Topic: multi chains bitcoins, alvin toffler, star trek, tribes nations, sovereignty (Read 2178 times)
June 29, 2011, 11:27:45 AM
June 29, 2011, 11:16:00 AM
hello! i want to know more about what variations to bitcoins generations rules can be safe from global bitcoin market perspective and if in actual bitcoin scheme is any chance to be allowed private owned bitcoins generation?
i mean can be bitcoins multiroot? or multichains? with realtime value adjustments and trust chain between different bitcoins like is now to bitcoins?
can have in my wallet pocket in same time gold bitcoins and silver bitcoins and coca-cola bitcoins or wikileaks bitcoins all circulating in parallel with variable and diferent values between each pairs of multichain bitcoins?
why i think is important this aspect:
let's name actual bitcoins chains with Satoshi Nakamoto genesis block the GOLD BITCOINS ... is one type of bitcoins minted with a set of rules who have in each moment a exchange value in the network determined by gold bitcoins rules agreed by each participants in this network
this network and his members can be assimilated to a tribe with common goals, gold bitcoins tribe network!
this gold bitcoins is not my bitcoins! is not minted by be! i can have gold bitcoins only exchanging real goods to gold bitcoins network economic entities who own bitcoins and want to sell me bitcoins in exchange of something with real value to it ....
i can sell real goods to buy gold bitcoins
i can sell other real money, $ or €, to buy gold bitcoins ( this can easy be counted as real goods with a real, actual, value also )
i can generate gold bitcoins from nothing only if i join the network and obey his rules, i mean only if i mine gold bitcoins helping with my computing power to gold bitcoins blocks
when I came into possession of this means that i paired gold bitcoins tribe network and i am now a member of the network!
is a set of rule, one sets of bitcoins generations, that make Satoshi Nakamoto a true sovereign person! his rules! his money! his tribe!
i want to be like him! a true sovereign economic agent! but i have few €, few $, and almost no goods! i have only me and my potential market value! my work power, my knowledge and so on ...
so what to do in this conditions? how i can survive until with my work can buy gold bitcoins? i can't! i can not survive with thin air! so, i need to
1. work alone and make my own food. my own goods. from gold bitcoin network ecosystem point of view right now i do not exist as a bitcoin network agent nor as a sovereign entity ...
2. band with other real economic agents and make real goods, as an simple employer or establishing a real company who make and sell something
3. pick an axe and hammer with it around me, until some gold bitcoins pop out from thin air, broken heads, bodies chopped up and burned houses
now i have something real, real goods in my hands or real work done to someone else ... i want to sell my goods! i found a buyer with X gold bitcoins, a limited supply of gold bitcoins enforced by gold bitcoins network rules, his rules! Satoshi Nakamoto rules!
let's name my customer, who want my goods and want to pay for it, cocacola multinational corporate company ... no joke, can be true!
my customer think that my goods, be it real goods, my work, my services, my knowledge etc have a 2X bitcoins "real value" but can not sell to me 2X gold bitcoins only 1X gold bitcoins because cocacola do not have more gold bitcoins!
why? because global network of gold bitcoins owners think that until now cocacola goods worth 1 gold bitcoins not 2 gold bitcoins!
my customer think that gold bitcoins market rules is too thight and acces to gold bitcoins unfair because what global network think about his goods market value differ from my and cocacola company think of what should be! me and cocacola settled to a common value different of the rest of gold bitcoin tribe members
conflict! but in a market with true sovereign market agents should be no problems with this diferences in values of some real goods! WE SIMPLY MINT OUR BITCOINS! AS TRUE SOVEREIGN ECONOMIC AGENTS!
for us to help the elderly is a real value exchange, for others maybe not
for others to wage wars can have some real exchange value but not for us!
different network tribes with different values for something! this means a need for different bitcoins! gold bitcoins, silver bitcoins, cocacola bitcoins
if cocacola can make his bitcoins with his own generation rules they can pay me in cocacola bitcoins
if me can make my silver bitcoins with my generations rules then i can buy someone else goods selling my silver bitcoins in exchange of his real goods or cocacola goods, including cocacola bitcoins ... as true sovereign economic entities this exchanges can happen only if both of us agree!
