Topic: My new garage and 200 amps (Read 3083 times)

As a point of clarity the 6-30R male you ask about is technically a 6-30P

A 6-30P will not plug directly into an L6-30R, but you can easily buy/make an adapter cable that is 6-30R to L6-30P which would allow you to plug a 6-30P plug into an L6-30R receptacle.  The cord cap can easily be swap on any device as can just the receptacle if you don't want to buy or make an adapter cable.

Just to be clear, when you refer to a cheaper 20A receptacle vs a more expensive 30A receptacle, you are referring to a 20A 120V receptacle vs a 30A 240V receptacle right? I just want to be sure, because there are 20A 240V receptacles also.

Will a 6-30R male fit into a L6-30R or the reverse or are they mutually exclusive? If at all possible I would like to choose a connector that I can power a pdu, power a future electric car, power a table saw, power a welder, and (just for the heck of it) power a kiln (obviously not all at the same time ). Basically I would like to future proof as much as possible.

Haha, this is awesome, you guys read my mind. This is a pre-con house so I was there when they installed the hvac system, and I asked a lot of questions. My plan is to funnel the heat from the miners into the main return. But I've got to power them first.

First off, wow, you guys are awesome. I expected a couple of answers, and you guys have just run with it, this is awesome.

Bad news, I had the meeting with the electrician and I overlooked something with the heavy-up (upgrade from 200A to 400A service), apparently the wire in the ground outside my house can handle 400A, but the wire from my meter to my breaker box is only rated for 180A. $1000 to run a new wire or replace that one. So yea no. Maybe later.

I'm still putting more outlets in, it just wont be 26000watts. I'm assuming my max right now will be 30 s3s, or 12kw or 100A. I'll be confirming either way with BGE and will update.


BGE said if I went over that number there could be faults in the line in the ground outside my house. I never got around to asking them how bad a fault was? Like was "fault" code for melted wire (or rather you are now paying to repair the wire in the ground), or just a simple flipped ciruit breaker/slap on the wrist.

BGE told me 26000 watts when I gave them the following figures. "Servers" = Miners. They told me I could add 65 "Servers" onto my normal load. I reverse calculated the 26kw from that. None of this matters, now I just stay under 180A. They told me they had calculated the 65 "servers" by taking my base load, subtracting from some max number (they wouldnt tell me this number for some reason), and then dividing by 400w I had told them the servers run at.
                      old               new
Refrigerator      2000w            2000w                         
Microwave       1100w            1100w
Dishwasher    2400w              2400w
Washer          500w               500w
AC unit          4500w             4500w
lights             10w x12         10w x12

The above items are not continuous draw, but random and sporadic.
These items are continuous draw, so if you wanted the yearly usage simply multiple by hours in day and then days in year.
                      old              new               want
Computers      700w
Servers           400w x10      400w x30     400w x100

You don't change the infrastructure of a continent that easy. and .. the U.S. was way out front in putting electric power technology to practical use. In the early days, lower voltages were the most practical for electric lights — higher voltages burned out the bulbs. So the hundreds of power plants built in the U.S. prior to 1900 adopted 110 volts (or 115 or 120 volts) as their de facto standard. Starting in Germany around the turn of the century, people adopted the 220-volt (or 230- or 240-volt) standard, mostly because it's easier to transport this way and they had the technology to build better bulbs at the time.

Check the ratings on whatever model you're looking at, but they should be fine.

I have some Dells that are rated to 240v but they're running at 252v.

usa still using it if i'm not mistaken, and i don't know why they are so stubborn to use a non-efficient thing

I know these datacenter PDUs are suppose to be feed 208V but if we feed them 240V will they still work and work without failure?

Only if you capture the heated (with a range hood / box and suction fans) air and feed it into your furnace inlet to be filtered and humidified .. else it's not that funny to run your rig in the living room because of the eventual noise.

Is there any feasible way to reuse the heat to save on oil/gas/water heaters?

Boordally, Could you clarify what you mean by “I can use 26000 watts”? I also get my home service from BGE. Are you saying you can use up to 26000 watts before they come knocking on your door?

26kW sounds awesome for mining - assuming you know how to cool it all down.
I have hard times dealing with 3kW of heat in a large basement.

I'd chime in with the others here, and say just go with a bunch of L6-30A outlets. PDUs are dirt cheap, even fancier ones.

