My question about bitcoins economical shift

Kakmakr

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The replacement currency will have it's own value. People will not link a fiat currency to Bitcoin, but would rather demand payment in Bitcoin. Just like trading in the old days, where I traded 4 oranges for 1 peach or 16 shells for a coconut. Grin

This is basically how all countries linked value to currencies. The one person determine the value of his or her item and they request a specific amount of Satoshi for payment and the other person agree or disagree with that valuation. Wink

A new currency was born. Shocked

patarfweefwee

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First of all, i don't think that Fiat can be totally erased in our economy at all. If it does, then we would've already placed a value on products in relation to crypto currency because everyone will be using it and the price of bitcoin or the prevailing crypto currency will be stable like any other. No need to ask what measuring stick we will use to place a value on crypto currency.

magneto

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Quote

Many saing that when the usd will fall the btc can fall too.
But i guess it will be quick down fall for btc and then up again.

But the problem is btc is not backed up by nothing secure.

At least now btc is backed by fiat somehow...and fiat is backed by debt and people are the collateral for debt so.

Btc value comes from just because of limited coins??
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Why would bitcoin fall when USD falls? Bitcoin is not backed by some fiat. These two currencies are not interlinked in any major way, in fact bitcoin is completely independent from the US dollar as opposed to a lot of national currencies.

In fact, I would imagine that if there were indeed hyperinflation in USD alone which is unlikely looking at it right now, or somehow the USD exchange rate plummets which is again, unlikely, then BTC should go up in terms of USD due to the fact that its real value should not change as its supply has not changed, at least noticeably.

You're wrong about bitcoin's value coming from limited coins, though. I believe that similar gold, bitcoin's value derives from its ability to serve as global online currency, and people's trust in it as the first decentralised crypto. This value shouldn't be affected by fiat movement.

really01

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when the currency collapses. gold and precious materials will become common objects for valuing other things. This is similar to the primitive. However, it is almost impossible for all coins to collapse. If that happens, I think Bitcoin is not a safe solution either. By the value of bitcoin is still priced through currency.

junglist.massive

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I think USD isn’t weak now, instead the USD is pressing down other currencies with its strength. Maybe you have heard there are inflation in some world currencies this week caused or exacerbated by the current strength of the USD. The USD users also have very high expectations on the economic growth of the United States.

Dudeperfect

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Since Bitcoin and every other cryptocurrency need the basic knowledge of the user regarding technology but considering the literacy rate across the globe, it's almost impossible that cryptocurrencies replacing fiat currencies anytime in near future. On the other hand, the value is determined by the law of demand and supply irrespective of the value of the currency that we hold in fiat form. That means if the demand for Bitcoin is increasing after 5 years, we will have to pay a certain amount of money such as $50K for per Bitcoin according to the value of that particular fiat currency.

Even today we have to pay 15,45,35,438 Vietnamese dong to acquire 1 Bitcoin and the same Bitcoin can be acquired with the sum of 2,009 Kuwaiti Dinar. That's how the law of demand and supply works and the value is exchanged.

voztata

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 26, 2018, 10:01:12 AM

Quote from: stompix on September 26, 2018, 09:56:04 AM

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 04:39:51 PM

Okay, i was looking the countries wich has the higest debt.
Then i found out debt has something to do with inflation.

Japan has highest debt and suprise surprise why ?

Because they have printed too much money now the inflation is eating the money.

And japan have big bitcoin infrastructure of merchants.
Japan is allready bitcoin friendly country.

What inflation are you talking about?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-economy-inflation/japan-inflation-ticks-up-but-bojs-target-remains-elusive-idUSKCN1M03C6

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 04:39:51 PM

But canada and usa will fall down soon.

Yeah, any minute... don't blink or you might miss it.

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 25, 2018, 07:34:24 AM

As we know bitcoin and whole blockchain is made by secret service and funded by secret service and goverment.
Many here in this forum working together with goverment elite and with secret service.
Many people here are former or even current goverment agents.
So id like to hear what is opinion they have about all of this !!

Triple double layered tin foil hat activated!

Quote from: 1Referee on September 25, 2018, 07:13:30 AM

Quote from: jseverson on September 25, 2018, 04:23:22 AM

A USD collapse, which is the largest reserve currency in the world, would also mean a global economic collapse, and there may be bigger problems to worry about than what to pair BTC with.

People don't realize how serious a collapse scenario will be because they just read something on the internet, think it will increase Bitcoin's value and thus it's a great opportunity for those looking to sell high, they then echo it across a wide variety of platforms, and there you have it, even more noobs thinking that the US dollar is nearing its last days. It's mind boggling how weak minded some people are. If the US dollar goes down, we all go down with it, lol.

Bitcoin's value at that point being $1,000,000 will represent a value of $10,000 today. If Bitcoin needs devaluing fiat currencies to artificially increase significantly, it's pretty pathetic if you ask me. Be careful what you wish for peeps, it will work against you.