because only if you can generate you own money you are a true sovereign economic agent! but if you use only gold bitcoins you are constrained to bitcoin network rules of bitcoins generations, availability and exchanging rules! like we are now constrained to $ network rules or € network rules!
if this multichain poll of multiple bitcoins all of it can bound to a mutual minimal set of exchange rules to make all of it compatible an interoperable then all type of bitcoins as a global bitcoins network will be strengthened as a whole!
this can happen only if all bitcoins variants agree to a minimal set of exchange rules!
for my initial problem, no gold bitcoins but real value i can simply self-lend me a number of my own generated bitcoins! i can raise the flag, proclaim my sovereignty and mint my pinkelephant bitcoins! ofcourse unde my rules! can be a faster bitcoin generations, a number of pinkelephant bitcoins available in no time so i can try to establish a exchange value for my pinkelephant bitcoins
until is no real exchanges of my pinkelephant bitcoins with a owner of other bitcoins from bitcoins network market, my pinkelephant bitcoins have zero value
when i can make a first such exchange of pinkelephant bitcoins to gold bitcoins i think gold bitcoins generation rules should provide a mechanism of exchanging value like is now in exchanging markets between bitcoins and € or $!
this means that the true value of bitcoins ecosistem can be strengthened if we can make a mechanism of global exchanging rules where different networks with different bitcoins can make, distribute to its members and exchange with other bitcoins networks his own bitcoins!
right now i see only setups of exchange markets between bitcoins and $ or € ... bitcoins generations rules can be extended in such way to make possible other variants of bitcoins, pink bitcoins, cocacola bitcoins, silver bitcoins, gold bitcoins etc in such a way that all this different bitcoins to be fully compatible with each other? to be automatically exchangeable?
if we can extend in this direction the bitcoin concept then all bitcoins market, as a whole, will be more valuable for its members!
for this is needed only a mechanism of compatible generations of multichain bitcoins with different rules of availability but with a common rule of exchanging and exchanging value calculation!
between an instant generation of fixed number of pink bitcoins by pink network to one of hardest generations rules of new uranium bitcoins by uranium network ...
and real economic agents will create, join or leave different netwoks using different bitcoins according to their own ideals and interests in each of it!
can be networks of catholic monks, public hospitals, armed gangs, national governments, african tribes and so on ...
is a need for this multiroot bitcoins environment simply because he have different networks with different values for same phisical things! a unique global bitcoin network will unfortunately force a single value of goods for all network participants which is not good in long term perspective!
if somewhere in future will be a single global gold bitcoin this should be only as a result of free and unforced augment in time of different bitcoins networks!
we live in a multicultural and diverse world with peoples and economic agents with different views, ideals and values to a huge range of economic goods not in a uniform and conformant new world age!
if a number of economic agents have compatible views, ideals and values can band togheter and make a tribe
if between two tribes members is a disagreement in value evaluations of the same economic goods the right to split and use separate bitcoin values using different bitcoins should be embedded in the very heart of bitcoin concept to keep the chance of easy exchange value evaluation between that two tribes!
cocacola tribe will use in his network cocacola bitcoins who in turn will have a X cocacola bitcoins price for his cocacola bottles to its cocacola network tribe economic agents
pepsicola tribe will use in his network pepsicola bitcoins who in turn will have a Z pepsicola bitcoins price for his pepsicola bottles to its pepsicola network tribe economic agents
cocacola tribe members like cocacola bottles and drink mainly cocacola bottles
pepsicola tribe members like pepsicola bottles and drink mainly pepsicola bottles
a cocacola tribe member can buy and drink pepsicola bottles or cocacola bottles in exchange of his cocacola bitcoins or pepsicola bitcoins and viceversa a pepsicolacola tribe member can buy and drink pepsicola bottles or cocacola bottles in exchange of his cocacola bitcoins or pepsicola bitcoins each according to its views, ideals and values
the demand of cocacola bitcoins or pepsicola bitcoins by cocacola tribe members or pepsicola tribe members in bitcoin global exchange markets will establish a global exchanging rate of pepsicola bitcoins to cocacola bitcoins and vice versa ... until this exchange rate is not 1 to 1 pepsicola bitcoins and cocacola bitcoins have a good reason to exist as different bitcoins if cocacola tribe and pepsicola tribe still think that both have different internal rules in disagreement and incompatible to each other ...