I use these, and other than the control being RS-232 instead of Ethernet, I love them.
http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_sacat=0&_nkw=pm10i-30a&_sop=15&_clu=2&_fcid=1&_localstpos=21203&_stpos=21203&gbr=1&_trksid=p2045573.m339&_trksid=p2045573.m339

If you're unsure on how long you want to run the gear, consider getting a PDU whip with conduit; StayOnline will sell you a prewired one that includes the receptacle and box prewired in flexible conduit. You can then run it on the surface instead of in the wall, and if you decide to remove your massive farm you can always move the whips around without touching the box, or remove them and sell them.
http://www.stayonline.com/nema-locking-blade-pdu-whips.aspx

So, a tiny bit more research on PDU's taught me that the plug *tends* to be matched to the rating of the PDU.  So if you have 30A circuits and they install an L6-30R recepticle, and you buy a 30A rated PDU, you should be good to go.  Just make sure you do your own math so as to not overload the circuit, as a 30A PDU will have around a dozen outlets, and people going through this effort tend to run multiple miners per PSU, resulting in a whole lot more than 2.5A per PSU, even at 240V.

I'm quite certain DaT is well aware of what "DIY" miners get up to  

And if they're loading up their PSUs to that limit, they're likely to just use at 15% de-rated instead of 20% and load 4 outlets at 1,500W.  But they're likely not using 1500W at the wall draw, so this is really a non-issue.


Precisely.  Arguments can be made for any side; personally I prefer switched PDUs on 30A drops.

You might be surprised what DIY mining pushes users into. 5760W equals less than 4 x 1500w at the wall .. so you'll use only 3 outlets at max from the strip leaving about 1.2kW spare.. With all those C13 outlets available on the PDU one may think they're good to draw more, when in fact they should be taped out. With 20A circuits to have less spare (about 840W).

Anyway, all setups are good as long as the end user monitors the currents and size their stuff so that they don't burn their house down. I like the 240V setups because they load the two 180 degree phases equally and you don't lose much having an unbalanced system.

Correction.  120V and 240V circuits use the same wiring.  Wire gauge is based on current not voltage.


As a heads up most electricians that do residential work are more familiar with straight connectors but most PDUs use locking connectors.  Make sure they understand you will need an outlet with a locking connector if that is the plug your PDU uses.   For example a NEMA L6-30R not a NEMA 6-30R.  The L indicates locking connector.


By code on continual loads, the current should be 20% lower when than the nameplate rating.  So 24A or 5,760W on a 30A PDU.

Well nobody runs a 1200W PSU @ 1200W of load.  30A is good for 5760W (after 20% derate).   30A PDU are dirt cheap if you are willing to buy used.   Datacenters go through tens of thousands of these so there is never ending supply.



AP9571 is one example but there are plenty of other models which work equally well.  New ones are $150+ but used ones tend to go for $30 to $50 each.  A basic PDU is pretty much a high current power strip with a breaker.  It pretty much works or it doesn't so I have never had a problem buying used.

You will need to install* a 30A double pole breaker and NEMA L6-30R outlet for each one.  The AP9571 comes prewired with a matching NEMA L6-30P plug.  By the NEC, continual loads are derated 20% so you only get 24A usable from a 30A branch circuit.  One circuit (breaker, branch wiring, outlet, pdu) is good for 5.76KW (240V * 30A * 80%) which is probably more than most people can handle.  Remember electricity in = heat out.   So for those with dreams of building 100KW farms I would say start "small" you can build out in 5.76KW segments.  Even 5.76KW is a lot of heat.


* I can be done DIY, I put two in so I could power a 11KW GPU farm but this isn't a beginner project.  Remember electricity kills instantly and without warning.  Parts on the inside of the circuit breaker panel may remain energized with lethal voltage even if breakers are off.  It isn't a nuclear reactor but it does require some competence and good tools never hurt.

I'm in the process of adding a 240v/30A line to my garage (but for an electric car), when I find out how much it costs, I'll post the info.

-You can't use the same outlets, the wiring has to be a higher gauge to handle the increased voltage.
-They'll need to install a 30A circuit into you panel. If you panel is ancient, it's possible they may need to replace your panel for fire safety.

In short, for miners, this is the same as adding miners to a datacenter. You'll need a PDU that has the C13 outlets to plug your miners into. I recommend tripplite, PDUMV30HV.
You also have to replace your power supply power cables with a C13/C14 cables, which cost $1.60 at monoprice (item 6329). 
Check to make sure your power supplies can handle the extra voltage, just look on the PS label, it usually says what in the input voltage limits are.
The nice thing is that on the higher voltage, you'll pull less amps, so you can put more miners on the circuit, but you need 15% reserved or you'll throw the 30A breaker.

30A circuits limit your PSU at 3x 1200W (7..8A - 1500W each at the wall) power supplies per circuit in continuous load. I'd rather go with multiple receptacles of 20A (good enough for 2 power supplies each), and not using those expensive PDUs.

Overall is cheaper.