All those that are cheering for a collapse of the USD will be the first one running in the streets banging their heads on every pole and asking God why this happened!!!

If the US collapse in a small timeframe (1 week or ) we're all rekt! China Japan Germany Somalia it doesn't matter, the last time the US economy sneezed millions lost their jobs even f they couldn't even point where the US was on a map.

What is BTC or any other crypto going to do for all those? Are they going to turn to bounty hunting on bitcointalk and doing work here? Grin

Seriously, some people are thinking and acting like children.

Your answer here shows exacly who you are !!

But what the usd will do about high debt now ?
They just keep going ?

Lets not get excited THAT much for bitcoin. Yes it has a big place and in countries like Venezuela and turkey and back in the day crypus people went to bitcoin for help from their own fiat having troubles but thinking bitcoin will be the base currency for WHOLE WORLD is just a dream that will not happen.

Are you suggesting bitcoin that has no regulations and no central place that could be controlled by governments will become base currency for the people of the world to spend? Or do you mean governments will start accepting it? Because they won't. Best case they can start their own tokens and coins so they can use it but also control it.

timerland

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

Bitcoin value simply isn't just calculated. It does not work like that.

Since it's decentralized its value completely depends on market forces to be determined. You thinking that tether is the basis of BTC valuation is definitely wrong. Tether is completely separate from bitcoin and is centralized, pegged to USD value.

If USD or other major fiat currencies were to inflate drastically, then no doubt BTC price would rise to coincide with that simply because the supply of BTC can't be manipulated and debased. We've already seen this in countries like Argetina and Iran where price of BTC has gone up in local currency terms despite falling BTC prices.

BartS

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

If the dollar disappeared and all other fiat currencies disappeared as well then people will need to do price discovery by other means and if people choose bitcoin then bitcoin will become the point of reference for which all things are priced, bitcoin will no longer have a point of reference like the dollar now it will be the point of reference and so every single product, stock, service and other currencies are going to be priced in bitcoin similar to what happens already with altcoins.

Ridwan Fauzi

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

Bitcoin prices are calculated purely based on supply and demand. And should be remembered bitcoin is a virtual currency that is not regulated by one country or one party, so as if there, let's say the United States is experiencing inflation then this incident will not have an impact on the price of bitcoin. Once again I will say only supply and demand will affect the movement of bitcoin prices, as well as the movement of altcoin prices.

However, if someone asks, can the cryptocurrency experience inflation? I will say yes just for altcoin, but for bitcoin I can answer it will not experience inflation. Many sources were said bitcoin is in a setting to experience deflation cause a limited amount will make bitcoin continue to experience demand so as it will make the price high. While many altcoins do not have a limited amount, and easy mining methods as anyone can do this, so can cause inflation.

sublime5447

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in my opinion the USD is not currently in a weak state, instead the USD is pressing another currency with its strength. maybe you have heard this week about inflation experienced by some world currencies triggered or exacerbated by the recent strength of the USD. the holders of USD also still have very high expectations on the economic growth of the United States.

senin

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I do not see any problems with the crypto currency, if the dollar will fall in price. Crypto currency is, the most volatile, its value is adjusted every minute. If the dollar falls in price, the Crypto currency will automatically increase in price. The USDT coin will always be equal to one dollar regardless of what its rate will be.

stompix

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 26, 2018, 10:01:12 AM

Quote from: stompix on September 26, 2018, 09:56:04 AM

Your answer here shows exacly who you are !!

But what the usd will do about high debt now ?
They just keep going ?

Yup, it definitely shows since it's my answer Wink

I'm really tired of all this USA is going to collapse the dollar will be toilet paper.
It's going to happen for certain at one point in history but I'm just fed up with this.

For 10 years during my adolescence, I've been hearing only this from the communist propaganda, every day was the last of the decadent west, then in the 90's China was going to surpass the US, the yuan would replace the dollar, yet, 30 years and nothing. I've never touched or dealt with any yuan.

Then we had the crisis in the late 90's and the one in 2007, the US was done for the $ would be worthless....and here we are 2018, and the collapse is still as it was half a century ago... imminent.

Seriously, you're waiting for something that might not happen in our lifetime.

rickadone

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Quote from: Menawi12 on September 27, 2018, 07:49:14 PM

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

If US Dollar drop the value, holder must be convert it to others investment or bitcoin. And if more people converting their USD to bitcoin, demand on bitcoin will increasing and the price will going up too.
I am believe it will happen soon if we saw on fundamental analysis, US government debt very high and almost on their ceiling, it will make USD collapse

We can even see the economic shift already happening globally. We all know how the US economy that has been dominant slipping down the growth ranking, with less influence daily over the global economy.

Now, in the case of bitcoin, we would peradventure see people preferring to use a currency that would actually give them ease, give them access to a better way of doing things with enough freedom and with this thing in place, we will see power shifting gradually from some currencies that has become a global power due to the level of demand for them. Nevertheless, it would be hard to see the government want to give up control anyway.

