Nebraska, Gambling might be too expensive for casinos

Mahanton

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Quote from: jrrsparkles on November 17, 2021, 01:12:23 PM

Casino business is only for the rich people so now they are taking it to next level of asking the complete fee upfront with more regulations but it all depends on the casino and where they want to operate their gambling business. When it comes to online gambling most owners will avoid such huge fee because of insecurity about the future of their business and its actually not needed since they can operate from the same website from any corner of this world so they they have to pay high for the same returns.

There are really differences between online and physical casinos which it isnt really that surprising that they do really differ or doesnt really have any license at all into those online casinos out there which is some of them are still unlicensed but we know the risk on dealing with those non regulated ones.Speaking with physical casinos then
its a profitable business and i dont see for it to be that on high impact on raising up those fees yet they would able to cover it up without any problems even into those who
are tending to start up then that wouldnt really be much of an amount.

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The gambling market in the US is slowly being taken over by the big companies, so I'm not surprised why the licensing fees are so high. In my opinion this is one of the ways to force small players to leave the gambling market by legal means. It is quite possible that this is a cooperative effort between people in power and big businessmen.

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Quote from: YOSHIE on November 16, 2021, 03:56:48 AM

I try to study and see one source related to license fees and gambling taxes.
As said below.

https://gaming.nv.gov/index.aspx?page=94

Quote

SPECIAL NOTICE

In addition to State administered gaming license fees and taxes, various other license fees and taxes may be required by the Federal Government and local governmental units throughout Nevada. Applicants for gaming licenses and existing gaming licensees should contact these other governmental units for information regarding the license fees and tax rates administered by them. Inquiries concerning reporting requirements should be directed to the Tax & License Division of the Nevada Gaming Control Board.

In the quote above, I conclude that the licensing fee for each type of gambling and the structure of the gambling site, the fee depends on the rules of the particular country in implementing it, different countries have different gambling license fees, there are the cheapest and up to the highest as you said, but it all depends on how many years they take, for example: 1-20 years, just multiply the year.

As you said, probably among the casinos operating in Nebraska the most expensive licensing fees, I've also seen online casinos in the United States, not the middle part, the other part that caters to the casino, the license fee is around $30,000/5 year or $70,000/7 year, which is cheaply the license renewal fee is around $2800/year.

Conclusion: the license fee in Nebraska if it's $1 million, in 20 years, that means/year the casinos there have to pay a license fee of around $50,000/year, not much different from other casinos in other parts of America.

Yes, if you look over the years, the fees are really not much different from other places. But the difference between paying 50k every year and paying a one-time 1 million is quite large. In general, on the one hand, it can be good - this million will be used as a reserve fund and players will be protected from surprises. But on the other hand, such a large down payment contributes to the monopolization of the market as it drives out small players.

jrrsparkles

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Casino business is only for the rich people so now they are taking it to next level of asking the complete fee upfront with more regulations but it all depends on the casino and where they want to operate their gambling business. When it comes to online gambling most owners will avoid such huge fee because of insecurity about the future of their business and its actually not needed since they can operate from the same website from any corner of this world so they they have to pay high for the same returns.

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Quote from: swogerino on November 16, 2021, 04:09:25 AM

It may look like it is a big one time fee but actually that is a ridiculous amount for a casino in Nebraska.The amount if it comes forth it means 50.000 dollars a year which any simple casino can afford it.If only a big whale,a player that plays huge amounts of money loses big it means the casino already recovered their license fee for that year,keep in mind though that in a casino usually comes much more than just one whale player,so in the end it is not an expensive fee at all.

The problem is that it is a huge barrier to entry, if the fee to get and renew a casino license was 50k each year then this is easier to pay than one million upfront, we also must remember that while the mental image that most people have about casinos are those giant casinos that are also hotels like the ones you can find at Las Vegas and that can easily pay that million, the majority of the casinos are in fact small without luxurious installations and I doubt they will have the money to pay for something like this.

