Mining Hardware - Purchase Method Poll

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

We already have a closed membership in the COOP. Not taking more people right now while we are producing boards.

But ya start one up I highly recommend it. Find some like minded people get a few in areas where fabrication is cheap.

Avalon chips right now... but we are going to look at whatever is available. BFL not really something I think anyone can rely on, besides given the overclocking of Avalon chips it really seems like a no brainer to stick with Avalon till they come out with the GEN2 chips. Cost of Klondike production is so low that it beats everything out there right now and if we get some K64s going we are set. (IF THEY EVEN WORK THAT IS! Risky Grin

).

kosmokramer

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

The Assman: CEO of Vandelay Import/Export, Inc.

Quote from: Bicknellski on June 25, 2013, 04:02:25 AM

More than merit.

11 people with me see the benefits in our COOP. 10K chips just ordered at cost no escrow required, we are working on getting fabrication set up this coming week or two.

COOPs are "managed" by everyone. Compensation is only necessary should they outlay more time. Everyone takes a turn running the COOP none are salary takers.

ZERO FEES.
POOLED MINING.
GROUP BUYS.
REGIONAL FABRICATION.
WORLDWIDE SALES & DISTRIBUTION.

I'm very interested. PM me any details and maybe we can do something.

All Avalon chips? Any work on BFL yet? Also, where are you located??

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

More than merit.

11 people with me see the benefits in our COOP. 10K chips just ordered at cost no escrow required, we are working on getting fabrication set up this coming week or two.

COOPs are "managed" by everyone. Compensation is only necessary should they outlay more time. Everyone takes a turn running the COOP none are salary takers.

ZERO FEES.
POOLED MINING.
GROUP BUYS.
REGIONAL FABRICATION.
WORLDWIDE SALES & DISTRIBUTION.

kosmokramer

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

The Assman: CEO of Vandelay Import/Export, Inc.

Quote from: Bicknellski on June 25, 2013, 01:38:16 AM

Start a coop and buy everything at cost and have everything fabricated and shipped at cost for members.

That idea has some merit! So there's a fee to join the coop I assume, but then everything after that is cost. What do you think a fair membership fee would be?

Also, how would the person who manages the coop be compensated for their time over the years?

Bicknellski

hero member

Activity: 924

Merit: 1000

Start a coop and buy everything at cost and have everything fabricated and shipped at cost for members.

kosmokramer

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

The Assman: CEO of Vandelay Import/Export, Inc.

Quote from: ?? on ??

You want exclusive agreement because you got screwed by the recent price drop, but it does not change the fact that exclusive arrangements are inefficient and against the free market.

I've clarified this in other areas but perhaps not here - I am not necessarily seeking an exclusive agreement. I should have said "authorized" from the beginning, but was just using terms I saw in friedcat's recent post. I don't entertain thoughts of monopolies, oligopolies, etc - I just want to continue to provide outstanding customer service.

I don't necessarily agree with some of the things being said, and don't appreciate people telling me what I'm seeking. To be clear: I desire nothing more than to be able to keep honorably serving my customers with steady inventory that I can ship same-day at a fair price; I'm pretty simple.

Short of that, I will be relegated to requiring payment up front in the form of group buys, which maybe is what you guys want anyway (as revealed by the results of this survey).

In the end, if you're all happy with the service I'm providing, that's all that matters.

kosmokramer

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

The Assman: CEO of Vandelay Import/Export, Inc.

Quote from: webjoe on June 24, 2013, 09:58:50 PM

Personally, I think a healthy mix is good for the ecosystem. People have different needs and different tolerance, and the variety helps address whatever people value.

