Topic: MT.Gox caught lying again (Read 7184 times)
It is becoming a usual thing so I'm not surprised they are lying again. It's like their unique company's policy to work with clients.
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FUCKYOU!! nobody cares about you or what you lost due to mtgox! BFL SUCKS4LIFE!
I understand your anger here. I was never involved with BFL as a customer, because I watched from the sidelines, and what I could see did not look good, it was about as bad as what Inaba said about MtGox. Kind of weird that he foresaw MtGox's demise like this, but at the same time participated in pretty much the same kind of bs with BFL. Perhaps it was the money? Or perhaps it started legit, and then he just got suckered in, and either was blinded by profit or showed his true personality. I don't know at all. But he was right about Gox for sure.
He may be right about gox but I lost over 30K buying into the BFL hype. I wont go into to much detail but lets just say I wish the same harm to the BFL team that I do to the MtGox team.
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FUCKYOU!! nobody cares about you or what you lost due to mtgox! BFL SUCKS4LIFE!
I understand your anger here. I was never involved with BFL as a customer, because I watched from the sidelines, and what I could see did not look good, it was about as bad as what Inaba said about MtGox. Kind of weird that he foresaw MtGox's demise like this, but at the same time participated in pretty much the same kind of bs with BFL. Perhaps it was the money? Or perhaps it started legit, and then he just got suckered in, and either was blinded by profit or showed his true personality. I don't know at all. But he was right about Gox for sure.
So, I tried to get the rest of my money out of MTGOX since my last thread on the subject. I did this in two withdrawals of $3000 and $10,000. I was assured at the time it would take 6 business days. Well, 6 business days came and went two times over, and no money. So I sent another support ticket to see what kind of lies and bullshit they would feed me this time, and it was a real gem:
First, I asked (nay, demanded) that they cancel the Dwolla deposits, since they clearly have no intention of honoring them, but gave them the option of sending me the funds either via wire or courier (at their expense). I reiterated this several times over and here is the response I got:
Of course, the $3000 credited only AFTER I had sent the message to support. I'm sure it would have never credited if I never sent a message to support.
So I responded with this:
Once again, pointing out that it's been over two weeks AND it was not over $10,000.
Ooops! MTGox, caught in another lie, so here's the back pedal:
So now it's "$10,000 and over" ... of course, there was no mention of this at the time of withdrawal or during my previous conversation with support over the botched withdrawal last time. Of course, no mention of the fact that it's been over two weeks anyway, so even if there was some arbitrary $10,000 limit, the timeframe has expired.
I'm sure I'll get some bullshit response to my follow up messages pointing out the fact that it's been more than two weeks and that there is no mention of some arbitrary limit.
This is why you should not use MTGox. They are lying, they continue to lie and have absolutely no regard for customer service. They remind me very much of some of the shadier customer service centers from the late 90's and early 2000's where the mantra was "Tell the customer anything to get them off the line." It doesn't matter if it's true or not, just tell them whatever so they shut up and we can continue to rob them.
MTGox is exceptionally dishonest and untrustworthy in the extreme. Anyone doing business with them is eventually going to wind up burned (again). I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of convenient security breach or hack that somehow manages to drain user accounts when there's a major problem or the insolvency of Gox actually starts things crashing down. All the signs are there, the secretiveness, the lies and stall tactics, etc... all major indicators of internal problems that they do not want the public to know. Just take it as a warning.
First, I asked (nay, demanded) that they cancel the Dwolla deposits, since they clearly have no intention of honoring them, but gave them the option of sending me the funds either via wire or courier (at their expense). I reiterated this several times over and here is the response I got:
Quote
We see that your 3,000 USD withdrawal has been processed and should now be in your account. As for your 10,000 USD withdrawal, please be advised that withdrawals over 10,000 USD take at least 2 weeks to complete. Thank you for your patience in the process.
Of course, the $3000 credited only AFTER I had sent the message to support. I'm sure it would have never credited if I never sent a message to support.
So I responded with this:
Quote
A) It's been more than two weeks
B) It's not over $10,000, so it doesn't apply.
You apparently failed to read the paragraph I asked you to re-read until you understood it. Please read it again.
I expect a certified check or courier tomorrow, June 6th. I am tired of the lying.
B) It's not over $10,000, so it doesn't apply.
You apparently failed to read the paragraph I asked you to re-read until you understood it. Please read it again.
I expect a certified check or courier tomorrow, June 6th. I am tired of the lying.
Once again, pointing out that it's been over two weeks AND it was not over $10,000.
Ooops! MTGox, caught in another lie, so here's the back pedal:
Quote
Unfortunately, we regret to inform you that as we are not located in the US, we are unable to send funds via courier. The 2 weeks + interval applies to withdrawals of at least 10,000 USD and over that amount. Thank you for your patience in the process.
So now it's "$10,000 and over" ... of course, there was no mention of this at the time of withdrawal or during my previous conversation with support over the botched withdrawal last time. Of course, no mention of the fact that it's been over two weeks anyway, so even if there was some arbitrary $10,000 limit, the timeframe has expired.
I'm sure I'll get some bullshit response to my follow up messages pointing out the fact that it's been more than two weeks and that there is no mention of some arbitrary limit.
This is why you should not use MTGox. They are lying, they continue to lie and have absolutely no regard for customer service. They remind me very much of some of the shadier customer service centers from the late 90's and early 2000's where the mantra was "Tell the customer anything to get them off the line." It doesn't matter if it's true or not, just tell them whatever so they shut up and we can continue to rob them.
MTGox is exceptionally dishonest and untrustworthy in the extreme. Anyone doing business with them is eventually going to wind up burned (again). I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of convenient security breach or hack that somehow manages to drain user accounts when there's a major problem or the insolvency of Gox actually starts things crashing down. All the signs are there, the secretiveness, the lies and stall tactics, etc... all major indicators of internal problems that they do not want the public to know. Just take it as a warning.
FUCKYOU!! nobody cares about you or what you lost due to mtgox! BFL SUCKS4LIFE!
MTGox is exceptionally dishonest and untrustworthy in the extreme. Anyone doing business with them is eventually going to wind up burned (again). I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of convenient security breach or hack that somehow manages to drain user accounts when there's a major problem or the insolvency of Gox actually starts things crashing down. All the signs are there, the secretiveness, the lies and stall tactics, etc... all major indicators of internal problems that they do not want the public to know. Just take it as a warning.
Wow, Josh called it spot on nearly two years early.pretty funny though if you take that quote and replace "Gox" with "BFL"
MTGox is exceptionally dishonest and untrustworthy in the extreme. Anyone doing business with them is eventually going to wind up burned (again). I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of convenient security breach or hack that somehow manages to drain user accounts when there's a major problem or the insolvency of Gox actually starts things crashing down. All the signs are there, the secretiveness, the lies and stall tactics, etc... all major indicators of internal problems that they do not want the public to know. Just take it as a warning.
