Native lightning Bitcoin payments by card are faster than visa/mastercard

LoyceV

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Quote from: nullama on August 25, 2022, 07:59:28 PM

just tapping a card.
~
all managed and controlled by only you.

I like the techonology, but I wouldn't want to use it for anything other than proof of concept. I don't use "tapping" for bank cards, and I wouldn't use it for Bitcoin LN either. You'll need to keep the pass in an RFID wallet to prevent people from stealing your funds just by being close. With banks, that's risky for the thief because there will be a paper trail, but with Bitcoin LN, there isn't much risk. You'll also have to trust the device doesn't take a higher amount than it shows on the screen. I prefer a wallet in which I have to confirm the amount on my own device, although I admit I don't think it's very likely a cafe in Gibraltar will use this to rip off their customers.

Quote from: mk4 on August 25, 2022, 09:59:54 PM

Faster payments is cool and all, but the 1-2 second difference is practically a nothingburger.

It's impressive to beat a system that's being used by billions of people. But how reliable is it? Most of my LN payments are indeed almost instantly, but sometimes it doesn't work and I don't know whether or not I paid for a long time. That would be annoying if you buy coffee.

Abiky

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Quote from: nullama on August 25, 2022, 07:59:28 PM

At a cafe in Gibraltar two people paid for their coffees, one with a Bolt Card and one with a legacy card.

...

You can see the video in the original tweet. You will see that the lightning payment is done faster than the legacy payment, and both are done in the same way, just tapping a card.

The Bolt Card is basically an NFC card with a NTAG424DNA chip, which provides better security than normal NFC cards (prevents replay attacks), and also comes with nice designs. You can also just buy blank NFC cards with that chip as well, but the Bolt Cards are probably cheaper and look better anyway.

How it works is that basically you write a LNURL withdraw link into the card, the checkout reads the NFC card, processes the link and gets the bitcoin. You can manage your cards with open source: boltcard server, and the NFC programming app.

This is really great because people will now be able to use Bitcoin directly, with no middle-men. Note that this is not a credit card linked to an exchange, this is a card that spends your sats directly from your own lightning node, all managed and controlled by only you.

Here's some more information about the Bolt Card, some more videos of it in action, and how to use them with other software, all without having to rely on any other financial institution.

It's very impressive. This shows Bitcoin's true potential as a "Peer-to-Peer Electronic Cash System" that's fast and cheap to use for day-to-day payments (unlike traditional credit/debit cards or bank transfers). What Bitcoin needs is price stability in order to reach a wider audience. I'm amazed by how the Lightning Network makes paying for goods and/or services a breeze. This new Bolt Card should pave the way towards mass adoption of Bitcoin through the Lightning Network.

I think it's only the beginning as crypto (especially Bitcoin) challenges existing payment processors such as VISA, Mastercard, and PayPal. Remember, "the early bird catches the worm". If you get in now, you'll reap huge rewards in the future once Bitcoin becomes a full-fledged mainstream cryptocurrency. Who knows if we're one step closer towards "hyperbitcoinization"? Just my opinion

nullama

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Quote from: Cookdata on August 26, 2022, 05:25:26 AM

Anything for Bitcoin is cool for me but I fear what Master card or any merchants might do later with their policy if they observe an increase in their traffic through LN. Some weeks ago, I saw a similar thing about LN accepting stablecoins but I was also discouraged that they are centralised stablecoins, I don't want them to bring their madness to bitcoin. Decentralized stable coins are ideal for that LN structure but I found out that they are even worse as they are all de-pegging recently with an overflow of protocols.

Quote from: nullama on August 26, 2022, 01:03:25 AM

The Bolt Card Server is open source so you don't need CoinCorner for that.

Will this be possible to implement in Non-custodial wallets like Electrum wallets if they choose to?

There's no usage of Mastercard or Visa here, there's no intermediary. It's not like those cards that are linked to an exchange, sell your bitcoin and pay in cash through their own system.

This uses Bitcoin directly. You run your own server, you set the rules.

You can choose any lightning node you want. I know Electrum has lightning, but not sure if it supports the required standards yet.

Cookdata

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Anything for Bitcoin is cool for me but I fear what Master card or any merchants might do later with their policy if they observe an increase in their traffic through LN. Some weeks ago, I saw a similar thing about LN accepting stablecoins but I was also discouraged that they are centralised stablecoins, I don't want them to bring their madness to bitcoin. Decentralized stable coins are ideal for that LN structure but I found out that they are even worse as they are all de-pegging recently with an overflow of protocols.

Quote from: nullama on August 26, 2022, 01:03:25 AM

The Bolt Card Server is open source so you don't need CoinCorner for that.

Will this be possible to implement in Non-custodial wallets like Electrum wallets if they choose to?

moneystery

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Quote from: taufik123 on August 26, 2022, 12:40:05 AM

This NFC Card Lightning Network is an innovation by Danny Scott as CEO of CoinCorner and of course this is a progress project for Bitcoin Lightning users. Faster, more efficient and very cheap fees. no app, no internet and The BOLT CRAD runs completely offline.