Jackl87

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1 Million just for the fee sounds like a lot of money and of course it also it is a huge amount of money but you also have to keep in mind that the license is valid for 20 years and that you can potentially make a huge amount of money with that license. I still think it's kinda weird that nebraska has such a high fee for casinos because i just read that nebraska has only a population of 2M people so i would guess that you don't have that many people in an area (let's say 30 miles) around your casino which means that you don't have that many potential customers like in states with a higher population density. In the end the market will regulate that by itself if 1 M for a license is too much then no one will buy it.

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Quote from: Yaunfitda on November 16, 2021, 04:49:43 AM

I doubt that there is such a thing that is too expensive for casino's even the license fee.

These casino's have a lot of investors, or sometime it's a consortium wherein they really have a lot of money to begin with. They can afford to build world class billion dollars casino in short amount of time and then started to get what they've spend and profit in the next coming years. 20 years? I think that will be enough for them to really cover everything and then some.

The gambling licensure is too expensive yet every casino site could recover from it in just a short period. It's normal to pay for it since that's the part of putting up a huge business like a casino and having a license is really an advantage since it creates a good foundation of trust especially for users.

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Quote from: molsewid on November 17, 2021, 05:46:05 AM

Quote from: michellee on November 16, 2021, 10:30:47 PM

Gambling businesses can earn a lot of money from the gamblers, so if the license seems too expensive, that does not mean the casino can not pay that license. They can use some percentage of their revenue to have a license and I think they will not have a problem paying that amount because as long as they will not get a problem while running their business, that is still worth it for them. The casino owner already calculated how much their expenses were before they created their casino so they know how much money they should prepare to run the gambling business.

Even let's say that license of a gambling business ranges from high value they don't have any other choice than signing the agreement because having a license to operate was one of the requirement for a gambling business to operate legally and could attract more loyal gamblers in their site or establishments. Also, a gambling business could for sure can cover up the expenses for the renewal of their permit to operate from the revenue because we all know that gambling business are earning well from gamblers, and to think that even in the midst of pandemic those gambling sites manage to operate online so I think the management of gambling casinos already planned it accordingly.

Or the casino has a chance to move their business from that city and search for other cities that can be more friendly. The casino has that option, but they also hope that the license fee will not be too high for their business and they can ask for a reduction to get the license.

The casino will try to have a license as a requirement to open their business in that city and I believe that a license is not a big deal for them because they can cover the fee from the revenue. The online casino seems to attract the casino owner to expand their business through the internet because they realize that if their business becomes an online casino, that can invite more gamblers from many countries to become their members. That will be more benefits for them.

Doell

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that's all depends on the casino capital and income maybe for casino that have a small income they will think again about taking a license ,but for a casino that is really big it's only a day the profit can even be an hour maybe if many people lose ! actually the picture you are referring to is't very expensive in the case of big casino for example curacao 40K x 12 month x 20 years = 9.600.000 us dollar !

AicecreaME

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Well, 1 million for a 20 years gambling license is no big deal for a casino owner, because he could make even more than that in 20 years of his gambling business. The only risk their is if the casino he is going to start will not going to be successful, then the license price would be indeed expensive and it will be devastating for any casino owner if their business will failed. Take note about the taxes you're going to pay per year that will cost you a lot as well.

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Quote from: fiulpro on November 16, 2021, 02:38:54 AM

Apparently in Nebraska if you would go according to the new reforms that might be coming forth, the casinos might have to pay 1 million to issue them a license that would work for 20 years.

I guess the amount is too high because we never know if the gambling economy will continue to be profitable in the future.

Paying $1 million for the license in 20 years does not also guarantee that a gambling operator will continue to operate for 20 years because if they broke the law and the license might cease, and I don't think they'll refund the amount of the period that has not been consumed yet.

