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Topic: My argument for why BTC hard forks suppress mainstream adoption. (Read 257 times)

BrewMaster

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Quote from: pat4cryptoreal on November 20, 2018, 01:33:41 AM

From my little understanding the hard fork was meant to relieve bitcoin of some load and enable transaction speed. The purpose of the hard fork was not for the new coin to replace bitcoin.

"hard fork" is meant to do that. but this fork that we are talking about did no such thing. the "hard fork" that you have in mind is more like an upgrade. this fork that OP is talking about is a way of creating a new altcoin by copying the code and the block history. and its purpose was to take over bitcoin and gain power by having full control over everything including price, network, development,...

it failed to do that but it is still harming bitcoin.

pat4cryptoreal

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From my little understanding the hard fork was meant to relieve bitcoin of some load and enable transaction speed. The purpose of the hard fork was not for the new coin to replace bitcoin.

franky1

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the only reasons a fork suppresses adoption is that instead of 1000's of developers and businesses concentrating on one coin. they get diluted down to less concentrating on one network

imagine if coinbase, circle, bitpay concentrated all its efforts on promoting bitcoin adoption, instead of multicoin adoption
imagine all the exchanges that didnt just add random altcoin every week
imagine VC funding concentrated at multiple teams, businesses that only concentrate on bitcoin

but thats in a utopia where most devs actually innovate if they were to concentrate on one network...
rather than herd sheep into different fields (develop and promote different networks) where better grass is promised. but turn to mud within a short period

many countries around the world i have seen, look at bitcoin. see its initial promise of 2009-2013 and then see the situation of today. and decide its easier, cheaper and better to just play with an altcoin than to try to fight off all the lobbying of centralisation happening in bitcoin

pretty much its a spiral. making it harder to get into bitcoin. newbies to use something else. newbies try something else thus not expand bitcoin.. then old bitcoiners that were using bitcoin decide to also join the 'something else' thus less use bitcoin

BuyBuyBitcoin

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Quote from: acarli on November 19, 2018, 10:00:03 PM

Quote from: gentlemand on November 19, 2018, 06:05:47 PM

Bitcoin itself has never hard forked. The more alts that do fork off it and prove to be a worthless heap of shit the stronger its position becomes. It's like ants crawling across the back of a rhino. Everyone knows what the real deal is.

I agree BTC is king. I'm 100% down with that. At the same time, pretty much everyone agrees that there have been forks of BTC.

Why would anyone disagree that it's forked many times? Forks haven't made Bitcoin less valuable, it added value to bitcoin holder's that traded the fork coins for BITCOIN. Litecoin was a fork of bitcoin, it's part of the payment solution being built on layer 2 of bitcoin. The forked coins can't use layer 2 and 3 solutions (or the side chains) being worked on for bitcoin because they're changing the protocol after forking....

Quote from: acarli on November 19, 2018, 10:00:03 PM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on November 19, 2018, 07:38:27 PM

Although ETH is traded against many altcoins, it isn't really a currency. It's a platform. And as noted, it is also a hard fork of the original Ethereum, with ETC being the original.

True, but that's the beauty of ETH a store of value + smart contract. Wasn't Satoshi's original scope of bitcoin include smart-contract like features as well? I looked for the article I once read that refers to that, but I could not find it.

Smart contracts would clog up the blockchain with crap that isn't transferring stored value between wallets. That's all bitcoin does, securely stores and transfers value. It doesn't need cryptokitties to launch and clog the transfers up with a stupid game. People want their transactions to go through securely, easily and always faster.

Quote from: acarli on November 19, 2018, 10:00:03 PM

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on November 19, 2018, 07:38:27 PM

Did people genuinely think this?

Sure, look at bitcoin.com . Major articles and interviews all over the place when BCH forked. My 80 year old neighbor who has a lot of BTC even started to migrate towards BCH.

Tell him you're on BCH too now, that way doesn't hit you up for money when he goes broke.

Nobody with a brain goes to the lower value forked chain and "hopes" it's going to become more valuable. This isn't gambling or rocket science....they have less developers and less adopters of the coin...they spend bitcoin to keep their fork alive.... and it just forked again.... none of this is BAD for bitcoin. Bitcoin is just sitting there storing value and transferring it securely like it always has.

pooya87

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the only problem i see is that people forgot what consensus means and also many of them have been blinded by greed and wanted the extra money that a fork-coin could give them without thinking what bitcoin really stands for.
as you can see from dozens of forked coins from bitcoin (such as bitcoin-gold, bitcoin-private,...) you can clearly see that what a shitcoin looks like. but bitcoin-cash was different because it made the most noise and people could make the most profit so they let it grow bigger than a shitcoin usually does. and now they are seeing the consequences.

with all that said, this is not a bitcoin problem. this is yet another form of attack against bitcoin which is new. bitcoin only becomes stronger as it is attacked more and with new methods. so in the end this can be a good thing. it may even help people realize the true intentions of those who created BCH.

Quote from: acarli on November 19, 2018, 05:10:54 PM

Maybe Ethereum has a better shot at solving the scaling issue.

sometimes some problems aren't solvable when the problem becomes too big and out of hand. and that is how ETH is currently is. it is way too broken to be fixed.
their only option is to admit their centralization and end up going full centralized with data centers to solve their issue.

