large number of miners go out of the business - no one will escape the suffering! Expect increase in fees and longer waiting time as an immediate result of upcoming halving

Higher fees means more revenue for miners. I didn't see the latest stats, but a couple years ago transaction fees had already been contributing greatly to the revenue flow received by miners. So, if, for example, the fees collected by miners account for half of their profits now, to entirely offset the negative impact of the coming halving, the fees will have to rise twice on average. But if they are already making up the best part of the miners' profits (say, 70-80 percent or even more), the halving won't cause a dramatic plunge in the current mining profitability

Does anyone have the up-to-date stats?

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

Yep that’s the truth. It’s going to be like that after the halving, unless the price increases. If the price doesn’t increase a lot of miners are going to quit because they will be unable to take the expenses that will be coming from mining. I don’t really know how it’s going to be, but one thing for sure is that the price of Bitcoin will decline and it’s going to affect the altcoins too.

Quote from: FlightyPouch on April 30, 2020, 07:26:41 PM

We don't know what might happen but if the price did, I guess that would be for the better not just for the investors but also for the miners especially to small miners.

I know for sure that there will be miners who will drop out from mining Bitcoin, because judging from the past experience the price didn’t start going up immediately. It might be the same thing that will happen this time around, the price might take time before it goes up after the halving.

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When we are talking about the "little guy" we are not talking about the person who mines with his computer anymore at all, not even the person who has insane amount of rigs because rigs do not mine bitcoin anymore, it is only Asics. There are tens of Asic machines who are old and wouldn't mine neither. So, when we are talking about the little guy we are not talking about the machine, we are talking about the amount.

A small miner is someone who uses 100 of the same machines whereas the whale miner is the same machine but with thousands of them, they are both using the same thing but one owns very little amount of that machine whereas the other has unlimited amount, even makes it themselves. Otherwise machinery is no longer a question, if you have an old one you are not going to profit at all.

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Quote from: smyslov on May 01, 2020, 07:28:05 AM

They still can make a profit from mining other coins with similar halving with Bitcoin, or they can sell their mining rigs at even half of their price since they already mined a lot of coins in the past, this is the reality they have to accept and I'm pretty sure they know all of this before it comes.

this isnt new but this were already discused many times before and as a miner they already do thier research before they start that hobby/job so no worries . the one that i saw before is that miners are going to sold thier old miner and then obtain a new one to start mining again while i dont think they mine other coins if they already mine btc because they can earn more on btc plus whats the reason why they enter this hobby if its hard ? maybe they want more challenge .

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Well if pumpers can raise the price for 2x and stay there for some time there will be no effect...
Block subsidy would be the same:
* 12.5 x $6,000 = $75,000
* 6.25 x $12,000 = $75,000

I think small time miners already destroyed in the last bear market, so this is battle between large farms.

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certainly everything will have an impact, Halving also includes having a big impact on miners, and depending on how miners arrange their strategies so as not to lose money, I'm sure miners don't just mine Bitcoin, there are lots of coins that can be mined, and I think if miners give up on it very ridiculous, considering the price of Bitcoin will reach 10x in the next few years, miners will know that

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The cost of mining for 1 BTC after the halving day will cost twice as much as it is today. Therefore, old technology excavators with weak processing power will be eliminated. Miners have to spend large sums of money to buy the latest technology miners with powerful processors many times more than before. All of the above factors will help the value of BTC will have a big pump compared to the current price.

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

They still can make a profit from mining other coins with similar halving with Bitcoin, or they can sell their mining rigs at even half of their price since they already mined a lot of coins in the past, this is the reality they have to accept and I'm pretty sure they know all of this before it comes.

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There has been a lot of speculation regarding Halving 2020.
But to focus on the topic of mining. Hut 8 has stated that revenues and margins have decreased considerably in the last two quarters, with the halving there is the possibility that the mining platforms are not profitable. With a BTCitcoin boost, it could greatly benefit them.

https://www.coindesk.com/blockchain-bites-what-the-bitcoin-halving-means-for-miners-and-prices

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Well, if they really wanted to get on that ride, they should really think of that. As halving happens, the difficulty also rises and that also means that those small miners will be having a hard time getting a profit if the price did not increase, but what if the price did? We don't know what might happen but if the price did, I guess that would be for the better not just for the investors but also for the miners especially to small miners.

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Quote from: figmentofmyass on April 30, 2020, 03:38:30 PM

look at what's happening with price vs hash rate lately. the price has gone through the roof---up to $9k from the $6000s last month---yet the hash rate is actually dropping now. can you believe that? a couple days ago, difficulty was set to increase ~2%. now it's set to drop ~1% and it looks like it will continue dropping further. miners seem to be shutting down in anticipation of the halving, no matter how bullish the market looks now.

the lack of blocks the past 2 days has begun causing quite the mempool backlog:

I know that so well!
BTC's price is just not rational.

Back to the subject, I used to believe small miners have disappeared years ago. If there's one left, I guess he/she has already switched to some altcoin.