Agreed! As an ambitious re-seller though, I'm interested in seeing where most of the demand lies!

webjoe

member

Activity: 82

Merit: 10

Personally, I think a healthy mix is good for the ecosystem. People have different needs and different tolerance, and the variety helps address whatever people value.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: kosmokramer on June 24, 2013, 07:04:20 PM

Thanks for sharing your opinions everyone! As I said from the start, I don't think any purchase method is necessarily superior over the other; as a re-seller, I was just interested in seeing what you preferred. Perhaps I've been serving the wrong market - look at those who prefer pre-orders!

I originally thought customers preferred in-stock, average priced merchandise, to an extent where they would protect/support merchants who offered such service. Risk comes inherent with inventory (particularly so with ASICs!), which is why I'm doing my best to reach an agreement where that can be minimized to a point where I (and others) can focus just on selling/servicing and not having to worry if tomorrow morning, our inventory will be worthless.

Poll has been locked - apologies to those of you who feel it was "rigged" or designed in a way to be biased. I don't claim to be an expert in data collection - just typed up some questions late at night trying to gauge my audience!

Fair play buddy, I added a link to one of your other threads a moment ago as someone started a thread looking for a USB miner to purchase now. Go for it...

kosmokramer

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

The Assman: CEO of Vandelay Import/Export, Inc.

Thanks for sharing your opinions everyone! As I said from the start, I don't think any purchase method is necessarily superior over the other; as a re-seller, I was just interested in seeing what you preferred. Perhaps I've been serving the wrong market - look at those who prefer pre-orders!

I originally thought customers preferred in-stock, average priced merchandise, to an extent where they would protect/support merchants who offered such service. Risk comes inherent with inventory (particularly so with ASICs!), which is why I'm doing my best to reach an agreement where that can be minimized to a point where I (and others) can focus just on selling/servicing and not having to worry if tomorrow morning, our inventory will be worthless.

Poll has been locked - apologies to those of you who feel it was "rigged" or designed in a way to be biased. I don't claim to be an expert in data collection - just typed up some questions late at night trying to gauge my audience!

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: ak49er on June 24, 2013, 06:18:36 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 24, 2013, 06:05:17 PM

Agreed and by that logic who in their right mind would by an ASICminer USB dongle anyway?! (Aside collector/novelty value)

Hey!!! I never once said or implied that I was in my right mind!! Cheesy

ak49er

sr. member

Activity: 672

Merit: 250

Buy, sell and store real cryptocurrencies

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 24, 2013, 06:05:17 PM

Agreed and by that logic who in their right mind would by an ASICminer USB dongle anyway?! (Aside collector/novelty value)

Hey!!! I never once said or implied that I was in my right mind!! Cheesy

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: ak49er on June 24, 2013, 05:51:21 PM

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 24, 2013, 05:42:45 PM

Without competition there is no 'best terms', just; 'terms', like them, or not.

Which by definition would then be the best terms, (and also the worst), and it would be up to me as to whether to stick to buying from a reseller, joining a group buy or looking for a different product. There's still competition. If a manufacturer/reseller price themselves out of the market it's because there are still alternatives. I'm not about to cut off my nose to spite my face and steadfastly refuse to buy from anyone but a high-priced reseller, but if I deem the terms to be reasonable, even if they are the only terms available, then I'll buy.

There's value in offering people what they want, but it's not infinite.

Agreed and by that logic who in their right mind would by an ASICminer USB dongle anyway?! (Aside collector/novelty value)

ak49er

sr. member

Activity: 672

Merit: 250

Buy, sell and store real cryptocurrencies

Quote from: Bitcoinorama on June 24, 2013, 05:42:45 PM

Without competition there is no 'best terms', just; 'terms', like them, or not.

Which by definition would then be the best terms, (and also the worst), and it would be up to me as to whether to stick to buying from a reseller, joining a group buy or looking for a different product. There's still competition. If a manufacturer/reseller price themselves out of the market it's because there are still alternatives. I'm not about to cut off my nose to spite my face and steadfastly refuse to buy from anyone but a high-priced reseller, but if I deem the terms to be reasonable, even if they are the only terms available, then I'll buy.

