MTGox is apparently out of money... | Bitcointalksearch.org

Phinnaeus Gage

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Quote from: Phinnaeus Gage on January 22, 2013, 10:37:14 PM

Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:09:52 AM

So I initiated a $4000 MTGox Dwolla withdrawal over ten days ago... I sent in two support tickets and they finally got back to me tonight, here's what the response was.

Quote

Gene, Jan 22 13:06 (JST):

Hello Josh,

The transaction is still in process and the transaction has not been processed due to insufficient funds in our account.We will retry and update you once processed.We appreciate your patience.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Huh... MTGox can't even afford a $4000 withdrawal after 10+ days. This does not bode well.

Looks like Josh is going to buy something for himself, for I don't believe his title description at BFL includes handling everyday expenditures.

I think my thread was out of line, now realizing that the request was for $4K USD and not 4K BTC. My apologies, for I truly misread the amount. No BS!

~Bruno K~

Third Way

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I wish I had enough BTC to have trouble turning them into FIAT cash. Sad

sbrzol

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Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:09:52 AM

So I initiated a $4000 MTGox Dwolla withdrawal over ten days ago... I sent in two support tickets and they finally got back to me tonight, here's what the response was.

Quote

Gene, Jan 22 13:06 (JST):

Hello Josh,

The transaction is still in process and the transaction has not been processed due to insufficient funds in our account.We will retry and update you once processed.We appreciate your patience.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Huh... MTGox can't even afford a $4000 withdrawal after 10+ days. This does not bode well.

i asked for withdrawal(EUR) on january 10th (bank transfer), live chat said my transaction still queued yesterday

verifying me took 27 (11 working) days for mtgox

so after 42 days (from December 13th) i still cannot get my money from mtgox
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/mtgox-verifyingpayout-138528

michaelmclees

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Quote from: becoin on January 24, 2013, 03:50:59 AM

Quote from: michaelmclees on January 23, 2013, 09:22:46 PM

First, it is said that more Bitcoins were bought than sold

Prove it! Where did I said that?

Where did I say that you said it?

becoin

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Quote from: michaelmclees on January 23, 2013, 09:22:46 PM

First, it is said that more Bitcoins were bought than sold

Prove it! Where did I said that?

notme

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Quote from: becoin on January 23, 2013, 03:50:21 PM

Quote from: notme on January 23, 2013, 03:36:06 PM

No. If I buy a coin that nobody sold, where did it come from?

Did I say that nobody sold you this coin?
What I do say is that more people are buying bitcoins than those selling bitcoins! That does not mean that everybody that wanted to buy bitcoins have succeeded in buying! The price moved up to balance the supply/demand equation! Why is so hard for you to understand something quite obvious?

When you claimed Luno's statement was false. Let me quote it again since you decided to trim it out:

Quote from: becoin on January 23, 2013, 09:08:03 AM

Quote from: Luno on January 23, 2013, 07:57:44 AM

For every coin bought, somone has to sell it, so it's always the same amount bought and sold.

This is both true and false because this statement is missing a very important aspect. Time variable is missing! What you've explained is not a static equilibrium. The balance is dynamically achieved in time. This is why the exchange rate is moving up and down. At a given point in time more ppl wanted to buy than those that wanted to sell. This is why the exchange rate moved up to balance this increased demand. Because market moved up some of the buy orders below the market level remained unfulfilled. So, yes. There is absolutely nothing wrong to say there are more people buying than selling bitcoins if bitcoin price is going up!

Why is it so hard for you to have an intelligent exchange of ideas without implying the other party has mental deficiencies? Perhaps you should consider that although we are using the same language, that very language is full of ambiguity and local terminology that doesn't match universally? Maybe if you took more time to explain yourself and didn't overlook important details just to find something to argue against you may have better luck helping us idiots out here understand the obvious.

You turned a simple statement about bitcoins bought = bitcoins sold into an entire page arguing about the number of individuals on each side of the market, which is unknowable. Good job.

michaelmclees

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Quote from: becoin on January 23, 2013, 08:15:44 PM

Quote from: michaelmclees on January 23, 2013, 07:41:40 PM

If it is so obvious and the fact is not even in question, you'll easily be able to answer this.

Of course. It is very easy indeed. If couple of days ago bitcoin price was $16 and today is $17 that means throughout all that period for every 100 sellers there were approximately 106 buyers. The market as a system needed to move from $16 to $17 to find its equilibrium.

I can't prove that but it is obvious that you've sold your bitcoins at a much lower price than current level. This is why you're just furious on people saying the obvious that demand for bitcoins is greater than supply!

