Mt Gox hackers selling off their $650 million - is that keeping price down?

dothebeats

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 28, 2015, 01:03:17 PM

I suspect this will remain a fave boogeyman for a long time to come unless/ until we actually find out what's what because let's face it, we're running low on them now and people love a good panic. I will let it give me sleepless nights when there are some facts on the table.

The thieves seemed to run away with it flawlessly without actually leaving a solid trace. Up until now, there have been no convicted of the case, which is quite saddening for the people who lost lots of money in Gox. Until facts are laid within our eyes, the thieves will remain in anonymous to us.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

I suspect this will remain a fave boogeyman for a long time to come unless/ until we actually find out what's what because let's face it, we're running low on them now and people love a good panic. I will let it give me sleepless nights when there are some facts on the table.

dothebeats

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on July 27, 2015, 05:29:41 AM

If the hackers are intelligent which I presume they are, they'll hold at least half of their coins long term instead of selling all over the place for peanuts. Then again i dont think any hacking was involved, it was just an inside job.

Yup. I think whoever was the thief on that one wouldn't be that dumb to sell all the coins at once, given that each time the thief sells the coins, it will only apply downward pressure price-wise. Willy bot + Gox fiasco = easy money for the thieves.

belmonty

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Quote from: ransomer on July 27, 2015, 02:41:51 PM

Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on July 27, 2015, 05:29:41 AM

If the hackers are intelligent which I presume they are, they'll hold at least half of their coins long term instead of selling all over the place for peanuts. Then again i dont think any hacking was involved, it was just an inside job.

The Winklevoss are rich and are expected to hold.

Some random greasy geek sitting in a basement is likely to buy a lamboghini, sponsor a sports team and overall do silly stuff with it. History shows that people who get their wealth in a flash often spend it very quickly. Sports stars, lotto winners, criminals.. etc.

But even if he/they kept half... $325 mill is still a huge amount for a market with the liquidity of the bitcoin market. An amount that could depress the market for many months (or years)...and maybe it already has.

I think most of the volume traded on exchanges is fake so it doesn't take much to push the price up or down. Dumping a million dollars of Bitcoins will inevitably push the price down, and buying them will inevitably push the price up. 325 million dollars of Bitcoins would take years to dump without pushing the price down to double digits.

MF Doom

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Quote from: bryant.coleman on July 27, 2015, 04:29:35 AM

Quote from: gentlemand on July 26, 2015, 04:20:41 PM

No one admits to knowing what happened even after all this time. The most convincing theories suppose that if there was a significant theft it happened in 2011/12. Even that's pure guesswork.

When Jed McCaleb sold Mt Gox to Mark Karpelès on 6 March 2011, the exchange held a total of BTC450,000. There is proof for the holdings at that time. However, once Mark Karpelès gained control of the exchange, the coins started slowly vanishing. By 2012 January, some BTC500,000 have been stolen. The gap widened to BTC750,000 by the beginning of 2013.

Is it unreasonable to think that somehow the former owners had backdoor access allowing them to siphon off the btc holdings after the sale? Maybe not, I'm not really sure if this theory has been floated around before, but the correlation between the coins beginning to vanish right after the sale is a little strange. Either Karpeles is completely incompetent, or something fishy happened during the sale of the exchange.

techgeek

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on July 26, 2015, 04:28:14 PM

My personal opinion (based on gut feeling) is that most of that selling
already happened during the bear trend from $1000 down to $200.

My feeling is also that Karpeles was involved.

It def had to be karples if there was a huge sell off.

I mean they kept a lot of the people in the dark on their true real prices so I`d expect something shady like that anyways where he did sell it off at that highest point.

And then kept some for reserve.

mrhelpful

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Quote from: WhatTheGox on July 27, 2015, 05:07:24 AM

Quote from: ransomer on July 26, 2015, 04:15:36 PM

Selling them has and will take a while - what will happen to the price when they finish selling them?

I think we are probably past this stage by now dont you think? looks like the market has turned around i also cant imagine that they would sell all the coins, how much money do hackers need in one year to live?

You never know, some people like new faces who arent aware of the whole mt.gox story are uninformed.

As for the hackers of having money in 1 year, they really dont if they are that good. They can hit multiple atm locations at once and cash out when they need to. This happened to citi bank, there was article but im sure you can google it.

Meuh6879

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on July 26, 2015, 04:28:14 PM

My feeling is also that Karpeles was involved.

and with 1,8 millions of bitcoins ... it can.

for a life in exil ... but with plenty of money, too.

smart move.

didn't catch, too.

a real bankster ... Cheesy

ransomer

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on July 27, 2015, 05:29:41 AM

If the hackers are intelligent which I presume they are, they'll hold at least half of their coins long term instead of selling all over the place for peanuts. Then again i dont think any hacking was involved, it was just an inside job.