Those who like to operate in this place must probably be a big business and I think there's less competition in the area due to high license fee.

molsewid

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Quote from: michellee on November 16, 2021, 10:30:47 PM

Gambling businesses can earn a lot of money from the gamblers, so if the license seems too expensive, that does not mean the casino can not pay that license. They can use some percentage of their revenue to have a license and I think they will not have a problem paying that amount because as long as they will not get a problem while running their business, that is still worth it for them. The casino owner already calculated how much their expenses were before they created their casino so they know how much money they should prepare to run the gambling business.

Even let's say that license of a gambling business ranges from high value they don't have any other choice than signing the agreement because having a license to operate was one of the requirement for a gambling business to operate legally and could attract more loyal gamblers in their site or establishments. Also, a gambling business could for sure can cover up the expenses for the renewal of their permit to operate from the revenue because we all know that gambling business are earning well from gamblers, and to think that even in the midst of pandemic those gambling sites manage to operate online so I think the management of gambling casinos already planned it accordingly.

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This is a very interesting topic that I never thought of before. I never knew that there could be casinos in Nebraska but it makes sense.!!and This is to ensure that there are some kind of regulations that the casinos would need to abide by. The money would go towards services like some kind of childcare, transportation, and more. I'm not sure if these new changes will help with the state's budget or fighting poverty rates but I hope nebraska will have a big say in what happens.!!!
It's interesting to see how different states are coming up with new reforms when they are losing money. A few years ago I remember when all casinos were illegal in the US and now it seems like they can be legal in most states. It's amazing to see how these changes happen at the state level since the federal government has been pretty strict on things that they allow or don't allow.

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1 million for a casino license sounds a lot compared to the cheap licences from small tax havens. The thing with licences is that they are usually in relation to the potential income the casinos can expect when it comes to larger countries like the USA. Supply and demand plays a big role for the cost of the license. I don't think Nebraska is a big gambling market, usually people go to Las Vegas or Atlanta for gambling. So opening up a new casino can attract a lot of local people who didn't have the chance before to go gamble close to their home. For a successful casino 1 million is not so much. A few high rollers could generate that income alone.

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Quote from: xSkylarx on November 16, 2021, 09:39:04 PM

Quote from: Vaskiy on November 16, 2021, 04:51:04 PM

If you go through the average revenue of a casino it won't look like a big money being spend for licensing. On an average a casino earns minimum of $72 million a year. How far this is true, I'm not sure about it. However if that's true mere $1 million doesn't look like a big money. Same time there are casinos that have gone bankruptcy, but those are very rare.

Agreed, and if you see a lot of casinos out there, it means they are able to pay the licensing fee, which I believe was a small amount of money to them because they are making a lot of money. If you are starting a business, you should first determine whether you can recoup your expenses while also making a profit, because it is pointless to start a business only to lose money. $1 million is significant to us (small people) because we do not earn that much money, but to them it is just a small money.

Gambling businesses can earn a lot of money from the gamblers, so if the license seems too expensive, that does not mean the casino can not pay that license. They can use some percentage of their revenue to have a license and I think they will not have a problem paying that amount because as long as they will not get a problem while running their business, that is still worth it for them. The casino owner already calculated how much their expenses were before they created their casino so they know how much money they should prepare to run the gambling business.

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Not that harsh if you take into consideration that the casino license will be valid for twenty years. That's a long period of time. $1,000,000 for a license payment for 20 years, that's actually a little cheap at just $50,000 per year. If you want to break it down a little further, you will only be averaging a little more than $4,000 a month. That's not that bad knowing that a casino is a large money-making business. It is only big as a one time payment but if you break it down, it is not really.

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Quote from: Vaskiy on November 16, 2021, 04:51:04 PM

If you go through the average revenue of a casino it won't look like a big money being spend for licensing. On an average a casino earns minimum of $72 million a year. How far this is true, I'm not sure about it. However if that's true mere $1 million doesn't look like a big money. Same time there are casinos that have gone bankruptcy, but those are very rare.