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Quote from: Reid on April 30, 2020, 11:25:46 AM

But what if the price of bitcoin will suddenly soar?
Will that be enough for them to stay?

chances are the market will meet in the middle.

look at what's happening with price vs hash rate lately. the price has gone through the roof---up to $9k from the $6000s last month---yet the hash rate is actually dropping now. can you believe that? a couple days ago, difficulty was set to increase ~2%. now it's set to drop ~1% and it looks like it will continue dropping further. miners seem to be shutting down in anticipation of the halving, no matter how bullish the market looks now.

the lack of blocks the past 2 days has begun causing quite the mempool backlog:

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"Small miners" is not really a thing that means something forever, there are small miners who are small right now, but in few years they will be using the machines of right now, so they keep getting more and more machinery and stay small all the time. Halving is just a time when it hurts the finances of small miners right away, but in general there is ALWAYS big miners and small miners.

Big miners gets this huge amazing great product and starts mining right away, small miner has old machine and tries to make as much as they can, afterwards the machine big miner got that was awesome becomes older and there is a new one, so the big miner sells it and small miner gets it meanwhile big miner gets the new one again. This has been going on forever and it will probably go on forever.

So, small miners might take a hit during this period, they might want to close shop for a while and not mine anything, but eventually they will still make some money.

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Quote from: boyptc on April 28, 2020, 12:17:51 PM

The price will adjust but there's a tendency that they have to shut their small miners and wait for that price adjustment to come. Maintenance and other costs can't be sustained anymore if the price won't adjust and that's the final resort that they must do.

Not unless these small miners are using:

Quote from: avikz on April 28, 2020, 11:16:57 AM

wind power or solar panel will be exceptions for obvious reasons.

and also cheap electricity.

Small miners could still be affected If the rewards continue to get slashed every four years, price of energy & hardware remain thesame or doesn't reduce substantially, while coin price doesn't move up very much. Community probably could do away with miners and replace that with something more sustainable and decentralized or find other ways to incentive & keep the small miners

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But what if the price of bitcoin will suddenly soar?
Will that be enough for them to stay?

Yes, it might be a great chance for small miners but if the difficulty is still high can they really afford it with the price still the same?
I know they will need to pay a lot for monthly electric bill and there is the thought of having ROI for the equipment used but can they still risk that much? Will you? If ever?

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Less than two weeks (~12 days) from the halving and the price is rising near $9k which is good imo, the essential part is to maintain this progress until the halving. Such thing could keep as much miners as possible...

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

It's inevitable small miners will have to give up, but I'm sure small miners have seen this one coming and have calculated their profits and losses, I have seen some miners already selling their mining rigs in our local online shop, three years ago you seldom see this kind of mining rigs being sold in that marketplace.

webtricks

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

What is your definition of small/huge?

It's all relative TBH. Bitcoin mining difficulty has been increasing over years. In initial days, high tech computers were enough. But now thousands of ASIC miners mining simultaneously are needed. And this rise wasn't immediate or associated with halvings. It was gradual with the popularity of bitcoin. So small miners as per my definition had left mining way before in 2015. Now few more will leave (most probably will change the coin they mining). Mining isn't a secure office job. It comes with risk and you have to upgrade yourself with time to achieve break-even plus profit else you have to leave, as simple as that. But the most important fact is that Bitcoin will become scarce and valuable and that's what matters the most.

tbterryboy

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Sadly it is the truth. Small miners will have to quit from mining when the halving is done and they are receiving small amount of block rewards. The only way they will be able to pass through this is if the price of bitcoin should increase immediately after the halving, then the rewards they get will be enough for them.

But the way I see it, the price is not going to increase immediately after the Halving and I’m saying this based on my experience with the other halving that took place, the price doesn’t go up immediately, it takes time and move up slowly, unless things are going to be different this time around.

gentlemand

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I thought the little guy became toast about 6-7 years ago. Mining is certainly not something that ever crossed my mind when I arrived and it hasn't done for a second since either. Mining is pure Darwinism so I will not shed a tear for anyone who can't cut it.

Darker45

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That's just the reality of it. The competition is increasing while the reward is decreasing. And if the price of Bitcoin does not increase significantly while the production cost is rising, there might really be a number of miners who will deem it wiser to just shut down. It could significantly reduce the difficulty, though, and they could resume. But, of course, they should also upgrade to more efficient hardware and look for alternative and cheaper electric cost.

mikeauerbach

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I thought that "the time had come for small miners" after 2016 halving and most of them switched to altcoins. But I'm not an expert. And what if halving reward would cause doubling the price. It's logical, to my mind.

exstasie

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BTCUSD is up over 35% during the current difficulty adjustment period. Meanwhile the difficulty is only slated to rise 0.38%. https://btc.com/stats/diff

Miners pricing in the halving?