even if a rate of 1 to 1 exchange value between pepsicola bitcoins and cocacola bitcoins will persist for some time the two network can be still in disagreement and separate
but if this 1 to 1 exchange rate persist for a long time i think is one more reason for both tribe members to reevaluate their illusory and illogical differences! because free market forces tell to both tribes members that this is not true anymore both tribes have in fact similar and compatible rules, value views and ideals!
so, is time to band together and be friends not foes anymore!
using such mechanism where cooperative social networks try to collaborate not by force but using agreed exchanging market mechanism i think this bitcoin e-money concept can deliver a true and profound change in our global humanity!
in this way a real star-trek society will be no more SF but a possible future! the key for a better future lie in diversity and cooperation between network tribes nations not a big brother dystopian bleach new era
LE:
==
more explanations why multichain bitcoin network can be a better solution with an global bitcoins exchange market that end in an equilibrum between inflationary and deflationary market forces:
timothyblee.com - Bitcoin’s Collusion Problem
în short words, bitcoin network collusion problem is not a deadly bug but a killer and must have feature!
i mean can be bitcoins multiroot? or multichains? with realtime value adjustments and trust chain between different bitcoins like is now to bitcoins?
can have in my wallet pocket in same time gold bitcoins and silver bitcoins and coca-cola bitcoins or wikileaks bitcoins all circulating in parallel with variable and diferent values between each pairs of multichain bitcoins?
why i think is important this aspect:
let's name actual bitcoins chains with Satoshi Nakamoto genesis block the GOLD BITCOINS ... is one type of bitcoins minted with a set of rules who have in each moment a exchange value in the network determined by gold bitcoins rules agreed by each participants in this network
this network and his members can be assimilated to a tribe with common goals, gold bitcoins tribe network!
this gold bitcoins is not my bitcoins! is not minted by be! i can have gold bitcoins only exchanging real goods to gold bitcoins network economic entities who own bitcoins and want to sell me bitcoins in exchange of something with real value to it ....
i can sell real goods to buy gold bitcoins
i can sell other real money, $ or €, to buy gold bitcoins ( this can easy be counted as real goods with a real, actual, value also )
i can generate gold bitcoins from nothing only if i join the network and obey his rules, i mean only if i mine gold bitcoins helping with my computing power to gold bitcoins blocks
when I came into possession of this means that i paired gold bitcoins tribe network and i am now a member of the network!
is a set of rule, one sets of bitcoins generations, that make Satoshi Nakamoto a true sovereign person! his rules! his money! his tribe!
i want to be like him! a true sovereign economic agent! but i have few €, few $, and almost no goods! i have only me and my potential market value! my work power, my knowledge and so on ...
so what to do in this conditions? how i can survive until with my work can buy gold bitcoins? i can't! i can not survive with thin air! so, i need to
1. work alone and make my own food. my own goods. from gold bitcoin network ecosystem point of view right now i do not exist as a bitcoin network agent nor as a sovereign entity ...
2. band with other real economic agents and make real goods, as an simple employer or establishing a real company who make and sell something
3. pick an axe and hammer with it around me, until some gold bitcoins pop out from thin air, broken heads, bodies chopped up and burned houses
now i have something real, real goods in my hands or real work done to someone else ... i want to sell my goods! i found a buyer with X gold bitcoins, a limited supply of gold bitcoins enforced by gold bitcoins network rules, his rules! Satoshi Nakamoto rules!
let's name my customer, who want my goods and want to pay for it, cocacola multinational corporate company ... no joke, can be true!
my customer think that my goods, be it real goods, my work, my services, my knowledge etc have a 2X bitcoins "real value" but can not sell to me 2X gold bitcoins only 1X gold bitcoins because cocacola do not have more gold bitcoins!
why? because global network of gold bitcoins owners think that until now cocacola goods worth 1 gold bitcoins not 2 gold bitcoins!