Agreed, and if you see a lot of casinos out there, it means they are able to pay the licensing fee, which I believe was a small amount of money to them because they are making a lot of money. If you are starting a business, you should first determine whether you can recoup your expenses while also making a profit, because it is pointless to start a business only to lose money. $1 million is significant to us (small people) because we do not earn that much money, but to them it is just a small money.

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I'm not into this subject but it is interesting to know how much they're paying for the licenses that they need to operate. The most common license is from Curacao and afaik, it's the easiest license to get for the new casinos. I think that most casinos won't pay a lumpsum for their license as they're also weighing things such as their operational cost and expenses throughout the years. They also have to consider how long they're going to operate since we've seen too many casinos closing in despite they've been operating for years so, it's a good basis to pay yearly fee or renewal.

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Ugh, when can governments actually start to appreciate that they need to regulate casinos in a positive way?

This is the opposite of that.

You're essentially establishing a monopoly in the operation of casinos because probably only one or two casinos can afford the basic licensing fees. Which is exactly what we don't want in terms of competition.

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Quote from: fiulpro on November 16, 2021, 02:38:54 AM

What do you think might be the cost of a Casino license? Even if you are taking it for 20 years, I do not think you ever thought it would be 1 million!!

Apparently in Nebraska if you would go according to the new reforms that might be coming forth, the casinos might have to pay 1 million to issue them a license that would work for 20 years.

Other than that there would be other regulations like :
1. People won't be allowed to smoke
2. Only the security is allowed to carry the firearms

Public hearing would be on 17th December but asking the casinos to pay all of this fee upfront might be a bit too harsh.

What do you think ?

Let me add an image from google highlighting the normal license fee for other states and regions

It's easy to think that this is a huge sum (and it is for most individuals around the world) but for a casino it really is peanuts. The state probably launched it in this way to allow politicians to sell it (if you want to facilitate gambling, we'll make you pay big!) however in actuality it is very similar over the term of the license to other places. In fact it does show some more intelligent thinking by the officials in charge because it forces a gambling operation to really commit big - it'll make more sense for them to invest in fancy new casinos instead of renting out some pre-existing buildings, because they'll be here for a generation at least.

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Quote from: acroman08 on November 16, 2021, 05:53:23 AM

Quote from: fiulpro on November 16, 2021, 02:38:54 AM

-snip

If they are worried about winding up with too many casinos, then why not just limit how many can operate in their state?

I think putting up a hefty $1M as fee, then the State thinks that it is a deterrent already and maybe some casino's will look somewhere else wherein it in cheap.

Quote from: acroman08 on November 16, 2021, 05:53:23 AM

$1M is not that bad if the validity is 20 years. it only looks bad since the casino owner would have to pay $1M upfront. that being said, I am curious whether they would be issuing a license that is less than 20 years and how much does it cost.

True, in paper it seems to be very high fees for casinos, but for 20 years they can manage it and it will be sustainable and profitable.

And maybe this is the way Nebraska can regulate casinos in their state. So let's see how this state propose legislation will do.

timerland

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Oh boy, that is a steep price.

Having that sort of restrictive practice on licensing just makes sure that there will never be positive regulation.

It's the complete opposite of what you want casinos to do. You want them to be able to afford the license so that you can actively exert oversight, and make sure that the clients are treated fairly. Not deter them from getting a license.

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Quote from: samcrypto on November 16, 2021, 04:52:49 PM

Paying in advance without any guarantee that you’ll get your license later on is too risky for the casinos, and that’s too expensive for a start up casinos who don’t even have much capital maybe fees should depend on the size of casinos.

Anyway, fees are expensive so this is why the house have to always win, they can’t afford to lose money especially on that kind of fees, they’ll get this to the players in due time.

