Mnemonic words Known and target address known but order missing - Please help

nc50lc

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Quote from: pjkgijp on October 13, 2024, 05:47:30 AM

Yes I did use BTCRecover and followed all the replies but no luck.
-snip-
If none of these characters (*<>) are present, The seed is in the correct order and I can get the keys. Does anyone know what type of word mixing is done here?

It's hard to get the picture of the issue with those information but if it's the words' arrangement you're asking:
The correct order relies on the "checksum" at the end of the bit-equivalent form of the mnemonic seed.
Here are the specs: github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039

But since we're talking about an existing mnemonic phrase here, just looking for combinations with a correct checksum is not enough
as it will likely produce valid but totally different mnemonic seed at approximate chance based from the checksum bit's size and the number of given words.
What BTCRecover does is to check a candidate valid combination if it will be able derive the given address/pubKey/xpub with the common or specified derivation paths.

Quote from: pjkgijp on October 13, 2024, 05:47:30 AM

I also want to clarify that some mnemonics were written between "<" and ">" characters or have a "*" before it.
If they do, BTCRecover says the words are in incorrect order.

Just don't include those to your BTCRecover "token file" since those aren't in BIP39's word list: github.com/bitcoin/bips/blob/master/bip-0039/bip-0039-wordlists.md

Easteregg69

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I use 24 words.

No help. So what you wanna carry bag or what? I switch to youtube.

pjkgijp

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Yes I did use BTCRecover and followed all the replies but no luck.

I also want to clarify that some mnemonics were written between "<" and ">" characters or have a "*" before it.
If they do, BTCRecover says the words are in incorrect order.

If none of these characters (*<>) are present, The seed is in the correct order and I can get the keys. Does anyone know what type of word mixing is done here?

Thanks!

nc50lc

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Quote from: pjkgijp on October 12, 2024, 12:07:27 PM

Some seeds I was able to recover return an invalid checksum.

First of all, since you've posted this here, have you used BTCRecover's seedrecover.py and followed the replies to recover those mnemonic seed?
AFAIK, BTCRecover wont output in those formats.

If not, it's off-topic and you should create a new topic telling how you recovered those.
And provide more information like which software and commands you've used so people can paint a better picture of the situation.

Quote from: BitMaxz on October 12, 2024, 07:07:22 PM

So I think that is BIP39 and the error checksum invalid is the error come from Electrum if you paste a BIP39 seed with some extra character or if its not recognized as seed this error will come up.

Electrum will display "Unknown BIP39 Wordlist".

BitMaxz

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Quote from: Cricktor on October 12, 2024, 06:09:20 PM

Which software do you use to verify the checksum? Do we speak here of the BIP39 or Electrum or which checksum exactly?
.

I don't think it's Electrum since the standard way to create wallet on Electrum only generates 12 words phrase unless you generated it through command/console to generate 24 words seed that is valid as electrum seed.

So I think that is BIP39 and the error checksum invalid is the error come from Electrum if you paste a BIP39 seed with some extra character or if its not recognized as seed this error will come up.

