Topic: Moderators please close this thread (Read 3917 times)

try ctrl+f "lock topic". I'm sure you can lock your topic even with negative trust.

I can not lock the thread or i would.

Then simply lock the thread, you wingnut.

Why did you need to make a new thread, this one works just fine.


Bringing that up again?



EDIT-


You can't simply ask a mod to close it. Lock the goddamn thing first.

Please stop posting on this thread i have asked a moderator to close it.

Also our site is 100% provably fair.

It sure is.

Just like your site is provably fair.

This thread is closed please use our new thread at
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/btc-rafflecom-provably-fair-referral-system-player-vs-player-1312679

Where did you tell me that?

How does that make it ok?  I've played about 30 games, every single time nobody bought more than 1 ticket.



Why did you decide to change it?

What did you change about it?

I do not have that option. Hopefully a mod will lock it soon.

You can lock yourself this thread, by going left corner below and click Lock Topic and it should work.

You have no idea what your talking about nor does dooglus. You can check the time stamp of each hash, meaning we do not use pre-generated hashes.

Now stop posting on this thread.

The site has switched to a new "provably fair" system, which the operator announced in a new thread. Of course they never acknowledged that their old system was not provably fair.

Unfortunately the new system is also flawed, perhaps even more so than the previous one, as dooglus explains in another thread:

I have told you before that only happens when people only buy 1 ticket.

We also have changed our provably fair system.

Please do not reply to this thread we have asked the moderators to close it.

New thread at
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/btc-rafflecom-provably-fair-referral-system-player-vs-player-1312679

So no explanation then...

I don't have proof, just substantial evidence.

---

How about you show some evidence that proves the following, since youre the one claiming to have a provably fair site and all.

Here's what I see:

First player registers receives 1-10000 like this:



As more register, the 10000 is divided evenly with the first players range beginning with 1 and the last player receiving 10000, like this:



(Notice how T-Rex maintains the lowest range, beginning with "1"



When the lucky number is called, TRex still has "1"






If the lucky number is "1", whoever registered first will always win.

If the lucky number is "10000" the final player to register will always win.

This statement is false:


So is this one:

Looking forward to another excellent response from OP/OWNER like THIS ONE

If you are going to keep trying to bash us at least have some proof before doing so.

I suggest you make more fake accounts to comment in how great your site is since it's not obvious at all.

If anyone has any suggestions please let us know.

I have tried so many times to explain that. Thanks for your post. Also keep a watch on the site we are adding a ton to it. The referral system should be ready in a week or 2.

After reading this whole thread i wanted to see for my self if the site can be rigged and after testing the site with about 0.01 BTC, I can say there is no way the admin could rig it. Even if the admin could see the lucky numbers there is no way he could get that number buying tickets. i have tried over 30 times to get the number 6000, the game changes everyone's numbers each time a new ticket is purchased. Even if you are the first person to buy a ticket, and it looks like your going to get number 1-1000 by the end of the game so many people purchased tickets you will end up with something else.

Yes, i would suggest doing a DNS flush it sounds like your connecting to a old beta server version of the site.

Is this true? But why I saw nothing? No participant and no winners too? Am I the one with this problems? Seems like my browser is error, there is a couple of games that I could not play too recently. My bad Im sorry

Happy to hear you enjoyed the site.

NICE SITE!!! LOVE IT!

I think you are viewing the wrong lobby we have on average 1000 games played a day with a total of 0.5 BTC a day gambled. At the time of posting this we have 16 members in game. 

Are you for real? I dont think there is someone played there because I checked it there is still 0 participants and no recent winners there. I think you make this to just increase your posts

Thanks im glad to hear your enjoying the game, we are rolling out the referral system soon, and many more updates.

I've been using this site for a while and I am amazed how much I have earned so far. It's quite thrilling as well hehe...
Overall I think the site has made a great start and I will be excited to see how it improves overtime!

If you have tested the site you would know the first person does not always get the first ticket.

