Topic: Murphy backing gold standard bill (Read 302 times)

i know its' not exactly as decentralized as bitcoin but having a government run depository should mean my gold is INSURED against any type of losses.

there is no company. the government would be running it. if it was a company, i wouldn't be so excited.

we're not talking about a company, we are talking about the us government. they would insure EVERYTHING. up to a certain amount. just like they do with bank and savings accounts. or you don't believe that guarantee is any good?

https://www.fdic.gov/resources/deposit-insurance/
The FDIC provides deposit insurance to protect your money in the event of a bank failure. Your deposits are automatically insured to at least $250,000 at each FDIC-insured bank.

if you don't then take your money out of all bank accounts immediately! and put them in bitcoin.

two points to make:

selling your gold at the gold dealer or pawn shop you always take a hit. they never pay spot price, they always discount you. same for when you buy,they always add a "premium" on top of the spot price. these things cause you to lose money. hopefully a government run depository would have a much tighter "spread" than these scam mom and pop gold dealers who rip people off. i call them mom and pop dealers but really everyone. you can never get spot price. ever.

having a tighter spread means you can actually cash out small amounts of gold with a debit card to buy things without getting ripped off. unlike with the dealer who will only buy an ounce at a time. and pay you less than what its really worth by ALOT.

Gold is a very precious metal so usually gold cannot be purchased with minimum amount of money. To buy gold we have to spend at least 50 dollars to 100 dollars so how is it possible that a person can buy gold with a dollar or less. Gold means we understand it is very valuable, but we cannot buy gold if we don't have enough money. Most people buy gold to fulfill their hobby. There are very few people who buy gold and try to earn profit rather they buy gold and see that money as savings and also use the gold. If gold can be bought for a dollar or less and this policy is implemented worldwide, many low-income people may be able to fulfill their desire to buy gold.

Do you get the whole point of Bitcoin?
In your example, the investors are buying a "promise" that this company will buy actual gold with their money and store it in a safe place.
You are still putting all your money and your trust in a centralized entity and you will have to pray every day that this company won't scam you and run away with your money(or gold). It doesn't matter if it's actual gold being stored somewhere or some other financial asset. The investors don't have control over that gold, which means that the gold isn't their possession. A similar example would be putting all your BTC in a centralized exchange and hoping that the centralized exchange won't scam you and run away with your BTC.

Indeed, it is an object that we can make as decoration, or as a bar, which has a very valuable value, indeed has a value whose price continues to rise over time, it can indeed be an investment for our future, if we have a lot of money saved, it is better to buy as much gold as possible, It's true that gold can't buy things, but indeed we can sell them at a high value anywhere and anytime, as long as we have gold, the price of gold will rise if the price of the dollar also rises, if we save a lot it won't make us lose money, where we need our money Just sell the gold directly to the shop, bitcoin doesn't have a form, it's just a number, but the value of that number is also high when the price of a coin rises high, and the dollar also rises, the price of bitcoin also rises, these two things we can make an investment for our future, be sure to save from now to change our lives.

i don't trust 3rd party companies to hold any of my crypto i guess. that would be my main objection to the solution you are mentioning above. they could just steal the bitcoin, or more likely go out of business and i lose all my money. or they could get hacked electronically. you can't hack gold electronically and its protected in a vault with armed guards. bitcoin is not.
 
i don't trust 3rd party companies to hold funds. Whether they hold bitcoin or gold. I've never heard of glint but they are not a government depository right? A government depository is different. I could trust something like that as far as storing gold there and using it with a debit card. But not a third party company that was not insured by the government. that's just how i see things.

this guy gets it! you deserve a merit good sir!

i think i would rather the government holding my gold than me trying to store it at home. but i understand what you're saying. but in my view, having a trustworthy custodian who is there to manage my gold and let me spend it without any hassle and keeping my gold safe and i would like the option to be able to cash out my gold if i wanted they should be able to send me gold bars that i owned at any time. what more could you ask for? but i don't know if they would do physical delivery. maybe they could get an agreement with the us postal service to do that.  