Bolt Card has at least 3 uses, namely

1. As a Debit Card that is connected to the user's CoinCorner account, it is possible to use Bitcoin and use Fiat such as Euro (EUR) and Pound (GBP) which are usually used in European countries.
2. As a Gift Card that can be refilled through the CoinCorner application and then can be used as a gift for family or friends by filling in Bitcoin Lightning or some Fiat.
3. As a Prepaid Card that can be used for its own users such as Gift Crad.

This Bolt Card is quite cheap and can be operated using a wallet and a gateway and can be operated either by a custodian or by a non-custodian and of course above the TOR.
Coin Corner also will not stop with its innovation, it will continue to develop new innovations and have bigger plans.

it is very interesting when bitcoin lighting with its various advantages is integrated into a debit card, but I think that what is important is not the speed, but the success of the transaction, security and low fees for the merchant.
but still with the various advantages you mentioned above it would be very interesting if the lighting network could be integrated into more debit/credit cards globally.

nullama

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Quote from: taufik123 on August 26, 2022, 12:40:05 AM

This NFC Card Lightning Network is an innovation by Danny Scott as CEO of CoinCorner and of course this is a progress project for Bitcoin Lightning users. Faster, more efficient and very cheap fees. no app, no internet and The BOLT CRAD runs completely offline.
~snip~

What CoinCorner has done is basically attaching their exchange service to an already existing NFC technology, using already existing standards like lnurl-withdrawal and putting some nice designs on the card, plus some nice marketing. Here's the announcement from CoinCorner's CEO, Danny Scott.

But you don't need CoinCorner to do this. You can see why in the following diagram that explains what's happening under the hood:

The Bolt Card from CoinCorner is cheap and has nice designs, but you really only need the specific NFC tag, the NXP-DNA-424-NTAG, which you can buy from many places, either blank or with designs, or even with non-card shapes.

The Bolt Card Server is open source so you don't need CoinCorner for that.

You only need CoinCorner if you want to connect this card to an exchange, but not everyone wants to do that.

taufik123

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This NFC Card Lightning Network is an innovation by Danny Scott as CEO of CoinCorner and of course this is a progress project for Bitcoin Lightning users. Faster, more efficient and very cheap fees. no app, no internet and The BOLT CRAD runs completely offline.

Bolt Card has at least 3 uses, namely

1. As a Debit Card that is connected to the user's CoinCorner account, it is possible to use Bitcoin and use Fiat such as Euro (EUR) and Pound (GBP) which are usually used in European countries.
2. As a Gift Card that can be refilled through the CoinCorner application and then can be used as a gift for family or friends by filling in Bitcoin Lightning or some Fiat.
3. As a Prepaid Card that can be used for its own users such as Gift Crad.

This Bolt Card is quite cheap and can be operated using a wallet and a gateway and can be operated either by a custodian or by a non-custodian and of course above the TOR.
Coin Corner also will not stop with its innovation, it will continue to develop new innovations and have bigger plans.

nullama

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Yeah, the difference in speed basically is negligible because in the end both card payments are making an internet request, and that means that sometimes one will be faster than the other and sometimes the opposite.

The main point is that you're not using a centralized system to make the payment, you're using your own sats directly, natively, in the same way that you would use a credit card, just tapping.

There are no banks or exchanges needed to pay, just your own lightning node. I think this is a great improvement in terms of usability of Bitcoin.

And the merchant in this case gets the sats immediately, with virtually no fees. In comparison, credit card companies take days to pay and charge quite a bit for each transaction.

This basically connects the seller with the buyer directly, from one lightning node to another. Game changer.

avikz

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Does it make a difference? Having a card loaded with crypto is a good thing because that how people can avoid extra fees during a transaction and their user experience remains same. That's how we all can bring crypto adoption to the mainstream economy.

But this 2 seconds of difference doesn't make an impact at all. We need to see how faster the merchants are getting their settlement. If it can beat the traditional banks, then merchants will be able to promote such payment methods. It all depends on the end user experience at both sender and receiver side.

mk4

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Faster payments is cool and all, but the 1-2 second difference is practically a nothingburger.

Definitely a cool use of LN + NFC though. When I saw the vid I automatically assumed it was a centralized bitcoin debit card.

nullama

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At a cafe in Gibraltar two people paid for their coffees, one with a Bolt Card and one with a legacy card.

You can see the video in the original tweet. You will see that the lightning payment is done faster than the legacy payment, and both are done in the same way, just tapping a card.

The Bolt Card is basically an NFC card with a NTAG424DNA chip, which provides better security than normal NFC cards (prevents replay attacks), and also comes with nice designs. You can also just buy blank NFC cards with that chip as well, but the Bolt Cards are probably cheaper and look better anyway.

How it works is that basically you write a LNURL withdraw link into the card, the checkout reads the NFC card, processes the link and gets the bitcoin. You can manage your cards with open source: boltcard server, and the NFC programming app.

This is really great because people will now be able to use Bitcoin directly, with no middle-men. Note that this is not a credit card linked to an exchange, this is a card that spends your sats directly from your own lightning node, all managed and controlled by only you.

Here's some more information about the Bolt Card, some more videos of it in action, and how to use them with other software, all without having to rely on any other financial institution.

Topic: Native lightning Bitcoin payments by card are faster than visa/mastercard (Read 280 times)