Cricktor

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Quote from: pjkgijp on October 12, 2024, 12:07:27 PM

~~~

Which software do you use to verify the checksum? Do we speak here of the BIP39 or Electrum or which checksum exactly?

I can only guess, that the words in direct contact to the "special characters" like <>, * are not properly recognised as the word they are. Such special characters should not be part of an e.g. BIP39 recovery words backup.

Mnemonic recovery words, here BIP39 in particular, represent the following:
12 recovery words encode a stream of 128 random entropy bits (here named stream128) followed by 4 bits of SHA256(stream128). This stream of 132bits is split in twelve 11-bit chunks and every of it represents an index of the BIP39 wordlist's words.
24 recovery words encode a stream of 256 random entropy bits (here named stream256) followed by 8 bits of SHA256(stream256). This stream of 264bits is split in twentyfour 11-bit chunks and every of it represents an index of the BIP39 wordlist's words.

pjkgijp

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Some seeds I was able to recover return an invalid checksum.

I have a seeds written between a lesser than an greather than sign. There is something wrong with these.

Example records:

"" gives checksum error
"*" gives checksum error
"*word1 word2 ... word24" gives checksum error
"word1 word2 ... word24" is fine.

Does anyone know why?

Cricktor

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If you're not an experienced recoverer and fluent with btcrecover why don't wannabee recover "experts" first verify their procedure and setup by using a test case where the solution is known. Take a valid 12-word BIP39 mnemonic recovery seed and a known address of known derivation path, mix the words somewhat arbitrarily and try to find the solution you already know! It's well invested time and energy.

If you can't find the solution for such a test case, you very likely won't find a real word's sequence recovery solution.

nc50lc

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Quote from: hellishgoblin234 on March 27, 2024, 09:55:12 AM

Perhaps I'm being too harsh too fast, but I call this request for help bullshit, there is no known 12 seed words here. Just greed and misconceptions.

Yeah, first he mentioned "client of his friend", but later "his client".
It's as if he's somehow offering a recovery service while not knowing how to do the job he's offering, posted this in the guise of helping a friend.

What went wrong is he didn't even authenticated his client's claims through the ridiculous story alone, if it's legitimate, it would've been arranged by now even with CPU.

But the good thing is: this thread can be used as reference in case someone has misarranged 12-word mnemonic seed.

hellishgoblin234

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Perhaps I'm being too harsh too fast, but I call this request for help bullshit, there is no known 12 seed words here. Just greed and misconceptions.

nc50lc

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Quote from: philipma1957 on December 30, 2023, 04:28:42 AM

bc1qinal276kkvrkn36a33xvly1f89spcdkp012zsz has 42 characters.

Seems like this is a result of an image-to-text tool, the correct address should be "bc1qlmal276kkvrkn36m33xvlylfgqspcdkp0l2zsz" which is valid.
Blockexplorer link: blockstream.info/address/bc1qlmal276kkvrkn36m33xvlylfgqspcdkp0l2zsz

Quote from: philipma1957 on December 30, 2023, 04:28:42 AM

bc1qinal276kkvrkn36a33xvly1f89spcd has 34 characters.

I am not sure he has a good address

If it's the usual Witness v0 bech32 address, it should be 42 characters unless it's p2wsh.

philipma1957

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bc1qinal276kkvrkn36a33xvly1f89spcdkp012zsz has 42 characters.

bc1qinal276kkvrkn36a33xvly1f89spcd has 34 characters.

I am not sure he has a good address

are not bc1 34 characters long ?

his image seems to show a 42 character address. btw when I looked these up neither one the 42 or shorter 34 show as a real address.

https://imgur.com/a/Iv5tLsM

I did a screen shot and moved it to talk img it looks like he has a bad address to me

LoyceV

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Quote from: iconbtcx on December 30, 2023, 01:45:44 AM

i think there might be possibility that the guy wanted to use simple blockchain wallet instead of using complex hardware wallets, and the security of blockchain also very good.

None of this makes sense. Blockchain's web wallet has terrible security, and I've seen countless topics of people who can't access their funds anymore. Hardware wallets aren't complicated at all.

iconbtcx

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hai guys,
in 2021 is the only transaction where there is an incoming of 2500 btc blockchain is most tursted since 2010 when bitcoin is officially launched and easy to store coins, instead of complex hardware wallets, i think there might be possibility that the guy wanted to use simple blockchain wallet instead of using complex hardware wallets, and the security of blockchain also very good.
