Topic: Nano Ledger Changing Sending Fee? (Read 166 times)

This has nothing to do with change addresses. As I explained in your other topic, Coinbase does this for privacy reasons. It generates a new address for each deposit you make to ensure no one can tell how much you've deposited in total.
However, reusing the same address is perfectly fine and whatever you send to it will be credited to your account.

Your transaction uses one or few of your UTXOs (previously received coins) to cover the sent amount plus the transaction fee and whenever the used UTXO value is larger than the amount to be sent, a change address (belongs to your wallet) will be added as an extra output and the difference will be sent to it.

I just did transfer with ledger nano to coinbase and put small fee and transaction got confirmations but it took a bit.  I put a bit less than l0 sat/vb as sending fee


That small transfer is in coinbase now and was already deducted from my nano ledger history.


So right now im going to send a bigger btc balance from nano ledger to coinbase.  But when i go to coinbase, and click on receive address... its a different btc address?  Is it because of change address?


Also when i sent btc earlier... it showed tiny amount of btc... but it also showed the whole transaction as a big amount of btc


Like imagine


X amount of btc   -   tiny small of btc transferred
                               
                              difference between x amount of btc and tiny small amount of btc transferred



It showed like output 0 and l etc.


This is normal right?


Also it showed the transaction as a bigger amount of btc, much more than what i sent... i literally sent like l0 dollars.  That is normal right?



But i should have no issue copy and pasting that new coinbase receiving address they gave me?  But i could still put the same coinbase receiving address if i wanted to right?


Thanks.

Uh huh, 10 sats/vbyte would have been fine in earlier times, but right now the minimum fee to send a transaction with a reasonable confirmation time has been fluctuating wildly--and it's generally been very high for about a month or so.

I don't think you can up the fee once you've sent it with Ledger unless you're using it through Electrum (which I never do, so I'm not 100% sure).  In any case, it probably will take about 80 sats/vbyte right now to send any amount of bitcoin without having to wait an eternity for a confirmation.  It's times like these when I hate sending bitcoin, and I'm glad I don't really have to.

ok.

Okay im going to send some soon.  I want to test a tiny btc deposit to my coinbase address since i never sent one to it just in case.  Then i would send a bigger amount.  If im going to test say a l0 dollar btc transfer from nano ledger to coinbase, you would recommend send with a cheap fee right?  Risky to do this with say 5 sat/kb?  Or should i do more?



I just took a look right now and on mempool it shows


Low priority
35 sat/vB
$2.89


Medium priority
56 sat/vB
$4.63


High priority
91 sat/vB
$7.53



About 12 hours ago or a bit more ago, i remembered the low priority was much lower and so were the other ones.  So basically if you are not in a rush, check this site to see what is the low priority, medium priority and high priority correct?


Im looking at the latest transactions and it seems almost everyone is putting at least 20 sat/vb with the majority of the fees being like 80 sat/vb.  That is normal right when thats how the low/medium/high priority fees look like now?  So that is why i almost see no transaction like last night when many fees were around 5 sat/vb?


Also is there a way to see the transactions without it going so fast like on mempool?  I want to look for people who pay a low transaction fee like say 20 sat/vb or less... and are sending say up to 5000 dollars for example.  Like i just copied and paste this transaction


https://mempool.space/tx/6bc68b7e4b8fda1cf03aac76ec5b9fb1d22eb44a67efd524dc5c6a62c04ded2e


So this person paying

Fee   3,859 sat$2.26
Fee rate   17.2 sat/vB


‎0.08661796 BTC or around 5000 usd.


I see it immediately shows ETA is l0 minutes or l block.  Then a minute later... 20 minutes or 2 blocks.   Im going to see how long it takes for this transaction to confirm.  So after it shows l confirmation on the transaction, its pretty much confirmed right?

That's why it's just an estimator, you shouldn't rely on it as the absolute truth. The situation with unconfirmed transactions can change rapidly, within 30-40 minutes. The average block time is 10 minutes, but sometimes no blocks are found for up to an hour. Other times, it can happen that we have 3 or more blocks within 10 minutes. If in that timeframe while you are waiting there is a rise in unconfirmed transactions that are willing to pay a higher fee than yours, those who pay less will obviously fall lower on the priority list. That's why you will see things like in your example. A transaction shows an ETA of 3 blocks and 10 minutes later it's 5 blocks.   

There is no such thing as a default Ledger fee rate, what exactly is your question?