Wow, Josh called it spot on nearly two years early. MTGox is exceptionally dishonest and untrustworthy in the extreme. Anyone doing business with them is eventually going to wind up burned (again). I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of convenient security breach or hack that somehow manages to drain user accounts when there's a major problem or the insolvency of Gox actually starts things crashing down. All the signs are there, the secretiveness, the lies and stall tactics, etc... all major indicators of internal problems that they do not want the public to know. Just take it as a warning.
Inaba wasn't goxed.
(I will refrain from commenting on his other dealings on this forum.)
Mt. Gox outright deleted one of my accounts when I still had money in it (hardly anything, but that's beside the point). I was given absolutely no warning, no notice, and even though I have posted about it several times on this forum, they have never responded about it to this day.
I consider this outright stealing. I have no direct evidence of this, but it's the only assumption I can make at this point.
Did you obtain express permission from them before opening more than one account?
Quote from: MtGox ToS
Members may only have one Account at any one time and may not create or use any Account other than their own. For a Member to be exempt from any of these rules, he/she must request express and prior permission from the Platform. The creation or use of Accounts without obtaining such prior express permission from the Platform will lead to the immediate suspension of all said Accounts, as well as all pending purchase/sale offers.
That's the thing. I didn't have more than one account. I only created a 2nd one (and have never even used it, simply created it) after I found out that my first account was gone and irretrievable. How did I know it was gone? Well, I had my account name and password saved in 3 different locations (both of which were over 20+ random characters, numbers, and symbols) and copying and pasting them from all 3 locations (to make sure I didn't make a mistake somewhere) didn't work. Also, password retrieval didn't work even after multiple attempts. It simply appears as if my email address and account were nowhere to be found in their database. Also, my email password is also 20+ random characters, numbers, and symbols, and is backed by 2-factor authentication.
Mt. Gox outright deleted one of my accounts when I still had money in it (hardly anything, but that's beside the point). I was given absolutely no warning, no notice, and even though I have posted about it several times on this forum, they have never responded about it to this day.
I consider this outright stealing. I have no direct evidence of this, but it's the only assumption I can make at this point.
Did you obtain express permission from them before opening more than one account?
Quote from: MtGox ToS
Members may only have one Account at any one time and may not create or use any Account other than their own. For a Member to be exempt from any of these rules, he/she must request express and prior permission from the Platform. The creation or use of Accounts without obtaining such prior express permission from the Platform will lead to the immediate suspension of all said Accounts, as well as all pending purchase/sale offers.
Quote from: rjk
Dwolla does only work with US banks, but the amount being withdrawn is greater than the amount being funded with that method, so they are indeed having to wire funds to Dwolla to enable withdrawals. Still shouldn't take that long though.
It's absolutely possible that either their Japanese bank or their US bank imposes a monthly limit on how much they can wire transfer. Just as the exchanges set limits for different levels of users, so do banks - and a Bitcoin exchange is going to automatically be regarded as high-risk for both fraud and money laundering and subjected to more stringent limits.
In MtGox's position, until it's clear whether Dwolla is going to continue their business relationship and on what terms, the most sensible course of action to protect user funds is to keep a minimum amount of money on Dwolla and transfer funds into the account on an as-needed basis. The other option would be for them to cease Dwolla transactions until Dwolla clarifies their intention, but people would bitch and moan about that even more than they do about the delays.
Dwolla's delay in clarifying their intentions regarding trading with MtGox is ridiculous.
Dwolla does only work with US banks, but the amount being withdrawn is greater than the amount being funded with that method, so they are indeed having to wire funds to Dwolla to enable withdrawals. Still shouldn't take that long though.
It shouldn't. That's correct.
MtGox says they're having trouble with US banking institutions, tho. But they also said it only affects about 5% of their costumers. Maybe it also affects them and not only their customers
Or maybe it's only affecting them, and customers get affected indirectly by the cash flow problems.
Who knows lol
Dwolla does only work with US banks, but the amount being withdrawn is greater than the amount being funded with that method, so they are indeed having to wire funds to Dwolla to enable withdrawals. Still shouldn't take that long though.
I think that if you're withdrawing something like 10K to Dwolla - it's highly likely there could be delays in the international banking system, or in Dwolla itself.
Wait, what?
I think I've heard that Dwolla only works with US bank accounts, dude...
Or are you trying to say that MtGox doesn't get enough Dwolla deposits to cover Dwolla withdrawals and needs to wire money from Japan to their US bank account to fund Dwolla?
I find that hard to believe, being Dwolla one of the most popular methods used to fund MtGox accounts with USD.
Take out your MtGox defensor costume and get back to the real world, k?
Are you suggesting mtgox should pre-emptively hold massive sums in the Dwolla system for the convenience of speedy withdrawals? Do you not see the risk in them holding funds with a 3rd party like that? (especially one so wary of anything bitcoin-related as Dwolla is)
Also - when they do international transfers of large amounts, they can't just say 'oh.. this is all mtgox money'. The whole point of AML stuff is that the underlying owner of the funds has to be declared.
Your idea that it's just a matter of mtgox having a Dwolla account and therefore being free to do any transfers instantly to other Dwolla users is childishly naive.
Also - when they do international transfers of large amounts, they can't just say 'oh.. this is all mtgox money'. The whole point of AML stuff is that the underlying owner of the funds has to be declared.
Your idea that it's just a matter of mtgox having a Dwolla account and therefore being free to do any transfers instantly to other Dwolla users is childishly naive.
Do you think it takes a month to top up a dwolla account even if that was the case ?
I think that if you're withdrawing something like 10K to Dwolla - it's highly likely there could be delays in the international banking system, or in Dwolla itself.
I also think that if a bank or Dwolla decides to investigate a certain large transfer, they may even decide to stop processing other transfers in the queue from the same source account until it's resolved.
It's the assumption here that mtgox is the source of the delay, or even that they should somehow know the extent of a particular delay that I'm challenging.
You cannot assume that mtgox can just 'top up' an account and allocate it later. It's quite likely that for an international funds transfer they have to explicitly list all the underlying IDs of the people to whom the funds will actually go. These guys are pumping a lot of funds, and so are under a lot of scrutiny.
To a large extent, it doesn't even matter if Mt. Gox is the source of the delay.
Mt. Gox has clearly demonstrated time and time again utter incompetency with respect to customer service. There have been literally dozens and dozens of complaints in the past few months alone. Customers are left in the dark for weeks and weeks on end, or, in my case, indefinitely.