The Winklevoss are rich and are expected to hold.

Some random greasy geek sitting in a basement is likely to buy a lamboghini, sponsor a sports team and overall do silly stuff with it. History shows that people who get their wealth in a flash often spend it very quickly. Sports stars, lotto winners, criminals.. etc.

But even if he/they kept half... $325 mill is still a huge amount for a market with the liquidity of the bitcoin market. An amount that could depress the market for many months (or years)...and maybe it already has.

Bitcoinpro

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Quote from: AtheistAKASaneBrain on July 27, 2015, 05:29:41 AM

If the hackers are intelligent which I presume they are, they'll hold at least half of their coins long term instead of selling all over the place for peanuts. Then again i dont think any hacking was involved, it was just an inside job.

it was no doubt a traing operation

ever seen Enemy of the State

" lets blend "

my fav part

yesterday i watched US Marshalls

so wat ya gonna do now?

Catch him

AtheistAKASaneBrain

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If the hackers are intelligent which I presume they are, they'll hold at least half of their coins long term instead of selling all over the place for peanuts. Then again i dont think any hacking was involved, it was just an inside job.

Bitcoinpro

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 26, 2015, 04:20:41 PM

No one admits to knowing what happened even after all this time. The most convincing theories suppose that if there was a significant theft it happened in 2011/12. Even that's pure guesswork.

ive got a pretty good idea

remember how he let matt into his office

Amph

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the price will build a solid floor if we can tank that amount which is about 600+ times more stronger than a dump from miner that is performed each day, 3600 x 300

i would not consider it as a scary as many think, and i doubt that it will be sold all at once

WhatTheGox

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Quote from: ransomer on July 26, 2015, 04:15:36 PM

Selling them has and will take a while - what will happen to the price when they finish selling them?

I think we are probably past this stage by now dont you think? looks like the market has turned around i also cant imagine that they would sell all the coins, how much money do hackers need in one year to live?

OmegaStarScream

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It's most likely an inside job but till now no body went to jail , right ? then I guess moving them and start to selling them will make goverment start moving and do their job and they should do the necessary job to catch them .
I wasen't here when all this happened but I'd assume they don't even know the adress where all bitcoins went to for the moment ? but how a huge amount as this could dissapaear and not found on the blockchain unless they splitted them to shitload of pieces & small amounts ? Huh

bryant.coleman

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 26, 2015, 04:20:41 PM

No one admits to knowing what happened even after all this time. The most convincing theories suppose that if there was a significant theft it happened in 2011/12. Even that's pure guesswork.

When Jed McCaleb sold Mt Gox to Mark Karpelès on 6 March 2011, the exchange held a total of BTC450,000. There is proof for the holdings at that time. However, once Mark Karpelès gained control of the exchange, the coins started slowly vanishing. By 2012 January, some BTC500,000 have been stolen. The gap widened to BTC750,000 by the beginning of 2013.

S4VV4S

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Quote from: NorrisK on July 27, 2015, 01:50:11 AM

If the coins were really already lost in 2011/2012, wouldn't they have sold long before the 1200 peak already? Probably closer to the first real peak around the 100-260 range..

I believe that has been discussed before.
And it was said that, that is the reason for the williy bot.
It should be fairly easy (and fun) for one to go through the leaked database and check the transactions.

Furio

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There never were any hackers, team MTgox fucked their customers and took the money theirselves, plenty of evidence supporting that....

madonnino

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I ❤ www.LuckyB.it!

probably, after reading a little 'stories have come to the conclusion that it is more' likely that bitcoins have been stolen and sold long before the collapse of mtgox

NorrisK

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If the coins were really already lost in 2011/2012, wouldn't they have sold long before the 1200 peak already? Probably closer to the first real peak around the 100-260 range..

monsanto

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..like bright metal on a sullen ground.

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ransomer on July 26, 2015, 04:43:30 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on July 26, 2015, 04:28:14 PM

My personal opinion (based on gut feeling) is that most of that selling
already happened during the bear trend from $1000 down to $200.

My feeling is also that Karpeles was involved.

So you think their selling off drove the bear stage, and that they now are mostly sold - and that is why we are seeing a plateu and starting rise in price again?

We are past major dumps, there was also the 15 million worth of coins from (coinbase?) an exchange and the silk road coins, I think we should be pretty much on the up and up from here on out (not counting the little variation throughout the day)

Unless Satoshi decides to dump. Wink

grendel25

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That's a good question to the point of which of the Mt Gox factors would impact the price of bitcoin the most. There are the shock/confidence factors and then the literal supply/demand factors. It's all so convoluted at this point. Some people say the Chinese were dictating the price at one point. Maybe they were with hacked Mt Gox coins. Hard to say, really. Maybe that's part of the appeal of bitcoin too.

unamis76

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How do you know these coins are being sold? Is there any blockchain evidence that backs this up?

