Topic: MtGox: Seeking Truth - Stolen or Lost? It's an important distinction. (Read 1191 times)

See here: https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/what-happened-to-the-missing-gox-coins-494695

Don't forget to look at the letstalkbitcoin link too to explain the first 2 wallets that got 90,000 worth of bitcoin deposited into them in 2011.

Just because the Bitcoin can be traced to a wallet without movement doesn't mean that the Bitcoin isn't lost or stolen. Both can still be the case, unless the address can be attached to personal or corporate identification. Even then, Bitcoin can still be lost if the personal keys are lost.

What are the addresses to the 270k Bitcoin?

Neither. Not accessible.

11 wallets uncovered so far containing 270,000 bitcoins that have pretty compelling proof that they are those of MtGox. IMHO, they f8cked up and lost access to the private keys, because all of those wallets still have BTC sitting in them and they aren't moving.

The malleability is a lie. Mt. Gox themselves stole the BTC.

Malleability exploit just avoid a transaction from being confirmed, they would have to send it again manually under user's request. An user ou a group of users would have to claim it was not received a gazillion of times until it reraches 750k coins. Impossible to pass unoticed even if they were negligent with their balances.

Also why they would send it again? Any one with commom sense with just tell to wait the confirmation. And, don't you think their system have a simple "total balance" print just like a wallet?

I suggest that we look at the MtGox in the light of several possibilities, all of which must be treated differently. To date, most of the *hate* has been directed at MtGox. We should be very careful here, because Bitcoin is too important to just point a finger and leave it at that. Bitcoin is a way to take our world to a level of thinking that is above this reactive witch hunting.

I see six possibilities, and I am sure there are more. However, each should be treated differently. We must identify the distinction between placing fault on MtGox and placing fault on someone else, because it is possible that MtGox is a victim.

1) MtGox (or one of its employees) was fraudulent: they intentionally engaged in fractional reserve banking without disclosure to its customers or flat out stole fiat cash and/or Bitcoin.

2) MtGox (or employee) was negligent, and was a victim of theft: MtGox accidentally engaged in fractional reserve banking due to a bug or poor accounting without knowing (the Double Spend) and one or more people outside of MtGox took advantage of this. (This is the equivalent to someone leaving the door to their home open and a burglar, seeing this, walking in and taking goods from the home.)

3) MtGox (or an employee) was negligent, period: MtGox put 800,000 coins into cold storage and forgot the password, building burned down without backup, etc...

4) MtGox is victim of government intervention: It is possible that a government (likely US or Japan) has frozen Bitcoin and/or FIAT cash accounts. As the hot wallets are depleted due to concern of lost Bitcoins, the company is forced to declare bankruptcy. Gag order prevents MtGox executives from saying anything.

5) MtGox is a victim of theft: Someone or group of people have found a way to steal Bitcoin from MtGox, using a weakness in either MtGox's software.

6) Bitcoin has a weakness enabling people to steal from one another.


Back to the above; the most important distinction to make is that we need to be sure that MtGox is at fault and that there is no theft or government interference causing it's collapse. If the collapse is due to theft or government interference, the entire Bitcoin community is at risk if the Bitcoin community does not support MtGox, or even worse, blames MtGox. No organization is free from threat, and it is up to society to defend such.

I do own up to the responsibility of not having diversified my holdings. But in doing so, I am also holding up to the personal responsibility of getting it back. I am sure there are others that would like to join. We may not be able to count on traditional government to help us recoup, but Bitcoin itself is far beyond traditional. I would like to see the Bitcoin Foundation take a step towards heading an investigation, but this may not happen. I will personally put plenty of time and resources into finding out what happened. I've seen threads like this before, but has anyone started to organize? Can we get a website up for this? Maybe a conference call?

It seems there are people reviewing the Blockchain. They may want to keep this information out of the hands of non-interested parties. If that is the case, please contact all the Bitcoin owners, and I will be pleased. Otherwise, I will be one of many that seek truth.