I think we would still need bitcoin because in this case there is a company called glint and you trust them, with bitcoin you trust no one. With a company (glint) you are going to be at their mercy, if they do back it up that's great, if they don't back it up then it's a problem.

This is why I believe that we should be careful with an idea like this, we can ALL start a business like this, give me money and I will buy gold to store at the same amount, and if you want to sell we would sell and pay you for it, it's all possible, or if you want to do beforehand you start with maybe couple billion dollars in gold, and then start, sure a rich way to start but there are many companies who can start a few billions. The company is the issue, why would we trust them to do the right thing?

Other projects offering "digital forms of real gold" are not started by the government, and their "secure warehouse" can be raided at any time. Having "Reno County State Rep. Michael Murphy backing a bill" in Kansas is much different and this will be a victory if it somehow passes.

Love the idea but BTC isnt competing with gold in the past, present or future the products are most definitely in different spheres of movement and usage.   Very likely different demographics with varied reasons to hold and use.   The reason people compare gold is its in contrast to BTC but so is everything potentially.

I've used BTC to buy gold and also other various crypto blockchains and they ceased that service because they wanted or required to have an entire paper trail for the gold purchase.   They didnt like crypto being so open and unscripted, out of nowhere almost in some cases which caused them regulatory problems to some extent I guess.   Lucky Im not rich then, I could be looked over but the business overall to place gold and BTC next to each other was like oil and water.


I know people might say well I used gold, I hold it and I hold BTC and thats true but the majority of gold value right now is going into central bank reserves.  For a decade or two net purchases of gold have been for the largest holders of Dollar to then switch to Gold as they prefer.   Thats the gold trend if you see price rising those are the buyers ultimately and the holders; they will hold that gold for longer then our life time hence gold being inert is highly useful.
   BTC needs to be used imo, its not an elemental metal its a highly secured transactional protocol so Gold & BTC will always be doing different tasks Im fairly sure.

What are you even comparing? Do you know that we have similar concept in Bitcoin as well? You can deposit Bitcoin into an online wallet and purchase a card from the wallet company. Then you can simply use that card to do all your daily transactions. The merchants get paid in Fiat and you spend in crypto.

It's the same concept you are referring here. It's already available in multiple countries and people are actively using it. When comparing, compare one apple with another Apple.

depository=custodian

.. i hope that translation explains why people still need bitcoin (if you are trying to avoid banks custodianising your value, dont resort to banks custodianising(depositing service) your value as the STUPIDLY promoted solution)

The "depository" is a good use-case for Gold and Silver, or ANY commodity for that matter. You're also right, if they get that instituted WORLDWIDE, we wouldn't need Bitcoin, but FOR transactions that don't require censorship-resistance. We also currently don't need Bitcoin for most of our daily transactions because there's fiat, your credit cards, the legacy banking system.

But you obviously miss the point of Bitcoin's value proposition and its ethos.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Well, I am not surprised that this is coming from a Republican, because although there are Republicans who like public spending more than what would correspond to their ideology, that of wanting to curb the deficit with this and make it legal to tender something that they cannot control or print at will is totally against socialist ideologies. 

It reminds me a bit of the idea of Peter Schiff, who after expressing for so many years his hatred of Bitcoin, now defends a shitcoin backed by gold.

But hey, in this case I don't see the project as a threat to Bitcoin. First, because it is not going to be implemented in a generalized way, and even less in the short term. There are too many people who are not interested. And besides, I think it is perfectly compatible with Bitcoin.

because gold is a store of value. but you couldn't always easily spend part of it.


this one is different because it would be government run. if you trust the government for any type of products or services then it would be hypocritical to be having an issue with not trusting them to run a depository.

and yet in their times of need many of them go running for help from uncle sam. they want to have their cake and eat it too i guess.  

Alot of people agree with that in theory but when it comes to their own life if you really look closely they depend upon the government. For alot of things. So they are just delusional in their idea that bitcoin is their hill to die on with respect to being independent of the government...

if you're not like 99.99% of the people out there that depend on the government and expect the government to pay you social security when you get old then maybe you're different.