Mt. Gox outright deleted one of my accounts when I still had money in it (hardly anything, but that's beside the point). I was given absolutely no warning, no notice, and even though I have posted about it several times on this forum, they have never responded about it to this day.
I consider this outright stealing. I have no direct evidence of this, but it's the only assumption I can make at this point.
Are you suggesting mtgox should pre-emptively hold massive sums in the Dwolla system for the convenience of speedy withdrawals? Do you not see the risk in them holding funds with a 3rd party like that? (especially one so wary of anything bitcoin-related as Dwolla is)
Also - when they do international transfers of large amounts, they can't just say 'oh.. this is all mtgox money'. The whole point of AML stuff is that the underlying owner of the funds has to be declared.
Your idea that it's just a matter of mtgox having a Dwolla account and therefore being free to do any transfers instantly to other Dwolla users is childishly naive.
Also - when they do international transfers of large amounts, they can't just say 'oh.. this is all mtgox money'. The whole point of AML stuff is that the underlying owner of the funds has to be declared.
Your idea that it's just a matter of mtgox having a Dwolla account and therefore being free to do any transfers instantly to other Dwolla users is childishly naive.
Do you think it takes a month to top up a dwolla account even if that was the case ?
I think that if you're withdrawing something like 10K to Dwolla - it's highly likely there could be delays in the international banking system, or in Dwolla itself.
I also think that if a bank or Dwolla decides to investigate a certain large transfer, they may even decide to stop processing other transfers in the queue from the same source account until it's resolved.
It's the assumption here that mtgox is the source of the delay, or even that they should somehow know the extent of a particular delay that I'm challenging.
You cannot assume that mtgox can just 'top up' an account and allocate it later. It's quite likely that for an international funds transfer they have to explicitly list all the underlying IDs of the people to whom the funds will actually go. These guys are pumping a lot of funds, and so are under a lot of scrutiny.
Are you suggesting mtgox should pre-emptively hold massive sums in the Dwolla system for the convenience of speedy withdrawals? Do you not see the risk in them holding funds with a 3rd party like that? (especially one so wary of anything bitcoin-related as Dwolla is)
Also - when they do international transfers of large amounts, they can't just say 'oh.. this is all mtgox money'. The whole point of AML stuff is that the underlying owner of the funds has to be declared.
Your idea that it's just a matter of mtgox having a Dwolla account and therefore being free to do any transfers instantly to other Dwolla users is childishly naive.
Also - when they do international transfers of large amounts, they can't just say 'oh.. this is all mtgox money'. The whole point of AML stuff is that the underlying owner of the funds has to be declared.
Your idea that it's just a matter of mtgox having a Dwolla account and therefore being free to do any transfers instantly to other Dwolla users is childishly naive.
Do you think it takes a month to top up a dwolla account even if that was the case ?
Well, my Dwolla withdrawal processed today, magically after I rejected the request to cancel it.
Coincidences are like magic aren't they.
You'll see it how you *want* to see it I guess.
It's clear from this thread that you don't understand how inter-bank transfers work, and that your default assumption for any problem is 'gox dunnit'.
Good grief. I don't doubt that mtgox have their fair share of inefficiencies - but this sort of ranting thread is just retarded.
Mr Potato Head. MtGox has a Dwolla account. Inaba has a Dwolla account. Moving some money from one to the other inside the Dwolla system can (and has) taken place instantly.
The fact that investors small and large are being hit with incredible delays and missing money reeks of big problems in the organization. There is nothing on the MtGox status page that indicates what the hell is going on - not that it matters though because I've caught mtgox pre-dating stuff they put up there by several days. MtGox has been as opaque as possible; they won't say what the problems are with withdrawls, they won't make available or return funds that are in their accounts even if the transfers were initiated pre-ID requirement, they won't describe how they will use and protect the identities that are being required of users. They are entering into the "do not trust" area where one might even anticipate a limited run on investor funds will be unable to be paid out. Withdraw your money now if you think you might need it mid-July (or later) would be the prudent advice to anyone that has government currency there.
Are you suggesting mtgox should pre-emptively hold massive sums in the Dwolla system for the convenience of speedy withdrawals? Do you not see the risk in them holding funds with a 3rd party like that? (especially one so wary of anything bitcoin-related as Dwolla is)
Also - when they do international transfers of large amounts, they can't just say 'oh.. this is all mtgox money'. The whole point of AML stuff is that the underlying owner of the funds has to be declared.
Your idea that it's just a matter of mtgox having a Dwolla account and therefore being free to do any transfers instantly to other Dwolla users is childishly naive.
The fact that investors small and large are being hit with incredible delays and missing money reeks of big problems in the organization. There is nothing on the MtGox status page that indicates what the hell is going on - not that it matters though because I've caught mtgox pre-dating stuff they put up there by several days. MtGox has been as opaque as possible; they won't say what the problems are with withdrawls, they won't make available or return funds that are in their accounts even if the transfers were initiated pre-ID requirement, they won't describe how they will use and protect the identities that are being required of users. They are entering into the "do not trust" area where one might even anticipate a limited run on investor funds will be unable to be paid out. Withdraw your money now if you think you might need it mid-July (or later) would be the prudent advice to anyone that has government currency there.
They've posted about the Dwolla problems.
Quote
Last month in May we processed 2,459 USD Dwolla withdrawals for a total of 2.17 million USD.
The number of delayed withdrawals are 8.54% of the total USD withdrawals and represent 13.25% of the 2.17 million USD through Dwolla.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.956588
Well, my Dwolla withdrawal processed today, magically after I rejected the request to cancel it.
Coincidences are like magic aren't they.
You'll see it how you *want* to see it I guess.
It's clear from this thread that you don't understand how inter-bank transfers work, and that your default assumption for any problem is 'gox dunnit'.
Good grief. I don't doubt that mtgox have their fair share of inefficiencies - but this sort of ranting thread is just retarded.
Mr Potato Head. MtGox has a Dwolla account. Inaba has a Dwolla account. Moving some money from one to the other inside the Dwolla system can (and has) taken place instantly.
The fact that investors small and large are being hit with incredible delays and missing money reeks of big problems in the organization. There is nothing on the MtGox status page that indicates what the hell is going on - not that it matters though because I've caught mtgox pre-dating stuff they put up there by several days. MtGox has been as opaque as possible; they won't say what the problems are with withdrawls, they won't make available or return funds that are in their accounts even if the transfers were initiated pre-ID requirement, they won't describe how they will use and protect the identities that are being required of users. They are entering into the "do not trust" area where one might even anticipate a limited run on investor funds will be unable to be paid out. Withdraw your money now if you think you might need it mid-July (or later) would be the prudent advice to anyone that has government currency there.
Well, my Dwolla withdrawal processed today, magically after I rejected the request to cancel it.