That is very illogical. First, it is said that more Bitcoins were bought than sold, which is asinine because the number bought and sold will always be equal. Then you come in and say, well... there are more buyers than sellers then. As stated before, it could have been a single large buyer buying all the coins sold by 10,000 different sellers. I've not bought or sold Bitcoins recently at all, so I don't get why you think I'm furious that I sold too early.

Learn demand and supply.

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Quote from: HDSolar on January 22, 2013, 04:11:13 PM

Not sure if anyone cares but bitfloor is doing just fine, a little slow on payouts but getting my money with no issue. Grin

BitFloor is not without problems. There were significant delays in withdrawals and there still are irregularities.

Having said that, when I need information I have consistently better success rate getting meaningful answers from Roman than from MtGox folks.

becoin

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Quote from: michaelmclees on January 23, 2013, 07:41:40 PM

If it is so obvious and the fact is not even in question, you'll easily be able to answer this.

Of course. It is very easy indeed. If couple of days ago bitcoin price was $16 and today is $17 that means throughout all that period for every 100 sellers there were approximately 106 buyers. The market as a system needed to move from $16 to $17 to find its equilibrium.

I can't prove that but it is obvious that you've sold your bitcoins at a much lower price than current level. This is why you're just furious on people saying the obvious that demand for bitcoins is greater than supply!

michaelmclees

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Quote from: becoin on January 23, 2013, 07:19:34 PM

Quote from: michaelmclees on January 23, 2013, 06:06:10 PM

Because while it may appear obvious to you that more people are buying than selling, that may not be the case in fact.

Oh, it is the fact. No doubt about that.
Market doesn't care if it is a single person buying 10000 bitcoins or 1000 persons buying 10 bitcoins each. From market point of view there is no difference whatsoever. For instance, that 1 person buying 10000 bitcoins might be a hedge fund manager that represents 1000 shareholders.

Prove it. How many buyers were there today? How many sellers? If it is so obvious and the fact is not even in question, you'll easily be able to answer this.

becoin

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Quote from: michaelmclees on January 23, 2013, 06:06:10 PM

Because while it may appear obvious to you that more people are buying than selling, that may not be the case in fact.

Oh, it is the fact. No doubt about that.
Market doesn't care if it is a single person buying 10000 bitcoins or 1000 persons buying 10 bitcoins each. From market point of view there is no difference whatsoever. For instance, that 1 person buying 10000 bitcoins might be a hedge fund manager that represents 1000 shareholders.

michaelmclees

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Quote from: becoin on January 23, 2013, 03:50:21 PM

Quote from: notme on January 23, 2013, 03:36:06 PM

No. If I buy a coin that nobody sold, where did it come from?

Did I say that nobody sold you this coin?
What I do say is that more people are buying bitcoins than those selling bitcoins! That does not mean that everybody that wanted to buy bitcoins have succeeded in buying! The price moved up to balance the supply/demand equation! Why is so hard for you to understand something quite obvious?

Because while it may appear obvious to you that more people are buying than selling, that may not be the case in fact. The market could be comprised of 1 buyer and 10,000 sellers, or vice versa, and the charts might look exactly the same in either case to what we've seen recently. You, quite simply, either do not know what you're talking about, or are unable to express yourself properly.

becoin

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Quote from: notme on January 23, 2013, 03:36:06 PM

No. If I buy a coin that nobody sold, where did it come from?

Did I say that nobody sold you this coin?
What I do say is that more people are buying bitcoins than those selling bitcoins! That does not mean that everybody that wanted to buy bitcoins have succeeded in buying! The price moved up to balance the supply/demand equation! Why is so hard for you to understand something quite obvious?

notme

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Quote from: becoin on January 23, 2013, 09:08:03 AM

Quote from: Luno on January 23, 2013, 07:57:44 AM

For every coin bought, somone has to sell it, so it's always the same amount bought and sold.

This is both true and false because this statement is missing a very important aspect. Time variable is missing! What you've explained is not a static equilibrium. The balance is dynamically achieved in time. This is why the exchange rate is moving up and down. At a given point in time more ppl wanted to buy than those that wanted to sell. This is why the exchange rate moved up to balance this increased demand. Because market moved up some of the buy orders below the market level remained unfulfilled. So, yes. There is absolutely nothing wrong to say there are more people buying than selling bitcoins if bitcoin price is going up!

No. If I buy a coin that nobody sold, where did it come from?

becoin

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Quote from: DobZombie on January 23, 2013, 09:36:37 AM

Quote from: misterbigg on January 22, 2013, 09:05:26 PM

Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:09:52 AM

Huh... MTGox can't even afford a $4000 withdrawal after 10+ days. This does not bode well.

