Modify x16 riser cable to be x1 to x16?

ypsylon

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Well I never said that I wanted to move one card did I? Wink

Minimum 2 maybe 3. But to be honest it hit me yesterday: why not utilize DimasTech Easy XL testbench for mining. It will be slightly more expensive option, but I think, in the long run well worth it. Must carefully think about pros and cons.

Browsed yesterday all products (shame to admit for few hours lol) on DT site and I'm completely sold on that blue super-duper sexy bench. Plenty of room for spacing + superbly simple way of adding more fans with FlexFan mounting system.

Of course biggest advantage is that inside EU I don't need to bother myself with absurd shipping/customs cost from US. Nice.

Miracek

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I'm definitely not saying that it won't work. I just wanted to point out by extending the cable in this manner without shielded cabling greatly increases your chance of interference of data flowing across the cable as well as crosstalk. So if you notice any strange behavior, try shortening the cable and see if that helps.

zackclark70

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Quote from: Miracek on May 31, 2013, 03:34:57 PM

yeah, just the last one that connects to the gnu should be enough. One this to to be aware of, just by adding a single riser, you are basically adding an antenna to the device that can pick up and insert interference in the data communication with the Mobo. By adding 2 or even 3 cables together you are essentially doubling the potentially for getting interference on the device. If you notice random crashes or alot of missed hashes you may want to reduce the number of risers and see if the issue improves.

when i used 3 unpowerd rises in a row on a croshair iv fomila m board it made no difrents to having 1 riser the card just had 5mv less on the 12v

Miracek

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yeah, just the last one that connects to the gnu should be enough. One this to to be aware of, just by adding a single riser, you are basically adding an antenna to the device that can pick up and insert interference in the data communication with the Mobo. By adding 2 or even 3 cables together you are essentially doubling the potentially for getting interference on the device. If you notice random crashes or alot of missed hashes you may want to reduce the number of risers and see if the issue improves.

deslok

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Activity: 462

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It's all about the game, and how you play it

Quote from: ypsylon on May 31, 2013, 01:53:11 PM

@zackclark70

Exactly what I wanted to hear for my 7950 he he

@deslok

That is the nature of my dilemma. There are boards which have issues with more than one. Hmm... need to obtain powered riser then, or two, even better whole 3 or 4. Just to be sure Cheesy

no need to power every riser just the last one in the chain

ypsylon

newbie

Activity: 27

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@zackclark70

Exactly what I wanted to hear for my 7950 he he

@deslok

That is the nature of my dilemma. There are boards which have issues with more than one. Hmm... need to obtain powered riser then, or two, even better whole 3 or 4. Just to be sure Cheesy

deslok

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Activity: 462

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It's all about the game, and how you play it

Quote from: ypsylon on May 31, 2013, 09:53:50 AM

On a similar note I have a question. How many x16 extenders I can use without problems with power supplied via PCI-Ex slot? I want to move mining VGAs below motherboard (Mountain Mod case with horizontal tray), away from hot RAID controller. I'm currently at the stage of thinking the mounting system (slightly more sturdy than zip-ties Wink

) for cards right next to 2 exhaust fans which are bored blowing out cold air. I want to 'employ' them in, let's say, more productive manner. Grin

One extender is ~15 cm long. Thinking that 4-5 will do the trick without the need to overstretch cables (+ possibly right x16 riser at the end). My only worry is potential drop in power supplied with each extender added to the line.

I can't say i'd reccomend that many without the last one being a powered riser(every inch is more resistance) but i don't know of any spec that would discourage it offically

zackclark70

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Quote from: ypsylon on May 31, 2013, 09:53:50 AM

On a similar note I have a question. How many x16 extenders I can use without problems with power supplied via PCI-Ex slot? I want to move mining VGAs below motherboard (Mountain Mod case with horizontal tray), away from hot RAID controller. I'm currently at the stage of thinking the mounting system (slightly more sturdy than zip-ties Wink

) for cards right next to 2 exhaust fans which are bored blowing out cold air. I want to 'employ' them in, let's say, more productive manner. Grin

One extender is ~15 cm long. Thinking that 4-5 will do the trick without the need to overstretch cables (+ possibly right x16 riser at the end). My only worry is potential drop in power supplied with each extender added to the line.

i have linked 3 together before and it worked ok ( 7950 )

ypsylon

newbie

Activity: 27

Merit: 0

On a similar note I have a question. How many x16 extenders I can use without problems with power supplied via PCI-Ex slot? I want to move mining VGAs below motherboard (Mountain Mod case with horizontal tray), away from hot RAID controller. I'm currently at the stage of thinking the mounting system (slightly more sturdy than zip-ties Wink

) for cards right next to 2 exhaust fans which are bored blowing out cold air. I want to 'employ' them in, let's say, more productive manner. Grin

One extender is ~15 cm long. Thinking that 4-5 will do the trick without the need to overstretch cables (+ possibly right x16 riser at the end). My only worry is potential drop in power supplied with each extender added to the line.

deslok

sr. member

Activity: 462

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It's all about the game, and how you play it

the 3/4 psu issue depends on your specific cards the calculation is easy to do once you know that and the power supplies rail split (on the side of some in the manual for most)

Miracek

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Quote from: ReCat on May 30, 2013, 09:37:01 PM

Agh, your pictures are forcing me to tilt my head sideways.