They aren't being ruthless, but I understand why it seems like that to you - you are trying to defend yourself and failing miserably.

RHarver has to be one of the most qualified people in the world of Bitcoin when it comes to commenting on the provably fair element of online gambling.  He's also a lot more intelligent than you.

---

These posts lead me to believe you don't even understand the difference between "proof" and "evidence".

---

This post makes me think you might not even understand how your own site works.  


I've tested your site, the first player to enter will always receive ticket #1.

Come back any time you actually have a suggestion. But please stop with the trolling/bashing posts.

I do... But w/e.

Either you're trolling or simply can't think seriously. Bye, have fun.


I'm working for tha nasa and the nsa and google and facebook. We're all trying to harm you with the super angry maniac threads. rwar, be scared

I'm not sure why you are comparing us to a dice game. It also sounds like you have never watched or understand how the game works.

If you have a suggestion feel free to post besides that i have asked the bustabit staff to stop posting on our thread. Its a clear attempt to harm us.

I'll show you what you're doing.


So now, let's take a look at the variable 'randomNumber'. It is currently 4, and I rolled a dice in my hand in real life so it's 100% random and fair right?

...

Right ?


If you truly think the '4' is a random number and that it's fair, then I have nothing else to say, you are dump.
If you say that the '4' is not random then, review your code...

Of course, you don't roll a dice... this is just an image to show that, on your lucky number generation, you have nothing fair happening there.
You are not running a dice game. For your game to be fair, you must have no control or know that random number because you could easily make as many fake accounts as you want to try to "snipe" the lucky ticket and win all the player's money.
Also, this game should have been built based on trust. Yet, all you did was spamming and annoying the players on other casino sites about it. That's not the way you get players.


Also, you're saying that you win 0.5 btc per day of profit. Let me doubt that.
You're only earning 1% of every game and your 'Total Today: 0.27650000 btc'... 1% of 0.27 gives 0.0027... Maths... wtf are you doing with it... And don't try to convince me that you had 50 btc played on your site one day. That's just not true.

Or are you finally admitting you were scamming the players?


Edit: Dice games have what we call a 'client-seed' to allow the player to have an impact on the random number which partially block the casino from rigging it. (some thing that you do not have)

I'm getting so sick of the bustabit staff posting here.

The site is provably fair you can see the before and after hash proving it. We can not change the hash nor can we pick the winning ticket our self. When buying tickets it is 100% random.

If this is not good enough for you i will happily hear your ideas.  

What if no one knows you're actually scamming them?
I don't want to be rude... But the majority of the people playing on casinos thinks that since there's something encrypted, then it's provably fair and won't try to look at if it's true or not by the simple fact that they don't understand a single thing about this.

Since your site is not provably fair and has been proven by many people already, I'm surprised that you didn't yet fixed it.
...
Probably because you don't know how. (That would be legit, no one can know everything... learning isn't a sin and no one would blame you, in fact I could help you fixing your game)
or
Probably you don't want to. (That would just mean you like to be able to rig the game times by times and get money from those players who don't understand what's really going on)

I played there without a problem. Thanks for the new site!(I'm bored of dice and shit.)

We are a legit business, have never scammed anyone. We have only been online for a few days, and already doing over 0.5 BTC a day. Trust me if we were scammers no one would be playing on our site.

Please reframe from posting false rumors about us created by competitors.

Kids like you won't get anywhere by spamming other sites. Scammers.

Cute dexon how about you bustabit kids stay off the thread.

You must not know how to code (nor maths) at all then for saying that.

That is not possible.

Any visitor to your site can clearly see that tickets are not randomly assigned, as I've already shown in this screencapture. The ranges in blue beside the players' names represent the tickets that a player holds. The n-th player to join will always hold tickets (n-1) * 10000/m +1 through n * 10000/m, where m is the total number of players. There is nothing random about it.

