Monetary fascism in today's world(EU as case study)

John999

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on March 27, 2022, 04:15:07 AM

Many people are not in support of crypto adoption and this apathy is stemmed from the belief that it is not trustworthy and it can be used to defraud people. Using the vehement stance of György Matolcsy( Hungarian Central Bank Governor) as an instance; he feels crypto should not be even considered, as it could be used by some members of the EU to fund illegal businesses.
But I think it only seems as if the EU wants to control the finance of individuals by imposing taxes but since crypto does not allow for imposition of taxes, they move to outlaw or ban it. Is he just being a fascist or are is fears founded?? https://www.outlookindia.com/business/hungary-calls-for-total-crypto-ban-in-eu-uber-open-to-crypto-adoption-market-crashes-by-10--news-122319

Crypto could disrupt nation states in a very profound way. It is fair game for them to try to fight back and defend their interests.

Gozie51

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Quote from: Flexystar on March 29, 2022, 11:54:12 AM

Tell them to watch Narcos series on the Netflix, may be they will know how much fiat is traded for illegal businesses.

That is my point. The criticism on that aspect of bitcoin is more flimsy that you never would imagine. Corruption began with fiat and monies have exchanged for illicit businesses but because bitcoin is for the reach of all to invest, own and explore then such criticism is waking up but soon the voice of adoption will take over any other argument to pull down the decentralised system that guarantee Independence and freedom to every individual person.

Flexystar

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“…It will be used to fund the illegal business in the EU…”, oh my God I literally laughed at that. So these guys are so confident about crypto being used for the illegal business as if they are themselves running them and they know they use it for illegal purposes.

Why these big corporate and white collar guys are always having illegal outlook when they see the crypto currency’s?

Tell them to watch Narcos series on the Netflix, may be they will know how much fiat is traded for illegal businesses.

Beerwizzard

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on March 27, 2022, 04:15:07 AM

Using the vehement stance of György Matolcsy( Hungarian Central Bank Governor) as an instance; he feels crypto should not be even considered, as it could be used by some members of the EU to fund illegal businesses.

No shit! Some Hungarian dick said something. Breaking news!

Seriously. Hungarian Central bank is not the most influential authority and their governor have a smaller scope of work since they got their own Forint. This guy's opinion regarding crypto doesn't have any weight. There is no reason to expect someone like FED to change their policy after that.

Retainly_Collie

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What I feel for people who are looking at this market as risky and negative is bigotry. Maybe a lot of people haven't realized its benefits for some problems in the economy, but many people just look at the negative things associated with it. That's okay, as this market will keep going up, and the proof is in what's going on.

Mauser

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Hungary is not really reflecting Europe. There is a huge difference between Hungarian politics and the politics of the European Union. For the last few years has Hungary changed their laws to control all aspects of the country better, what is in violation of the open mind and ideas of the EU. The government should not be able to control all the important areas of a country, but that's exactly what Hungary is trying to do. No wonder they are crying for a ban on cryptos. The freedom and independence behind cryptos is what makes Hungary scarred. I wouldn't worry too much about it, they will not get a majority.

davis196

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Quote

But I think it only seems as if the EU wants to control the finance of individuals by imposing taxes but since crypto does not allow for imposition of taxes, they move to outlaw or ban it. Is he just being a fascist or are is fears founded?

1.Crypto does allow imposition of taxes(if you are using centralized custodial crypto exchanges).
2.He's a central banker.What else do you expect from a central banker?Almost all central bankers in the world are against cryptocurrencies,because their favorite baby-fiat money is failing and losing value slowly.

I think that you are exaggerating a little bit,by calling the monetary policy of the central banks "monetary fascism".The money supply and the monetary policy is a monopoly of the government.It always has been.
The US Federal Reserve system is an exception,because FED is not a government owned central bank.
It's more like a pseudo-private institution(a bunch of private banks "working for the benefit of the people").

kidbounty

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on March 27, 2022, 04:15:07 AM

Many people are not in support of crypto adoption and this apathy is stemmed from the belief that it is not trustworthy and it can be used to defraud people. Using the vehement stance of György Matolcsy( Hungarian Central Bank Governor) as an instance; he feels crypto should not be even considered, as it could be used by some members of the EU to fund illegal businesses.
But I think it only seems as if the EU wants to control the finance of individuals by imposing taxes but since crypto does not allow for imposition of taxes, they move to outlaw or ban it. Is he just being a fascist or are is fears founded?? https://www.outlookindia.com/business/hungary-calls-for-total-crypto-ban-in-eu-uber-open-to-crypto-adoption-market-crashes-by-10--news-122319

nothing wrong with what he said. because basically crypto is able to do that. privacy coins like monero can be used for that purpose without being tracked. and fear he wasn't completely wrong. but despite all that there are many benefits that can be received when a country legalizes crypto.Then about taxes. actually this is an easy problem to solve, EU countries just need to cooperate with CEX to tax every transaction to FIAT. they just need to make rules about it.