OpenCryptoSystem

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If its not collapse yet... then we gona see high taxing
High taxes can keep this economical ponzi scheme alive.

But offcourse the top leaders will have to eat people from lower levels because assets are allready taken from poor and middle class... now there is no more money supply.

It means money circlelarion must be even faster now in order to make this economical ponzi to survive little bit

Its ponzi and all ponzi is going to collapse one day.
But the rich have first rescue plan ready just for them 100%.

This is how it is.

Ranly123

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

Even with the collapsing of dollars Bitcoin will still be in a revolution where it would never be affected by the inflation of the real world currency. Bitcoin is calculated through the demand of investors and with the limited supply, there is a bigger chance that it's price would go high.

Ewinsane

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Quote from: Ucy on September 27, 2018, 09:46:00 AM

What an Interesting question.
My guess is that is Bitcoin will be used as Base Currency. The Cryptocurrency value will be measured against goods, services and other Cryptocurrencies and things will be determined by Inflation or deflation of Crypto, goods and services against the base Cryptocurrency. I think the base currency has to be somewhat stable to avoid confusion.

If for example i sell five hundred barrels of oil for 1Bitcoin today and next month I sell it 2bitcoin, we will conclude that this happened because:
* Bitcoin decreased in value?
OR
* The Oil price was pushed up by demand and supply a against stable Bitcoin?

Economical shift! That is one discussion that would still keep lingering on and on until we start seeing how things would happen in reality in the long run.

I can really relate with what you have said, but the possibilities of seeing a cryptocurrency becoming a base currency in a particular country or globally is something that would be hard to come by, unless of course it is centralized and at the end with centralization, we are still stuck with the same system anyway.

Nonetheless, it is still a good approach to things since there will be transparency and value will be based on the things you have mentioned and not just some unnecessary controls.

awik p

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Quote from: 0t3p0t on September 28, 2018, 01:13:25 AM

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

For me I think if that will happen in the near future Bitcoin will be the base currency that will possibly be used for Altcoins as it is the king and it also has dominated the market. Bitcoin's value during that time will possibly sky rocket to the moon and it could possibly be known to be used mostly in transaction all over the world as you have said if fiat collapse and only virtual currency is the only choice.

i think to replace fiat is still long, even very long, but this possibility can occur, because development of the times will continue and bitcoin is the latest innovation in the world of transactions

0t3p0t

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

For me I think if that will happen in the near future Bitcoin will be the base currency that will possibly be used for Altcoins as it is the king and it also has dominated the market. Bitcoin's value during that time will possibly sky rocket to the moon and it could possibly be known to be used mostly in transaction all over the world as you have said if fiat collapse and only virtual currency is the only choice.

efxtrader

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

As far i know, USDT pegged with USD fiat. If USDT fall, i think its mean bitcoin price will increase againts USDT. USDT is stable coin and always worth 1USD, different with bitcoin, the price always fluctuating

gambitcoin53

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

economics 101, if the demand is high the supply will decrease therefore will result to high prices of supplies, if ever fiats will no longer be at use and replaced by bitcoin which is by the way, impossible to happen at least now, the demand for bitcoin will increase, resulting to high price on the market, just like dollar, when it was made as the universal currency, and become widely and internationally accept, the value of dollars has a remarkable value hike, replace dollar with any currency that will be widely use and that currency will have the same high value as dollars.

Menawi12

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

If US Dollar drop the value, holder must be convert it to others investment or bitcoin. And if more people converting their USD to bitcoin, demand on bitcoin will increasing and the price will going up too.
I am believe it will happen soon if we saw on fundamental analysis, US government debt very high and almost on their ceiling, it will make USD collapse

ucingucingan

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I will answer your last question, will Tether (USDT) drop when the dollar price drops? yes because as I know that the Tether (USDT) price is influenced by dollar prices, because this crypto currency was created is a combination of crypto currency and fiat currency (dollars)

OpenCryptoSystem

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Quote from: Ucy on September 27, 2018, 09:46:00 AM

What an Interesting question.
My guess is that is Bitcoin will be used as Base Currency. The Cryptocurrency value will be measured against goods, services and other Cryptocurrencies and things will be determined by Inflation or deflation of Crypto, goods and services against the base Cryptocurrency. I think the base currency has to be somewhat stable to avoid confusion.

If for example i sell five hundred barrels of oil for 1Bitcoin today and next month I sell it 2bitcoin, we will conclude that this happened because:
* Bitcoin decreased in value?
OR
* The Oil price was pushed up by demand and supply a against stable Bitcoin?

Thanks !!
I think its very interesting question.

