Topic: My Plan (Read 958 times)

Hey, I'm going to mine but a new cryptocurrency like FUTUROCOIN. Do you have any experience with this coin? Until now, I was only thinking about trading but I watched the video on their youtube profile (https://youtu.be/BkjIqNqXmno) and now I think about mining as well. Do you have any advice for the beginners?

for now electricity is very expensive

if you have access to free gas , then you might just sell the power to the electric company. I do not know about the law in your country/city. but in many countries if you access to any sort of power generation asset, be it gas, a river, wind etc, you can build a Power station, connect it to the main network. and get paid as you go.

anyway back to the topic !

let me start by telling you that I am afraid your estimated cost is way off !, excuse my poor English, but if the natural gas you talking about is the same one i know then to get a 60 kva you are talking about 20k++.  now that's the average Chinese thing. while looking for a more robust generator like say CAT then you are looking at 2x-3x the price, or at least the same price for a second hand.

another thing to keep in mind is, all these generators are not meant for 24/7/365 ! . even if it's not mentioned on their product manual, trust me. I know this because I worked for years in a remote area where the nearest power supply was 400km far and we had to use our own generated power mostly from Diesel and Gas generators. 

the second ugly truth is, those things need a lot of maintenance, they are not much different from the once that your electricity provider use. theirs are just much bigger and most likely of much better quality, but even those have to undergo scheduled and unscheduled maintenance.

to sum up this whole thing, i would just let you know that is IMPOSSIBLE to generate free or very cheap power in medium scale. you either go small, like using wind turbine or solar power for a few asics or go big ( Millions if not billions) to create your own infrastructure that will provide you with very cheap electricity.

Not sure if you read through completely. The reason they are looking at the Natural Gas Genset is because they have a tapped well on their land and have free access to the fuel.


Nice I had heard about some people trying to get projects off the ground, or convince some of the producers to invest in these setups. I didn't realize any had gotten off the ground in Canada.

Do you have any details on sites using this setup?

Mining on natural gas is nothing new, just look at Upstream Data they do it on oil wells. www.upstreamdata.ca

Yea, don't host. It not a venture to start unless you have all the capital for logistic setup and liability.

I forget what you said your budget was or hash target but with free power you could grab any unit and power them up. New, cheap hardware is A951, S9i. The T2T 25T is decently priced as well but double the price. You can still find some cheap 841's floating around.

I previously bought 3 741's from MiningBaby. They showed up new and packaged the same as other 741's I received from distributors. You can check their untrusted feedback in their trust to see details.


That makes sense. It is also something to consider for your own risk. I'm guessing though that you figure it will last long enough to ROI your Generator and equipment. Who knows in the long run you might find that an acquaintance or family/friend who decide to jump in. Hosting for these people would be a lot less risk as you could talk with them about the risks beforehand.

My concern is the risk involved. There is effectively no way to test the health of a natural gas well. The pressure and line size can only give you a rough idea. What if I commit to hosting a bunch of miners and a month or two later the well stops producing? What if a generator fails and leads to downtime? What if a weather or other event causes peoples equipment to get destroyed or stolen? There is a lot of liability and risk involved that I do not feel comfortable with offloading to others, with nothing short of hiring a lawyer to draft a contract.

Hosting could be an option but it has a lot of hidden costs and issues.
For me if I could have a nice generator with free fuel I think I would mine before I host.
Or cut a deal with one guy looking to dump his miners.

Let’s say he gets a good 50kwatt generator. And one guy brings him 30 s9is.

The deal they do is 50-50 on the coins mined.

His cost is the 50kwatt generator. He gets the coins from 15 machines.

The s9i guy gets free power for 30 machines and keeps coins from 15 machines.

This could work for op.

The gear will always earn money.

It always matters. Even if you have free natural gas.
Imagine what it would cost to buy a generator with credit and run it for many years compared to the output.
So my question: Whats your cost for one kwh?
And why do you want to start buying rigs? You also can provide hosting for other people.
People with rigs at home paying 10-20cents could send you the rig and you charge them 5cent.
I thought about such rig hosting service for europe, found some nice regions. Best one was kazachstan around 4cent nett.

Since power cost doesn't matter I'd just look at price per unit range you're looking at and efficiencies. I'd have to go back to on the thread but think of you racks how many units per line you can run will help you decide.

If you haven't gotten racks then your fine just figure out your unit model and count.

Also be careful of used units, not that others here are misleading you but a dud on a new venture is a unit that won't ROI.