Coincidences are like magic aren't they.
You'll see it how you *want* to see it I guess.
It's clear from this thread that you don't understand how inter-bank transfers work, and that your default assumption for any problem is 'gox dunnit'.
Good grief. I don't doubt that mtgox have their fair share of inefficiencies - but this sort of ranting thread is just retarded.
they suspected money laundering it seems. but there policy is they dont do it unless they have proof. so i have been trying to get them to give me info about this. i have no had time to respond to their last post hen they said they no longer think i am laundering money. proof must mean suspect in japan... there is a thread about it in the trade discussion, they stickied it i think.
Quote
they did admit they screwed up, but it does not fit their policy on when they call the police on their customers... i just want to know why they keep saying their policy is only when they have proof when they clearly did not have it. i also have asked many times about information to clear my name but no response. it is almost lawyer time:(
I can't find a whole lot in English about Japan's specific reporting requirements, but elsewhere the requirement to report is triggered by suspicious activity (and your circumstances would have met that benchmark elsewhere so they may do so in Japan too). Although it does have a financial intelligence unit, Japan's AML/CTF regulatory authority seems to operate as part of their police force (it's a separate entity in some countries). I think they're using the word "proof" in a non-typical manner and that's creating confusion.
FUD?
I've given Mt Gox all my ID. Everything I do with BTC investment is legit and has a paper trail. Including ID.
I acknowledge there are AML issues that BTC related organisations must face, but it seems that some of these companies are taking advantage of this to their own ends. The ends not relating to us customers in a positive way.
What is worse than FUD is when a business leverages its clients just for its profit. I have no problem with a business making money, but when MY money is held up for 21 days for no explainable reason that really annoys me.
It has been said that if governments don't like Bitcoin, then one thing they can go after is the exchanges. The anti-money-laundering pressure is such government intervention; if you want to do business with banks, you have to comply, and eventually the Fed wants to regulate you directly. I'm sure the government doesn't like not having the level of access they do to banks, where governments basically have a wiretap of all ACH transfers flowing directly to them.
This does seem to be a liquidity problem at Goxx. However Dwolla probably aggravates this, they seems to be doing their own dirty tricks to their customers which might hold up funds going into and out of MtGox (as if simply stealthfully stealing money out of customer's accounts wasn't a dirty trick). In addition, MtGox has to spread and transfer it's government currencies between several different accounts - one person might deposit $10,000 into MtGox's bank account by wire transfer, and then another might want to withdraw $10,000 by Dwolla. You'd have to anticipate where the money is needed and transfer it strategically in advance; still with a disproportionate flow of funds, these internal transfers take time and continually use up liquidity.
MtGox can grab your money on the opposite site of money flow too - such as Dwolla money being transferred into MtGox and MtGox not making it available to you until you submit ID verification - your money is in MtGox's Dwolla account, but they have stolen it from you until you comply with their new policy. Note that ID verification is only forced on you when they can hold your money for ransom - a trick copied from Dwolla, the same trick that Dwolla has copied from the biggest evil of all, PayPal.
This does seem to be a liquidity problem at Goxx. However Dwolla probably aggravates this, they seems to be doing their own dirty tricks to their customers which might hold up funds going into and out of MtGox (as if simply stealthfully stealing money out of customer's accounts wasn't a dirty trick). In addition, MtGox has to spread and transfer it's government currencies between several different accounts - one person might deposit $10,000 into MtGox's bank account by wire transfer, and then another might want to withdraw $10,000 by Dwolla. You'd have to anticipate where the money is needed and transfer it strategically in advance; still with a disproportionate flow of funds, these internal transfers take time and continually use up liquidity.
MtGox can grab your money on the opposite site of money flow too - such as Dwolla money being transferred into MtGox and MtGox not making it available to you until you submit ID verification - your money is in MtGox's Dwolla account, but they have stolen it from you until you comply with their new policy. Note that ID verification is only forced on you when they can hold your money for ransom - a trick copied from Dwolla, the same trick that Dwolla has copied from the biggest evil of all, PayPal.
FUD?
just about everyone is having some sort of off the wall crazy issues with gox. im still trying to find out why i was reported to the police...
You were reported to the police??! What the hell for?
they suspected money laundering it seems. but there policy is they dont do it unless they have proof. so i have been trying to get them to give me info about this. i have no had time to respond to their last post hen they said they no longer think i am laundering money. proof must mean suspect in japan... there is a thread about it in the trade discussion, they stickied it i think.
Is that the one where they admitted they had screwed up (again)?
they did admit they screwed up, but it does not fit their policy on when they call the police on their customers... i just want to know why they keep saying their policy is only when they have proof when they clearly did not have it. i also have asked many times about information to clear my name but no response. it is almost lawyer time:(
Think on this.
How much does Mt Gox have tied up in "OPM" (other people's money)
If they had a significant amount of this and were investing (winning? losing? who knows?) in other schemes ....
Its like insurance ... tie up the claim as long as possible. When you have (think scale here) a LOT of funds tied up, you can make a lot off what you're investing while fighting the people you're meant to be paying. You still pay (eventually) but get to use the funds in the interim. Not a good long term business model. Note I said "long term"
Some insurance companies can have 100s of millions tied up ... day by day, that's a lot of money they're earning.
Even at market term deposit rates, 10m USD can earn a significant amount per day for the holders of the funds
FUD?
just about everyone is having some sort of off the wall crazy issues with gox. im still trying to find out why i was reported to the police...
You were reported to the police??! What the hell for?
they suspected money laundering it seems. but there policy is they dont do it unless they have proof. so i have been trying to get them to give me info about this. i have no had time to respond to their last post hen they said they no longer think i am laundering money. proof must mean suspect in japan... there is a thread about it in the trade discussion, they stickied it i think.
Is that the one where they admitted they had screwed up (again)?
FUD?
just about everyone is having some sort of off the wall crazy issues with gox. im still trying to find out why i was reported to the police...
You were reported to the police??! What the hell for?
Well, my Dwolla withdrawal processed today, magically after I rejected the request to cancel it. Took a bit over 3 weeks, NOT including the ~4 weeks the first failed withdrawal took to be canceled.
I'm basically free of MTGox now, and I will not be keeping any significant balance there ever again. I've had good luck with Bitfloor so far, so I can tentatively recommend it going forward.
I'm basically free of MTGox now, and I will not be keeping any significant balance there ever again. I've had good luck with Bitfloor so far, so I can tentatively recommend it going forward.
FUD?
Another day, another fail by MTGox. They are still holding $10,000 and now refuse to even give me a time frame as to when it might be processed. Though they helpfully stated that they would "let me know when it's processed." Gee thanks... like I wouldn't know from Dwolla and the fact that, you know, my balance in Dwolla increased.