Ucy

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What an Interesting question.
My guess is that is Bitcoin will be used as Base Currency. The Cryptocurrency value will be measured against goods, services and other Cryptocurrencies and things will be determined by Inflation or deflation of Crypto, goods and services against the base Cryptocurrency. I think the base currency has to be somewhat stable to avoid confusion.

If for example i sell five hundred barrels of oil for 1Bitcoin today and next month I sell it 2bitcoin, we will conclude that this happened because:
* Bitcoin decreased in value?
OR
* The Oil price was pushed up by demand and supply a against stable Bitcoin?

OpenCryptoSystem

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Quote from: stompix on September 26, 2018, 09:56:04 AM

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 04:39:51 PM

Okay, i was looking the countries wich has the higest debt.
Then i found out debt has something to do with inflation.

Japan has highest debt and suprise surprise why ?

Because they have printed too much money now the inflation is eating the money.

And japan have big bitcoin infrastructure of merchants.
Japan is allready bitcoin friendly country.

What inflation are you talking about?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-economy-inflation/japan-inflation-ticks-up-but-bojs-target-remains-elusive-idUSKCN1M03C6

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 04:39:51 PM

But canada and usa will fall down soon.

Yeah, any minute... don't blink or you might miss it.

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 25, 2018, 07:34:24 AM

As we know bitcoin and whole blockchain is made by secret service and funded by secret service and goverment.
Many here in this forum working together with goverment elite and with secret service.
Many people here are former or even current goverment agents.
So id like to hear what is opinion they have about all of this !!

Triple double layered tin foil hat activated!

Quote from: 1Referee on September 25, 2018, 07:13:30 AM

Quote from: jseverson on September 25, 2018, 04:23:22 AM

A USD collapse, which is the largest reserve currency in the world, would also mean a global economic collapse, and there may be bigger problems to worry about than what to pair BTC with.

People don't realize how serious a collapse scenario will be because they just read something on the internet, think it will increase Bitcoin's value and thus it's a great opportunity for those looking to sell high, they then echo it across a wide variety of platforms, and there you have it, even more noobs thinking that the US dollar is nearing its last days. It's mind boggling how weak minded some people are. If the US dollar goes down, we all go down with it, lol.

Bitcoin's value at that point being $1,000,000 will represent a value of $10,000 today. If Bitcoin needs devaluing fiat currencies to artificially increase significantly, it's pretty pathetic if you ask me. Be careful what you wish for peeps, it will work against you.

All those that are cheering for a collapse of the USD will be the first one running in the streets banging their heads on every pole and asking God why this happened!!!

If the US collapse in a small timeframe (1 week or ) we're all rekt! China Japan Germany Somalia it doesn't matter, the last time the US economy sneezed millions lost their jobs even f they couldn't even point where the US was on a map.

What is BTC or any other crypto going to do for all those? Are they going to turn to bounty hunting on bitcointalk and doing work here? Grin

Seriously, some people are thinking and acting like children.

Your answer here shows exacly who you are !!

But what the usd will do about high debt now ?
They just keep going ?

stompix

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 04:39:51 PM

Okay, i was looking the countries wich has the higest debt.
Then i found out debt has something to do with inflation.

Japan has highest debt and suprise surprise why ?

Because they have printed too much money now the inflation is eating the money.

And japan have big bitcoin infrastructure of merchants.
Japan is allready bitcoin friendly country.

What inflation are you talking about?
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-japan-economy-inflation/japan-inflation-ticks-up-but-bojs-target-remains-elusive-idUSKCN1M03C6

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 04:39:51 PM

But canada and usa will fall down soon.

Yeah, any minute... don't blink or you might miss it.

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 25, 2018, 07:34:24 AM

As we know bitcoin and whole blockchain is made by secret service and funded by secret service and goverment.
Many here in this forum working together with goverment elite and with secret service.
Many people here are former or even current goverment agents.
So id like to hear what is opinion they have about all of this !!

Triple double layered tin foil hat activated!

Quote from: 1Referee on September 25, 2018, 07:13:30 AM

Quote from: jseverson on September 25, 2018, 04:23:22 AM

A USD collapse, which is the largest reserve currency in the world, would also mean a global economic collapse, and there may be bigger problems to worry about than what to pair BTC with.

People don't realize how serious a collapse scenario will be because they just read something on the internet, think it will increase Bitcoin's value and thus it's a great opportunity for those looking to sell high, they then echo it across a wide variety of platforms, and there you have it, even more noobs thinking that the US dollar is nearing its last days. It's mind boggling how weak minded some people are. If the US dollar goes down, we all go down with it, lol.

Bitcoin's value at that point being $1,000,000 will represent a value of $10,000 today. If Bitcoin needs devaluing fiat currencies to artificially increase significantly, it's pretty pathetic if you ask me. Be careful what you wish for peeps, it will work against you.

All those that are cheering for a collapse of the USD will be the first ones running in the streets, banging their heads against every wall still standing and asking God why this happened!!!