I think he was writing it as 208V/240V because it is the same exact connectors for 208V single phase and 240V.  Same wiring configuration, same plugs, same outlets, same PDUs, etc.  Never seen a PDU that didn't work on both 208V and 240V.  All the components have to be rated to 240V anyways or they would be a code violation.   

You don't get 208V with a normal residential service. 208V is one leg of a 3-phase service .. usually data-center grade.
What you get with a residential service is 250V split phase. That should be good enough for mining, but the data-center PDUs are not rated for it.

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/m.8182756

Have fun!

You're absolutely right... I just didn't want to get into it and confuse the OP by saying, "Well, we really are a 240V split at the center pole into 2 120V lines and a ground in your home".  That just seemed too much, so I stuck with the history lesson on why we've got 120V in our homes

Well US service is 240V.  It is 240V split phase producing 120V between either leg and the ground and 240V between both legs.  There are no 120V mains in the US (or it would be very non-standard and archaic).

This is the fate we suffer for being early adopters.  Back when electric service was new, the higher voltages tended to burn out the lightbulbs too quickly, so the 110/120V standard was adopted for residential power transmission.  By the time engineers figured out how to make stuff that wouldn't burn out with the higher voltages, the US didn't change because there was too much infrastructure already in place.

Only reason is because US households are wired primarily with 120v, and (even if you have a 240v circuit) it can be difficult to get 240v power cables for your PSU's.

Most PDU's have either L6-20p cords though you can find them with the C19/C20 or C14/C15 PSU style plugs.  You can get L6-30 to L6-20 adapters, but they start around $35-$40 each, so if you're going to have an electrician out, I'd have him install L6-20r recepticles right next to your L6-30r's.  Just watch how many amps you put on a circuit at any given time and you'll be fine.  That's usually not a big deal as a 30A circuit can safely handle 30x240 (x80% for continuous load safety factor) 5,760w.  That would easly handle 5xEVGA 1300G2 PSU's running 15xAntminer S3's.

For the same power rating, doesn't 240v takes less current from the mains than 120v? So what is the reason to use a 120v mains ?

You use something like this to power your PSU's:

http://www.buypdu.com/power-cords/iec-c13/iec-c14.html?gclid=CPLX_vTu-78CFWwQ7AodfRcA9w

Depending on the PSUs you are running will determine if you get the 10 or 15 amp version (though in truth, at 208/240v you will only need the 10amp).  The Triplite PDUs are set up to use these cords and will work with any EVGA/OCZ power supply.  A typical PDU can be found here:

http://www.tripplite.com/metered-pdu-30a-208v-240v-2u-c13-c19-outlets-l6-30p-single-phase~PDUMH30HV/

Remember, it's more efficient to use 208/240 versus 120 to power your equipment.

This is exactly what I was looking for, I think. When you say the pc power supply can be run on 240V, are you talking about using the PDUs that others have suggested or something else? I can't plug them directly in as the plug doesnt fit in the Nema L6-30r.

You don't need an electrician. Just buy a Tripplite PDU and appropriate cords for the PSUs for the 240v plug.

Btw, all current, good quality PSUs can take 240v.

Ask your electrician.  He will know what the local codes are and stay within them. 

Five 30A x 208/240V drops terminating with Nema L6-30r  receptacles.  Get Some PDUs to plug into those.  Save
the last 10A of headroom for some huge ass fans. You'll need them.

Why would you want to use 120V?  PC power supplies can run on either.  240V is more efficient, cheaper, and puts less stress/heat on the power supplies.

If I got a new 240v outlet, how would I use it to power my miners. What are my configuration options. Am I limited to power supplies that have 240v plugs (like IBM DPS-2000BB). If you were getting new circuit breakers put in what would you get? Eventually I won't be mining so I would use these outlets for tools (table saws, band saws), do they use 240v outlets?

^^^^  tl,dr   ^^^^

I have a new house and therefore a new garage. I would like to put all my miners in said garage. The circuit breaker panel is already in the garage. I have a meeting tomorrow morning with an electrician. At that time I would like to tell him what outlets I would like.

I've already talked to bge, and I can use 26000 watts. I'm planning to put all of this in the garage. Suggestions on outlets, configurations, my sanity, areas I might have issues. The goal here is safety first, looking normal second (like a heavily decked out tool room, not like Im trying to recreate a tesla experiment). If nothing else, because a year from now, I might not be mining, but I will need tools.

Is there a way to make a 240v outlet, a 120v outlet? I know you can't do the opposite as the wires in the wall would melt, but I would think you could do this? I think I saw a power strip that had 120v sockets, and it plugged into a 240v outlet hence making a 240v outlet a 120v outlet.

If I haven't made it clear, feel free to tell me I'm crazy and that I'm going to burn my house down, just be specific and detailed on the how.