If he is a techie then he might be used wallets like armory, or some other strong methods to store his coins. i am thinking about the path option that i gave as some one suggested in this forum it might be any where with clinet_id like m/84/0/0 or m/84/0/1/0 i want to give a try without out the option bip-32-path in cmd for seedrecovery.
Thank you

o_e_l_e_o

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Quote from: nc50lc on December 29, 2023, 12:55:14 AM

If you want to search multiple paths, specify those paths in "/btcrecover-1.12.0/derivationpath-lists/BTC.txt" (comment-out the other default paths) or provide multiple paths in --bip32-path arg.

Change this BTC.txt file to something along the lines of this:

Code:

m/84'/0'/0'/1
m/84'/0'/1'/0
m/84'/0'/1'/1
m/84'/0'/2'/0
m/84'/0'/2'/1

Keep going with as many additional account numbers as you want, checking the receiving and change paths for each one. Each additional path you add will prolong your search time, however. Then run the same command again, but leave out the --bip32-path argument. Since you are specifiying --wallet-type BIP39, btcrecover will check all the paths you specify in the BTC.txt file. You might also want to drop the --addr-limit to a smaller number to speed things up a bit.

I agree with Loyce though, this sounds like nonsense.

LoyceV

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Quote from: iconbtcx on December 28, 2023, 10:04:34 PM

now i am doubting the genuineness of project i got from my client
~
My client said its a blockchain wallet

Who keeps a hundred million bucks in a web wallet?

Quote from: iconbtcx on December 23, 2023, 11:39:46 PM

he has the 12 words mnemonics but when he is trying to restore the wallet through blockchain its showing error invalid bip39 checksum

Who enters the seed words to his $100M on a website?

I find this very hard to believe.

nc50lc

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Quote from: iconbtcx on December 28, 2023, 10:04:34 PM

I really appreciate your time and effort to help me i checked the first 1000 address using seedrecover with bip-32 path m/84/0/0 but i found nothing,

The path should be "m/84'/0'/0'/0" but your screenshot shows that the correct path is used anyways.

Quote from: iconbtcx on December 28, 2023, 10:04:34 PM

My client said its a blockchain wallet

Blockchain online wallet is known to enable the user to create additional "wallets" under the same wallet_id.
The subsequent wallets are derived with a different path at the "account_index".

For example: If the address is from your client's second wallet, the path that should be given to seedrecover is "m/84'/0'/1'/0";
for the third Bitcoin wallet that he created; "m/84'/0'/2'/0", and so on.

And --bip32-path is specifically pointing to the external path which are your receiving addresses,
Blockchain is using change addresses although its not displayed in the 'Wallets & Addresses' page.
So it's worth searching the internal paths as well, which is: "m/84'/0'/0'/1" for the first account_index's internal_chain.

If you want to search multiple paths, specify those paths in "/btcrecover-1.12.0/derivationpath-lists/BTC.txt" (comment-out the other default paths) or provide multiple paths in --bip32-path arg.

iconbtcx

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Hello friends,
I really appreciate your time and effort to help me i checked the first 1000 address using seedrecover with bip-32 path m/84/0/0 but i found nothing, now i am doubting the genuineness of project i got from my client
https://imgur.com/a/Iv5tLsM I am sorry friends if i had disappointed you, i should have surely shared something to all if had been able to crack it. If have any genuine projects of recovery please let me know i have 26 GPUS and various softwares and programns for cracking, My client said its a blockchain wallet
Thank you
U Kosal Ram

nc50lc

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Quote from: iconbtcx on December 26, 2023, 09:09:28 PM

Even though i have drivers and everything updated but its showing 0 p/s but i can hear gpus started whirling shall i have to wait.

Since you're using Windows, check your Task manager and go to "Performance" tab to see if your GPUs are being used.
But that doesn't tell if seedrecover is actually working behind that 0P/s.

Also, it may be related to the automatically set --opencl-workgroup-size of 51200;
The correct size for a 12-word BIP39 seed should be 16 times your GPU's max work group size that can be checked in --opencl-info.

Quote from: iconbtcx on December 26, 2023, 05:39:22 AM

-snip- and please guide me how to enable multiple gpus using --opencl-devices ID1 ID2 like that with an example i have four gpus

Its default is already set to "all" so all devices are being used if all those 4 are NVIDIA GPUs under platform: 0

iconbtcx

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Thanks guys for your support,
Even though i have drivers and everything updated but its showing 0 p/s but i can hear gpus started whirling shall i have to wait.
Thank you

nc50lc