I have 3 used avalon 841's up for sale

https://bitcointalksearch.org/topic/sold-still-selling-off-most-gear-this-is-a-feeler-for-avalon-841s-still-have-2-5049376

don't go for the t9's

and other sellers have used s9's

this is a good deal below

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bitmain-Antminer-S9-13-5-TH-Bitcoin-SHA-256-Miner-Pre-Owned/202450059173?

and he will give you 10% off if you buy 4

so 4 x 300 = 1200 - 120 = 1080  or 270 each

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Pre-Owned-Antminer-S9i-14TH/302918255154?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bitmain-Antminer-S9-13-5-Th-Bitcoin-Miner/223162578177?

psus good price
https://www.ebay.com/itm/APW3-Bitmain-Antminer-charger-1600W-ships-immediately/232861029655?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Original-AntMiner-APW3-PSU-1600W-Power-Supply-for-Antminer-100V-240V-US-Stock/202402569184?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Bitmain-Power-Supply-Antminer-Bitcoin-APW3-12V/202431849831?

They are legit.

Came across this:

https://pangolinminer.com/product/m3x-2ndh/

Not a clue if they're legit but hope the info helps

Had to read back a little.

Honestly right now you can get 741's for like 20 -50$.

Of the ones I've run they tend to average around 7.8 TH/S.

Realistically with shipping going up based on more units you could grab 4-10 of these right now and get hashing away. And be well ahead. Even grab a few extra in case you need parts, I've only had one board fail in the 12 I've run... and I'm pretty sure it was a heat issue .

I'll look again but I believe it was cryptouniverse that had them on extremely cheap. If you want i can also reach out to a Canadian guy i bought a few off a couple months ago, he got burned with a pricey pallet and held on to them to long.

https://www.cryptouniverse.at/shop/avalonminer-741-up-to-8th-s-august/ new
I look some more in a bit and see if I can find the other listings I had noticed

So with all the release of the new 7 nm miners, anyone else think the price of existing miners on the market plummet? Considering buying cheap miners since the power cost is irrelevant and I can ROI faster on a $280 T9+, hoping they may drop even lower. The building preparations have been made and I am in the process of finalizing my generator selection

Well -- yes. I highly recommend ANY home owner install a permanent backup generator. I did mine around 10 years ago after a massive 2-week long blackout hit lower Michigan/Ohio/Ontario. Last major outage we had was 2 years ago after a huge storm took out a major substation in our area with power out for several days before temporary transformers/switches were installed.

After that one, the electric company did major rebuild of the infra around us and of course now outages are fairly rare but it is still nice to have backup even for the few hours power is out each year.

I meant with the unit you're suggesting they use for this build.

Having a generator would be nice though for blackout.

You mean mod a standard portable home genset to use NG/Propane? No. Why -- because Generac and others already sell them as permanent units and more to the point of this discussion they are not made to run 24x7x365 which is that the OP intends to do.

I have a 13kW permanent NG-fueled genset at home from GE that automatically kicks in after power is out for 15-seconds. Even so, it is a standby unit and requires filter/oil change after 40 hrs of run time. Brush replacement is supposed to be over 120hrs but again, that is a far cry from units designed for Prime-power operations.

Would you modify a home with one NFW?

The problem with that is a 'normal' generator is NOT rated to run 24x7 for weeks/months at a time. Prime-power rated gensets have vastly different lubrication and cooling systems not to mention being far more robustly built than stand-by units are.

I read about that natural gas generator and can tell you that there are ways to modify a normal gasoline generator to run on natural gas. There are ready-made kits available that you can use with your generator and make it connect in the place of of your stove or heater. There are even Youtube videos explaining it and saying that it's cheaper, but you'd have to do the math by yourself.

Just an update and FYI.

Canaan's warranty is 180 days worry free and 2 year limited. At least with current product is what we're told by them.

https://blokforge.com/product/avalon-841/

If you read the product description on the blokforge page it states the 2 year warranty. They do a great job as a distributor. Sometimes the info on the official Canaan page is carried over from previous pages and they forget to update some details.

Edit: You can also find the Blokforge thread here on the forum

Just ask for a quote, can't do you harm to find out what our brokers can offer. Any reseller has worked import fees into their pricing already.

Regardless shop around with the bear market maybe retail sites are liquidating since new hardware in on the horizon.

Ja. I can HIGHLY recommend Blockforge and use for them for all my Avalon and PSU purchases. They also do by-the-pallet orders as well, all shipped from Arizona.

Checkout http://www.criticalpower.com/generators/?orderby=size&order=desc&kw-output=all&fuel-type=natural-gas&mobility=stationary for their offering on both new and used large NG-fueled generators. Many rated as Prime power meaning months of 24x7 operation before routine maint. mainly consisting of consisting of changing filters and refilling the large external engine oil tank.