In addition, as I have also already explained, random ticket assignment would make it even easier and not harder to cheat with your current "provably fair" system:


Just to humour you I'll revise my explanation for that scenario:

The house generates the lucky number 6000 and an arbitrary number of legitimate players join the round. The house joins the round itself with a player they control and "randomly" assigns the winning ticket to that player, ensuring the win for the house.

Stop spamming on other sites it looks terrible, and dont even try to say it isnt you because no other site has done this before.

You can say Dexon is unpaid but no one believes you when all he does every day all day is promote your site.

Just the fact he gives your members money proves it.

I have told you 100 times i am not posting on your site. How many more times do i have to say that.

One thing i know for sure is people do not spend everyday all day on a website for free. It's very clear dexon is paid to promote bustabit he even is doing a lotto as a ploy to get people to bust. Cash out at X6 and you get entered into this fake lotto. He shows 0 proof the lotto isn't rigged or even shows any proof anyone has ever won. Stop acting like he don't work for you. Call it staff/admin what ever you want fact is he is part of your site.

Basically you and your staff have attacked my site i have proof. You and your staff been trying to bash my site sense day one.

I think its time for you guys to stop its getting old.

Ok so lets call him staff you can be the admin but clearly him and dexon work for you.

I was hoping you were going to stick to your words when you last said

"I won't be responding here further"

I have asked you and your staff to stay off my thread but you guys at this point are just acting like trolls.

He has nothing to do with bustabit? really? ok lets look at his profile

https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/jlfvr-685401

Makes an account goes to the bustabit thread then immediately after comes to my thread and attempts to bash it.

Looks like a admin to me. 

Ok lets review what you just said.

"just that it's not provably fair."

Next line.

"being honest I haven't even bothered to try understand your provably fair."

Is it just me or does that make 0 sense...

You also are claiming the other accounts who are being used to bash us have nothing to do with bustabit now with one look at the other accounts its clear as day they are other admins of bustabit.

You are incorrect the tickets are not "sequentially in the order' You could be the first player or the last player and get ticket number 1-1000 there is 100% no way for someone to pick there numbers its all 100% random.

Why do you bustabit kids keep trying to bash the site are you really that threatened by us?

If the ticket numbers were assigned to players randomly it would be easier—even trivial—for the house to cheat, not harder, because the house could simply "randomly" assign the winning ticket to a player it controls. There would be no way for players to verify that the tickets were indeed randomly allocated in your current system.

Instead, however, tickets appear to be split among players sequentially in the order in which they entered the game, as can be seen here.

This means it is not trivial for the house to cheat, but not terribly difficult either. Depending on the approximate number of players the house expects to join the round it will add its "puppets" at different points.

Let's assume that by counting how many players are currently online, how many participated in the last round and how many are able to participate in the next round, the house predicts that between three and seven players will join the round. Making accurate predictions within these bounds is fairly easy with the information the house has at its disposal.

Now the house waits for three legitimate players to join. If there are unexpectedly less players, the house simply passes and allows the round to end. If, on the other hand, three players A, B and C enter the round, the house will immediately also "purchase" tickets with three players D, E and F; which it controls, giving player D the winning ticket. Up to four additional legitimate players E, F, G and H can now join without the house losing the winning tickets.

Based on the houses earlier prediction, more players joining is unlikely. But even if an eighth legitimate player defies all odds and joins the round, causing the legitimate player E to now own the winning ticket, the house can simply add another eight puppets, giving the winning ticket back to the house and allowing more legitimate players to join without endangering the house's winning ticket. For all practical purposes this can be repeated as often as necessary. Alternatively, the house can simply prevent new players from joining the round past a certain point, for example by simply ignoring entries and blaming it on latency or bugs.

Such a winning strategy exists for every possible winning ticket.

TL;DR: The house can take advantage of information asymmetry by adding one or more fake players and thereby cheating the legitimate players of their winnings.

Ok try this pretend you know the winning number. Say its 6000 can you show me how to get that number please?
Because its random when you buy a ticket.

Again: Your only other post is you talking about bustabit, does that make you a admin no, but it sure does make a red flag stand up saying you are. 