my customer think that gold bitcoins market rules is too thight and acces to gold bitcoins unfair because what global network think about his goods market value differ from my and cocacola company think of what should be! me and cocacola settled to a common value different of the rest of gold bitcoin tribe members
conflict! but in a market with true sovereign market agents should be no problems with this diferences in values of some real goods! WE SIMPLY MINT OUR BITCOINS! AS TRUE SOVEREIGN ECONOMIC AGENTS!
for us to help the elderly is a real value exchange, for others maybe not
for others to wage wars can have some real exchange value but not for us!
different network tribes with different values for something! this means a need for different bitcoins! gold bitcoins, silver bitcoins, cocacola bitcoins
if cocacola can make his bitcoins with his own generation rules they can pay me in cocacola bitcoins
if me can make my silver bitcoins with my generations rules then i can buy someone else goods selling my silver bitcoins in exchange of his real goods or cocacola goods, including cocacola bitcoins ... as true sovereign economic entities this exchanges can happen only if both of us agree!
because only if you can generate you own money you are a true sovereign economic agent! but if you use only gold bitcoins you are constrained to bitcoin network rules of bitcoins generations, availability and exchanging rules! like we are now constrained to $ network rules or € network rules!
if this multichain poll of multiple bitcoins all of it can bound to a mutual minimal set of exchange rules to make all of it compatible an interoperable then all type of bitcoins as a global bitcoins network will be strengthened as a whole!
this can happen only if all bitcoins variants agree to a minimal set of exchange rules!
for my initial problem, no gold bitcoins but real value i can simply self-lend me a number of my own generated bitcoins! i can raise the flag, proclaim my sovereignty and mint my pinkelephant bitcoins! ofcourse unde my rules! can be a faster bitcoin generations, a number of pinkelephant bitcoins available in no time so i can try to establish a exchange value for my pinkelephant bitcoins
until is no real exchanges of my pinkelephant bitcoins with a owner of other bitcoins from bitcoins network market, my pinkelephant bitcoins have zero value
when i can make a first such exchange of pinkelephant bitcoins to gold bitcoins i think gold bitcoins generation rules should provide a mechanism of exchanging value like is now in exchanging markets between bitcoins and € or $!
this means that the true value of bitcoins ecosistem can be strengthened if we can make a mechanism of global exchanging rules where different networks with different bitcoins can make, distribute to its members and exchange with other bitcoins networks his own bitcoins!
right now i see only setups of exchange markets between bitcoins and $ or € ... bitcoins generations rules can be extended in such way to make possible other variants of bitcoins, pink bitcoins, cocacola bitcoins, silver bitcoins, gold bitcoins etc in such a way that all this different bitcoins to be fully compatible with each other? to be automatically exchangeable?
if we can extend in this direction the bitcoin concept then all bitcoins market, as a whole, will be more valuable for its members!
for this is needed only a mechanism of compatible generations of multichain bitcoins with different rules of availability but with a common rule of exchanging and exchanging value calculation!
between an instant generation of fixed number of pink bitcoins by pink network to one of hardest generations rules of new uranium bitcoins by uranium network ...
and real economic agents will create, join or leave different netwoks using different bitcoins according to their own ideals and interests in each of it!
can be networks of catholic monks, public hospitals, armed gangs, national governments, african tribes and so on ...
is a need for this multiroot bitcoins environment simply because he have different networks with different values for same phisical things! a unique global bitcoin network will unfortunately force a single value of goods for all network participants which is not good in long term perspective!
if somewhere in future will be a single global gold bitcoin this should be only as a result of free and unforced augment in time of different bitcoins networks!
we live in a multicultural and diverse world with peoples and economic agents with different views, ideals and values to a huge range of economic goods not in a uniform and conformant new world age!
if a number of economic agents have compatible views, ideals and values can band togheter and make a tribe
if between two tribes members is a disagreement in value evaluations of the same economic goods the right to split and use separate bitcoin values using different bitcoins should be embedded in the very heart of bitcoin concept to keep the chance of easy exchange value evaluation between that two tribes!