Kakmakr

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I agree to some degree that a hard fork and FREE coins are not the way to go. A hard fork dilutes the overall value of Crypto currencies by adding "wealth" from zero effort. The latest trend seems to be to force a fork, when new money needs to be injected into the coin.

Take the latest Bitcoin Cash fork as an example, because people sold BTC prior to the Bitcoin Cash hard fork to put them in a better position to get more free coins after the fork. They could have sold the FREE coins to buy BTC again or they could just keep the FREE coins as an new investment.

squatter

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Re: My argument for why BTC hard forks suppress mainstream adoption.

November 20, 2018, 12:09:42 AM

#5

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on November 19, 2018, 07:38:27 PM
Although ETH is traded against many altcoins, it isn't really a currency. It's a platform. And as noted, it is also a hard fork of the original Ethereum, with ETC being the original.

According to that rationale, Ethereum Classic isn't the original network either -- the original network is dead. The Homestead hard fork took place in March 2016, well before the DAO fork. Ethereum Classic has also had multiple hard forks since the DAO fork occurred.

Quote from: acarli on November 19, 2018, 05:10:54 PM
All of these hard forks somehow dilute the confidence in BTC. I can't quite explain it, but that's what it feels like.

The fact is, no one can stop people from hard forking Bitcoin. We're talking about permissionless, decentralized protocols. It just takes time for the market to realize how little value most (or all) of the forks have. That's the free market for ya.

acarli

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Re: My argument for why BTC hard forks suppress mainstream adoption.

November 19, 2018, 10:00:03 PM

#4

Quote from: gentlemand on November 19, 2018, 06:05:47 PM
Um, you do realise ETH is a hard fork of... ETH, right? ETC is the unaltered and uncompromised ETH.
Ah yes, forgot about that. When I first bought Ethereum it already forked from the "classic". Personally, I disagree with the forking to restore ETH (DOA?). There goes censorship-resistance for ETH.

Quote from: gentlemand on November 19, 2018, 06:05:47 PM
Bitcoin itself has never hard forked. The more alts that do fork off it and prove to be a worthless heap of shit the stronger its position becomes. It's like ants crawling across the back of a rhino. Everyone knows what the real deal is.

I agree BTC is king. I'm 100% down with that. At the same time, pretty much everyone agrees that there have been forks of BTC.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on November 19, 2018, 07:38:27 PM
Although ETH is traded against many altcoins, it isn't really a currency. It's a platform. And as noted, it is also a hard fork of the original Ethereum, with ETC being the original.

True, but that's the beauty of ETH a store of value + smart contract. Wasn't Satoshi's original scope of bitcoin include smart-contract like features as well? I looked for the article I once read that refers to that, but I could not find it.

Quote from: o_e_l_e_o on November 19, 2018, 07:38:27 PM
Did people genuinely think this?
Sure, look at bitcoin.com . Major articles and interviews all over the place when BCH forked. My 80 year old neighbor who has a lot of BTC even started to migrate towards BCH.

o_e_l_e_o

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Re: My argument for why BTC hard forks suppress mainstream adoption.

November 19, 2018, 07:38:27 PM

#3

Quote from: acarli on November 19, 2018, 05:10:54 PM
Then I found Ethereum. ETH opened up new ideas of what money could do.

Although ETH is traded against many altcoins, it isn't really a currency. It's a platform. And as noted, it is also a hard fork of the original Ethereum, with ETC being the original.

Quote from: acarli on November 19, 2018, 05:10:54 PM
Then the BTC hard fork came along all of a sudden bitcoin Cash was going to "replace" BTC.

Did people genuinely think this? It was all nonsense spread by the usual BCH scammers. Forks of BTC had been taken many times before, and have been taken many times since. Some forks like Gold or Diamond die quickly. Some, like BCH, hang around a bit longer, but the outcome is always the same - the forks die, and BTC remains in top spot.

More forks of BTC will happen in the future. My advice is always the same - either ignore them, or (if safe to do so, replay protection, etc.) claim your free coins and immediately sell them for more BTC before they dump, as they always do.

gentlemand

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Re: My argument for why BTC hard forks suppress mainstream adoption.

November 19, 2018, 06:05:47 PM

#2

Um, you do realise ETH is a hard fork of... ETH, right? ETC is the unaltered and uncompromised ETH.

Bitcoin itself has never hard forked. The more alts that do fork off it and prove to be a worthless heap of shit the stronger its position becomes. It's like ants crawling across the back of a rhino. Everyone knows what the real deal is.

acarli

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Re: My argument for why BTC hard forks suppress mainstream adoption.

November 19, 2018, 05:10:54 PM

#1

I was in total love with bitcoin and the blockchain. Not for money, but a real understanding of how disruptive BTC could potentially be. Then I found Ethereum. ETH opened up new ideas of what money could do. Then the BTC hard fork came along all of a sudden bitcoin Cash was going to "replace" BTC. My reaction was .. wtf! Remember, I was a die-hard BTC lover. My confidence was shaken and got me thinking about how the hard fork will dilute the perception of value between BTC and BTH. I think that was the beginning of the current downturn IMO.

Then BTC Diamond, XT, Classic, unlimited, Gold, Private, ABC.

Here's a list of all of them so far.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_bitcoin_forks

I realize changing the existing BTC blockchain is slow, and needs to adapt. What's a solution? Maybe Ethereum has a better shot at solving the scaling issue.

All of these hard forks somehow dilute the confidence in BTC. I can't quite explain it, but that's what it feels like.