Well as per my story above, MtGox let me know when my money was in their Bank account, but not yet credited to my trading account.
Will Dwolla do the same? Go on.. ask Dwolla support if the money is in *Dwolla's Bank account*. Let's see how they respond.
I find it stunning that you'd assume Dwolla is some sort of efficient, honest operation after the way they've treated various Bitcoin-related things.
Dwolla charge what.. 25c per transfer? If anyone is on a shoestring and doing the dodgy it's likely them.
Bet your 10K is busy earning Dwolla interest while they faff about with their AML reporting.
So I just got a request on my support ticket from MTGox:
This, after almost a month of them holding my money (for a second time). This is the second time they have tried/are canceling my large withdrawals. This is a nice solution for them, because I would then have to pay a 4th time to convert the funds, and they get to skim yet another .5% off the top of my initial $26,000 for the privilege of converting it, yet again, to BTC.
I would say that pretty much confirms that MTGox is out of money. They can't even handle $10,000 withdrawal.
I say this because if it were an AML thing and Dwolla was holding it, how would they be able to cancel it and "return" the money to me? If it was being held for AML, they wouldn't be able to return it. MTGox is the one "holding" it... and they are holding it because they can't pay it.
Quote
Would you like to have your withdrawal cancelled and return the funds to your Mt.Gox account so that you can withdraw via other methods?
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
This, after almost a month of them holding my money (for a second time). This is the second time they have tried/are canceling my large withdrawals. This is a nice solution for them, because I would then have to pay a 4th time to convert the funds, and they get to skim yet another .5% off the top of my initial $26,000 for the privilege of converting it, yet again, to BTC.
I would say that pretty much confirms that MTGox is out of money. They can't even handle $10,000 withdrawal.
I say this because if it were an AML thing and Dwolla was holding it, how would they be able to cancel it and "return" the money to me? If it was being held for AML, they wouldn't be able to return it. MTGox is the one "holding" it... and they are holding it because they can't pay it.
I don't see how you can make the claim that they couldn't cancel it.
I used an international wire transfer to send a few thousand dollars to mtgox a while back - and it arrived in their account in JPY - but I had selected in my Banking interface to send as USD.
Mtgox warned me that it had arrived in JPY and asked me whether I wanted it deposited in my mtgox JPY wallet or converted to USD at a fee.
I wasn't pleased about the multiple international conversion fees I would be charged - so mtgox suggested I ask my bank to cancel the transfer and rewire it with an explicit instruction to send in USD and not convert.
ie - the funds had actually arrived in their account, yet I was still able to cancel and resend so that it arrived to them as USD.
This ended up taking a few extra days rather than the usual 24-72 hrs.
I don't think any of this time was due to mtgox - it was all the manual processing involved between the various banks.
It seems entirely plausible to me that your money is in the hands of Dwolla awaiting their processing of whatever their AML policies are - and also quite a reasonable suggestion from mtgox that you authorise them to request their bank to put in a cancellation of the transfer from their end.
p.s I think various banks charge fees to cancel/amend international wire transfer requests. In the case where the mistake was made by your bank or intermediary bank and arrives in wrong currency - then presumably you wouldn't be charged.. but I'm not sure about cancellations. Still - 'failure to arrive in beneficiary's account in a reasonable time frame' might be a good reason.
It strikes me that you should be asking DWOLLA where the money is anyway.
So I just got a request on my support ticket from MTGox:
This, after almost a month of them holding my money (for a second time). This is the second time they have tried/are canceling my large withdrawals. This is a nice solution for them, because I would then have to pay a 4th time to convert the funds, and they get to skim yet another .5% off the top of my initial $26,000 for the privilege of converting it, yet again, to BTC.
I would say that pretty much confirms that MTGox is out of money. They can't even handle $10,000 withdrawal.
I say this because if it were an AML thing and Dwolla was holding it, how would they be able to cancel it and "return" the money to me? If it was being held for AML, they wouldn't be able to return it. MTGox is the one "holding" it... and they are holding it because they can't pay it.
Quote
Would you like to have your withdrawal cancelled and return the funds to your Mt.Gox account so that you can withdraw via other methods?
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
Thanks,
MtGox.com Team
This, after almost a month of them holding my money (for a second time). This is the second time they have tried/are canceling my large withdrawals. This is a nice solution for them, because I would then have to pay a 4th time to convert the funds, and they get to skim yet another .5% off the top of my initial $26,000 for the privilege of converting it, yet again, to BTC.
I would say that pretty much confirms that MTGox is out of money. They can't even handle $10,000 withdrawal.
I say this because if it were an AML thing and Dwolla was holding it, how would they be able to cancel it and "return" the money to me? If it was being held for AML, they wouldn't be able to return it. MTGox is the one "holding" it... and they are holding it because they can't pay it.
Another day, another MTGox fail. I'm sure it'll all come through tomorrow, right? Right?
subbing
Another day, another MTGox fail. I'm sure it'll all come through tomorrow, right? Right?
Sorry Casascius, I don't have access to the funds in any way, shape or form. They are being held by MTGox without any recourse, explanation or estimate of when they will release them. They have basically stolen $10,000.
dat delicious interestAlso, why did reeses delete their post?
Sorry Casascius, I don't have access to the funds in any way, shape or form. They are being held by MTGox without any recourse, explanation or estimate of when they will release them. They have basically stolen $10,000.
I currently have a little over $100 on MtGox. After completely verifying my account on both MtGox and Dwolla (Drivers license, SSN, etc.) I sent $5 from MtGox-->Dwolla to see if it would pass through before I send $100. Thankfully I read this (and other) threads before sending everything through. Would hate to have a hundred tied up. Can't imagine having thousands tied up for nearly a month with bullshit excuses. So if two weeks goes by, and it's still not going through, I'm withdrawing all my coins before MtGox crashes.
Although some good news and sorta off subject: verifying my account with MtGox was rather painless and done in a day or so. Dwolla took four days. Sent all the stuff in Monday, waited, then called them up Friday (yesterday) and they fixed it right on the phone within a minute.
Although some good news and sorta off subject: verifying my account with MtGox was rather painless and done in a day or so. Dwolla took four days. Sent all the stuff in Monday, waited, then called them up Friday (yesterday) and they fixed it right on the phone within a minute.
Are you able to buy and withdraw the BTC? I'd buy a chunk of it off you, at least a fourth of it ($2500 worth) and pay by USD wire transfer.
Another day passes and MTGox still holds my $10,000 without recourse.
Gonna hit a month, soon.
Gonna hit a month, soon.
keep us updated, i wonder how long it will take gox to fix this...
^this, interested to hear their allegations
I forgot that he openly posted that on the forum :/
I only remembered it because it being discussed in an open forum was a WTF moment and you asking to cancel the wire transfers and remove your money by another means made your behaviour look even more suspicious.