This is getting pretty said you guys are still trying to bash us.

The lucky number is not picked (or at least the hash isn't displayed) until the first player purchases a ticket, but generally we are in agreement until here.



This is false. If the house knows the number is 10.000, for example, what stops it from waiting until new players are unlikely to join and then purchasing the winning ticket itself? The players would never know they've been cheated. This is the weakness I'm addressing in my previous post.



Again: I do not own bustabit, nor am I an administrator or a moderator for bustabit. My one post in bustabit's thread doesn't make me a bustabit admin any more than my four posts in this thread make me an administrator of your game.

I also don't believe that pointing out technical issues qualifies as "ruthless" in any way.

I do not think you are clear on how our "provably fair" works, or how our site works. So i will try again to explain it to you bustabit bashers.

The "lucky" number is picked before the game starts.
There is no way to change the lucky number.
It is impossible for someone to get the lucky number even if they know what it is.

Proof your a bustabit admin look at your other posts.

You guys need to just stop. I'm a competitor i get that but no need to be this ruthless. 

I am familiar with your "provably fair" system and I have considered it in the example given in my previous post. Hashing a few values doesn't magically make your game provably fair—there is a lot more to it. As I have demonstrated, players can still be cheated by the operator fairly easily.

Although I am not the owner or administrator of bustabit, I do not see how that would invalidate the evidence I have presented even if it were the case.

Please take the time to read and understand the example in my previous post. There is also the issue of not using transport layer encryption (SSL), which you have yet to respond to as well. Your refusal to address these problems is quite telling.

Clearly your a bustabit admin. The fact you are saying the site is not provably fair is 100% false. We show a before and after hash. There is no way for us to rig any raffle.

I am not here to "bash you", I'm here because someone—who turned out to be an owner of your site—kept and keeps spamming links to btc-raffle in bustabit's chat, so I decided to take a closer look. Was that not the intention? There's no such thing as bad publicity, right?

I did not say anything regarding your trustworthiness—although your behaviour does raise some red flags—, I said that your site is not provably fair despite claiming to be. The concerns I brought up are of technical nature and as such are not affected by whether you question my motives or trust me. In fact, anyone can easily verify my claims.

The correct response on your side would be to refute those claims with a technical argument (not attacks on my character) or make improvements to your game if necessary. Speaking of which, you should stop sending your users' login credentials in the clear and start using SSL, especially since you are handling customer funds. Transport encryption is a low-effort, high-value necessity that you owe your players.

Thanks man, and its all good i expected other bitcoin sites to bash the new guy i just didn't expect the whole bustabit team to gang up on me.

Well good luck getting rid of it... I've played on your site several times without problems so. I don't think you really deserve it.

Its from ryan the bustabit admin. Just one of his ways to make me look bad.

How did he get the negative trust again? It just got removed this morning 

This is weird.

Dexon is a admin of bustabit quit lying. After your team of admins have attacked my site + trying to bash us, makes me not care anymore about your site being spammed. I suggest you fix your site from being spammed.

Dexon you sent a malicious attack on our site, you even made a fake account on here again trying to bash us. This is not a place to flame please stay off our thread.

I don't go on your thread and bash it but i could easily. Especially with your lotto where you show 0 proof its not rigged seems like a ploy to get people to bet at X3. 

That's racist

@jlfvr your only other post is you talking about bustabit so clearly your just here to bash us.. Reading over your post all your saying we are untrustworthy. The same thing can be said for guys site. This site is all about player vs player when your site is players vs the house. Clearly we are a threat or you guys would not be putting so much effort into trying to make us look bad.

The game is fun the people are loving it. Stop trying to bash us.

@ryan i will have to look into a lot of chats.


I do not want to see anymore post from the bustabit admins on my thread.

This game is not provably fair and you are misleading your players by claiming it is.

