More government = More homeless? | Bitcointalksearch.org

Fizamcc

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Quote from: aeternus on April 30, 2017, 11:56:21 PM

Quote from: crwth on April 24, 2017, 03:19:43 AM

I don't think that it's the government's fault why they are homeless. Maybe a part of it (not being able to accommodate everyone). The more at fault is the person himself or herself because they won't land there if it weren't probably for their bad decisions. If you grew up being in poverty, it would be hard to get away with it, but if you do good to people, you would eventually get out of it.

This is not always true if most of the population is poor and there are not many chances to get out of it then you may end being poor despite your best efforts.

More precisely, they just do not give a chance that they could provide themselves normally. Just others it will be unprofitable.

aeternus

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Quote from: gollygosh on May 01, 2017, 01:12:59 AM

There are more empty homes than homeless - so what does that say about the species!

I think that says there are misallocation of money in the economy, just look at the bubble and crash and crisis that happened a few years ago that was caused by real estate, people wanted to make money and a bunch of houses that were not needed and that no one could pay were created.

daiyuba1971

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Quote from: Supreemo on April 24, 2017, 11:57:18 PM

Quote from: Lancusters on April 24, 2017, 06:28:48 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 24, 2017, 12:49:37 AM

In the United States, if you look at the homeless people, then you will find that for most of them the condition was caused as a result of drug addiction, gambling, mental illness.etc. The government can't do much in these cases.

Can't or won't? In the US there are entire neighborhoods where people live in trailers. it is the richest country!!! I think that people need to educate financial literacy, and it is in the power of the state.

Yeah, as long as there are government officials that are corrupt, there will be no ending of countless poverty in every part of the world. They are assigned to a higher position because people are expecting more from those people but sometimes those expectations lead to frustrations, and that's what makes people suffer most.

Not sometimes, but almost always it leads to disappointments and it will always be so. People in power care only about themselves and do not want to think about the lives of others.

giantdragon

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United States are a third world country by quality of life now, despite high absolute GDP.

dirokkl

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Quote from: aeternus on April 30, 2017, 11:56:21 PM

Quote from: crwth on April 24, 2017, 03:19:43 AM

I don't think that it's the government's fault why they are homeless. Maybe a part of it (not being able to accommodate everyone). The more at fault is the person himself or herself because they won't land there if it weren't probably for their bad decisions. If you grew up being in poverty, it would be hard to get away with it, but if you do good to people, you would eventually get out of it.

This is not always true if most of the population is poor and there are not many chances to get out of it then you may end being poor despite your best efforts.

I agree. Maybe a person from a poor family can work all his life on low-paid work all his life and he will be missed only by food, and he will not earn a living in his whole life.

gollygosh

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There are more empty homes than homeless - so what does that say about the species!

aeternus

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Quote from: crwth on April 24, 2017, 03:19:43 AM

I don't think that it's the government's fault why they are homeless. Maybe a part of it (not being able to accommodate everyone). The more at fault is the person himself or herself because they won't land there if it weren't probably for their bad decisions. If you grew up being in poverty, it would be hard to get away with it, but if you do good to people, you would eventually get out of it.

This is not always true if most of the population is poor and there are not many chances to get out of it then you may end being poor despite your best efforts.

JGoRed

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Quote from: Lancusters on April 24, 2017, 06:28:48 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 24, 2017, 12:49:37 AM

In the United States, if you look at the homeless people, then you will find that for most of them the condition was caused as a result of drug addiction, gambling, mental illness.etc. The government can't do much in these cases.

Can't or won't? In the US there are entire neighborhoods where people live in trailers. it is the richest country!!! I think that people need to educate financial literacy, and it is in the power of the state.

Quote from: Rembrandt on April 24, 2017, 05:00:44 AM

Homeless is a lifestyle. No one can make me live at home and be sober! Cool

In most cases, they can't because people choose to live the way they do, whether they choose to do drugs, join a gang, or just decide they won't work. Also, yes, the US might be the righest country but we're also a very broad and varied country. You just can't compare inner-city Chicago to the California Hills.

Antoshka

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 25, 2017, 12:17:03 AM

Quote from: Idrisu on April 24, 2017, 02:19:10 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 24, 2017, 12:49:37 AM

In the United States, if you look at the homeless people, then you will find that for most of them the condition was caused as a result of drug addiction, gambling, mental illness.etc. The government can't do much in these cases.

That is in united states how about other countries especially third world countries and developing and underdeveloped currencies in Africa. The government are the major curse of people suffering today. Most of the leaders loot the countries treasury and spent the nation assets In under to remain in power why they countries men are home and live in poverty.