Really sorry about that, not sure why it's done that. When i open the link directly in my browser the images are right side up. But when i put them in here there all sideways.

ReCat

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Agh, your pictures are forcing me to tilt my head sideways.

Miracek

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Quote from: zackclark70 on May 30, 2013, 06:28:00 PM

3 card is ok 4 if pushing/ will blow psu

I was pretty sure of this, but was hoping Grin

, thx for the confirmation, I'll wire up a 400W I have laying around from an old PC, I have it setup just for the 4th card.

zackclark70

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3 card is ok 4 if pushing/ will blow psu

Miracek

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So I ended up trying again. This time I only added one card. Cut the male end of the x16 riser and removed most of the cables not being used by it. left a couple as I didn't want to get to close the last pin needed for the x1 and have to start again. Figured while I was at it might as well make it a powered riser so did the connected it to a Molex plug. End result there are now 3 cards on the one motherboard all working. Sorry for the pics being sideways, for some reason when I look at the them in Dropbox there ok but here there rotated 90 degrees.

Thx for all the help everyone. I will be adding the 4th card tomorrow from the other motherboard. just gotta figure if I can run all 4 from my 850 watt supply or should I add a 2nd power supply for that last card.

ssateneth

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Quote from: ReCat on May 29, 2013, 11:03:10 AM

Quote from: swordfish6975 on May 29, 2013, 07:42:18 AM

not the link i remembered but some good info:

http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42

It is not very well known, but the PCIe specification electrically supports down-plugging a card in a smaller link connector, such as an x16 card in an x1 connector.
However PCIe mechanically prevents down-plugging by closing the end of the connector, for a reason that I do not understand.

Some motherboards require pins A1 and B17 to be shorted for an x16 card to work in an x1 connector.

Wait. So if I remove the end of a PCI-E 1x connector on the motherboard, so that a PCI-E 16x card will slide into the slot, it would just work?!

Don't mangle your $150 motherboard. Get some 1x risers instead. They are CHEAP.

Miracek

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Quote from: deslok on May 30, 2013, 10:42:13 AM

Quote from: Miracek on May 30, 2013, 09:46:53 AM

very logical, i'm actually disappointed in myself for not thinking of that earlier.

you get credit for considering that the riser could be modified in the first place Tongue

Cheers mate, Grin

deslok

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Activity: 462

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It's all about the game, and how you play it

Quote from: Miracek on May 30, 2013, 09:46:53 AM

very logical, i'm actually disappointed in myself for not thinking of that earlier.

you get credit for considering that the riser could be modified in the first place Tongue

Miracek

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very logical, i'm actually disappointed in myself for not thinking of that earlier.

deslok

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Activity: 462

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It's all about the game, and how you play it

even if you can't use the full 16x riser on board, cutting it to a 4x length with the slot cut back eliminates the possibility of damaging anything in the 1x portion of the connector(and if you damage a pin that's not connected who cares?)

Miracek

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no really thank you for your feedback. I will be taking a look at the board as soon as I get home to see if I can do that, probably easier and better than trying to modify the riser cable.

zackclark70

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i have seen some people do it just thort i should tell you lol

Miracek

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don't think that would work on my board. 2 of the x1 slots are between 2 x16 slots, but at some point between the 2 x16 slots there is some thing on the board with what looks like an integrated passive heat sink, it would get in the way of the x16 riser cable.

EDIT

I will take a look though, I'm just going off of my memory right now.

zackclark70

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just cut the back of the motherbord slot

Miracek

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Good point, I didn't think of that. In the process of cutting the male board that connects to the Mobo, i should also sever the cables running up to the card. THis was if there are any shorts that I may have made by cutting the board they won't actually be connected to the GPU.

THANKS

sweeppicking

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Quote from: Miracek on May 30, 2013, 12:58:22 AM

Quote from: sweeppicking on May 29, 2013, 11:33:06 PM

I make it, x16 x16 didn't work on my computer so i cut it, now i'm using it like a x1 x16 riser and can make another x1 x1 but i need the top famale pcie conector.

Thanks sweeppicking glad to hear it works. I could not find a reason it wouldn't work but wanted to make sure it would.

Just need to cut the kables, and care with the male pcb cuting. x1 x16 is beter that x16 x16.

Miracek

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Quote from: sweeppicking on May 29, 2013, 11:33:06 PM

I make it, x16 x16 didn't work on my computer so i cut it, now i'm using it like a x1 x16 riser and can make another x1 x1 but i need the top famale pcie conector.

Thanks sweeppicking glad to hear it works. I could not find a reason it wouldn't work but wanted to make sure it would.

sweeppicking

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I make it, x16 x16 didn't work on my computer so i cut it, now i'm using it like a x1 x16 riser and can make another x1 x1 but i need the top famale pcie conector.