Poker Player

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on March 27, 2022, 04:15:07 AM

Many people are not in support of crypto adoption and this apathy is stemmed from the belief that it is not trustworthy and it can be used to defraud people. Using the vehement stance of György Matolcsy( Hungarian Central Bank Governor) as an instance; he feels crypto should not be even considered, as it could be used by some members of the EU to fund illegal businesses.
But I think it only seems as if the EU wants to control the finance of individuals by imposing taxes but since crypto does not allow for imposition of taxes, they move to outlaw or ban it. Is he just being a fascist or are is fears founded?? https://www.outlookindia.com/business/hungary-calls-for-total-crypto-ban-in-eu-uber-open-to-crypto-adoption-market-crashes-by-10--news-122319

Although I love your nickname, I have to tell you, your post has several conceptual flaws.

To begin with, this would not be an EU case study, in any case an EU country case study, and precisely Hungary does not represent the average EU country in terms of political ideology, but rather tends to have opposing views, especially as far as the NWO is concerned.

As for crypto being used to fund illegal businesses, nothing new, the only thing is that they could apply the same argument to cash, but of course, cryptocurrencies and especially Bitcoin are more difficult for them to control, but when you say that crypto doesn't allow the imposition of taxes you are wrong again.

Crypto are regulated to pay taxes, generally by capital gains in most parts of the world. And governments have some way to control it with centralized exchanges. Another thing is that there is room for certain people to use Bitcoin and certain crypto without governments knowing about it and thus evade paying taxes.

The fascist thing makes me laugh a little, and as for whether his fears are founded, I think so but from his point of view of someone who serves the established power, not from the point of view of the benefit of the general population.

Hydrogen

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They say that history repeats itself and the future can be predicted from the past.

We have already witnessed nigeria's central bank closing the accounts of nigerians who use bitcoin and crypto. This trend and its after effects could define the future policy of central banks in other countries. With some modifications as central banks attempt to learn lessons from their nigerian case study and improve upon it.

I think that a discussion of crypto taxation cannot be complete without acknowledging puerto rico and other nations requiring a 4% income tax. While nations like the united states demand the entire world implement a global 30% income tax, so that high taxes cannot be escaped. No matter which country a person moves to.

The european union still has not solved greece's debt troubles. That outstanding debt coupled with recent economic crisis, and the loss of the UK could be enough to break up the EU eventually. It is surprising that the EU has lasted as long as it has, IMO. Everything the EU has tried to accomplish from the eurofighter typhoon to open borders appears to not have succeeded, to put it mildly.

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Quote from: TheNineClub on March 28, 2022, 03:00:45 PM

I love the fascist word being thrown around these days without much thought to it.

"Bist du faschistisch?" Grin

Fascism is one of the hardest to define in all political discussions, every time you slap the fascist tag on somebody you realize at a closer look that he has the same views that make him antifascist, since we're discussing the economy here fascism is far more open market-orientated than socialism or communism, but of course, right now throwing fascism and nazism around seems to be the main ingredient when you want to make a shallow argument.

I wonder for example how building a gateway between the east and the west would be considered fascist?
https://hvg.hu/gazdasag/20220328_matolcsy_gyorgy_magyarorszag_atjaro
Anyhow, it's just an individual in Hungary trying to make the spotlight, the EU doesn't work like that.

Quote from: Majestic-milf on March 27, 2022, 04:15:07 AM

But I think it only seems as if the EU wants to control the finance of individuals by imposing taxes but since crypto does not allow for imposition of taxes, they move to outlaw or ban it.

You've never paid taxes in your life, haven't you? Grin

TheNineClub

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on March 27, 2022, 04:15:07 AM

Many people are not in support of crypto adoption and this apathy is stemmed from the belief that it is not trustworthy and it can be used to defraud people. Using the vehement stance of György Matolcsy( Hungarian Central Bank Governor) as an instance; he feels crypto should not be even considered, as it could be used by some members of the EU to fund illegal businesses.
But I think it only seems as if the EU wants to control the finance of individuals by imposing taxes but since crypto does not allow for imposition of taxes, they move to outlaw or ban it. Is he just being a fascist or are is fears founded?? https://www.outlookindia.com/business/hungary-calls-for-total-crypto-ban-in-eu-uber-open-to-crypto-adoption-market-crashes-by-10--news-122319

I love the fascist word being thrown around these days without much thought to it. Capitalism has worked in this manner from the get-go so it's, first and foremost, capitalistic. And I wouldn't say it's fair to say everyone is against adoption just because they want to oppose crypto. I myself think that for mass adoption it will have to give some of its decentralization (as a compromise) and I am not sure that's worth it.