Huh, that's pretty unexpected. The idea is... interesting, but considering that gold is physical and money on a debit card is digital, I'd be concerned about how real it truly is. With Bitcoin, we know it's real because it's impossible to fake Bitcoin by design. But with gold, it feels like there's a reliance on the company actually taking real gold that is worth the amount a person deposited. So there's centralization, and there's a need for trust.
To me, it sounds more like a bill promoted by lobbyists who don't want to pay taxes on their precious metals profits.

this is not an innovative project, since there are several digital gold companies that offer similar features where users can deposit whatever amount they want and later they will get digital gold in their account and they can use that gold for transactions via the debit card provided. by the company.

this idea is actually quite good, where users can transact with precious metals, but the problem is that you only get gold which is represented in digital form on your account, you don't get real assets. you don't know whether the assets are genuine or not, and whether the company will continue to operate in the future or not.

i myself am not very interested in this idea, where i entrust my money to a third party who is not very credible. it's better to use bitcoin or fiat, because it's easier, faster. and secure.

The moment I saw Murphy I though of Murphy's laws:
'If something can go wrong, it will!"

Anyhow, you should mention that he's a state district representative, so one in 10 thousands, his "backing" is a drop in the ocean!


So if the govemermnt has never missed a payment and will never miss a payment then why should we care about this at all?
What would be the difference between having bits of gold that you can spend guaranteed by the govemermnt and bits of dollars also guaranteed by the government that you an already spend right now?


Hmm, really?


cause it seems the only time we had real inflation in the US since 1981 gold totally flopped it's mission!

.

Using gold or Bitcoin for everyday transactions would be cool but you're right that it won't fly unless everyone's on board. Both buyers and sellers need to be into it plus if the government doesn't give it a thumbs up, it's like playing solo. Bitcoin's more of a hodling thing than a spend-it vibe and for these alternatives to hit the mainstream, governments need to have a say that its all good. Otherwise it's just sitting on the sidelines

Bitcoin has more benefits than just being a means of payment. Many people use Bitcoin because it promotes privacy. They want to live private lives void of government surveillance and control. So there will be always a demand for Bitcoin due to its decentralized nature.

The government might be more reliable than exchanges but I don't also trust the government. It is better to keep my money and use it the ways I want them to put it in the hands fo the government. The government can decide to freeze your funds by giving different unreasonable reasons.

The idea of using gold to pay for goods and services sounds very interesting, unfortunately we can't carry it around in our pockets, also holding it's ATM that you can use to make purchases is equally interesting. For it's usage to be effective, it has to be widely used and accepted by both buyers and sellers, and I guess that'll be possible if governments adopt it as an alternative means of payments in their countries, that it can be widely used by people in their country. For instance Bitcoin that it's adoption is increasing everyday is rarely used for payments, it's basically to hodle for investment purposes, so for both Bitcoin or gold currencies to be effectively used to pay for goods and services, in a country, it's government will have to adopt either of them first.

binance is not government run. and binance is not a depository. i haven't heard of the government missing social security or food stamp payments. so they could run a depository. that's what that guy is trying to get the kansas state government to do.

everything is an IOU. it just comes down to how much trust you have in the guarantor. even bitcoin is an IOU since your little private key is just an IOU from the bitcoin network. if it went down so does your bitcoin.

i'm not talking about switzerland. i'm talking about the usa. did you even read the article? take a look:

"We're the first to be moving forward through the committee process," Murphy said. "Florida, Utah, Texas, Oklahoma's working on one, Tennessee's working on one. I think eleven states have made gold and silver legal tender. That mostly is a tax issue, because gold and silver typically is considered property. If you sell it, you get gains. It also becomes taxable for property tax and things like that. When you make it legal tender, that takes that off. You can't take a gold coin or a silver coin in to buy groceries or gas or whatever like that. The idea behind this is, there's new technology that has come around in the last five years that allows us to have a depository."