If the US collapse in a small timeframe (1 week or ) we're all rekt! China Japan Germany Somalia it doesn't matter, the last time the US economy sneezed millions lost their jobs even f they couldn't even point where the US was on a map.

What is BTC or any other crypto going to do for all those? Are they going to turn to bounty hunting on bitcointalk and doing work here? Grin

Seriously, some people are thinking and acting like children.

jseverson

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 25, 2018, 07:34:24 AM

As we know bitcoin and whole blockchain is made by secret service and funded by secret service and goverment.
Many here in this forum working together with goverment elite and with secret service.
Many people here are former or even current goverment agents.
So id like to hear what is opinion they have about all of this !!

That's kind of a little too conspiracy nut for me. No one has had any evidence whatsoever that a government entity was the brainchild of Bitcoin and the blockchain. They certainly have nothing to gain by working with forum members on Bitcoin matters.

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 25, 2018, 02:16:23 PM

Dollar has high debt, its not mean nothing ?

Here's an article that tackles the US debt issue. tldr; the US is fine for now, and even defaulting won't equal a collosal USD collapse.

maksimukr1989

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It's too early to think about it.Fiat isn't going anywhere.At least in this century.At the moment it's on the verge of fiction.

figmentofmyass

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 25, 2018, 03:49:58 AM

But the problem is btc is not backed up by nothing secure.

At least now btc is backed by fiat somehow...and fiat is backed by debt and people are the collateral for debt so.

Btc value comes from just because of limited coins??

BTC is backed by nothing. in some philosophical sense, you could say it's backed by code, or math (or rather humans' paltry understanding of math).

but the truth is, it's backed by nothing at all. the reason people use it is because other people use it. it's based on faith. it's a token that people trust (until they don't). its value is determined by nothing more than demand vs its limited supply.

satoshi said something about this back in the day:

Quote

I think the traditional qualifications for money were written with the assumption that there are so many competing objects in the world that are scarce, an object with the automatic bootstrap of intrinsic value will surely win out over those without intrinsic value. But if there were nothing in the world with intrinsic value that could be used as money, only scarce but no intrinsic value, I think people would still take up something.

(I'm using the word scarce here to only mean limited potential supply).

OpenCryptoSystem

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Quote from: omfg.xekcep on September 25, 2018, 02:08:28 PM

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

Generally speaking dollar is the world reserve currency and I am sure nothing will happen with dollar in the near future especially while US is powerful and integral. Let me ask you a question. Why do you bury dollar? Are there any objective reasons for that? I am really want to hear your point of view.
In fact dollar is used for evaluating a price almost for everything. Technically we can use nearly any currency with low inflation for that purposes, for instance, Euro.

Dollar has high debt, its not mean nothing ?

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

Generally speaking dollar is the world reserve currency and I am sure nothing will happen with dollar in the near future especially while US is powerful and integral. Let me ask you a question. Why do you bury dollar? Are there any objective reasons for that? I am really want to hear your point of view.
In fact dollar is used for evaluating a price almost for everything. Technically we can use nearly any currency with low inflation for that purposes, for instance, Euro.

esetop01tryba

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It is unlikely that Fiat money will go away and circulation, maybe in the future it will happen but not today for sure !

bob3772

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 04:12:05 PM

Quote from: bob3772 on September 24, 2018, 04:06:05 PM

fiat isn't going to collapse very quickly even if it does. The major economies and governments have too much power right now to allow that. If/when it does happen then other things will just be priced against goods. Like gold used to be priced against everything like milk, eggs etc.

Im sure gold is not as good payment method like bitcoin !!

Would you carry gold with you to go to shop to buy milk??

I dont think its logical !

I think btc will be rather then gold

obviously bitcoin is much better. I just mentioned gold because gold was used traditionally. Eventually it was replaced by cash as people realised the actual transaction of gold wasn't necessary and then printed notes which were backed by gold. In today's age bitcoin would be far superior.

OpenCryptoSystem

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Quote from: 1Referee on September 25, 2018, 07:13:30 AM

Quote from: jseverson on September 25, 2018, 04:23:22 AM

A USD collapse, which is the largest reserve currency in the world, would also mean a global economic collapse, and there may be bigger problems to worry about than what to pair BTC with.

People don't realize how serious a collapse scenario will be because they just read something on the internet, think it will increase Bitcoin's value and thus it's a great opportunity for those looking to sell high, they then echo it across a wide variety of platforms, and there you have it, even more noobs thinking that the US dollar is nearing its last days. It's mind boggling how weak minded some people are. If the US dollar goes down, we all go down with it, lol.

Bitcoin's value at that point being $1,000,000 will represent a value of $10,000 today. If Bitcoin needs devaluing fiat currencies to artificially increase significantly, it's pretty pathetic if you ask me. Be careful what you wish for peeps, it will work against you.

Here is many people who know exacly , but i have not heared from them.