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Quote from: iconbtcx on December 26, 2023, 05:39:22 AM

I counting on btcrecover seedrecover if i want to search of the address in definitive path shall i have to give option --bip32-path m/84'/0'/0'/0 or shall i avoid this,

It'll be faster with it, in general it searches for the paths listed in "/derivationpath-lists/BTC.txt" regardless of the address type,
with --bip32-path arg or by commenting-out the unneeded lines, it will only search those 1000 address_index in one derivation path.

But you'll have to make sure that your wallet is using the specified path or you'll get false-negative result.

o_e_l_e_o

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Does it run if you leave out the --enable-opencl argument? If it does, then it probably means you haven't installed the correct drivers or libraries for your GPU.

iconbtcx

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https://imgur.com/a/NWBT4Jh
why its not working

iconbtcx

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Thanks brothers for your valuable support,
I counting on btcrecover seedrecover if i want to search of the address in definitive path shall i have to give option --bip32-path m/84'/0'/0'/0 or shall i avoid this, and please guide me how to enable multiple gpus using --opencl-devices ID1 ID2 like that with an example i have four gpus
THanks for your valuable support and hope its good and we can able to recover i promise everyone who tried to help surely get rewards.
Fingers crossed brothers

o_e_l_e_o

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This is trivial to do using btcrecover.

First of all create a new text file with one word of the seed phrase per line. Something along the lines of this:

Code:

one
two
three
four
five
six
seven
eight
nine
ten
eleven
twelve

Then run the following command using btcrecover:

Code:

python seedrecover.py --no-eta --no-dupchecks --mnemonic-length 12 --language EN --dsw  --wallet-type BIP39 --addr-limit 1000 --addrs bc1qlmal276kkvrkn36m33xvlylfgqspcdkp0l2zsz --tokenlist ./PATH/TO/YOUR/FILE.txt

This will check every address between m/84/0'/0'/0/0 and m/84'/0'/0'/0/999 for every valid combination of your 12 words. If this is very slow on your hardware, you can experiment using GPU acceleration by following the instructions here and adding the relevant arguments to your command: https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/GPU_Acceleration/

satscraper

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Quote from: pbies on December 25, 2023, 08:59:56 AM

Code:

#!/usr/bin/env python3

import itertools

words = ['word1', 'word2', 'word3', 'word4', 'word5', 'word6', 'word7', 'word8', 'word9', 'word10', 'word11', 'word12']
permutations = list(itertools.permutations(words))

Total number of permutations: 479001600

That's 479 M.

OP needs to find SEED relevant to address that holds his stash rather than to get the full list of all possible permutations pertaining to his 12 scrambled words , thus the script you suggested is, in fact, useless for him.

To find what OP wants he needs to run seedrecover.py (or similar script) that perfectly does his job.

pbies

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Code:

#!/usr/bin/env python3

import itertools

words = ['word1', 'word2', 'word3', 'word4', 'word5', 'word6', 'word7', 'word8', 'word9', 'word10', 'word11', 'word12']
permutations = list(itertools.permutations(words))

Total number of permutations: 479001600

That's 479 M.

nc50lc

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Quote from: iconbtcx on December 25, 2023, 12:18:13 AM

THanks for your concern all i need is a gpu based permutation check

The post above this quoted reply supports select GPUs in the form of --enable-opencl command line arg.
But it is still experimental so it may or may not work; in my test, it worked in electrum wallet password recovery but not in BIP39 seed.
You likely have a different GPU and specs anyways; in any case, any decent CPU can still solve it in reasonable time.

Additionally, since you don't know the derivation path of the address, using a larger --addr-limit can drastically reduce its speed.
Just find a way to reduce the addresses to cross-check by utilizing options like --mpk to significantly speed it up if you know your xpub and even better with --bip32-path.

satscraper

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 25, 2023, 03:53:39 AM

Quote from: satscraper on December 25, 2023, 02:22:39 AM

Thanks. I watched that "Recover Scrambled 12 Word Seeds with BTCRecover" video and and was convinced in my correctness - the set 12 known words can be unscrabled with virtually no effort even with use of machine of moderate computational power. It took something around 50 minutes for guy to descramble BIP39 Seed phrase and even less time in the case of Electrum seed.

I am surprised it's that quick. But on the other hand, all words are known, and there is no need to bruteforce unknown words in any positions. Is it a requirement for such a quick recovery to know an address that belongs to the seed or the script type?