That was the whole point of why he wants it in Kansas and so he can stop using the one in switzerland. so he won't have to pay capital gains tax for using gold like it was meant to be as money. and a store of value without being punished for doing so...

bitcoin is not free from anything not in the usa. anytime you selll any bitcoin it has to be reported to the IRS and if any gains was made you have to pay taxes on it, no matter how small. maybe you didn't realize that. but that's the truth.

that's correct and nothing fits the bill better than gold. maybe silver. maybe platinum. but i like gold the best.

i disagree. not if the government runs it. traditionally gold has huge carrying costs due to storage by third party companies. but i think if the government ran a depository they would make it affordable to actually use gold as legal tender. maybe they could print paper bills backed by gold and people could use those. but the faces values would be in grams of gold not in us dollars and when they checkout, the register would convert that paper bill into us dollars using the current exchange rate.

but how do you audit the government? you really can't. you can't audit them. you can look at the reports they issue and believe them or not. do you believe the national debt they report? do you believe what they say the annual budget is? then why not believe them about how much gold they have? if not then keep your money in a bank where you can trust them to bail out the bank if its FDIC insured, i guess!



for some reason people seems to think the usa government did a gold scam or something. all they did is took the paper money off the gold standard. but they never tried to cover up how much gold they actually had and ran some type of ponzi scheme with the gold, printing more paper money than they had in gold reserves...so i see no reason to not trust them if they ran a depository so people could make debit card purchases with their gold.

Funds are SAFU, why people still choose air gapped wallet or hardware wallet when Binance can make sure it's customers the funds are safe?

If you didn't get the real asset when you buy something, you've bought an IOU and there's no guarantee you can able to withdraw your asset when you need a third party to get it.

Wrong, gold isn't a legal tender in Switzerland, you need to pay capital gains.

And Bitcoin is free from capital gains as long as it's accepted as legal tender, just like in El Salvador.

I believe the idea was to make people able to save in something that aren't affected too much by inflation. But even if those all actually works, I bet there will be a very huge fees. There will be many parties involved, the very basic at least, the company will need to be audited whether they are actually owning the gold or not. There will also be a another party involves when people need to withdraw cash with those card. This is a good idea but will not be affordable.

There is no guarantee that real gold will be purchased, as if there is a demand, for example, for 10 kilograms of gold, you will need to wait for several days before purchasing it, and there is no confirmation that it was sold for cash, and if there is no guarantee that real gold will be purchased, the guarantee remains the promises and fiat money is based on that.

Why do you need to pay in gold to buy coffee?
Can silver coins be used to purchase products if laws allow it?
There are already cryptocurrencies that claim to have a gold cover, yet Bitcoin outperforms them.

gold is a store of value guys. its an inflation hedge just like bitcoin. but its downside is you can't use it as a payment mechanism easily if at all. alot of friction there but imagine having a debit card backed by the gold and a trustworthy depository that would be amazing...then you could invest in gold and use it for everyday things and not have to pay capital gains tax when you did that unlike with bitcoin. alot of benefits.

You can't take a gold coin or a silver coin in to buy groceries or gas or whatever like that. The idea behind this is, there's new technology that has come around in the last five years that allows us to have a depository."


Murphy currently uses one overseas, but he'd like to see one in Kansas.

"This is actually working and I actually use it," Murphy said. "There's a depository in Switzerland and there's a company named Glint, that you can get a debit card from them and you buy gold and it goes into the depository. You don't have to buy like an ounce. You don't have to buy any specific amount of gold, you buy it by how much money you want to put in. You can buy as little as one cent worth of gold. If you want to buy five dollars, $20, $100, $ 1 million, whatever, you can do that. That sits in the depository. This is not paper, it's actual gold. Then, when you need to go buy gas, groceries, pay rent, whatever like that, you can use that debit card and it will deduct whatever amount that is."

https://hutchpost.com/posts/46ff49c7-1dd3-4a9b-b59c-d8d0cdb3be3b

If they get this instituted nationwide, you wouldnt need bitcoin. Not really...