As we know bitcoin and whole blockchain is made by secret service and funded by secret service and goverment.
Many here in this forum working together with goverment elite and with secret service.
Many people here are former or even current goverment agents.
So id like to hear what is opinion they have about all of this !!

Cmon...we are all here in this forum we should talk about everything honestly no need to hide anything !!

Dollar is destined to collapse now everybody talking about this and people who hold crypto are worry about this.

1Referee

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Quote from: jseverson on September 25, 2018, 04:23:22 AM

A USD collapse, which is the largest reserve currency in the world, would also mean a global economic collapse, and there may be bigger problems to worry about than what to pair BTC with.

People don't realize how serious a collapse scenario will be because they just read something on the internet, think it will increase Bitcoin's value and thus it's a great opportunity for those looking to sell high, they then echo it across a wide variety of platforms, and there you have it, even more noobs thinking that the US dollar is nearing its last days. It's mind boggling how weak minded some people are. If the US dollar goes down, we all go down with it, lol.

Bitcoin's value at that point being $1,000,000 will represent a value of $10,000 today. If Bitcoin needs devaluing fiat currencies to artificially increase significantly, it's pretty pathetic if you ask me. Be careful what you wish for peeps, it will work against you.

Hydrogen

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

From the example of nations like turkey, its been established that when fiat currencies collapse or inflate, people look for alternatives to store their wealth to avoid devaluation. Turkey's inflating lira has fueled it attaining one of the highest bitcoin ownership rates in the world. Likewise in venezuela we see the state turning to crypto currencies when their own native fiat currency, the bolivar, hyperinflates or devalues.

When fiat collapse/inflates the value of crypto currencies and bitcoin, increases. That's the precedent we have seen and the one which is likely to continue into the future.

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

USDT is tether. That is a somewhat different topic.

This article from bitcoin magazine did a good job explaining tether:

https://bitcoinmagazine.com/articles/clearing-misconceptions-how-tether-should-and-does-work/

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Quote from: reflector on September 25, 2018, 05:55:07 AM

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

The Bitcoin is a decentralised platform so we should only consider the demand and supply but future market is mostly occupy the cryptocurrencies so fiat currencies are not performing well in the world. It is not affect the USD, USDT and TUSD because these two are depends on USD But dollar is depends on economic growth of United states so Bitcoin will never affect in any situation.

different if bitcoin becomes the world currency, of course economic conditions will affect the world economy, because bitcoin becomes a means of payment from various economic activities

smil3y7

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Quote from: davis196 on September 25, 2018, 06:26:03 AM

...
The bitcoin price will be measured in every other stable Fiat currency-euro,canadian dollar,british pound,austrlian dollar.

That could be the case. But the thing is that most of other Fiat currencies are just like US Dollar - not backed by anything tangible (if I remember correctly, Dollar used to be backed by gold back in the days but it's not anymore, right?). I'm from an EU country and the value of Euro is also declining, thanks to inflation and faked economic indexes... Besides, there is at least one country in EU that is already trying to get rid of Fiat money, planning to leave only "plastic". And if that works out for them (meaning if people accept that change and don't revolt about it) and other countries will follow then we'll be left with "virtual money" anyway. If that scenario goes through, crypto has a great potential to replace government regulated virtual money.

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

very unstable?In which world do you live in?
"Now im if the dollar collapsing"-Wow,what a sentence.I guess that you are asking the same guestion every newbie asks here.The dollar won't collapse,crash or die.It will slowly decrease it's value over the next decades.
The bitcoin price will be measured in every other stable Fiat currency-euro,canadian dollar,british pound,austrlian dollar.

reflector

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

The Bitcoin is a decentralised platform so we should only consider the demand and supply but future market is mostly occupy the cryptocurrencies so fiat currencies are not performing well in the world. It is not affect the USD, USDT and TUSD because these two are depends on USD But dollar is depends on economic growth of United states so Bitcoin will never affect in any situation.

NavI_027

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If that's the case then other replies are right. It will be the same with our current monetary system. There is no need for finding equivalence if the only existing form of money is bitcoin (though seems impossible to happen), its price will now freely move without comparing to any currency.

But in my opinion, putting this into reality was still not a very good idea because we can still see loopholes on it. The supply of bitcoin is limited, it has only a 21M btc to be mined in total. If this depletes as time goes by, what do you think will happen? Of course, the price of it will soar high. The result, imbalance in our economy. Another to be considered, if btc will be the only existing currency then how will you put a price to a particular goods if we have no basis at all. For example, how can you justify that a pair of Converse sneakers is only .005 btc and not cheaper or more expensive than that.

@OP ~ Next time, express your ideas clearer.

Ycekezuv

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If such a situation suddenly happens, then everything will be the same, only on price tags instead of $ will satoshi!

jseverson

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 25, 2018, 03:59:46 AM

Now should they use gold again to re-value btc price?
I guess this is most correct way to get real btc value

Why would it be based on gold? Just so it wouldn't be dependent on USD or any fiat value anymore? It kind of doesn't make sense to me, because gold value is also paired with fiat anyway and also has its own fluctuations in value. Bitcoin actually being backed with gold is also out of the question because of Bitcoin's decentralized nature.