Even if they are being sold, I don't really think that's what's keeping the price down, the real question lately is how the price is so high like this? Cheesy

Kazimir

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Quote from: ransomer on July 26, 2015, 04:15:36 PM

Selling them has and will take a while - what will happen to the price when they finish selling them?

Mt Gox hackers? As far as I know, Mark Karpeles worked alone?

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

Quote from: ransomer on July 26, 2015, 04:43:30 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on July 26, 2015, 04:28:14 PM

My personal opinion (based on gut feeling) is that most of that selling
already happened during the bear trend from $1000 down to $200.

My feeling is also that Karpeles was involved.

So you think their selling off drove the bear stage, and that they now are mostly sold - and that is why we are seeing a plateu and starting rise in price again?

Markets don't move entirely because of a single player, even a huge player like Gox.
So I wouldn't ascribe a simple cause and effect relationship like you're asking, but
it could be a factor. Also keep in mind there is still significant selling pressure from miners.
I do expect the havling that happens in 2016 to create major increases in price, although
that may happen somewhat prior as speculators position themselves. So part of the bull
run now may be anticipatory in that regard, although I still expect another leg up after
the halving.

ransomer

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Quote from: cryptothreads on July 26, 2015, 04:49:18 PM

Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ransomer on July 26, 2015, 04:43:30 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on July 26, 2015, 04:28:14 PM

My personal opinion (based on gut feeling) is that most of that selling
already happened during the bear trend from $1000 down to $200.

My feeling is also that Karpeles was involved.

So you think their selling off drove the bear stage, and that they now are mostly sold - and that is why we are seeing a plateu and starting rise in price again?

We are past major dumps, there was also the 15 million worth of coins from (coinbase?) an exchange and the silk road coins, I think we should be pretty much on the up and up from here on out (not counting the little variation throughout the day)

I have a feeling you are correct on this .

Someone with a sharp eye on the turnover of btc could have a good idea of this... but yes you could certainly be right.

If so - then I guess we are headed up price-wise. However, probably not until after a period of uncertainty and people taking gains in small leaps (has this period also almost happened?) because of the whole rise-and-fall we have seen.

cryptothreads

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Quote from: ?? on ??

Quote from: ransomer on July 26, 2015, 04:43:30 PM

Quote from: jonald_fyookball on July 26, 2015, 04:28:14 PM

My personal opinion (based on gut feeling) is that most of that selling
already happened during the bear trend from $1000 down to $200.

My feeling is also that Karpeles was involved.

So you think their selling off drove the bear stage, and that they now are mostly sold - and that is why we are seeing a plateu and starting rise in price again?

We are past major dumps, there was also the 15 million worth of coins from (coinbase?) an exchange and the silk road coins, I think we should be pretty much on the up and up from here on out (not counting the little variation throughout the day)

I have a feeling you are correct on this .

ransomer

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Quote from: jonald_fyookball on July 26, 2015, 04:28:14 PM

My personal opinion (based on gut feeling) is that most of that selling
already happened during the bear trend from $1000 down to $200.

My feeling is also that Karpeles was involved.

So you think their selling off drove the bear stage, and that they now are mostly sold - and that is why we are seeing a plateu and starting rise in price again?

sana9821

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Quote from: fryarminer on July 26, 2015, 04:28:33 PM

Quote from: ransomer on July 26, 2015, 04:15:36 PM

Selling them has and will take a while - what will happen to the price when they finish selling them?

What makes you think they are or want to sell them?

why wouldnt they want to sell it? wouldnt you do it if you have that much bitcoins? its easy money for them now and they want to cash out as much as possible though its just my guess

fryarminer

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Quote from: ransomer on July 26, 2015, 04:15:36 PM

Selling them has and will take a while - what will happen to the price when they finish selling them?

What makes you think they are or want to sell them?

jonald_fyookball

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Core dev leaves me neg feedback #abuse #political

My personal opinion (based on gut feeling) is that most of that selling
already happened during the bear trend from $1000 down to $200.

My feeling is also that Karpeles was involved.

ransomer

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Quote from: gentlemand on July 26, 2015, 04:20:41 PM

No one admits to knowing what happened even after all this time. The most convincing theories suppose that if there was a significant theft it happened in 2011/12. Even that's pure guesswork.

Regardless of when it happened, the question remains the same.

gentlemand

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Welt Am Draht

No one admits to knowing what happened even after all this time. The most convincing theories suppose that if there was a significant theft it happened in 2011/12. Even that's pure guesswork.

ransomer

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Selling them has and will take a while - what will happen to the price when they finish selling them?

Topic: Mt Gox hackers selling off their $650 million - is that keeping price down? (Read 2175 times)