If the casino is willing to pay for this amount to get their license, then, I believe, they already do their math how to get it back.
Because if they are not so sure about their business, then they can always start small and not pay the upfront fee.
But if they have good financial backing and they already did their financial assessments, that amount is not too big for them.
Starting physical casinos requires huge amount of money, this is why the amount to get license, for them should not be a big deal.
It may be different when it comes to online casinos, as a lot are starting with small bankroll.

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Quote from: Vaskiy on November 16, 2021, 04:51:04 PM

If you go through the average revenue of a casino it won't look like a big money being spend for licensing. On an average a casino earns minimum of $72 million a year. How far this is true, I'm not sure about it. However if that's true mere $1 million doesn't look like a big money. Same time there are casinos that have gone bankruptcy, but those are very rare.

Youre right!

This is just a small amount if you do look at on bigger picture or just considering on how big casinos do make out some money or profits.So I don't really see it as a major or big problem by casinos or even if you are just new we would say but you cant build a business like this if you don't have enough funding
or you aren't aware about these expenses.

Small amount for them to pay on yearly basis which it is really just peanuts.

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Paying in advance without any guarantee that you’ll get your license later on is too risky for the casinos, and that’s too expensive for a start up casinos who don’t even have much capital maybe fees should depend on the size of casinos.

Anyway, fees are expensive so this is why the house have to always win, they can’t afford to lose money especially on that kind of fees, they’ll get this to the players in due time.

Vaskiy

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If you go through the average revenue of a casino it won't look like a big money being spend for licensing. On an average a casino earns minimum of $72 million a year. How far this is true, I'm not sure about it. However if that's true mere $1 million doesn't look like a big money. Same time there are casinos that have gone bankruptcy, but those are very rare.

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Quote from: hello_good_sir on November 16, 2021, 04:15:41 PM

I honestly wouldn't be surprised that $1 million is on the lower end of the fee spectrum for licenses in the US.

Worse yet, a lot of jurisdictions don't even grant gambling licenses regardless of how much money they get offered.

That's just the harsh reality of things, and probably encourages underground gambling too.

Looking at the cost above showed then license cost plus annual fees plus that short term duration of effect is something bullshit on my opinion.

They are really taking advantage with such industry into those country which did really allow gambling businesses and its true that there are places on the world which does prohibit out despite of the opportunity that it could give when it comes to revenue.

Same as you presumed then i wont be surprised about 1M price of getting a license in near future.

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I honestly wouldn't be surprised that $1 million is on the lower end of the fee spectrum for licenses in the US.

Worse yet, a lot of jurisdictions don't even grant gambling licenses regardless of how much money they get offered.

That's just the harsh reality of things, and probably encourages underground gambling too.

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Quote from: Wexnident on November 16, 2021, 05:26:49 AM

It shouldn't be that bad I think, but upfront payment? That's kinda odd. Maybe pay half then split the rest in a monthly payment for a year instead? It'd probably be easier for the casino since in the price in general IS higher than other casinos after all. Though ig if it was an old-time casino I'd reckon it wouldn't be hard for the casino to bear the costs upfront, but hey, it'd still be helpful for developing the casino itself instead of spending it for the license at the start no?

Yes, it's a little surprising that this amount has to be paid in advance ...

Maybe there is a corruption component in this proposal? Hopefully it isn't.

In general, it is normal for a classic investor when you first invest in a project and then gradually make a profit. The prepayment is likely to insure the investor against risks associated with a change in municipal government and unexpected termination of the contract.

Revoking a license is not very pleasant.

That is why an advance payment is made (20 years in advance). People are inherently gambling. The casino is always a profitable business.

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Quote from: fiulpro on November 16, 2021, 02:38:54 AM

-snip

If they are worried about winding up with too many casinos, then why not just limit how many can operate in their state?

$1M is not that bad if the validity is 20 years. it only looks bad since the casino owner would have to pay $1M upfront. that being said, I am curious whether they would be issuing a license that is less than 20 years and how much does it cost.