Still nothing from MTGox. Weak.
At least they have not called the police on you.. yet...
Financial institutions, and their current and former directors, officers, employees, agents, and contractors, are prohibited from disclosing SARs, or any information that would reveal the existence of a SAR.
Gox told me when I was being reported to the police :/
I have trouble believing anything you say.
While Japan supposedly criminalises "tipping off" under its AML/CFT provisions, Mark did post this openly. Whether it would count as "tipping off" is up for debate I guess as he refers to "law enforcement" rather than JAFIC specifically or the filing of a STR (you'd think nations would standardise the terminology for these reports).
Quote from: MagicalTux
Something you seem to not understand is that this is already a law enforcement matter. Your actions may be against the laws in most countries (at least Japan and USA) and threats are not helping much.
Anyway we reach a conclusion on the current investigation (which you can help by providing documentation explaining your multiple identities) not much can be done.
Anyway we reach a conclusion on the current investigation (which you can help by providing documentation explaining your multiple identities) not much can be done.
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.872685
I'm not defending Goat. What happened was exactly the kind of activity which should trigger further investigation, but just because organisations are not supposed to make customers aware of reports to AML regulators and/or financial intelligence units doesn't mean it never happens.
Still nothing from MTGox. Weak.
At least they have not called the police on you.. yet...
Financial institutions, and their current and former directors, officers, employees, agents, and contractors, are prohibited from disclosing SARs, or any information that would reveal the existence of a SAR.
Gox told me when I was being reported to the police :/
I have trouble believing anything you say.
Still nothing from MTGox. Weak.
At least they have not called the police on you.. yet...
Financial institutions, and their current and former directors, officers, employees, agents, and contractors, are prohibited from disclosing SARs, or any information that would reveal the existence of a SAR.
inb4 mem starts bitching to Inaba like an idiot
Except, if I contact BFL and ask for my money back, they will give it to me, free of charge.
MTGox, if they consented to give it to me at all (which is dubious at best), would charge me at least half a percent for the privilege... so yeah, nothing like BFL really.
MTGox, if they consented to give it to me at all (which is dubious at best), would charge me at least half a percent for the privilege... so yeah, nothing like BFL really.
Again, that's fine .. but I'm not being given a choice in this matter. MTGox tells me they will do X, they fail to do X. Repeatedly. It's not a one time mistake, that's my point.
This sound just like BFL. Very interesting.
We could just change out MT GOX and replace it with BFL.
Again, that's fine .. but I'm not being given a choice in this matter. BFL tells me they will do X, they fail to do X. Repeatedly. It's not a one time mistake, that's my point.
Another day, another fail by MTGox. They are still holding $10,000 and now refuse to even give me a time frame as to when it might be processed. Though they helpfully stated that they would "let me know when it's processed." Gee thanks... like I wouldn't know from Dwolla and the fact that, you know, my balance in Dwolla increased.
Run by Roman Shtylman https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/shtylman-37090 who resides in NY.
Replies to emails immediately, excellent customer service. Bitfloor also has the best matching order matching engine in existence.
Yeah as far as I know, he is the only exchange that runs an engine that uses FIX as well as REST for the API. Also offers liquidity rebates. Replies to emails immediately, excellent customer service. Bitfloor also has the best matching order matching engine in existence.
Run by Roman Shtylman https://bitcointalksearch.org/user/shtylman-37090 who resides in NY.
Replies to emails immediately, excellent customer service. Bitfloor also has the best matching order matching engine in existence.
Replies to emails immediately, excellent customer service. Bitfloor also has the best matching order matching engine in existence.
Yeah, I've moved all of my operations over to Bitfloor at this point. I'm done with MTGox. As soon (or even IF) I can get my last $10,752 bucks out of MTGox, I'll not be trading there again.
Been very happy with my experiences with Bitfloor. Seems like a good operation.
Wait what? It's not blue or orange!
Naw, it's a New Orleans hat, which I just like the hat cause of the material and fit, not necessarily the fact that it says New Orleans. I have a hard time finding hats that fit my head properly, sadly.
Naw, it's a New Orleans hat, which I just like the hat cause of the material and fit, not necessarily the fact that it says New Orleans. I have a hard time finding hats that fit my head properly, sadly.
Yeah, I've moved all of my operations over to Bitfloor at this point. I'm done with MTGox. As soon (or even IF) I can get my last $10,752 bucks out of MTGox, I'll not be trading there again.
I'm sure that's coming... b& and v& because I have the temerity to bitch about abysmal customer service and lies.
Still nothing from MTGox. Weak.
interesting
3 weeks wait seems a bit extreme...
The most amazing pieces of federal software that I've seen are the sections of IRS forensic accounting systems that catch anomalies. (Not that the feds are known for programming prowess, but when it comes to taxes, they seem to take it more seriously.)
Credit providers run pretty sophisticated software, too. It's simultaneously looking for fraud, assessing customer risk in real time, trying to detect money laundering and terrorism financing, looking for indicators of tax evasion and a bunch of other things.
I remember being told years ago that tax department auditors could estimate income to within a few hundred dollars based on lifestyle alone. I expect that technology and powerful software makes that possible on a larger scale than ever before.
It's important for people to remember that as a general rule transactions of $10,000 and over are not illegal per se. In the vast majority of cases they'll just be automatically reported and there'll be no further investigation unless some additional factor identifies the transaction/s as "suspicious". Even when a transaction is flagged, it will often be determined to be legitimate through the most basic of investigations and there'll be no need to report it as "suspicious" to FinSEC/AUSTRAC or whomever.
Again, that's fine .. but I'm not being given a choice in this matter. MTGox tells me they will do X, they fail to do X. Repeatedly. It's not a one time mistake, that's my point.
I was explicitly told by MTGox support that Dwolla withdrawals are now 6 business days (this was AFTER the first failed attempt that took 2+ weeks that ended up with them canceling the withdrawal, leaving the money "stuck" in MTGox). Now it's almost 3 weeks later and the money still hasn't processed through Dwolla. I reconfirmed numerous times in the support ticket that it would take 6 business days, so there was no ambiguity or miscommunication. It was simply outright lying on MTGox's part.
I was explicitly told by MTGox support that Dwolla withdrawals are now 6 business days (this was AFTER the first failed attempt that took 2+ weeks that ended up with them canceling the withdrawal, leaving the money "stuck" in MTGox). Now it's almost 3 weeks later and the money still hasn't processed through Dwolla. I reconfirmed numerous times in the support ticket that it would take 6 business days, so there was no ambiguity or miscommunication. It was simply outright lying on MTGox's part.