In fact , this is not surprising in those 4.790016∗10⁸ chances.

Address that belongs to the seed is among those parameters taken required by seedrecover.py . Amidst them are also address limit and derivation path. The latter is as important (I think) as address itself.

Pmalek

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Quote from: satscraper on December 25, 2023, 02:22:39 AM

Thanks. I watched that "Recover Scrambled 12 Word Seeds with BTCRecover" video and and was convinced in my correctness - the set 12 known words can be unscrabled with virtually no effort even with use of machine of moderate computational power. It took something around 50 minutes for guy to descramble BIP39 Seed phrase and even less time in the case of Electrum seed.

I am surprised it's that quick. But on the other hand, all words are known, and there is no need to bruteforce unknown words in any positions. Is it a requirement for such a quick recovery to know an address that belongs to the seed or the script type?

satscraper

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Quote from: DaveF on December 24, 2023, 08:08:24 AM

Did you take a look at

https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

and

https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Usage_Examples/2020-05-02_Descrambling_a_12_word_seed/Example_Descrambling_a_12_word_seed/

Should give you a general idea of what to do, how to do it and how long it will take.
With videos.

-Dave

Thanks. I watched that "Recover Scrambled 12 Word Seeds with BTCRecover" video and and was convinced in my correctness - the set 12 known words can be unscrabled with virtually no effort even with use of machine of moderate computational power. It took something around 50 minutes for guy to descramble BIP39 Seed phrase and even less time in the case of Electrum seed.

iconbtcx

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Hai guys thanks for your support
As seeing the calculations you had shared with me
I would like to mention the words are not 24 its 12
all we need to do is permutation check in those words each words should replace only once in the sequence
so 12p12 is just 479001600 combos
I think its not impossible.
THanks for your concern all i need is a gpu based permutation check

DaveF

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Did you take a look at

https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/

and

https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/Usage_Examples/2020-05-02_Descrambling_a_12_word_seed/Example_Descrambling_a_12_word_seed/

Should give you a general idea of what to do, how to do it and how long it will take.
With videos.

-Dave

satscraper

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Quote from: Pmalek on December 24, 2023, 05:49:02 AM

Yours has 12 words, but it would still be a difficult task. And there have been advancements in computer tech since 2017. Anyways, good luck!

With the premise "you have enough computing power to try 100 trillion combinations per second" taken from your example it would be an easy task as 12 words allow only 4.790016∗10⁸
distinguishable permutations rather than 6.2044840173323943936∗10²³ as in the case of 24 words.

What is the realistic computational power to perform a single 12 of 12 permutation?

Pmalek

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Does the client know the position of any of the words of the seed phrase or does he not have any idea what goes where? It would certainly speed things up if he knew, at least, some of the words. It's good that you have the funded address. I still think that BTCrecover is the way to go here. You can take a look at this guide that concerns the recovery of seed words.

If nothing else works, you could use a trusted paid service. Dave's wallet recovery services have been around for years, and he knows what he is doing. If you and your friend can't manage yourselves, contact Dave.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/bitcoin-wallet-recovery-services-for-forgotten-wallet-password-240779
https://www.walletrecoveryservices.com/

Someone who knows much more than me about these things estimated a long time ago that it would take 200 years to bruteforce the order of a 24-word seed. Yours has 12 words, but it would still be a difficult task. And there have been advancements in computer tech since 2017. Anyways, good luck!

Quote from: DannyHamilton on August 20, 2017, 11:34:43 AM

So, you have 24 words.

That means that you have 24 possibilities for the word in position number 1.

If you try each of those words in position number 1, that leaves 23 words to try in position number 2.

Try the first word, with each of the other 23 in the second position, then try the second word with each of the other 23 in the second position, then the third word with each of the other 23 in the second position and so on.

When you've done that, you'll have tried:24 X 23 = 552 different possibilities.

Each of those 552 possibilities will have 22 remaining words that you can try in the third position.