There's value in offering people what they want, but it's not infinite.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

Quote from: ak49er on June 24, 2013, 05:40:44 PM

Quote from: kendog77 on June 24, 2013, 03:49:02 PM

This poll is biased.

In my experience, a non-exclusive In-Stock Re-Seller is almost always less expensive than an exclusive In-Stock Re-Seller due to increased competition.

This.

I'm only interested in buying from an in-stock reseller, be they exclusive, non-exclusive or whatever. (As long as they haven't just fallen off the back of a truck!) The reseller that offers the best terms is the one that gets my business, (price+shipping cost+delivery options).

Without competition there is no 'best terms', just; 'terms', like them, or not.

ak49er

sr. member

Activity: 672

Merit: 250

Buy, sell and store real cryptocurrencies

Quote from: kendog77 on June 24, 2013, 03:49:02 PM

This poll is biased.

In my experience, a non-exclusive In-Stock Re-Seller is almost always less expensive than an exclusive In-Stock Re-Seller due to increased competition.

This.

I'm only interested in buying from an in-stock reseller, be they exclusive, non-exclusive or whatever. (As long as they haven't just fallen off the back of a truck!) The reseller that offers the best terms is the one that gets my business, (price+shipping cost+delivery options).

I think you're going down the wrong path with exclusive vs non-exclusive. Stick to in stock with reliable supply options and you'll be OK.

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

How can exclusive be less expensive than non-exclusive. Without competition there is no competitive pricing.

Who here, reading this actually admits picking option two? Anyone??

lithiumfinn

newbie

Activity: 40

Merit: 0

Quote from: kendog77 on June 24, 2013, 03:49:02 PM

This poll is biased.

In my experience, a non-exclusive In-Stock Re-Seller is almost always less expensive than an exclusive In-Stock Re-Seller due to increased competition.

Yeah, no kidding. It's also a bit odd to put the dollar signs next to each option. It nudges you towards that option because you'll think "Oh, this one is cheaper".

Bitcoinorama

hero member

Activity: 532

Merit: 500

This is odd as earlier when I cast my vote, no one had picked choice two;

In-stock re-seller (exclusive) - arrives in 1-2 days

Yet now it leads, when all the other choices appear to bounce around the same numbers as earlier, and the OP is trying to become an exclusive US re-seller for ASICminer.

Something seems off here, yes I'm being genuine. I think it's rigged. I know for a fact no one had picked choice two earlier as I made a mental note of the choice that remained unpicked.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.2569237

kendog77

hero member

Activity: 742

Merit: 500

This poll is biased.

In my experience, a non-exclusive In-Stock Re-Seller is almost always less expensive than an exclusive In-Stock Re-Seller due to increased competition.

mgio

hero member

Activity: 546

Merit: 500

Pre-order is the ONLY way you will ever make money back on mining.

If you wait long enough that you are buying from stock or from a reseller then you are too late!

Why would someone sell something that they could make more money with if they just kept the hardware for themselves??

Minor Miner

legendary

Activity: 2478

Merit: 1020

Be A Digital Miner

Quote from: Mabsark on June 24, 2013, 02:14:48 PM

The best method, which was not listed, would be in stock directly from the manufacturer.

Yes, I think the poll is irrelevant since the above is the only way people with a brain will buy on an exponential HR chart. Who would pre-pay when you cannot accurately predict delivery date?

Mabsark

legendary

Activity: 826

Merit: 1004

The best method, which was not listed, would be in stock directly from the manufacturer.

atariguy

full member

Activity: 364

Merit: 100

All I want is a product that is in-stock when I order that will pay for itself within a couple weeks. Drop the USB miner price another 50% and it will still be a little over-priced compared to the cheapest BFL product, but it will at least pay for itself.