Can you elaborate why? That is why I am having this discussion, to iron out and potential kinks. I am an electrical engineer by trade so I posses the necessary skills to wire the generator it is simply a matter of sourcing one. This is the only part that would be difficult in my opinion, the rest is just plugging in your miners like any other set up


After hearing what some users suggested here I am considering the Avalons, having the Blockforge distribution is definitely better than dealing with large customs fees and long ship times.

Not really.  I have a friend in Kentucky who is also thinking about do this.  They lease the oil rights on their property and get natural gas as a free by-product.  Not an unlimited amount of course, but easily enough to power a 10-15KW generator.

They are thinking of spending the $2K other neighbors have spent to put in a generator to power their horse farm.

Phillip, can you please provide a link where Canaan says about their 2 year warranty? All i can find is 90 days. Thanks!

Are you in the US? What were you thinking on spending on asics specifically or what unit count where you thinking? I would go with canaan, we can broker a deal pretty easily save some more money. If you're set on T9+ can do that or step up to the T2 or even the s9i/j. Lot's of options lots routes to take and now is time to buy gear.

Edit: now is time to buy gear if you really set on mining.

Nice sounds like a good way to use what you already have access to. Good luck with the project, hopefully you can find a decently priced generator.

I was planning on using a power conditioner, they are pretty affordable and will do the job nicely

he said $15k not $5M...

and if your using generators to power sensitive equipment like computers (avalons) you need AVR's in the mix, however im did sinbensol on a panel backfeed from some petro honda 6500watter and my caputers dint blow up so...

It is off the beaten path, but has internet service available. As far as security goes, I have a trusted relative living in a home on the property who is going to assist with maintaining the generator as that fits his background. He can also preform other basic functions like mailing parts off for warranty or etc as needed. I plan to do all the diagnostics via accessing a remote desktop setup in the mining room. The gas is entirely free, the well has been dug for decades and mineral rights are owned by me. A few miles away is a similar property owned by a relative and she sells her gas line to a gas company that pays her $2k-$3k a month for what they pull out of it. That has been happening for decades.

I also found these by CAT, they might have something that suites your needs as well.

https://www.cat.com/en_US/products/new/power-systems/electric-power-generation/gas-generator-sets.html

Another bonus to the Avalons over other manufacturers at the moment is they don't always require you send your machine to them for repair. There are repair facilities available, but the design of their machines make it easy to diagnose and replace parts yourself. Here is an example of diagnosing and repairs.

posted the link

avalon  gives and honors 2 year warranty

Yeah if you have generators that would be great, I have been having trouble finding anything that isn't a standby generator. Is the longevity of the T9's not very good, is that why you suggest the Avalons?

first off you must have  good generators not bull shit ebay used.

second  if you have free gas  you can only lose money if the gear dies.

So you must buy  avalon 841's  since they give you 2 year warranty.

I had a link for real generators I will get back to you.

https://www.titanpower.com/products/generators/cummins.php
https://www.titanpower.com/downloads/CumminsFullLinePowerSolutionsBrochure%20(2).pdf
https://power.cummins.com/cummins-upgrades-qsv91-gas-series-offer-superior-robustness-and-greater-flexibility

First, you should move this to mining speculation as your requesting opinions. You can move the topic using the button by scrolling down to the bottom left.

I'm wondering what you mean about a source of free unlimited Natural Gas, to power the generator. Someone must be paying for it, but that's for you to handle. Just make sure that if there is a chance you will be footing the bill on this that you are prepared.

As far as machines go, you should still consider going with a more efficient model. This will allow you to put more machines online, thus increasing your mined BTC. I like the 841's - they are efficient, reliable, and are backed by a 2 year warranty. Being from the US, you can order from Blokforge.

The property 8 hours away - Is it secure and out of the way? Can you get a reliable internet source there?

I have developed a plan for starting my first mining operation, and I would like to see if anyone has done anything similar or has any advice or pitfall warnings for me. I own a piece of property located 8 hours away from where I currently live and work. This property has infinite access to free natural gas. It also has access to falling cool mountain water that can either be used in a coolant system or as an alternative power source.

My plan is to build a small shed structure for the mining rigs and purchase a prime power natural gas generator to power the entire assembly. Prices of these generators vary (I cannot find a reliable source of prime power industrial generators, most all I can find are Standby generators which I do not feel will last) as I check eBay but I figure that I can get one in good shape for $2000-$4000 that puts out 30-65 kW.

I then plan to fill the building with X amount of Bitmain T9+'s based off of whatever generator I end up selecting. Reason being, with free power these are much more profitable in the short term due to their extremely low purchase price ($280) and can pay off their own cost and generator cost in 6-8 months.

All in all, for the cost of the generator, power conditioner, building, T9s, cabling and other extremities, and cooling system, I expend to spend about $15k.

Please let me know what you think and if you have any criticisms or suggestions

Thank you