Whatever the rules are is fine as far as that goes and is for another discussion. The problem for me is that:
A) MTGox did not mention any sort of arbitrary dollar limitation
B) Assured me repeatedly that Dwolla deposit time was 6 business days, knowing full well exactly how much I wished to withdrawal. So even if those rules were in place, they lied in the original support ticket about the time.
Again, this just smacks of insolvency problems and them being unable to handle even modest withdrawals in a timely fashion.
A) MTGox did not mention any sort of arbitrary dollar limitation
B) Assured me repeatedly that Dwolla deposit time was 6 business days, knowing full well exactly how much I wished to withdrawal. So even if those rules were in place, they lied in the original support ticket about the time.
Again, this just smacks of insolvency problems and them being unable to handle even modest withdrawals in a timely fashion.
watching...
CBP in the US has been less than helpful about the "over $10k" rule. The customs declaration form clearly asks if you're bringing more than $10,000 or equivalent amounts of currency, but the instructions include $10k in the range. Since the people enforcing this are not "interpreters", bringing in $10k can be problematic. It also covers "a short period of time" so $3k + $10k may be considered $13k, which will cause your bank to initiate a notification to the IRS as well.
Whether MT Gox → Dwolla → You is considered importation of currency is another matter. I suspect a number of people are being "cautious" and creating a SNAFU.
Whether MT Gox → Dwolla → You is considered importation of currency is another matter. I suspect a number of people are being "cautious" and creating a SNAFU.
The realistic interpretation of >$10k for the purpose of CBP is pretty loose, and probably for a good (to them) reason.
The fact that (10000.00 > 10000.00 == false) and (10000.01 > 10000.00 == true) isn't something they care about nor are they about to. I would guess that somebody pointing that out would raise their suspicion. For them, the definition of >10k means "anything that looks like it might be around or over 10k, especially when combined with other transactions going the same way." So even an amount of 8000.00 while knowing there was another 3000.00 done recently would definitely fit the bill for ">$10k" from an AML perspective.
Now, in hindsight, I have (from last year) a bunch (maybe six or seven) of ACH withdrawals via Dwolla for 9999.75 - that is, $10000 (my limit) minus their 0.25 fee. Now I am bothered by the thought that I might have tripped some red flag somewhere - the "this person thinks he will stay under the radar by repeatedly transacting just barely under 10000 so he MUST be up to something suspicious let's go kick down his doors" radar, and that it will bring me unwarranted attention.
I see how.. completed doesnt mean completed.. completed means processed.. ohhh wait
Quote
All dwolla transfers are processed in a fully automated way by our servers, and the support staff has no way to push for a specific transfer to be operated at a given time. Dwolla transfer status are:
Preparing: system is running checks to see if the transfer can be executed
Confirmed: Transfer can be executed and is pending in queue
Todo: Transfer is near the top of the queue and will be executed soon
Processed: Transfer has been processed
Current observed delay with Dwolla withdraws is 6~7 days. As soon as we clarify our situation with Dwolla (they know what we do and we are working with them toward obtaining the "written consent") and know for sure our account with them will continue existing, we will be keeping funds with Dwolla again.
Preparing: system is running checks to see if the transfer can be executed
Confirmed: Transfer can be executed and is pending in queue
Todo: Transfer is near the top of the queue and will be executed soon
Processed: Transfer has been processed
Current observed delay with Dwolla withdraws is 6~7 days. As soon as we clarify our situation with Dwolla (they know what we do and we are working with them toward obtaining the "written consent") and know for sure our account with them will continue existing, we will be keeping funds with Dwolla again.
I find this exceptionally hard to believe, since magically my withdrawals go through AFTER contacting support with regards to the issue. They sit in todo status forever otherwise.
Additionally, the claim of 6 - 7 days is utter BS. Like I said, 6 BUSINESS days (not even calendar days, which is approaching 18+ now) have come and gone two times over, yet my transaction has been in todo the entire time. So, once again, it's just lies and falsehoods. I just hope I get the last of my funds out before the inevitable collapse of the house of cards that MTGox has built.
As an update: Still no money! Surprise!
I think it helps if you break down your withdrawals to amounts below $5000. (or below $10,000.)
Not necessarily. It depends how sophisticated the software being used to detect suspicious activity is. Really massive financial institutions can flag quite complex series of transactions which are aimed at avoiding the reporting threshold and/or disguising the origin/destination of funds. The type of pattern which caused the system to flag would determine what investigations you made and those investigations would determine the nature of your report.
I think it helps if you break down your withdrawals to amounts below $5000. (or below $10,000.)
Interesting...
CBP in the US has been less than helpful about the "over $10k" rule. The customs declaration form clearly asks if you're bringing more than $10,000 or equivalent amounts of currency, but the instructions include $10k in the range. Since the people enforcing this are not "interpreters", bringing in $10k can be problematic. It also covers "a short period of time" so $3k + $10k may be considered $13k, which will cause your bank to initiate a notification to the IRS as well.
Whether MT Gox → Dwolla → You is considered importation of currency is another matter. I suspect a number of people are being "cautious" and creating a SNAFU.
Whether MT Gox → Dwolla → You is considered importation of currency is another matter. I suspect a number of people are being "cautious" and creating a SNAFU.
The $10,000 limit often applies in the originating country as well as the receiving country and the mandatory reports at both ends may need to identify the origin of the funds being sent/received. There are many things which can make transactions reportable apart from the arbitrary limit of $10,000 and keeping individual transactions under that limit doesn't guarantee that they're not required to be reported.
Watching.
Let's say all exchanges are shut down. What happens to Bitcoin?
That is Bitcoins end game, it becomes so universal and liquid that no one wants to bother with fiat.
In the absence of MtGox, there's a credible argument that $5 is the floor...
@fuzzy: there are other ways of using bitcoin besides swapping for fiat.
That's exactly my point.
Just clarifying about Dwolla, as you may all know things are changing at Dwolla, there are new conditions and we are still pending approval from Dwolla to operate with them, since it seems that now a written consent from Dwolla is required (as per their new conditions).
In the meantime we operate on Dwolla at lower speed and put more priority to keep being able to keep them as a funding and withdraw method.
All dwolla transfers are processed in a fully automated way by our servers, and the support staff has no way to push for a specific transfer to be operated at a given time. Dwolla transfer status are:
In the meantime we operate on Dwolla at lower speed and put more priority to keep being able to keep them as a funding and withdraw method.
All dwolla transfers are processed in a fully automated way by our servers, and the support staff has no way to push for a specific transfer to be operated at a given time. Dwolla transfer status are:
- Preparing: system is running checks to see if the transfer can be executed
- Confirmed: Transfer can be executed and is pending in queue
- Todo: Transfer is near the top of the queue and will be executed soon
- Processed: Transfer has been processed
sr. member
Activity: 266
Merit: 250
The king and the pawn go in the same box @ endgame
Let's say all exchanges are shut down. What happens to Bitcoin?