And I don't care who I get it from, as long as I actually get it within a few days of ordering.

notlist3d

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

Quote from: kosmokramer on June 24, 2013, 07:55:16 AM

I would actually just love to see what everyone values. It appears it's leaning more towards group buys which is interesting and unexpected! If that's what the community desires, you've got some damn capable folks around here who are comfortable offering group buys and would no doubt continue to serve you well!

Again it comes to ROI. The community will care about lowest price (for the most part). There will be a few exceptions just check Ebay and there are proof of this.

Quote from: kosmokramer on June 24, 2013, 07:55:16 AM

Just as it's impractical for a company to ask its customers to "wait for them to grow", I'm not sure it's practical to require a company to hold onto $1.1 Million worth of inventory that, yesterday, was worth $2.2 Million just to have a shot at being a successful re-seller. That seems like gambling, not business, and I think we can both agree that when it comes to gambling, the house always wins Wink

Fact is not all businesses make it. Having a substantial amount of capital is important for most starting a business. A reseller that sells 1 item is especially at risk of losing money if their are changes to their product. This includes new versions, and yes price cuts as you saw yesterday.

Again i do HOPE you to succeed i personally would love to have a company with stock at price that meets group buy rates. And even better if you get huge and are able to carry stock of all kinds of custom hardware a click away anytime.

kosmokramer

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

The Assman: CEO of Vandelay Import/Export, Inc.

Quote from: notlist3d on June 24, 2013, 07:45:04 AM

I think this pole is for you to try to get exclusive rights

I would actually just love to see what everyone values. It appears it's leaning more towards group buys which is interesting and unexpected! If that's what the community desires, you've got some damn capable folks around here who are comfortable offering group buys and would no doubt continue to serve you well!

Quote from: notlist3d on June 24, 2013, 07:45:04 AM

If you want to be the number 1 business selling these in US buy 1000 of the Block Erupter USB and sell at cheaper price.

Just as it's impractical for a company to ask its customers to "wait for them to grow", I'm not sure it's practical to require a company to hold onto $1.1 Million worth of inventory that, yesterday, was worth $2.2 Million just to have a shot at being a successful re-seller. That seems like gambling, not business, and I think we can both agree that when it comes to gambling, the house always wins Wink

notlist3d

legendary

Activity: 1456

Merit: 1000

It all comes down to ROI. I think this pole is for you to try to get exclusive rights, depending on what that means is what will determine if everyone wants it. If you want to be the number 1 business selling these in US buy 1000 of the Block Erupter USB and sell at cheaper price.

Honestly i hope you can provide things like having stock, and knowing when it ships and provide us at cheapest price. But unless your company has a substantial amount of capital I'm afraid its unpractical to ask us to wait for you to grow to compete with group purchases.

kosmokramer

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

The Assman: CEO of Vandelay Import/Export, Inc.

Quote from: Flying Hellfish on June 24, 2013, 07:14:51 AM

It's about the numbers not who I pay for the product, for me.

Practically? Yes. In reality? The only thing that matters is who you give your money to. They decide when/if you are going to get the product you paid for and if the numbers they promised you in the first place are even true!

Anecdote: my brother and I both participated in separate (but pretty similar) block erupter USB group buys. Made payments at the same exact time (in fact, he paid a little more for his because he "felt" more comfortable with that buy). His took 3-4 weeks to arrive. Mine arrived in about 1-2 weeks. Why 2x as long for his? Turns out, his less-than-honest seller was mining with his product for two weeks :/ It was at that time that I decided carrying product in-stock was the way to go.

I've earned a lot of customers simply because word has spread that if I take your money, I'm going to ship your product that day. True, I can't compete with the group buy pricing (yet), but you also don't have to worry about your group buy package getting stuck in customs for two weeks with me! The price and time you see advertised is what you get - no surprises.

I do understand your point though Wink

I think the fewer unknowns, the better, and the cheapest method with the fewest unknowns appears to be in-stock exclusive re-seller.