Dunamisx

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on March 27, 2022, 04:15:07 AM

Many people are not in support of crypto adoption and this apathy is stemmed from the belief that it is not trustworthy and it can be used to defraud people.

This is posing a big challenge on the public opinions on how they view bitcoin on a wrong perspective because many illicit acts has been perpetrated through online platforms and they majorly sees every bitcoiner as a scam or ponzi scheme scammer, all because of their lack in Understanding of what bitcoin truly is.

Quote from: Majestic-milf on March 27, 2022, 04:15:07 AM

But I think it only seems as if the EU wants to control the finance of individuals by imposing taxes but since crypto does not allow for imposition of taxes, they move to outlaw or ban it.

We have to understand that crypto firms can't bye cut the effect of tax in the industry because that is the only means government can regulate the sector since it is decentralized, they propose to raise a bill against crypto as illegal and should be voted against all because there's no cognate agreement on regulating the sector through tax payment.

el kaka22

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At the end of the day we are going to see something of a big adoption when the governments and the politicians are fully behind it. Look at El Salvador, there was just one person needed for that to happen and that was their president. Obviously, if that one person doesn't have that power then we can't see it, but if the president of ANY nation wants it, then we are going to end up getting closer or even done. In that situation we are going to feel a lot better and it will get better and better.

So, we are talking about something that may not be looking great right now, but at the same time we are talking about something that is not impossible neither, just one person needed, but the right person.

avikz

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on March 27, 2022, 04:15:07 AM

Many people are not in support of crypto adoption and this apathy is stemmed from the belief that it is not trustworthy and it can be used to defraud people. Using the vehement stance of György Matolcsy( Hungarian Central Bank Governor) as an instance; he feels crypto should not be even considered, as it could be used by some members of the EU to fund illegal businesses.
But I think it only seems as if the EU wants to control the finance of individuals by imposing taxes but since crypto does not allow for imposition of taxes, they move to outlaw or ban it. Is he just being a fascist or are is fears founded?? https://www.outlookindia.com/business/hungary-calls-for-total-crypto-ban-in-eu-uber-open-to-crypto-adoption-market-crashes-by-10--news-122319

It's not just EU, rather a lot of other countries from other continents share the same feelings about cryptocurrency. If you look from the perspective of a government, it will make sense to you. If crypto adoption starts gaining traction, the entire banking system will see no takers for their services. That's why legislators are vocal against it. I have not seen any central bank except Japan, adopted cryptocurrency or even welcomed it.

It's the fear of loosing relevance. It's the desire of maintaining control on financial matters by the government. These are the typical natures of any government of the world. So you can expect heavier regulations coming from many countries within next 1-2 years on cryptocurrencies.

Gozie51

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Quote from: Majestic-milf on March 27, 2022, 04:15:07 AM

Many people are not in support of crypto adoption and this apathy is stemmed from the belief that it is not trustworthy and it can be used to defraud people. Using the vehement stance of György Matolcsy( Hungarian Central Bank Governor) as an instance; he feels crypto should not be even considered, as it could be used by some members of the EU to fund illegal businesses.

I think the argument of using cryptocurrency to fund illegal deals is already outdated. Whoever is making such argument must be living in forgetful state of mind that even fiat is used for the payment of illegal businesses of child trafficking, drugs, buying of unapproved weapons etc. Cryptocurrency has gone above such argument but to be looked at the positive side where countries like Russia is considering the use as they have been taking out of Swift. The investment side of cryptocurrency as assets and progress should matter more than the old fear that doesn't exist.

Cryptions

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Unfortunately,more and more governments seems to turn hostile against cryptos also in the EU. However, I think they will not actually ban them, but regulate cryptos to death ultimately nearby or at the same level than banks. Motivation for that comes not only from "illegal use" of cryptos but govs' will to introduce central bank backed digital currencies.

Majestic-milf

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Many people are not in support of crypto adoption and this apathy is stemmed from the belief that it is not trustworthy and it can be used to defraud people. Using the vehement stance of György Matolcsy( Hungarian Central Bank Governor) as an instance; he feels crypto should not be even considered, as it could be used by some members of the EU to fund illegal businesses.
But I think it only seems as if the EU wants to control the finance of individuals by imposing taxes but since crypto does not allow for imposition of taxes, they move to outlaw or ban it. Is he just being a fascist or are is fears founded?? https://www.outlookindia.com/business/hungary-calls-for-total-crypto-ban-in-eu-uber-open-to-crypto-adoption-market-crashes-by-10--news-122319

Topic: Monetary fascism in today's world(EU as case study) (Read 167 times)