Either way, you seem to believe that the USD will collapse soon, and I beg to disagree. A USD collapse, which is the largest reserve currency in the world, would also mean a global economic collapse, and there may be bigger problems to worry about than what to pair BTC with. Also worth noting that people like McAfee's prediction takes into account massive USD devaluation, but they price it in USD anyway. Just my two satoshis on the matter.

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I agree if the dollar will be difficult to really collapse because it is built with a system that is very old and good and many countries depend on the dollar, but if this happens then there are many other fiat that will give value to crypto like the euro, yesn - yen Japan and other currencies. because the basic value of crypto itself is fiat that is circulating today

OpenCryptoSystem

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And dont tell me that mining gives value to the bitcoin.

Mining its just some smart excuse to say to solve blocks or what ever.

All the crypto have only value coz of people faith in.

Now when the btc price is low many newbies think btc is bad now..and no more hope.
They just dont realise its okay to go down and to go up.
Once they see it will go up like over...15 k many newbies will jump and will invest.
After world war 2 property prices around the world was extremly cheap...even in places like london real estate was cheap.
But slowly couse of stabilisation and economical and social growth the prices started going higher.
Everything can fall and go up again.

As i know fiat price was backed with gold in very first, then the bad guys like rotchilds and other bankers just removed the gold as fiat backer and they start using debt instead of gold.

Now should they use gold again to re-value btc price?
I guess this is most correct way to get real btc value

OpenCryptoSystem

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Many saing that when the usd will fall the btc can fall too.
But i guess it will be quick down fall for btc and then up again.

But the problem is btc is not backed up by nothing secure.

At least now btc is backed by fiat somehow...and fiat is backed by debt and people are the collateral for debt so.

Btc value comes from just because of limited coins??

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We should not talk about that extreme scenario, but is the currency" USD, Bitcoin, gold" undervalued or overvalued?
There is a theory called purchasing power parity "PPP," which states that in two different areas, the cost of goods and services is the same. For example, the cost of buying a coffee is $ 5 and in a second country € 3 means that $ 5 is worth € 3 and so on.

Currency is a measure of its value and willingness to pay for it.
In the case of Bitcoin, the value in itself is zero either the willingness to pay is expressed by supply and demand.

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??

the prices of everything else would be calculated in bitcoin. bitcoin's value would equal its purchasing power, just like we think of USD today.

Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

dollar collapse doesn't mean the collapse of all fiat currencies. people would just use the new global reserve that replaces the dollar---CNY, EUR, whatever. i assume that would be the primary base currency for BTC, and BTC would continue to be the base currency for altcoins.

tanoe

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Do you already know how the fiat money we use is now calculated?

there may already be a concept for cryptocurrency (which I don't know yet), but even so, it still has to be approved by all countries.
there must be strong rules governing it.

Juggy777

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

Hey economic situation was never really normal if you recollect the Great Depression, Bubble Crash or the Lehman brothers bankruptcy fiat never crumbled. I don't think under any scenario can dollar crash or become virtually inexistent as we literally base everything on dollars. If your hypothetical situation is examined it's very difficult to, fix a quantum way of pricing bitcoins as there's no currency to value it against.

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Quote from: pavka on September 24, 2018, 03:46:57 PM

Perhaps by the time the dollar loses its position, bitcoin will receive such quality as purchasing power. This will determine its value. Let's say for 1 bitcoin it will be possible to buy so much gold, or oil or land, and the like.

no one can know the development of cryptocurrencies because it is one of the risks in investing with crypto currencies and the price or value of cryptocurrencies experience that movement because the investors themselves

pooya87

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why do you think the way we talk about price of bitcoin should be any different than the way we talk about price of anything else? price is not "determined" if we say it is worth X dollar or if we say it is worth Y Euro or if we say it is worth Z cups of coffee.

and to answer your question about how to do it if USD, etc collapses i ask you how would you determine price of a cup of coffee in that scenario? answer than and you can use the same method to determine price of bitcoin.

batang_bitcoin

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The dollar won't collapse easily, they will be low down due to inflation but it will survive just like the old days.

Bitcoin's price would still be depending to fiat money to determine the value of it and its likely that we just shifted from fiat to digital. As it depends to the USD value then it will be taken over and determined by another foreign currency.

Jaycee99

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

Maybe double the half because as I can see that bitcoin is very special and unique in its own way.

An altcoin/ cryptocurrency maybe connected to fiat but as far as I can see and experienced plus observed bitcoin/cryptocurrency is different from fiat currencies

The price is the same (speaking about cryptocurrency) but it still depends on how the value speaks there are still speacific value to crypto/ altcoin that is the fact that I known and observed (to much observation, sorry I dont want to be known as a false information/ news.