Can we please change the title of this thread to something that isn't totally misleading?

Why?

Because these are the same arguments that gmaxwell used to change the title and later lock this thread:
https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/wow-becoin-failed-to-read-and-comprehend-bfls-policy-on-btc-refunds-137026
Do we see a double standard here, gmaxwell?

Fiyasko

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Okey Dokey Lokey

Quote from: becoin on January 23, 2013, 07:47:38 AM

Quote from: lucif on January 23, 2013, 07:34:18 AM

Becoin: remove that bug from avatar pls, I try to kill it each time I see it on monitor....

It's there for a purpose!

Yeah, Well Many, Many people are slapping "Ignore" on you just because of your avatar, im finally going to join them since you dont seem to feel like changing it.
Give and you shall recieve I supposed, he gives a nuisance, we recieve it, then give him an ignore, and recieve the removal of the nuisance

DobZombie

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Quote from: misterbigg on January 22, 2013, 09:05:26 PM

Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:09:52 AM

Huh... MTGox can't even afford a $4000 withdrawal after 10+ days. This does not bode well.

Can we please change the title of this thread to something that isn't totally misleading?

Why?

These are the exact signs we saw just before CryptoXChange died.

I'm concerned about having some BTCBTC in GOX now...

becoin

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Quote from: Luno on January 23, 2013, 07:57:44 AM

For every coin bought, somone has to sell it, so it's always the same amount bought and sold.

This is both true and false because this statement is missing a very important aspect. Time variable is missing! What you've explained is not a static equilibrium. The balance is dynamically achieved in time. This is why the exchange rate is moving up and down. At a given point in time more ppl wanted to buy than those that wanted to sell. This is why the exchange rate moved up to balance this increased demand. Because market moved up some of the buy orders below the market level remained unfulfilled. So, yes. There is absolutely nothing wrong to say there are more people buying than selling bitcoins if bitcoin price is going up!

Luno

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Quote from: becoin on January 23, 2013, 06:48:45 AM

Quote from: danieldaniel on January 22, 2013, 06:32:31 PM

Quote from: michaelmclees on January 22, 2013, 06:24:23 PM

Quote from: becoin on January 22, 2013, 05:44:19 PM

Quote from: Bogart on January 22, 2013, 03:34:31 PM

With BTC value behaving like it is, I'll bet there's a lot of ppl doing the same thing right now (selling for fiat).

Your bet is wrong. Again. There are much more ppl buying bitcoins than ppl selling bitcoins. This is why bitcoin price is going up, not down!

Were more hot dogs bought or sold in New York today? Think carefully...

Hah! I get it.

Huh! I don't get it. You don't measure the price of a currency with food. You measure the price of a currency with another currency. This is called exchange rate.

For every coin bought, somone has to sell it, so it's always the same amount bought and sold.! However the hotdog analogy was wrong, as the statement was "More people buying than selling" which means more small bids compared to larger fewer asks. which does'nt conflict with the first statement about every coin sold is also bought.

So the analogy should be "Are more hotdogs sold in batches today"

becoin

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Quote from: lucif on January 23, 2013, 07:34:18 AM

Becoin: remove that bug from avatar pls, I try to kill it each time I see it on monitor....

It's there for a purpose!

lucif

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Becoin: remove that bug from avatar pls, I try to kill it each time I see it on monitor....

becoin

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Quote from: danieldaniel on January 22, 2013, 06:32:31 PM

Quote from: michaelmclees on January 22, 2013, 06:24:23 PM

Quote from: becoin on January 22, 2013, 05:44:19 PM

Quote from: Bogart on January 22, 2013, 03:34:31 PM

With BTC value behaving like it is, I'll bet there's a lot of ppl doing the same thing right now (selling for fiat).

Your bet is wrong. Again. There are much more ppl buying bitcoins than ppl selling bitcoins. This is why bitcoin price is going up, not down!

Were more hot dogs bought or sold in New York today? Think carefully...

Hah! I get it.

Huh! I don't get it. You don't measure the price of a currency with food. You measure the price of a currency with another currency. This is called exchange rate.

Phinnaeus Gage

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Bitcoin: An Idea Worth Spending

Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:09:52 AM

So I initiated a $4000 MTGox Dwolla withdrawal over ten days ago... I sent in two support tickets and they finally got back to me tonight, here's what the response was.

Quote

Gene, Jan 22 13:06 (JST):

Hello Josh,

The transaction is still in process and the transaction has not been processed due to insufficient funds in our account.We will retry and update you once processed.We appreciate your patience.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Huh... MTGox can't even afford a $4000 withdrawal after 10+ days. This does not bode well.