That is Bitcoins end game, it becomes so universal and liquid that no one wants to bother with fiat.
In the absence of MtGox, there's a credible argument that $5 is the floor...
I would concur
@fuzzy: there are other ways of using bitcoin besides swapping for fiat.
Let's say all exchanges are shut down. What happens to Bitcoin?
That is Bitcoins end game, it becomes so universal and liquid that no one wants to bother with fiat.
In the absence of MtGox, there's a credible argument that $5 is the floor...
Let's say all exchanges are shut down. What happens to Bitcoin?
That is Bitcoins end game, it becomes so universal and liquid that no one wants to bother with fiat.
You do have to wonder how it is possible to continue existence when costs are so high. I doubt the various trading fees are enough to be sustainable. As for costs, I heard some numbers a while back that were amazing - $10k/month just for DDoS protection? And who knows when it comes to the rest of the infrastructure.
I dug around I'm my old IRC logs, but was unable to find another bit of information that I am sure I remember hearing - specifically that all employee salaries for this year had been set aside already before the beginning of the year. I don't remember whether that set aside amount included infrastructure costs though.
I dug around I'm my old IRC logs, but was unable to find another bit of information that I am sure I remember hearing - specifically that all employee salaries for this year had been set aside already before the beginning of the year. I don't remember whether that set aside amount included infrastructure costs though.
Now the real questions that should arise from reading this: Who's going to develop a completely self sufficient and decentralized exchange?
We have the currency, awesome. With the two major exchanges taking hits like this left and right (well I guess in Bitcoinica's case it was more like a punch to the groin), Bitcoin cannot remain at a stable price. OTC and p2p transactions simply cannot provide enough volume.
Let's say all exchanges are shut down. What happens to Bitcoin?
We have the currency, awesome. With the two major exchanges taking hits like this left and right (well I guess in Bitcoinica's case it was more like a punch to the groin), Bitcoin cannot remain at a stable price. OTC and p2p transactions simply cannot provide enough volume.
Let's say all exchanges are shut down. What happens to Bitcoin?
I cringe when I read such things.
So, I tried to get the rest of my money out of MTGOX since my last thread on the subject. I did this in two withdrawals of $3000 and $10,000. I was assured at the time it would take 6 business days. Well, 6 business days came and went two times over, and no money. So I sent another support ticket to see what kind of lies and bullshit they would feed me this time, and it was a real gem:
First, I asked (nay, demanded) that they cancel the Dwolla deposits, since they clearly have no intention of honoring them, but gave them the option of sending me the funds either via wire or courier (at their expense). I reiterated this several times over and here is the response I got:
Of course, the $3000 credited only AFTER I had sent the message to support. I'm sure it would have never credited if I never sent a message to support.
So I responded with this:
Once again, pointing out that it's been over two weeks AND it was not over $10,000.
Ooops! MTGox, caught in another lie, so here's the back pedal:
So now it's "$10,000 and over" ... of course, there was no mention of this at the time of withdrawal or during my previous conversation with support over the botched withdrawal last time. Of course, no mention of the fact that it's been over two weeks anyway, so even if there was some arbitrary $10,000 limit, the timeframe has expired.
I'm sure I'll get some bullshit response to my follow up messages pointing out the fact that it's been more than two weeks and that there is no mention of some arbitrary limit.
This is why you should not use MTGox. They are lying, they continue to lie and have absolutely no regard for customer service. They remind me very much of some of the shadier customer service centers from the late 90's and early 2000's where the mantra was "Tell the customer anything to get them off the line." It doesn't matter if it's true or not, just tell them whatever so they shut up and we can continue to rob them.
MTGox is exceptionally dishonest and untrustworthy in the extreme. Anyone doing business with them is eventually going to wind up burned (again). I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of convenient security breach or hack that somehow manages to drain user accounts when there's a major problem or the insolvency of Gox actually starts things crashing down. All the signs are there, the secretiveness, the lies and stall tactics, etc... all major indicators of internal problems that they do not want the public to know. Just take it as a warning.
First, I asked (nay, demanded) that they cancel the Dwolla deposits, since they clearly have no intention of honoring them, but gave them the option of sending me the funds either via wire or courier (at their expense). I reiterated this several times over and here is the response I got:
Quote
We see that your 3,000 USD withdrawal has been processed and should now be in your account. As for your 10,000 USD withdrawal, please be advised that withdrawals over 10,000 USD take at least 2 weeks to complete. Thank you for your patience in the process.
Of course, the $3000 credited only AFTER I had sent the message to support. I'm sure it would have never credited if I never sent a message to support.
So I responded with this:
Quote
A) It's been more than two weeks
B) It's not over $10,000, so it doesn't apply.
You apparently failed to read the paragraph I asked you to re-read until you understood it. Please read it again.
I expect a certified check or courier tomorrow, June 6th. I am tired of the lying.
B) It's not over $10,000, so it doesn't apply.
You apparently failed to read the paragraph I asked you to re-read until you understood it. Please read it again.
I expect a certified check or courier tomorrow, June 6th. I am tired of the lying.
Once again, pointing out that it's been over two weeks AND it was not over $10,000.
Ooops! MTGox, caught in another lie, so here's the back pedal:
Quote
Unfortunately, we regret to inform you that as we are not located in the US, we are unable to send funds via courier. The 2 weeks + interval applies to withdrawals of at least 10,000 USD and over that amount. Thank you for your patience in the process.
So now it's "$10,000 and over" ... of course, there was no mention of this at the time of withdrawal or during my previous conversation with support over the botched withdrawal last time. Of course, no mention of the fact that it's been over two weeks anyway, so even if there was some arbitrary $10,000 limit, the timeframe has expired.
I'm sure I'll get some bullshit response to my follow up messages pointing out the fact that it's been more than two weeks and that there is no mention of some arbitrary limit.
This is why you should not use MTGox. They are lying, they continue to lie and have absolutely no regard for customer service. They remind me very much of some of the shadier customer service centers from the late 90's and early 2000's where the mantra was "Tell the customer anything to get them off the line." It doesn't matter if it's true or not, just tell them whatever so they shut up and we can continue to rob them.
MTGox is exceptionally dishonest and untrustworthy in the extreme. Anyone doing business with them is eventually going to wind up burned (again). I wouldn't be surprised to see some sort of convenient security breach or hack that somehow manages to drain user accounts when there's a major problem or the insolvency of Gox actually starts things crashing down. All the signs are there, the secretiveness, the lies and stall tactics, etc... all major indicators of internal problems that they do not want the public to know. Just take it as a warning.
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