Flying Hellfish

legendary

Activity: 1764

Merit: 1756

Verified Bernie Bro - Feel The Bern!

I don't care about the purchase mechanism (except the pre-order full payment non-sense as I will likely never participate that way), what I care about is breaking even and then making a positive ROI. It's about the numbers not who I pay for the product, for me.

kosmokramer

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

The Assman: CEO of Vandelay Import/Export, Inc.

Quote from: af_newbie on June 24, 2013, 06:57:50 AM

In-Stock Re-Seller (exclusive) is not always cheaper and non-exclusive.
Exclusive re-sellers can try to lock/corner the market.

I've learned there are always exceptions Wink

I like the idea of a manufacturer choosing an exclusive re-seller who is trusted and liked by the community and portrays the manufacturer always in a favorable image. In addition, I share your concerns about cornering the market. For that reason, the performance of the relationship should be regularly re-examined to prevent such shenanigans.

Perhaps an outlet (forum) where customers can express feedback for the current exclusive re-seller(s) and point out ones who don't appear to be abiding by the terms and conditions set forth in the re-seller agreement? Ones who consistently don't make the cut are out!

I would love to be able to continue to offer low prices (set by manufacturer), fast shipping, and large inventory as an ASICMiner re-seller. I just wonder if these are the principles that others share - if so, I hope ASICMiner listens!

I wonder how the exclusive ASICM re-sellers are doing in Canada, etc. currently - I'm unaware of what their agreements are at the moment but I know of some line-items that I would insist on as an exclusive merchant (pricing protection, large inventory, good communication).

kosmokramer

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

The Assman: CEO of Vandelay Import/Export, Inc.

Quote from: AFox on June 24, 2013, 06:44:47 AM

The best would be to order from an exclusive re-seller that has the product in stock.
But in reality, you will only find pre-orders or group-buys linked to those pre-orders.

Aha! Best for you may not be best for others. Some people want absolute cheapest no matter the wait!

I happen to agree with you though, which is why I'm requesting to be an ASICMiner reseller - I'd love to continue to offer low prices (set by manufacturer) and same-day shipping on large inventory without the fear of being undercut by someone else.

af_newbie

legendary

Activity: 2702

Merit: 1468

In-Stock Re-Seller (exclusive) is not always cheaper than non-exclusive.

Exclusive resellers can try to lock/corner the market. Might work for some, might backfire for others (who fail to understand how prices are discovered in the free market).

Any exclusive resellers outside of bitcoin usually have higher prices than a guy in a van down the river.

AFox

hero member

Activity: 539

Merit: 517

The best would be to order from an exclusive re-seller that has the product in stock.
But in reality, you will only find pre-orders or group-buys linked to those pre-orders.

kosmokramer

sr. member

Activity: 266

Merit: 250

The Assman: CEO of Vandelay Import/Export, Inc.

I've noticed there are a variety of ways to purchase mining hardware - none of which are necessarily superior over the other.

Some offer you the cheapest prices but, as a result, often require you to wait a little longer prior to receiving hardware (group buy, pre-order).
Some offer immediate shipping from just one source, often at an average to below average cost (In-Stock Exclusive Re-Seller) - this is because, being exclusive, the re-seller can afford to keep more stock on hand and sell at a lower price - stock will continue to move as there is no risk of being "undercut"
Some offer immediate shipping from several sources (your choice), often at a slightly higher price (In-Stock Non-exclusive Re-Seller) - this is because, being non-exclusive, re-sellers are discouraged from keeping stock on hand (fear of getting stuck with dead inventory due to competition) - less stock means they tend to charge more per unit in order to achieve set profit margins

I'm curious as to what the community as a whole values most - instant discount (group buy/preorder), instant shipping (Non-exclusive In-Stock Re-Seller), or a healthy mix of the two (Exclusive In-Stock Re-Seller)

Topic: Mining Hardware - Purchase Method Poll (Read 1886 times)