cocacola tribe will use in his network cocacola bitcoins who in turn will have a X cocacola bitcoins price for his cocacola bottles to its cocacola network tribe economic agents
pepsicola tribe will use in his network pepsicola bitcoins who in turn will have a Z pepsicola bitcoins price for his pepsicola bottles to its pepsicola network tribe economic agents
cocacola tribe members like cocacola bottles and drink mainly cocacola bottles
pepsicola tribe members like pepsicola bottles and drink mainly pepsicola bottles
a cocacola tribe member can buy and drink pepsicola bottles or cocacola bottles in exchange of his cocacola bitcoins or pepsicola bitcoins and viceversa a pepsicolacola tribe member can buy and drink pepsicola bottles or cocacola bottles in exchange of his cocacola bitcoins or pepsicola bitcoins each according to its views, ideals and values
the demand of cocacola bitcoins or pepsicola bitcoins by cocacola tribe members or pepsicola tribe members in bitcoin global exchange markets will establish a global exchanging rate of pepsicola bitcoins to cocacola bitcoins and vice versa ... until this exchange rate is not 1 to 1 pepsicola bitcoins and cocacola bitcoins have a good reason to exist as different bitcoins if cocacola tribe and pepsicola tribe still think that both have different internal rules in disagreement and incompatible to each other ...
even if a rate of 1 to 1 exchange value between pepsicola bitcoins and cocacola bitcoins will persist for some time the two network can be still in disagreement and separate
but if this 1 to 1 exchange rate persist for a long time i think is one more reason for both tribe members to reevaluate their illusory and illogical differences! because free market forces tell to both tribes members that this is not true anymore both tribes have in fact similar and compatible rules, value views and ideals!
so, is time to band together and be friends not foes anymore!
using such mechanism where cooperative social networks try to collaborate not by force but using agreed exchanging market mechanism i think this bitcoin e-money concept can deliver a true and profound change in our global humanity!
in this way a real star-trek society will be no more SF but a possible future! the key for a better future lie in diversity and cooperation between network tribes nations not a big brother dystopian bleach new era
LE:
==
more explanations why multichain bitcoin network can be a better solution with an global bitcoins exchange market that end in an equilibrum between inflationary and deflationary market forces:
timothyblee.com - Bitcoin’s Collusion Problem
în short words, bitcoin network collusion problem is not a deadly bug but a killer and must have feature!
Quote
well, i think that this theoretic nonzero chance of collusion is a good thing! i even advocate that, and in this way bitcoins can overcome the supply side of bitcoins which is in a fixed quantity ..
what if any bitcoin of this first generation, let's name it it gold bitcoins or generation zero seed bitcoins can be a point of inflexion, a gatekeeper, from where a new network of silver bitcoins can be generated? not divisible by eight decimals like is now but theoretically infinite divisible!
bitcoin p2p infrastructure can do that and still avoid actual poor fiat money policy with periodic bubble bust to adjust derailed money supply in a very simple way:
like you told here, treat all this forked networks as different currency! not alien, not invalid, but splitted networks with different policies of money generations a
with different policies of minting money, maybe some central governments want a quick money printing for good reasons like money injections in real economy to fuel investments!
this can be done without destroying gold bitcoins values and without demantling p2p bitcoin protocol of efficient money distribution if in this inflection points, at gold bitcoin p2p network point where a particular bitcoin block will be splitted and forked in a silver bitcoin network, can be established bitcoins exchanging points where gold bitcoins and silver bitcoins can be exchanged in a free market with commonly agreed rules
is so easy to avoid gold bitcoin perpetual deflation! is exactly like you describe here, with an initial network branch collusion!
but instead of full split and two isolated networks can be cooperating networks if silver bitcoin branch will agree to be part of gold bitcoins in an p2p bitcoin exchange market
of course initially because silver bitcoins network is a split and division of a fixed amount of global gold bitcoins network the sum of value of all silver bitcoins denominated in gold bitcoins must be a equal to this initial gold bitcoins splitted!
and only an p2p bitcoin exchange market can control future value between two competing networks, gold bitcoins, generation zero seed bitcoins, and silver bitcoins! only free marked demand for gold bitcoins or silver bitcoins will drive gold bitcoins value against silver bitcoins value
and because in that distant future, gold bitcoins will be more hard to generate and more scarce this means will be more valuable and NEVER total sum of silver bitcoins will not exceed a tiny and fixed amount of gold bitcoins!
