Topic: Money isn't real (Read 1897 times)
they are just numbers, like everything
Relevant Video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp51WtvdBm8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp51WtvdBm8
Saying that money isn't real is like saying that words aren't real. But words are real... I use them whenever I write or speak. You could even say that I am using words when I read or listen.
But words aren't real, really. Just like money, they're representations. In other words, https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/b9/MagrittePipe.jpg/300px-MagrittePipe.jpg
The properties of money can be summarized as: scarcity, fungibility, and convenience.
The properties required of a commodity to be used as money, yes. Semantics, I know. But words, though they are not "real," do matter. 
Weird how debates like this go on & on without anyone asking "WTF are we talking about?"
Defining the terms ("Real" & "Money") seems like a good start. You instantly get stuck in a quagmire with "Real," and the thought of getting unstuck & cleaning up afterwards is an unpleasant one. But that's just semantics, so if you're willing to be bored stiff hashing out a formal definition, it's doable.
"Money" is different. It's left undefined not because arriving at a strict formal definition is time consuming & no fun at all, but because no one understands what it is, and the few who claim to understand don't agree with each other. And the problem is not semantic. Now, WTF are we talking about?
Saying that money isn't real is like saying that words aren't real. But words are real... I use them whenever I write or speak. You could even say that I am using words when I read or listen.
But words aren't real, really. Just like money, they're representations. In other words, 
The properties of money can be summarized as: scarcity, fungibility, and convenience.
The properties required of a commodity to be used as money, yes. Semantics, I know. But words, though they are not "real," do matter. 
Saying that money isn't real is like saying that words aren't real. But words are real... I use them whenever I write or speak. You could even say that I am using words when I read or listen.
The properties of money can be summarized as: scarcity, fungibility, and convenience. People usually break "convenience" up into a few more (such as divisibility and portability), but I don't see the point of doing that.
The properties of money can be summarized as: scarcity, fungibility, and convenience. People usually break "convenience" up into a few more (such as divisibility and portability), but I don't see the point of doing that.
Gold on the other hand is "usable" by anyone, hence it has value to anyone/everyone.
That's another necessary quality. 
Just curious, what movie is that quote from?
Blow 2001 - Based on a true story.
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0221027/
George Jung's father stated it. Allegedly.
Just curious, what movie is that quote from?
[...]
Rarity alone does not give gold its value. Rarity is necessary for high value, but not sufficient. I have some pretty drawings from grade school that are quite rare (only a few copies in the whole world), yet no one has offered to buy them yet.
I understand your point.Rarity alone does not give gold its value. Rarity is necessary for high value, but not sufficient. I have some pretty drawings from grade school that are quite rare (only a few copies in the whole world), yet no one has offered to buy them yet.
Nevertheless, your drawings have great value, but only to you since these are memories for YOU. ("usable" by you mostly/only you) Value is not always represented by how likely people want to buy it or how much it costs. So in a way these drawings are very valuable to you.
Gold on the other hand is "usable" by anyone, hence it has value to anyone/everyone.
I'd say that its because the energy and time required to produce an ounce of gold is quite high compared to say... a pair of socks... But probably comparable to the time and energy used to make a really nice suit...
thats probably why you can still buy a pretty nice suit with an ounce of old... there are deviations either way, but thats the basis of its value, the Time and energy spent in obtaining it... kind of like BTC in a way
[...]
Rarity alone does not give gold its value. Rarity is necessary for high value, but not sufficient. I have some pretty drawings from grade school that are quite rare (only a few copies in the whole world), yet no one has offered to buy them yet.
I understand your point.Rarity alone does not give gold its value. Rarity is necessary for high value, but not sufficient. I have some pretty drawings from grade school that are quite rare (only a few copies in the whole world), yet no one has offered to buy them yet.
Nevertheless, your drawings have great value, but only to you since these are memories for YOU. ("usable" by you mostly/only you) Value is not always represented by how likely people want to buy it or how much it costs. So in a way these drawings are very valuable to you.
Gold on the other hand is "usable" by anyone, hence it has value to anyone/everyone.
[...]"what gives gold it's value?". The industrial demand for gold makes up a only small portion of its market value, the rest of the value is entirely made up. When you break it down, all value is subjective. [...]
Gold is a limited supply metal. There is only X amount available and since it is not abundant, it is expensive (has a high value). Money on the other hand is an arbitrary unit and can be (an is) created freely.
I think, Bitcoin can only be compared remotely, as it is more imaginary (existing on computers). Bitcoin's value is difficult to define, in my opinion it comes both from the fact that is is getting more widely accepted as online currency and the fact that people invest in it (both mining hardware and money).
Represents wealth yes, but more correctly, it is an agreement. We all agree that this piece of piece of paper with that number on it represents a certain amount of wealth. Which is also exactly what we do with bitcoin.
And most of my friends still ask me - yea but what gives bitcoin it's value. My answer is always, what gives the money in your pocket value. You'd be amazed at home many people still say "it's backed by gold"...
And most of my friends still ask me - yea but what gives bitcoin it's value. My answer is always, what gives the money in your pocket value. You'd be amazed at home many people still say "it's backed by gold"...
Hope you guys like it.
Am I real? 
Nope, it's just an abstraction. It represents wealth. It's not actually wealth itself. Even commodity money gains a great deal of value from transactional use (the wealth that it represents, as opposed to the wealth it embodies). Which is why inflation is so stupid. It doesn't create new wealth, it just dilutes the representation.
I was always fascinated with this quote, always, always pops into my head. I was surprised no one ever pic quoted this line before, so here it goes.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/i6uvwsiqlivuu6k/money-isnt-real-george_clink_large.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/i6uvwsiqlivuu6k/money-isnt-real-george_clink_large.jpg
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