Granted, by displaying the salted and hashed result before the game ends, you prove that the winning ticket (the "lucky number") was not changed based on subsequent wagers by players. However, there is no way for players to verify that the house isn't posing as other players. These fake players would have an obvious advantage since they know which games to enter and when to do so in order to win the pot with a high likelihood, thereby cheating the real players.

Consider this example:

• Player A purchases a ticket and the hash 5041f376ddcb15642ffecea159db207945c0dc0f8375fb9c4657b1b27b6b0e1eb4cd9a138939664 acd254839f15e70fd18e670ac814202aea4b860bd2aa56adb is shown.
• Players B, C, D and E also purchase a ticket.
• The game ends and the lucky number 9337 is revealed. Also, the salt 774eb411-8f95-4e65-b0cd-89c19d05f03b is now displayed.

Player D is having a bad run and he's getting suspicious, so he decides to verify the last game. He uses the formula in your FAQ and enters the lucky number and the salt. To his surprise, everything checks out. The hash is correct!

So, nothing to see here? Not quite. The house purposefully generated a lucky number near the end of the spectrum (from 1 to 10.000). After players B, C and D purchased their tickets the house decided that more players were unlikely to join, so it purchased the winning ticket itself, posing as player E, and thereby cheating player D of his winnings.

This is just one attack vector and I imagine a clever (malicious) site operator would be able to come up with more. In any case you cannot reasonably claim that the game is provably fair.

You say you don't care but the 2 people who run bustabit/pevpot both are bashing me. I asked you to stop flaming on my thread.

I have said it is not me who is saying anything on your site. There are 5 owners to this site i messaged everyone saying do not use your chat box. What else do you want me to do?

Also i am building a referral system where people will get 1% of their referrals spending. So are you going to blame me when people just trying to make money with referrals and post a link in your chat too?

First of all, I really don't have a problem with competitors at all. Hell, you can download a copy of bustabit and run it yourself if you want *and* even talk about it on my chat. I don't mind. I'm pretty much the least competitive person you'll find. Pevpot doesn't even come close to paying the bills, it's just a bit of fun for me. Hell, if you want, I'll give you a coule bitmillicents to buy a sponsorship on the page


As for the spammer being you, this is message was made 9 days before the bitcointalk thread ("2015-12-05 23:00:44.336+00"):

(a message that's completely fine, and the sort of conversation I like to see on my site. I personally didn't check out your site, but I know Dexon was)

and later you discuss bug-fixing. All which is fine.

But then after you launched, I can definitively link the original account with 100% certainty to these accounts:


many which were used to spamming, and some which were created in response to mutes, so you could continue spamming.



Or maybe I'm wrong, and one of the "bunch of people" you've hired is an overzealous marketers who impersonates you and then won't stop spamming?



Anyway, I'll stop posting here if you can refrain from advertising on my site (unless its actual conversation, not just "got some big pots going at btc-raffle.com"). Good luck with everything.

I played on this site with just a 0.0005 deposit and all worked out pretty well. I'll look forward to playing there in the future.

Thanks admin

concept of gambling sites are very nice and I think this is the first gambling site that uses the idea.

And if I find a problem with your site, if I was given a reward for these services .. ?? : V

First off you both are running bustabit you both are attacking me i have not once went and spammed your site chat. I have a bunch of people generating traffic for me it could be one of them ill message everyone.

But the fact is you both are trying to bash my site because you also own pevpot a competitor site.

Please stay off my thread when all your doing is flaming.

Please read our FAQ page as to how we are provably fair. We show a before and after hash you can verify the hash. Also you and ryan the owners of bustabit need to stop trying to bash us. i know we are competitors but your acting like little kids.

Your game is still not provably fair.

If you could stop spaming your site's link on other casino's chat, I would be really thankful.
You are being really annoying and kiddish.

Thank you for considering my request...

i have done a lot of testing and people who buy 10 tickets over the players who only buy 1 ticket do have a better chance to win but i have seen 100s of times where they did not win.