and in an ever more distant future even silver bitcoins will begin to be a scarce resorce! then this p2p network split can fork again a copper bitcoins network from a fixed amount of silver bitcoins!
all that is need for a global stabilization of bitcoin deflation is a minimal set of rules for an global exchange market for all bitcoins variants!
everybody wins! FED is busted!
central governments, if there will be something in the future to survive will be more careful how spend money and ask tax payers fees! will not have the same sovereign power of taxation as far as money will be outside government control! if they want to issue any currency will have to follow the rules! p2p global bitcoin network rules!
and this rules is simple, if you print money at your sovereign national discretion don't print too many if you want to have any value when you ask to join our global p2p bitcoin network because in our exchange market will worth nothing! you can not devaluate gold bitcoins value at you discretion generating too many silver bitcoins!
beware! gold bitcoins will keep market value and only silver bitcoins will be cheaper! p2p bitcoin network can handle that quite easy with his infinite power of divisibility!
and not gold bitcoins network need to obey silver bitcoin network rules, silver bitcoins network need to prove that use same rules participating in a common bitcoins exchange market!
is simple like that!
what if any bitcoin of this first generation, let's name it it gold bitcoins or generation zero seed bitcoins can be a point of inflexion, a gatekeeper, from where a new network of silver bitcoins can be generated? not divisible by eight decimals like is now but theoretically infinite divisible!
bitcoin p2p infrastructure can do that and still avoid actual poor fiat money policy with periodic bubble bust to adjust derailed money supply in a very simple way:
like you told here, treat all this forked networks as different currency! not alien, not invalid, but splitted networks with different policies of money generations a
with different policies of minting money, maybe some central governments want a quick money printing for good reasons like money injections in real economy to fuel investments!
this can be done without destroying gold bitcoins values and without demantling p2p bitcoin protocol of efficient money distribution if in this inflection points, at gold bitcoin p2p network point where a particular bitcoin block will be splitted and forked in a silver bitcoin network, can be established bitcoins exchanging points where gold bitcoins and silver bitcoins can be exchanged in a free market with commonly agreed rules
is so easy to avoid gold bitcoin perpetual deflation! is exactly like you describe here, with an initial network branch collusion!
but instead of full split and two isolated networks can be cooperating networks if silver bitcoin branch will agree to be part of gold bitcoins in an p2p bitcoin exchange market
of course initially because silver bitcoins network is a split and division of a fixed amount of global gold bitcoins network the sum of value of all silver bitcoins denominated in gold bitcoins must be a equal to this initial gold bitcoins splitted!
and only an p2p bitcoin exchange market can control future value between two competing networks, gold bitcoins, generation zero seed bitcoins, and silver bitcoins! only free marked demand for gold bitcoins or silver bitcoins will drive gold bitcoins value against silver bitcoins value
and because in that distant future, gold bitcoins will be more hard to generate and more scarce this means will be more valuable and NEVER total sum of silver bitcoins will not exceed a tiny and fixed amount of gold bitcoins!
and in an ever more distant future even silver bitcoins will begin to be a scarce resorce! then this p2p network split can fork again a copper bitcoins network from a fixed amount of silver bitcoins!
all that is need for a global stabilization of bitcoin deflation is a minimal set of rules for an global exchange market for all bitcoins variants!
everybody wins! FED is busted!
central governments, if there will be something in the future to survive will be more careful how spend money and ask tax payers fees! will not have the same sovereign power of taxation as far as money will be outside government control! if they want to issue any currency will have to follow the rules! p2p global bitcoin network rules!
and this rules is simple, if you print money at your sovereign national discretion don't print too many if you want to have any value when you ask to join our global p2p bitcoin network because in our exchange market will worth nothing! you can not devaluate gold bitcoins value at you discretion generating too many silver bitcoins!
beware! gold bitcoins will keep market value and only silver bitcoins will be cheaper! p2p bitcoin network can handle that quite easy with his infinite power of divisibility!
and not gold bitcoins network need to obey silver bitcoin network rules, silver bitcoins network need to prove that use same rules participating in a common bitcoins exchange market!
is simple like that!
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