In the third world nations, people don't practice family planning. So the population is increasing, while the resources remain limited. This is the root cause of poverty and homelessness in the third world nations, especially in Africa and Asia.

Yes, in such countries people do not think at all about family planning. They live only for their own pleasure, but they do not care where their children will live.

Horserg

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I don't think it's the government's fault. It is the individual, to have a better home and good living, we help ourselves to feed and get a decent job. We cannot blame everything from government.

Sithara007

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Quote from: Idrisu on April 24, 2017, 02:19:10 AM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 24, 2017, 12:49:37 AM

In the United States, if you look at the homeless people, then you will find that for most of them the condition was caused as a result of drug addiction, gambling, mental illness.etc. The government can't do much in these cases.

That is in united states how about other countries especially third world countries and developing and underdeveloped currencies in Africa. The government are the major curse of people suffering today. Most of the leaders loot the countries treasury and spent the nation assets In under to remain in power why they countries men are home and live in poverty.

In the third world nations, people don't practice family planning. So the population is increasing, while the resources remain limited. This is the root cause of poverty and homelessness in the third world nations, especially in Africa and Asia.

Supreemo

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Quote from: Lancusters on April 24, 2017, 06:28:48 PM

Quote from: Sithara007 on April 24, 2017, 12:49:37 AM

In the United States, if you look at the homeless people, then you will find that for most of them the condition was caused as a result of drug addiction, gambling, mental illness.etc. The government can't do much in these cases.

Can't or won't? In the US there are entire neighborhoods where people live in trailers. it is the richest country!!! I think that people need to educate financial literacy, and it is in the power of the state.

Yeah, as long as there are government officials that are corrupt, there will be no ending of countless poverty in every part of the world. They are assigned to a higher position because people are expecting more from those people but sometimes those expectations lead to frustrations, and that's what makes people suffer most.

darkangel11

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Quote from: Okurkabinladin on April 24, 2017, 05:34:04 PM

Quote from: Berns on April 24, 2017, 04:56:42 AM

Quote from: crwth on April 24, 2017, 03:19:43 AM

I don't think that it's the government's fault why they are homeless. Maybe a part of it (not being able to accommodate everyone). The more at fault is the person himself or herself because they won't land there if it weren't probably for their bad decisions. If you grew up being in poverty, it would be hard to get away with it, but if you do good to people, you would eventually get out of it.

Yes, the government can not be guilty of the fact that a person is lazy. For example, in the countryside you can build a house with firewood yourself and have a small garden around it, but you need to work for it. It's easier to say that the state does not want to provide a chic mansion with a swimming pool.

In first world countries the opposite happens Grin

when poor person starts to chop down wood for self-made house, state employees arrive to send him to prison. I am not even kidding. Unless, you buy permit to build a house of pre-agreed dimensions and buy PRE-CHOPPED certified wood, you willl pay fine and get the house torn down on your expense. Or go to jail and pay for it later. Europe these days...

So government refuses you the option to take care for yourself by both repression and taxation, so you might think - if I just stay in line and work hard, Ill get my chance. No you wont, since government is run like a family bussiness - even in western countries, its ranks are pretty much closed to lower classes. And the ever increasing taxes along with artifical inflation will crush any possibility that you will just save for the future.

Class war has not ended. It is waged from above by both right and LEFT elitists against working class people.

Well said! Government is poison and it's the main cause of poverty.
In the old days there were no homeless people, if you wanted to work you could build your own house and earn honest money by working in farming, construction and so on.
Now you need permits for everything and if you don't get them you get fined.
Just a few examples of stupid laws made to enslave people and make their lives miserable:
You need a permit to build a house on your own land.
You can't build it by yourself, you need a project made by an architect.
Nowadays you need energy performance certificate. This means that you must have an efficient house. If you decide to build a non-insulated wooden house heated with a coal stove, you're not allowed to! You have to be ecologically correct Angry

You can't hunt and fish without a permit, you can't own a gun and you can't bury a dead family member or animal beside your house, even if you have no neighbours so it wouldn't bother anyone.

Lancusters

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 24, 2017, 12:49:37 AM

In the United States, if you look at the homeless people, then you will find that for most of them the condition was caused as a result of drug addiction, gambling, mental illness.etc. The government can't do much in these cases.

Can't or won't? In the US there are entire neighborhoods where people live in trailers. it is the richest country!!! I think that people need to educate financial literacy, and it is in the power of the state.