Looks like Josh is going to buy something for himself, for I don't believe his title description at BFL includes handling everyday expenditures.

misterbigg

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Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:09:52 AM

Huh... MTGox can't even afford a $4000 withdrawal after 10+ days. This does not bode well.

Can we please change the title of this thread to something that isn't totally misleading?

danieldaniel

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Quote from: michaelmclees on January 22, 2013, 06:24:23 PM

Quote from: becoin on January 22, 2013, 05:44:19 PM

Quote from: Bogart on January 22, 2013, 03:34:31 PM

With BTC value behaving like it is, I'll bet there's a lot of ppl doing the same thing right now (selling for fiat).

Your bet is wrong. Again. There are much more ppl buying bitcoins than ppl selling bitcoins. This is why bitcoin price is going up, not down!

Were more hot dogs bought or sold in New York today? Think carefully...

Hah! I get it.

notme

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Quote from: michaelmclees on January 22, 2013, 06:24:23 PM

Quote from: becoin on January 22, 2013, 05:44:19 PM

Quote from: Bogart on January 22, 2013, 03:34:31 PM

With BTC value behaving like it is, I'll bet there's a lot of ppl doing the same thing right now (selling for fiat).

Your bet is wrong. Again. There are much more ppl buying bitcoins than ppl selling bitcoins. This is why bitcoin price is going up, not down!

Were more hot dogs bought or sold in New York today? Think carefully...

Sold. The ones that were not bought never existed and merely serve to launder funds obtained from other sources.

michaelmclees

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Quote from: becoin on January 22, 2013, 05:44:19 PM

Quote from: Bogart on January 22, 2013, 03:34:31 PM

With BTC value behaving like it is, I'll bet there's a lot of ppl doing the same thing right now (selling for fiat).

Your bet is wrong. Again. There are much more ppl buying bitcoins than ppl selling bitcoins. This is why bitcoin price is going up, not down!

Were more hot dogs bought or sold in New York today? Think carefully...

becoin

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Quote from: Bogart on January 22, 2013, 03:34:31 PM

With BTC value behaving like it is, I'll bet there's a lot of ppl doing the same thing right now (selling for fiat).

Your bet is wrong. Again. There are much more ppl buying bitcoins than ppl selling bitcoins. This is why bitcoin price is going up, not down!

HDSolar

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Not sure if anyone cares but bitfloor is doing just fine, a little slow on payouts but getting my money with no issue. Grin

fcmatt

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mtgox dwolla withdrawal took about 30 minutes today. minor amount but wicked fast.

Bogart

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Quote from: epetroel on January 22, 2013, 01:53:45 PM

Funny, I withdrew $3,000 yesterday to Dwolla and got the money the same day. Ditto on (I believe) the 18th. Was actually quite surprised as I'm used to waiting several days.

I guess you used up a lot of their cushion.

With BTC value behaving like it is, I'll bet there's a lot of ppl doing the same thing right now (selling for fiat).

Stapleddiet

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I withdrew 10K Aud by bank wire on the first of Jan and had it a few working days later, I have never had a problem with Gox in 2 years and any support questions have been answered quickly.

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Quote from: epetroel on January 22, 2013, 01:53:45 PM

Funny, I withdrew $3,000 yesterday to Dwolla and got the money the same day. Ditto on (I believe) the 18th. Was actually quite surprised as I'm used to waiting several days.

You kidding, huh!!! I am waiting for 2 weeks.

Had requested another wire withdrawal, haven't got it either. Asked for receipt, and MtGox support folks don't even bother responding. Just rolled it into a first request.

Speaking of which, have anybody here received WIRE withdrawals from gox latey, and what was the wait time

epetroel

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Funny, I withdrew $3,000 yesterday to Dwolla and got the money the same day. Ditto on (I believe) the 18th. Was actually quite surprised as I'm used to waiting several days.

Third Way

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I don't like this one bit. I understand the minimum for banks to start up IRS work with withdrawals or deposits for IRS purposes in the states is akin to $5000 or close to that, perhaps banks in Japan are more tightly regulated?

On the other hand, I do not blame Dwolla as much, though I hate them as much as PayPal(which if you did not know, is not and will never be, your pal).

Problems caused by statists really, you know, for making sure you pay your 'fair share'. And for the roads, and the kids!

Quote from: michaelmclees on January 22, 2013, 09:00:38 AM

Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:17:14 AM

Sure... I could understand that for a few days. But 11 days and counting? That doesn't make much sense.