Miracek

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Quote from: Global BTC on May 29, 2013, 11:07:26 AM

You could also use a 1x to 16x extender:

For some cards, you need a powered extender.

Unfortunately I don't have x1 to x16 adapters, but I do have a bunch of x16 riser cables, so I was trying to make my own x1 to x16 risers from those.

deslok

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It's all about the game, and how you play it

Quote from: ReCat on May 29, 2013, 11:09:44 AM

Quote from: deslok on May 29, 2013, 11:04:04 AM

as long as you have clearance and don't damage your motherboard? usually, not everything works as intended but it's supposed to.

Dang. I could do that with a dremel, just drill away the plastic at the end. Why don't they do that normally? Would be great for fitting two GPU's right into the case of most desktops that don't have a x16 slot.

Because it's not normal to stuff that many gpu's in a system and things like crossfire and SLI aren't supported that way. I've seen some boards with an open ended 8x slot designed for workstation use but that's about it.

ReCat

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Quote from: deslok on May 29, 2013, 11:04:04 AM

as long as you have clearance and don't damage your motherboard? usually, not everything works as intended but it's supposed to.

Dang. I could do that with a dremel, just drill away the plastic at the end. Why don't they do that normally? Would be great for fitting two GPU's right into the case of most desktops that don't have a x16 slot.

Global BTC

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You could also use a 1x to 16x extender:

For some cards, you need a powered extender.

deslok

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It's all about the game, and how you play it

as long as you have clearance and don't damage your motherboard? usually, not everything works as intended but it's supposed to.

ReCat

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Quote from: swordfish6975 on May 29, 2013, 07:42:18 AM

not the link i remembered but some good info:

http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42

It is not very well known, but the PCIe specification electrically supports down-plugging a card in a smaller link connector, such as an x16 card in an x1 connector.
However PCIe mechanically prevents down-plugging by closing the end of the connector, for a reason that I do not understand.

Some motherboards require pins A1 and B17 to be shorted for an x16 card to work in an x1 connector.

Wait. So if I remove the end of a PCI-E 1x connector on the motherboard, so that a PCI-E 16x card will slide into the slot, it would just work?!

Miracek

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I know, unfortunately I loaned my Multi-tool to buddy working on his house and he's on vacation this week, didn't think I was going to need it so I didn't ask him to return it. Undecided

deslok

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It's all about the game, and how you play it

try an oscillating multitool it'll be easier to handle than the dremel(won't try and spin either up or down the card)
http://www.harborfreight.com/oscillating-multifunction-power-tool-68861-8493.html

Miracek

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Yeah I agree, I definitely cut through a part of the last copper pin when modifying the x16 riser. I'll probably mess around with it tonight and trying just put the 3 cards in one machine and see if that's stable. If it is I'll try to modify another riser cable and then put all four cards on the same Mobo. I just posted this up here to see if anyone else has done this and if there were any specific things I should look out for. or some tips on the best way to cut down the x16 riser to x1. I currently am using a dremel with a cutting wheel on it.

deslok

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It's all about the game, and how you play it

bitcoin mining does not require the full 16x lane, most cards actually peak with a 8x lane even. if you're seeing poor performance after modifying a riser something went wrong with the modification(or perhaps the riser was no good in the first place) 5870 makes this old but this is a good read still
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/AMD/HD_5870_PCI-Express_Scaling/25.html

grue

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Quote from: Miracek on May 29, 2013, 08:07:05 AM

[...]it's just the performance was not great [...]

I get the same performance with x1 as x16, even mining scrypt. :/

Miracek

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Thanks Swordfish

I had seen that link before attempting my mod, there was another link I had seen where someone actually modified their graphics card by removing the additional connectors and had it physically inserted into the x1 slot. that's what gave me the confidence to at least try. As for the shorting of pins to allow the Mobo to detect the cards, fortunately my board didn't need that mod, CGminer saw and was operating all 4 cards, it's just the performance was not great, and I think the card with the connector I nicked while remove the rest of it connector was going crazy on the GPU load before I shut it down.

swordfish6975

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not the link i remembered but some good info:

http://blog.zorinaq.com/?e=42

It is not very well known, but the PCIe specification electrically supports down-plugging a card in a smaller link connector, such as an x16 card in an x1 connector.
However PCIe mechanically prevents down-plugging by closing the end of the connector, for a reason that I do not understand.

Some motherboards require pins A1 and B17 to be shorted for an x16 card to work in an x1 connector.

Miracek

full member

Activity: 142

Merit: 100

Has anyone tried modifying a Pci-e x16 riser cable to be x1 to x16? I've tried this for 2 of my cards, when installed, it wasn't very stable and on of the cards had it's load varying from 64% to 100% several times a second. Took everything apart and put it back the way it was, 2 GPU's on 2 mother boards, just so I can keep mining as I was. Upon close inspection I found that I nicked the last connector on the riser cable, it was passing continuity but barely. I figured I should ask if this works before trying it again.

Grin

Topic: Modify x16 riser cable to be x1 to x16? (Read 5244 times)