OpenCryptoSystem

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China fiat currency will become world strongest currency.

Im sure about this 100% since all goods trading the world depending on the china !!

How this will affect the bitcoin im not sure but some ways it will.

OpenCryptoSystem

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Quote from: xcajun21 on September 24, 2018, 04:22:22 PM

I am not sure, but probably every market needs another entity to trade to and from.
For example, give stuff x, for stuff y.

Nothing opposes this idea i think, there were ads on different sites about buying with crypto. They just convert ur btc.

Okay, i was looking the countries wich has the higest debt.
Then i found out debt has something to do with inflation.

Japan has highest debt and suprise surprise why ?

Because they have printed too much money now the inflation is eating the money.

And japan have big bitcoin infrastructure of merchants.
Japan is allready bitcoin friendly country.

The next countries are the latin america where the bitcoin is wide used.

I was checking the global countries gbt and debt statistics... so.

In my opinion. The japan currency will be first wich will devalue.

The second will be. Either usa or canada.

And surprice surprice.. you can allready use bitcoins in Usa and Canada.

Both in Canada and usa have huge debt.
Canada money have high inflation also.

So people in canada are prepared to use bitcoins too.

The bitcoin as usual payment method in Europe and Uk are not so common.... so i guess uk and eu currency will survive little bit longer.

But canada and usa will fall down soon.

So i guess people in canada and usa will start using btc then.

xcajun21

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I am not sure, but probably every market needs another entity to trade to and from.
For example, give stuff x, for stuff y.

Nothing opposes this idea i think, there were ads on different sites about buying with crypto. They just convert ur btc.

OpenCryptoSystem

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But if we look at the whole situation then its good for the bitcoin.
But then what? Bitcoin will be usd ?
Ethereum will be russian ruble ?? Cheesy

And ripple like Eur ? Cheesy

So there is no place for other altcoins so they will be vanished they will be disapered.

OpenCryptoSystem

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Quote from: bob3772 on September 24, 2018, 04:06:05 PM

fiat isn't going to collapse very quickly even if it does. The major economies and governments have too much power right now to allow that. If/when it does happen then other things will just be priced against goods. Like gold used to be priced against everything like milk, eggs etc.

Im sure gold is not as good payment method like bitcoin !!

Would you carry gold with you to go to shop to buy milk??

I dont think its logical !

I think btc will be rather then gold

bob3772

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fiat isn't going to collapse very quickly even if it does. The major economies and governments have too much power right now to allow that. If/when it does happen then other things will just be priced against goods. Like gold used to be priced against everything like milk, eggs etc.

OpenCryptoSystem

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Dollar is backed up with debt at least.
And debt is backed by humens as collateral to this debt.

So bitcoin is backed by faith?
And why cant be bitcoin price calculated with euro?

2 indicators bad things what going on in usa now is:

Credit freezing.
And trade war with china.

Nothing good for the dollar.

So if there no more good fiat currency to compare btc price and calculating then who will make that judgement with what the btc price will be calculated?
Are the bitcoin users ?

Cmon...guys im sure 100% few people here knows exacly how the bitcoin price will be calculated... as few people here have some special connections and special education background i would like to hear from them the answer.
Because current economic situation will change alot about cryptocurrency too.

Im sure in few days and we see huge usa stock market crash !!

So its good to be prepared and to stay safer side

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculated??

Then there'll be no need for conversion, so no fiat price tag. It's due to the conversion from Crypto to fiat that the price tag get placed on bitcoin.
Example, satoshi will be used in place of the fiat currency.
Lets say you were to buy an iphone which cost $1000 but as fiat is no more to determine the price in usd, you can buy it (iPhone) for 0.151satoshi and no longer $1000 worth of bitcoin.
Bitcoin will take the place of USD and will be used to determine the price of altcoin

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Perhaps by the time the dollar loses its position, bitcoin will receive such quality as purchasing power. This will determine its value. Let's say for 1 bitcoin it will be possible to buy so much gold, or oil or land, and the like.

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Quote from: OpenCryptoSystem on September 24, 2018, 02:56:00 PM

...
Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

If crypto was to replace fiat money entirely (not gonna happen though) then you could expect similar picture as we have right now, just replace USD with BTC etc.

Traders/economists and alike would observe crypto/crypto pairs, while general population wouldn't care too much.

ps Take all the "Dollar is collapsing any minute now!" statements with a grain of salt.

OpenCryptoSystem

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As we know due to high inflation economical situation is very unstable !

Now im if the dollar collapsing then how the bitcoin or other coins value will be calculated??

Lets say all the fiat money will be gone and crypto currency will be used how the bitcoin price will be calculatwd??
If the dollar is falling the USDT...virtual currency will be still the base currency for crypto?

Topic: My question about bitcoins economical shift (Read 566 times)