2,096 sat is the total fee that will be paid for that transaction. 6.2 sat is the amount the sender is paying per virtual byte. That transaction has a virtual size of 337 virtual Bytes. Multiple the size of the transaction with the fee rate (those 6.2 sat/vByte) to calculate the approximate total fee.

Okay one other thing


https://mempool.space/tx/dcd34e9f94f26f66bcc22b7a61778e41d98ddd0b7fb1ae8f7ac89ed47a1aa4c5


This person did transaction now with

Fee   2,096 sat $1.23
Fee rate   6.2 sat/vB



On transaction with

‎0.14997904 BTC   


which is around 8800 usd.  When i first saw this transaction on mempool, it showed estimated time was 3 blocks and 30 minutes.  Now l0 minutes later, it shows estimated time is 4 blocks and 40 minutes. Thus its actually taking longer than expected now right?  Earlier many hours ago, it seemed transactions were very fast where just doing 10 sat/vbyte would work in just 10 minutes or so?



Now the one confusing thing is this.  Is the fee rate what that person select in their hardware wallet or electrum or whatever wallet?  Such as that 89 that is set as default on nano ledger?  Thus you could change that to
5 or 10?


Then why does 6.2 sat/vB is 2,096 sat ?  Is that converting from sat/vb to sat?  Obviously $1.23 is he same as 2,096 sat but is it same as  6.2 sat/vB?

The minimum fee required to accelerate transaction on ViaBTC is 0.0001Btc/Kb, this is the same as 10 sat/byte, not 10 sat/vbyte. Some people that make use of segwit do make the mistake of 10 sat/vbyte, where as, that is less than 10 sat/byte, which will not make the transaction to be freely accelerated using ViaBTC. The last time I sent from native segwit address to another native segwit address, I used 16 sat/vbyte, this almost equivalent to 10 sat/byte.

If the mempool is not congested and is able to confirm 5 sat/vbyte, it will be able to take 1 sat/vbyte transactions, but if not confirm, and the mempool become congested to certain level in mVB, this can result to force such (1 sat/vbyte) transaction that has not been confirmed out of mempool, during this time also, transaction of 1 sat/vbyte can not be broadcasted.

Transactions below 1 sat/vByte are rejected, yes. Also consider the purging fee (which has now been renamed to "Minimum fee") on https://mempool.space/. If the minimum fee says 2 sats, chances are high that a 1 sat/vByte transaction would be rejected because mempools are limited in size.  

What exactly is shocking to you? Right now, transactions of 4-5 sats are getting included in the next block.

That's because you are easily surprised, shocked, and afraid all the time.

Wrong. That transaction paid 5.1 sat/vByte in mining fees. You do understand that the amount you send via the Bitcoin network isn't the factor that determines how much you will pay in fees right?

Oh, great. I was worried there for a second. 

I assume that if you tried to send with a few lower than 1 sat/vByte, LL would display a notification or error message similar to what Electrum does. Try it and see what it says. Stop thinking in dollar amounts when talking about bitcoin fees.

What are you on about now? Care to explain with a huge wall of text and bolded sentences?

Okay so the absolute minimum for sending fee you could send for transaction to work would be 1 sat/vByte right?  Also on the mempool site, it seem to estimated how long it would take... i notice most transactions seem to say within one block... even though people who are sending with a 5 sat/vByte fee?  Can anyone confirm this now when looking at mempool?  That is what i see and am shocked at this.


Yea i know you cant accelerate your transaction on ledger live, i know its only on that viabtc site... but i thought you couldn't RBF enable on ledger live.


I see that low/medium/high priority.  It just seems like still some people seem to be sending with only a 5 sat/vbyte fee which surprises me.



I mean, look at this transaction

8d31b07fcee00ef3490f1a3d097eec6fc25ba36446fbd1cb91e6f30c7095ca5c


This person sent ‎0.10296441 BTC = almost 6000 dollars.  They paid a fee of 1,135 sat or $0.66 and got the transaction confirmed in only 12 minutes?  Is that correct?




I also thought of something else.  Is it possible that if you put a low fee to send on ledger live, it would tell you transaction wouldn't go through and say it needs to be minimum so and so fee?  Asking this because a while back when I used electrum to send btc to old nano ledger, I recalled I had to pay minimum so and so fee in order for transaction to even send.   Like it didn't even accept me putting a so and so 5 dollar fee... and it had to been minimum double that etc. 

---

I also checked the other site someone posted.  Average sending fee for the day was 20.14.  How is it that high?  When i looked at the mempool, i don't see many fees even close to that high.