So that's:
552 X 22 = 12144 possible combinations of 3 out of the 24 words.
(Notice that's the same as 24 X 23 X 22 = 12144)

Then for each of those 12144 possibilities will have 21 remaining words that you can try in the third position

That's:
12144 X 21 = 255024 possible combinations of 4 out of the 24 words.
(Notice that's the same as 24 X 23 X 22 X 21= 255024)

Perhaps you can see now that as we continue, by the time you try all the 24 word combinations of 24 words, the pattern will repeat all the way to:
24 X 23 X 22 X 21 X 20 X 19 X 18 X 17 X 16 X 15 X 14 X 13 X 12 X 11 X 10 X 9 X 8 X 7 X 6 X 5 X 4 X 3 X 2 X 1 = ?
In maths that pattern is called a "factorial" and is represented as:
24!

If you do that multiplication, you'll find that the total number of combinations you'll have to try will be:
620448401733239439360000

That's about 6.2 X 10²³.

Lets assume that you have enough computing power to try 100 trillion combinations per second.

620448401733239439360000 combinations / 100000000000000 combinatins per second = 6204484017 seconds.

Since there are 60 seconds in a minute, that is:
6204484017 seconds / 60 seconds per minute = 103408066 minutes.

There are 60 minutes in an hour, so:
103408066 minutes / 60 minutes per hour = 1723467 hours.

There are 24 hours in a day...
1723467 hours / 24 hours per day = 71811 days.

There are about 365.25 days per year...
71811 days / 365.25 days per year = 196.6 years.

If you actually had the ability to try 100 trillion combinations per second, then it's going to take you nearly 200 years of trying non-stop 24 hours a day to try all the combinations.

If the number of attempts you can make per second is less, then obviously it's going to take you longer than that.

The only way you are going to be able to find the right combination in your lifetime is if you already have some of the words in the right order, or if you can remember what order some of the words belong in. Knowing for certain the position of just 1 word reduces the effort required by a factor of 24. Knowing for certain the position of just 2 words reduces the effort by a factor of 552.

Using our "100 trillion combinations per second" example, knowing for certain the position of 1 word reduces the time required to try all possibilities from 196.6 years to:
196.6 / 24 = 8.2 years.

Knowing for certain the position of 2 words reduces the time required to try all possibilities to:
196.6 / 552 = 0.36 years (about 4.3 months)

iconbtcx

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Mizogg bro has given me one its excellent one but taking long time it takes 2 days just to move to fourth position he developed an excellent code permutation and iter based
We need some solid gpu code bro we have lot of gpus for scrambled mnemonic recovery

pbies

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This can be done with itertools in Python.

I have already mixing script to do that.

iconbtcx

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Hai guys,

Thanks for your suggestions but btcrecover is replacing seeds with unknown words like 4 phases i tried its not that much worth the shot i think and finder outer also bit slow and systems hang up, its also not that much effective because we dont know exact path location of address means m/84/0/0/0-1000 it may be any where in the first 1000 address, i tried all these methods please i need if someone able to developed @jhoncartnell97 bip39-solver-gpu rust code when i am trying to build programn it throwing erros.
Guys please dont worry about reward i am a man of my word sure whom help i will definitely give some good reward.
Thank you
U Kosal Ram
ICONBTCX

Zaguru12

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Yes it will actually give an invalid checksum because the words are arranged in wrong order. You can use the btcrecover to get the arrangement check here https://btcrecover.readthedocs.io/en/latest/.

With the address format know it will be a bit easier, what you do is follow the command line for a segwit address (P2PWKH) recovery because that’s the format for your address

iconbtcx

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Hai friends,

i Got a project from my friend he has a client who has 2500btc in it and he has the 12 words mnemonics but when he is trying to restore the wallet through blockchain its showing error invalid bip39 checksum, i need any gpu based mnemonic recovery programn, as they asked me to keep project confidential i cant share the words though but i am happy to share btc address.
Btc address:- bc1qlmal276kkvrkn36m33xvlylfgqspcdkp0l2zsz
Kindly help me to recover i am trying powel gowny lost word in permuatation check mode first one to thousand address but gpu programn would be better cpu based programns taking long time

I tried to build jhoncartnell97 bip39-solver-gpu but its throwing some build errors
Those who assist seriously in recovering the mnemonics and btc a good reward will be promised
Thank you
U Kosal Ram
ICONBTCX

Topic: Mnemonic words Known and target address known but order missing - Please help (Read 753 times)