Okurkabinladin

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Quote from: Berns on April 24, 2017, 04:56:42 AM

Quote from: crwth on April 24, 2017, 03:19:43 AM

I don't think that it's the government's fault why they are homeless. Maybe a part of it (not being able to accommodate everyone). The more at fault is the person himself or herself because they won't land there if it weren't probably for their bad decisions. If you grew up being in poverty, it would be hard to get away with it, but if you do good to people, you would eventually get out of it.

Yes, the government can not be guilty of the fact that a person is lazy. For example, in the countryside you can build a house with firewood yourself and have a small garden around it, but you need to work for it. It's easier to say that the state does not want to provide a chic mansion with a swimming pool.

In first world countries the opposite happens Grin

when poor person starts to chop down wood for self-made house, state employees arrive to send him to prison. I am not even kidding. Unless, you buy permit to build a house of pre-agreed dimensions and buy PRE-CHOPPED certified wood, you willl pay fine and get the house torn down on your expense. Or go to jail and pay for it later. Europe these days...

So government refuses you the option to take care for yourself by both repression and taxation, so you might think - if I just stay in line and work hard, Ill get my chance. No you wont, since government is run like a family bussiness - even in western countries, its ranks are pretty much closed to lower classes. And the ever increasing taxes along with artifical inflation will crush any possibility that you will just save for the future.

Class war has not ended. It is waged from above by both right and LEFT elitists against working class people.

squatz1

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It really matters how efficient the government is in the programs in which they provide to deter people from being homeless. If there isn't much oversight over a certain program like the block grants in the US for community development, it could lead to the money that is supposed to be going to the poor folks just being wasted by politicians.

If the money is used well, it could actually help to ensure that less homeless people are prevalent due to the community being built in order to house them. I would have to say in the end here, it depends on government and competency and the amount of greed people in the government / hired employees for gov have.

Sad, but that's just how the world works.

sikke

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That does not necessarily means that if we have more goverment control, then the bigger part of society suffers because of the growing crime rates and because of becoming homeless.

The big problem with all kind of social benefits, is that it attracts some specific kind of people, that do not want to go to any work, but instead they just prefer to do literally nothing, and watch TV and drink beer.
It is possible thanks to these benefits given by goverment, because if it would not exist, then they would have to go to the work, to eat or drink anything, right? So why do we pay them for doing nothing?! That seems like a really stupid idea for me.

People become homeless sometimes, because of the law enforcement. If someone really poor gets caught with a big amount of drugs, then he will be sentenced with a long penalty.
After that punishment, the unit will not be able to take part in a normal society, the bars have corrupted his mind and such a person can literally do only bad things, after many years spent in "legal" captivity.

Podgor

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Leftists still will still say it's better to have socialism Cheesy

Rembrandt

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Homeless is a lifestyle. No one can make me live at home and be sober! Cool

Berns

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Quote from: crwth on April 24, 2017, 03:19:43 AM

I don't think that it's the government's fault why they are homeless. Maybe a part of it (not being able to accommodate everyone). The more at fault is the person himself or herself because they won't land there if it weren't probably for their bad decisions. If you grew up being in poverty, it would be hard to get away with it, but if you do good to people, you would eventually get out of it.

Yes, the government can not be guilty of the fact that a person is lazy. For example, in the countryside you can build a house with firewood yourself and have a small garden around it, but you need to work for it. It's easier to say that the state does not want to provide a chic mansion with a swimming pool.

yoseph

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Even though most of the homeless people became homeless due to drug abuse and other factors there are others who became homeless due to the fact that they didn't pay their mortgages and others are military personnel who through PTSD and the horrors of war became homeless. I think the government should help with these two groups

crwth

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I don't think that it's the government's fault why they are homeless. Maybe a part of it (not being able to accommodate everyone). The more at fault is the person himself or herself because they won't land there if it weren't probably for their bad decisions. If you grew up being in poverty, it would be hard to get away with it, but if you do good to people, you would eventually get out of it.

Idrisu

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Quote from: Sithara007 on April 24, 2017, 12:49:37 AM

In the United States, if you look at the homeless people, then you will find that for most of them the condition was caused as a result of drug addiction, gambling, mental illness.etc. The government can't do much in these cases.

That is in united states how about other countries especially third world countries and developing and underdeveloped currencies in Africa. The government are the major curse of people suffering today. Most of the leaders loot the countries treasury and spent the nation assets In under to remain in power why they countries men are home and live in poverty.

aeternus

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Crime and poverty will always exist but a government that is too big to be supported by its population will being to become a burden and this is basically the case for almost any government in the world also one of the issues is that governments get bigger but they never get smaller unless a crisis strikes.

Xester

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Quote from: Dwayne_Bamage on April 23, 2017, 09:33:53 PM

Are poverty and crime caused by government over-spending and over-hiring?
If a state employee wins $80,000 a year does that mean a non-state entity must lose $80,000?