I get the feeling the whole thing will be pretty orderly. I don't think there will be a crazy downswing in hash rate.

cafetools

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I guess were all going to have to sign up for HYIP cloud mining.... Grin

hatshepsut93

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It's not about small or big, it's about how much you are paying for electricity and maintenance costs, and how efficient is your equipment. There's a ton of variables at play, so you can't just simply say that big miners stay, small miners leave. And you also can't say that halving means that mining power or miners will be cut in half, the number of miners that will be forced to leave would likely be much smaller than that.

sheenshane

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Quote from: Leonardo7 on April 28, 2020, 11:34:21 PM

Miners using old equipment for mining will have to find another way of accumulating bitcoin,...

I tend to agree with you. An increase in the price might be a good help to small miners when halving comes. During the halving in the past small miners were able to cope up and still they exist somehow, they have prepared in this coming crisis like what they had before we have no idea what they will do during the halving in order to sustain in the crisis.

If they can't really sustain the crisis rest assure they already have options on what to do next instead of just sitting around waiting to lose everything. Right now, I can see the price of bitcoin is rising again and I hope it will still continue that when halving comes it will have a lesser effect on small miners and also to all of us.

Serco

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

halving or not small miner always get small portion in block reward, giant miners with modern device and resource will make their dominance bitcoin mining.. but for long time small miners still exist although have low block reward, it will paid when its price increase alot after halving. miners will take best price to sold their bitcoin , to closed operation cost with low block reward.

Leonardo7

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Miners using old equipment for mining will have to find another way of accumulating bitcoin, I don't know if they can gain much from transaction fee. This explains why miners shouldn't sell their bitcoin cheap just to play around the market because the difficulty level of bitcoin after halving is going higher and only modern day mining equipment can compete with this.

abhiseshakana

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

If based on the theory when the amount of reward obtained from the subsidy block is reduced by half, then profitability will also decrease. But if the price of Bitcoin will eventually rise (due to stock-to-flow ratio) then mining profitability also has the potential to rise.

If price movements experience an increase, the small miner still has the potential to earn profits from their mining activities.

FanatMonet

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They always have the opportunity to switch to other cryptocurrencies that use PoW technology, or, they hope that transaction processing will bring them a sufficient amount that will suit them. Or the third option, with disconnection from the network.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: Sanugarid on April 28, 2020, 10:56:23 AM

The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

it's a matter of perspective. a lot of people would say the time already came for small miners years ago, with the advent of ASICs or the 2016 halving. i know people who used to mine bitcoins with GPU and FPGA at home. they wouldn't go anywhere near home mining now.

the halvings will continue magnifying the effect of economies of scale. large scale miners will have superior cost advantages. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economies_of_scale

there was a lot of fearmongering about miner shutdowns after the 2016 halving but it never had a significant effect on hash rate. miners generally plan for the long term and have no doubt prepared for this halving just the same.

boyptc

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The price will adjust but there's a tendency that they have to shut their small miners and wait for that price adjustment to come. Maintenance and other costs can't be sustained anymore if the price won't adjust and that's the final resort that they must do.

Not unless these small miners are using:

Quote from: avikz on April 28, 2020, 11:16:57 AM

wind power or solar panel will be exceptions for obvious reasons.

and also cheap electricity.

Ucy

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Compare rates on different exchanges & swap.

One of the most important things in my opinion is to have a mining sector that is very decentralized/antifragile/safe and is able to thrive in unsafe and crisis ridden world. The current large but few miners takeover doesn't sound antifragile/decentralized to me. I believe satoshi wanted censorship resistant Bitcoin. Large, few and stationary miners kind of weaken and contradict the censorship resistant ideal. There should be other ways(or additional ways) to incentives small miners (A regularly deflationary Bitcoin would have helped in this case) and even make mining energy efficient.

snipie

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Quote from: avikz on April 28, 2020, 11:16:57 AM

So to sustain the current mining profitability, the price has to double as the reward will be halved. But if large number of miners go out of the business - no one will escape the suffering! Expect increase in fees and longer waiting time as an immediate result of upcoming halving.

Like every halving there will be casualties. Small miners will stop their activities. Immediate price rise is unlikely to happen and even if it did, it will be less than the double tho, so yes mining fees risk to increase from now on and in the next upcoming years it will be harder for miners.

avikz

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Possibly yes, if the price doesn't increase or remains at the current level. So purchasing bitcoin from the market instead of mining will be cheaper for the majority of the miners. But those who are using alternative sources like wind power or solar panel will be exceptions for obvious reasons.

So to sustain the current mining profitability, the price has to double as the reward will be halved. But if large number of miners go out of the business - no one will escape the suffering! Expect increase in fees and longer waiting time as an immediate result of upcoming halving.

Sanugarid

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The halving event is coming in a few weeks, rewards for mining will decrease to half specifically from 12.5 BTC to 6.25BTC. Small miners won't be able to contain a very much low block reward it will be lesser than what they are going to spend in mining. Huge mining entities can go on while the small ones will be forced to quit unless they expand their operation.

Poolin.com is one of the mining pools out there, its Vice President talked about it and gave his opinion, " Miners using old equipment will have to disconnect after halving"

The time has come for small miners isn't it?

Topic: Mining: Halving will destroy the half of us. (Read 858 times)