[moderator's note: consecutive posts merged]

You can perform an RBF transaction on a 1 sat/vByte the same way you would do it on a 10 or 100 sat/vByte transaction. As long as the RBF feature was ticked when you broadcast the transaction, you'll have that option.

That magic number of 10 sat/vByte that you mentioned, that's just the lowest network fees that are needed to accelerate an unconfirmed transaction via the ViaBTC free accelerator service.

It should be auto-checked by default. Check the status of it yourself when you create a transaction. Under advanced settings in Ledger Live you will see different coin control modes and a tick box to enable RBF transactions.

Have it ticked always. It doesn't hurt, and it doesn't make your transaction heavier or more expensive when it's on. Consider it a kind of security feature that enables you to bump the fees in case you need a faster confirmation.

True, you can't accelerate your transaction through Ledger Live, but you can have the RBF option enabled and do it via Electrum if needed.

Just look at the Low/Medium/High priority transaction fees that the site suggests. If you are in a hurry to get a quick confirmation, use the high priority recommendation. If you can afford to wait a little, use the low priority fee.

Im looking at that mempool site.


You want me to look at latest transactions right?  Or latest blocks?  I assume latest transactions?


https://mempool.space/tx/cf44732d738e93423694b149d64bebc349cad2227c0ea5fb7b894afab190f436



So this person sent a tiny sending fee of 5.9 sat/vB or 1,130 sat =$0.66


The amount this person sent was ‎0.00731136 BTC or $424.04



It shows this transaction was 7 minutes ago and has 1 confirmation and it has went through?

Yes

Check any of the mempool observer I posted above to check the current feerate. But, the mempool is not congested for now, and low fee transactions are getting confirmed. Try to check http://mempool.space for simplified one, and study how the feerate fluctuates. I believe you will still see less than 5 sat/vbyte frequently for now.

Yes, transaction can take too long but depending on how mempool is. But, know that you can not use RBF on ledger nano. But, I am not sure if the recent updates support it.

I am not using ledger nano, this question will better be answered by someone using the wallet.

Okay so that 89 number i saw, that is sat/vbyte right?  So change it to 4 sat/vbyte if i wanted to and that would be the minimum fee that probably would work?  I recall not long ago, you always need to put at least
10 sat/vbyte?  But thats only if you want to make sure if transaction take too long, then you could send a higher fee later on?


I heard about that replace by fee term but does that need to be checked in ledger?  Is it auto checked?  Should you uncheck it?


I assume only check it if you want the option to send a higher fee later on if transaction takes too long?

The feerate will be in sat/vbyte not satoshibytes. There is no standard feerate, which also means there is no standard fee. The feerate fluctuates in accordance to how congested mempool is. Recently, 4 sat/vbyte can get transaction confirmed possibly in the next block.

You can use any of this mempool observers to check network feerate
https://jochen-hoenicke.de/queue/#BTC,24h,fee
https://mempool.space/
https://mempool.observer/

The mempool has been so less congested today. I do not know how accurate ledger wallet fee estimator is, but you can use any of the mempool observer above to check the feerate. Recently, 4 sat/vbyte will get your transaction confirmed in the next block, but the feerate do fluctuates everytime, so you need to check it before you customer the fee on your wallet.

It depends, the feerate is fluctuating in accordance to mempool congestion, if you set low fee, and the mempool become less congested to the extent it can make your transaction confirmed, then your transaction will be confirmed. Try to check and study how the feerate fluctuates on any of the mempool observer above.

Use it with Electrum: https://electrum.org/#download

You will be able to manage a tutorial about how to use a Nano Ledger using Electrum.

With Electrum you can have more options to set fees however you like. You can use jochen or mempool.space to determine what fees you need to set. Life will be easier for you if you move from Ledger live.

When I was using the nano ledger with ledger live and put in an amount to send... say 0.05 btc... it showed the option to change the btc fees.. and it was standard which was 89 satoshibytes?  I clicked on low... and all it did was 88?  Then put high and it went up to 90.  But when you look at the price of it... it was essentially 8 dollars more or less for either of these options?



So what is the lowest amount i could change that 89 to where it would do the transaction pretty fast?  I assume right now... it probably would go through in less than an hour?  I thought it was twenty dollar fee last time but now avg fee is 8 dollars?  Do you need to make any changes with ledger live settings for the fees... or you only need to change that 89 to another number?  I heard 10 should be the absolute minimum one should ever put down?



I assume putting that low of a fee...  might mean it takes whole day for transaction to go through?  But if it does go through, nano ledger will tell you went through but not confirmed right?