Iceland population: 332,529
200 Deployed military personnel (60 per 100,000)
805 Police employees (242 per 100,000)
200 estimated homeless on any given night (60 per 100,000)
124 prisoners (37 per 100,000)

Canada population: 35,160,000
68,000 full-time troops in uniform (193 per 100,000)
69,438 active police officers (198 per 100,000)
36,000 estimated homeless on any given night (102 per 100,000)
41,049 prisoners (117 per 100,000)

USA population: 318,900,000
1,429,995 enlisted military personnel (448 per 100,000)
1,100,000 full-time law enforcement officers (345 per 100,000)
500,000 estimated homeless on any given night (157 per 100,000)
2,220,300 prisoners (696 per 100,000)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Iceland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Police
http://www.prisonstudies.org/country/iceland
http://icelandreview.com/news/2013/10/17/200-people-homeless-reykjavik

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Armed_Forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Canada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_Canada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Canada

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States

That will be not the case since the creation of positions is based on a computation on a given population. If the population of a certain country increases the need for human resource such as on protective services and other welfare services must also be increased to support the needs of the populace. Though the salary of these government personnel are coming from the taxes but if there are no personnel in the government how will these taxes be serviced to the taxpayers.

freedomno1

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Quote from: Dwayne_Bamage on April 23, 2017, 09:33:53 PM

Are poverty and crime caused by government over-spending and over-hiring?
If a state employee wins $80,000 a year does that mean a non-state entity must lose $80,000?

Partially the major recruiters tend to either be the Private Sector or the Government
If the government is taking in to many jobs that leaves less money for the private sector in a sense and less job opportunities if you can't a government approved job.

If your country can get away with lower military spending the stats do change as well look at Japan's as an example.

Japan population: 127.3 million (2013)
Japan (47 per 100,000) Incarcerated
Homeless (Net Cafe) 10 in 100,000
One person for every 10,000 city inhabitants.
197 per 100000 police officers in 2006 (?) Old Data

http://www.gutenberg.us/articles/list_of_countries_by_number_of_police_officers
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japan#Population
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Japan
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Net_cafe_refugee

Sithara007

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In the United States, if you look at the homeless people, then you will find that for most of them the condition was caused as a result of drug addiction, gambling, mental illness.etc. The government can't do much in these cases.

Okurkabinladin

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Basically, yes.

The moment government expands its powers beyond certain degree, it stops being tool and start to be master and parasite on its host population.

The worst thing is, that now emasculated people demand that problems created by government be corrected by even more government. You can see where that leads on countries such as Sweden or France, which used to be rich but nowadays resemble more and more third world. Vast majority of establishment energy is focused on redistributing even more capital from working class (ie. in those two countries taxation actually exceeded 50% long time ago) and fighting each other for the nutriet rich carcass.

In many developed countries, truly rich, industrial men that used to be seen as paramounts and ideals are these days legally "homeless" to prevent state officials from taking away their earned possesions. And majority of people still dont have problem with that, since they were conditioned, that it doesnt matter they are dependant on government hand outs (paid for by them ironically with drakonian taxes), it only matters that their neighbour is better off.

TL,DR. Government is good minion, but terrible master. World of Bernie Sanders is quite dark place.

Dwayne_Bamage

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Are poverty and crime caused by government over-spending and over-hiring?
If a state employee wins $80,000 a year does that mean a non-state entity must lose $80,000?

Iceland population: 332,529
200 Deployed military personnel (60 per 100,000)
805 Police employees (242 per 100,000)
200 estimated homeless on any given night (60 per 100,000)
124 prisoners (37 per 100,000)

Canada population: 35,160,000
68,000 full-time troops in uniform (193 per 100,000)
69,438 active police officers (198 per 100,000)
36,000 estimated homeless on any given night (102 per 100,000)
41,049 prisoners (117 per 100,000)

USA population: 318,900,000
1,429,995 enlisted military personnel (448 per 100,000)
1,100,000 full-time law enforcement officers (345 per 100,000)
500,000 estimated homeless on any given night (157 per 100,000)
2,220,300 prisoners (696 per 100,000)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Military_of_Iceland
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icelandic_Police
http://www.prisonstudies.org/country/iceland
http://icelandreview.com/news/2013/10/17/200-people-homeless-reykjavik

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Armed_Forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_Canada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_Canada
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_Canada

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Armed_Forces
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Law_enforcement_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incarceration_in_the_United_States
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homelessness_in_the_United_States

Topic: More government = More homeless? (Read 1204 times)