I think everyone have their own thought. I can't debate about this forever with you. I just do what I think its logic. I dont ask you to agree with me or anything. I just feel this is matter of chances so it is my thought and I can't ask you to follow me or else so this is my doing here

For 98% bets on dice, the chance to lose in the each game is the same at 2%. The player could lose the first bet if he is very unlucky, or he could win 200 bets in a row if he is very lucky. The same applies to this raffle. It is possible for the player to "win a lot of money first before he collapse", and it is possible for him to "win a little bit and then lose a lot of money". Anyway, I guess I have said enough on this matter. If you (or anybody reading the posts) like this way of playing, you can do so yourself on this raffle site or on dice games as you prefer.

Yeah let say that it is almost the same at dice and it is 98% chances and then Im sure he will win a lot of money first before he collapse and he will get his profit after his loss. This will make this game one sided match, it is almost the same as usual lottery that let people buy so many tickets. You let 10 accounts playing in the same game? So what are you called this if this will not boost his chance to win?

Vouch for this site!

Started gambling here and had a blast!

Exactly even if someone was to make 10 accounts its not like he is going to have a 100% chance to win. Each account can only buy 10 tickets just like every other player can. 

Why would it be not fair? Having a lot of raffle tickets on many different accounts does give him a very high chance to win the raffle, but it is never a guaranteed win. It is just like playing some 98% bets on dice sites, and one day the player will lose an "almost guaranteed win" and lose a huge amount. Would you consider playing 98% bets on dice sites unfair?

This will not fair. He is going to have 10 times more chances than usual people. Sure he risk the 10 account of that but that is almost guarantee win for him. Let say there is 20 people out there playing with his 10 accounts that means he have 50% chance of winning out there

Hmm this seems like an interesting concept and I will try this.

Aight so, here's the thing.
When there's 3 tickets bought (and 3 people) the third ticket's range is 6667-9999. Which means, if the game draw a 'lucky number' of 10k, there will be no winner and this makes the whole thing wrong isn't it? (since 3* 33.33¯ % can not do 100%)

Also, about the provably fair. There is no client-seed. Meaning, the whole 'random' number is generated server side. So the users can not prove that this number is actually really random and not set to be a low one to make the first ticket to always win... If you see what I mean.

So even if the number is encrypted then sent to the players before the game starts, OP could snipe this ticket by buying in the right amount to get in the "winning range" because he could manually set the 'lucky number' to a low one to be sure to win.

In conclusion, winning tickets bug that can make no winner and game not provably fair.

Still a funny game. Looking forward to these fix.

This is very true i have seen many times where a member buys 1 ticket and wins against other player who have 10 tickets.

What is the problem of that? I mean, that user with 10 different accounts could have 10x more chance to win, but at the same time he has to risk 10x more in the round for the same potential profit.

Btw your idea is good enough but still I agree with maku. If you can keep on making a new account and that people will have a better chance to win. Let say he make 10 accounts and together in one game the chance for their winning is higher than others than only make 1 account to participate. Btw I havent saw any pot there in your site. May be you need to make some promotions or giveaways to let them tried it anyway because this is 30 sec games and it will be sure fast enough to end

That is true someone could have a bunch of accounts buy 10 tickets on each account and have a high chance to win. But thats a huge risk. In testing i have seen a 4% win. So even know other people purchases a ton of tickets the person who purchase 1 ticket won.   

It is good that you thought about limiting ability to purchase tickets. But I am afraid that current system can be exploited. After all you can have 2 and more accounts.
And is keeping you from buying with your multi account as many tickets as you virtually want?

I haven't thought about promoting it yet want to make sure its 100% working before all that. But if you want i can add some funds to your account to test it with. Just send me your deposit address on the site.

This is nice idea gambling with raffle ticket site looking simple and clean so you have any plan for giveaway promo to test this service.

We just stressed out our servers found a few issues but all is fixed now. Big thanks to everyone who helped.

To moderators please close this thread as we changed our whole site.

New thread at.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/btc-rafflecom-provably-fair-referral-system-player-vs-player-1312679