Welcome to our world.

Burn! You are as cold as ice!

Korbman

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Quote from: michaelmclees on January 22, 2013, 09:00:38 AM

Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:17:14 AM

Sure... I could understand that for a few days. But 11 days and counting? That doesn't make much sense.

Welcome to our world.

Ha! +1

michaelmclees

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Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:17:14 AM

Sure... I could understand that for a few days. But 11 days and counting? That doesn't make much sense.

Welcome to our world.

AmDD

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I just transferred about $800 from mt gox to dwolla on the 17th or 18th of last week. The money was there almost instantly and then from dwolla to my bank was also fast. I was able to access the money yesterday, even with the weekend and a holiday.

My mtgox>dwolla>bank experience in the past has never been this quick, but I'll take it!

cbeast

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Let's talk governance, lipstick, and pigs.

Quote from: Mt.Gox_Support_Natalie on January 22, 2013, 04:53:48 AM

Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:17:14 AM

Sure... I could understand that for a few days. But 11 days and counting? That doesn't make much sense.

Hello,

We have sent funds to Dwolla since last week and we are waiting for the funds to arrive to facilitate the Dwolla withdrawals. The support staff will inform you once your withdrawal is processed. Once again we apologize for the delay.

It appears Inaba chose the Bitcoin hating Dwolla for one large (over $1000) fund withdrawal. Poor choice for large amounts. Would it not be better to split up payments through BitInstant, CoinBase, and other exchanges?

ElectricMucus

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Marketing manager - GO MP

Oh Hai.

lucif

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Rename topic: Inaba is apparently out of money

becoin

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Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:09:52 AM

Huh... MTGox can't even afford a $4000 withdrawal after 10+ days. This does not bode well.

Huh... Looks like a very similar situation if you can't afford full bitcoin refunds.
BFL is apparently out of bitcoins...

Mt.Gox_Support_Natalie

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Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:17:14 AM

Sure... I could understand that for a few days. But 11 days and counting? That doesn't make much sense.

Hello,

We have sent funds to Dwolla since last week and we are waiting for the funds to arrive to facilitate the Dwolla withdrawals. The support staff will inform you once your withdrawal is processed. Once again we apologize for the delay.

mc_lovin

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I agree they probably only keep a minimal amount of money on Dwolla. Seeing as how Tradehill was suing Dwolla over holding funds (or something), I bet Mt. Gox only keeps a minimal amount in there. Probably about the same amount you have withdrawn.

And seeing as how it takes like a week or so to move USD in and out of exchanges, they would probably have to take money out specifically for a large withdrawal.

I think $4k to them is pocketchange, especially with $17 coins and the volume of BTC they move through, that's only 235 BTC, I'm sure they can handle that.

Give it time.

Are you.. looking to pre-order some Avalons ASAP? (jokes)

Thread title = misleading!!!!

420

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okay why was the new posts deleted?

repentance

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Quote from: Inaba on January 22, 2013, 12:17:14 AM

Sure... I could understand that for a few days. But 11 days and counting? That doesn't make much sense.

They limit their Dwolla exposure at any given time so Dwolla transactions are often back-logged. There are likely other people ahead of you in the queue for Dwolla processing so your request may not get processed until a previous batch of withdrawals has fully cleared.

I sometimes think MtGox would be better off dumping Dwolla altogether as their risk management strategy for limiting potential losses is extremely customer-unfriendly even though it's very necessary.

SuperTramp

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Quote from: pyra-proxy on January 22, 2013, 12:13:22 AM

I think that is because they only keep a limited amount of funds in their dwolla account to protect against dwolla freezing BTC related accounts...... not that they are broke or some such....

+1
I think that is how they handle it as well. Probably would have been better off splitting it up in to smaller withdrawals.

Inaba

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Sure... I could understand that for a few days. But 11 days and counting? That doesn't make much sense.

pyra-proxy

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I think that is because they only keep a limited amount of funds in their dwolla account to protect against dwolla freezing BTC related accounts...... not that they are broke or some such....

Inaba

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So I initiated a $4000 MTGox Dwolla withdrawal over ten days ago... I sent in two support tickets and they finally got back to me tonight, here's what the response was.

Quote

Gene, Jan 22 13:06 (JST):

Hello Josh,

The transaction is still in process and the transaction has not been processed due to insufficient funds in our account.We will retry and update you once processed.We appreciate your patience.

Thanks,

MtGox.com Team

Huh... MTGox can't even afford a $4000 withdrawal after 10+ days. This does not bode well.

Topic: MTGox is apparently out of money... (Read 7263 times)