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It shouldn't be that bad I think, but upfront payment? That's kinda odd. Maybe pay half then split the rest in a monthly payment for a year instead? It'd probably be easier for the casino since in the price in general IS higher than other casinos after all. Though ig if it was an old-time casino I'd reckon it wouldn't be hard for the casino to bear the costs upfront, but hey, it'd still be helpful for developing the casino itself instead of spending it for the license at the start no?

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I doubt that there is such a thing that is too expensive for casino's even the license fee.

These casino's have a lot of investors, or sometime it's a consortium wherein they really have a lot of money to begin with. They can afford to build world class billion dollars casino in short amount of time and then started to get what they've spend and profit in the next coming years. 20 years? I think that will be enough for them to really cover everything and then some.

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If the casino can pay half of the total fee upfront or split it into many periods, I think the casino will not have a problem since they can run their business and collect the money to pay the fee. Maybe the regulations need to be reduced or modified so the casino will not feel difficult to follow the rules.

If the rules are very strict for the casino and the visitors, I am afraid that many casinos will not open their business in that area and the casino owner will find other places to run their business. It needs more discussion from the casino owner and the authority because that is related to them.

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It may look like it is a big one time fee but actually that is a ridiculous amount for a casino in Nebraska.The amount if it comes forth it means 50.000 dollars a year which any simple casino can afford it.If only a big whale,a player that plays huge amounts of money loses big it means the casino already recovered their license fee for that year,keep in mind though that in a casino usually comes much more than just one whale player,so in the end it is not an expensive fee at all.

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Isn't this for the security of the racetrack business which they are allowing businessmen to put up a casino within the vicinity of this race track mentioned n the article?

The Nebraska Racing and Gaming Commission will reassure that there will be gamblers that will go inside thier casino since they are providing a race track venue. This is close to guaranteeing the casino businesses to prosper but I have no idea about Nebraska situation though, are they going to make this place a Las Vegas kind?

You have to make sure you are up to it for 20 years otherwise quit now. Cheesy

YOSHIE

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I try to study and see one source related to license fees and gambling taxes.
As said below.

https://gaming.nv.gov/index.aspx?page=94

Quote

SPECIAL NOTICE

In addition to State administered gaming license fees and taxes, various other license fees and taxes may be required by the Federal Government and local governmental units throughout Nevada. Applicants for gaming licenses and existing gaming licensees should contact these other governmental units for information regarding the license fees and tax rates administered by them. Inquiries concerning reporting requirements should be directed to the Tax & License Division of the Nevada Gaming Control Board.

In the quote above, I conclude that the licensing fee for each type of gambling and the structure of the gambling site, the fee depends on the rules of the particular country in implementing it, different countries have different gambling license fees, there are the cheapest and up to the highest as you said, but it all depends on how many years they take, for example: 1-20 years, just multiply the year.

As you said, probably among the casinos operating in Nebraska the most expensive licensing fees, I've also seen online casinos in the United States, not the middle part, the other part that caters to the casino, the license fee is around $30,000/5 year or $70,000/7 year, which is cheaply the license renewal fee is around $2800/year.

Conclusion: the license fee in Nebraska if it's $1 million, in 20 years, that means/year the casinos there have to pay a license fee of around $50,000/year, not much different from other casinos in other parts of America.

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What do you think might be the cost of a Casino license? Even if you are taking it for 20 years, I do not think you ever thought it would be 1 million!!

Apparently in Nebraska if you would go according to the new reforms that might be coming forth, the casinos might have to pay 1 million to issue them a license that would work for 20 years.

Other than that there would be other regulations like :
1. People won't be allowed to smoke
2. Only the security is allowed to carry the firearms

Public hearing would be on 17th December but asking the casinos to pay all of this fee upfront might be a bit too harsh.

What do you think ?

source

Let me add an image from google highlighting the normal license fee for other states and regions

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Topic: Nebraska, Gambling might be too expensive for casinos (Read 270 times)